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Is the US Government blackmailing its own states?

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 
<a href="http://www.jsonline.com/news/State/apr02/37139.asp" target="_blank">You bet it is!</a>

This is just grand; WI (and many other states around the country) is being forced to lower its state laws on BAC by the US gov't withholding money from the Great Federal Teat.

Quote:
Wisconsin has lost $15 million in federal highway funds because of its refusal to lower its legal standard for drunken driving, and the state could lose an additional $126.8 million by 2008 if it doesn't comply, a new report shows.

I am painfully aware we've got to do everything we can to keep our federal money," said Rep. Jeff Stone (R-Greenfield), chairman of the Assembly Transportation Committee. He does not support lowering the legal standard from a blood-alcohol level of 0.10 to 0.08 for first-time offenders

Scott Stenger, lobbyist for the Tavern League of Wisconsin, agrees that money will increasingly be an issue as Wisconsin moves closer to the September 2003 deadline set by the federal government for states to enact a 0.08 law or lose highway funding.

"That clearly will be an issue with the state budget," said Stenger, whose organization strongly opposes the lower standard. "It's because of the blackmail approach the feds have taken."

The last time legislators considered a bill mandating a blood-alcohol level of 0.08 for first-time offenders was in June 1997, when a Senate committee sent such a measure to the Joint Finance Committee, where the bill died.

Wisconsin currently has five different standards determining when an operator of a vehicle is intoxicated:

0.10 for first and second offenses.
0.08 for third offenses.
0.02 for fourth and subsequent offenses.
0.04 for operators of commercial motor vehicles.
Absolute sobriety for drivers under age 21.

Emerson said the current law is too complicated. "Let's just simplify things and make it 0.08 period. I think it's reached the level of absurdity," she said, noting that absolute sobriety should remain the standard for drivers under 21.

The median blood-alcohol level for Wisconsin drivers involved in traffic fatalities is 0.17, Emerson said.

"So what difference does it make if it's 0.10 or 0.08 when people are getting in their cars and driving with levels of 0.17?" she said.

"All people are impaired to some degree at 0.08."

The Legislature's Stone said the state's new multi-tiered drunken-driving law is aimed at repeat offenders. He does not think the Legislature should enact a 0.08 law for first-time offenders until statistics show how the new law works.


"I'm not anxious to make that change, because I think we may have something to offer the rest of the country in terms of targeting repeat offenders with high blood alcohol levels," he said.

"Some of the states with 0.08 have worse (drunken-driver accident) records than we have. To target at 0.08, I don't know if it's going to make our highways safer."
Of course, this is not the first time that the feds have trampled a states' rights to administer its own citizens within its own borders. They pulled the same stunt with the national 21 drinking age; they'll do it again when some new 'problem' strikes their fancy.

But really, this is all a result of a bunch of bored housewives with a bully pulpit known as MADD - an organization that no sane politician dares stand up to, lest he be accused of not caring about the safety of his constituents by being 'for' drunk driving.

To quote Douglas Barr in his excellent book Drink: A Social History of America on the .08 limit:

Quote:
If reducing the maximum permitted BAC to .08 does significantly reduce deaths in drunk driving accidents, then logically the states with .08 limits should have the lowest rates of alcohol-related fatalities in the country. But they do not. Of the ten (at the time) states with the lowest rates, only two, Utah and New Hampshire, have adopted the .08 limit. New Mexico has the highest rate of alcohol-related deaths despite it .08 limit.

Reducing the maximum permitted BAC does not work because it does nothing to affect the vast majority of the drivers that are causing the problem. According to data from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, the average BAC among fatally injured drinking drivers is 0.18, approximately double the legal limit. Nearly two thirds of what the NHTSA describes as alcohol-related fatalities involve drivers with a BAC of 0.14 and above. Reducing the limit will not stop people who drive after consuming large amounts of alcohol from continuing to do so.
Lowering the BAC to .08 also stretches police resources more thinly; police may catch more 'drunk' (ever done one of those breathalyzer machines? .08 is ~3 beers!) drivers, but they are less likely to get caught - costing the entire drunk driving campaign credibility.

Even Candy Lightner, the founder of MADD, has argued against lowering the threshold - "If we really want to save lives, let's go after the most dangerous drivers on the road; putting our trust in new laws and regulations that attack the tip of the iceberg will not make our highways safer."

So she's been branded a traitor by the very group she helped found.

But MADD has all but succeeded in getting its precious .2%; so what next? Are they going to press the Federal government for a national 'absolute sobriety' law?

I am tempted to write my governor and state reps and tell them to "Just say no" to the Federal teat; only by weaning our state from the "free" money the US government gives out can we become a separate and distinct entity, doing what those who know our citizens best decide is for the greater good of our state.
post #2 of 12
I'm glad someone else can see MADD for what they really are. Talk about a powerful position. They can advocate and push through legislation on whatever infringment of freedoms they want, and no politician can say a damn word about them. Who wants to be seen as opposing MOTHERS who hate drunk drivers?!?!?
post #3 of 12
Bah! I don't wan't get into American politics.

post #4 of 12
The Federal Government has been using the Highway money as leverage for decades. I recall the Carter Administration using the threat of highway funds being cut if the States didn't comply with the 55mph speed limit, supposedly the balm to soothe the savage oil crisis.

Fuel usage went up, highway fatalities went up, speed limits eventually went up.

Oh, I met Candy Lightner way back in the late 70's -her case was right here in Sacramento. She went through a lot with the death of her daughter(nobody should lose a child to a drunk driver who was unlicensed and still on probation if I remember correctly...I'd kill the fucker personally if it were my child).

But she did eventually turn fairly rabid to the point where the organization she founded -MADD- basically fired her.
post #5 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Kronos:


Oh, I met Candy Lightner way back in the late 70's -her case was right here in Sacramento. She went through a lot with the death of her daughter(nobody should lose a child to a drunk driver who was unlicensed and still on probation if I remember correctly...I'd kill the fucker personally if it were my child).

But she did eventually turn fairly rabid to the point where the organization she founded -MADD- basically fired her.
I have no argument with the original goals of MADD - their influence REALLY kickstarted the movement against drinking and driving, which is a very good thing; the problem is that now they've become one of those wonderful organizations whose purpose in existing is to keep itself in existence; thus, gaining tremendous awareness of the drunk driving problem and a national .10 BAC level are no longer enough, as that would mean that MADD had achieved its goals and is now irrelevant; no organization wishes to be faced with irrelevance, thus the crusade for .08, which if it is really such a panacea to drunk driving, should really have been the standard pursued in the first place.
post #6 of 12
Well-stated.
post #7 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
jabbadonut
Personally, I don't care if Wisconsin has a legal limit of .08, .10 or 100.0. I do not think the U.S. government can be considered as "black-mailing" them by denying federal highway funds. Those funds are collected in part from MY taxes, and I want them (any of my actual money that may be used for roads) to help keep the roads nice in MY state. If the Feds decide that there are certain criteria that must be met by any state to qualify for FEDERAL funds, then it is up to that state to meet that criteria. If they can't or won't, that's their fault, not the Federal Government. I'm sorry, but Wisconsin, or any other state, is not automatically entitled to federal funds for ANYTHING.

The Feds have the absolute right to dictate to any state when it comes to using federal tax dollars.
Yeah, well Wisconsin ranks 49th in the amount of Federal funding received, as opposed to Cali's generous #1 ranking (mainly due to the fact that LA is basically situated in the WORST spot to ever put a city and the REST of the US has to continually bail Californians out from wildfires, mudslides, earthquakes, etc), so you aren't really in any position to be giving any other state lip about NOT getting federal funds. Cali would be a ghost state if not for continuous federal "emergency relief."

And as a conservative, you should really be in line with either eliminating federal meddling in states' business, or eliminating federal upkeep of roads in general.
post #8 of 12
Yeah, you tell'em Chavez!!

Texas was done the same exact way. But correct me if I am wrong here but when the Federal Government withholds these funds it doesn't just hurt that state it also hurts the country in the long run.

For example: State Highway 'A' intersects or in some cases becomes Interstate '20' these are the same roads or that your food travels on. The same roads that your clothes come on. I think you get the picture. It has been said that highways and roads are the "blood vanes" of this country.

That said to have the Federal Government come in say change a law or you wont get aid that not only benefits you be I too, is just plain stupid.

That is like saying to your child, "If you don't eat this, I wont send you to college."

It my sound childish but so is the Government in this.
post #9 of 12
"And as a conservative, you should really be in line with either eliminating federal meddling in states' business, or eliminating federal upkeep of roads in general."

I have seen similar posts to this on the board and they really frighten me. "As a conservative you should ______" is completely ridiculous. I think when someone says they are conservative or liberal they mean they lean a bit more to the right or left. I dont think it means they follow every policy dictated by the majority of either side. Let Jabba think what he thinks, he can still call himself a conservative and disagree with specific political issues.
post #10 of 12
Well, I can't speak for Chavez, but most conservative's I met (some who I call friends) are these chest beating "state rights" "Rush is right"; "You damn liberals...." and so on.

So like most, it is assumed that you all think alike.

So Ned Fats you can see were this line of reasoning can come in.
post #11 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Ned Fats:


I have seen similar posts to this on the board and they really frighten me. "As a conservative you should ______" is completely ridiculous. I think when someone says they are conservative or liberal they mean they lean a bit more to the right or left. I dont think it means they follow every policy dictated by the majority of either side. Let Jabba think what he thinks, he can still call himself a conservative and disagree with specific political issues.
Ok, fine; then people who lean to the right should probably agree to cease lumping all "liberals" into the same basket - which ain't gonna happen, as they have to blame the country's woes on SOMEBODY. As long as it isn't the "cut tax and spend" GOP.

"Conservative" used to mean "in favor of small gov't and low taxes"; it's now become a moral issue that has little to do with finances, IMO. And that bugs me. My friends always try to convince me that I'm a conservative, and they may be right, but I refuse to vote for the GOP when they suck the religious right's dick to grab and hold office.
post #12 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
jabbadonut:
So, we're no. 1 in Federal funds received? WOOHOOO!!!
Yep, mostly due to subsidizing rich homeowners who build and rebuild in wildfire- and mudslide-prone areas, and cleaning up the messes from earthquakes, and keeping Cali's insane and poorly planned housing and population growth supplied with water.

So if you support socialism such as this, you really oughta stop bitching about "liberal spending" in the very least.
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