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bye bye Dutch right winger

post #1 of 62
Thread Starter 
What a shame.

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (CNN) -- Maverick Dutch right-wing politician Pim Fortuyn has been shot and critically wounded.

Fortuyn was shot in the head three times as he was going to a Dutch national radio station in Hilversum, the Associated Press reported.

A spokesman for Fortuyn's Leefbaar Nederland (Livable Netherlands) said he was not expected to survive the attack.

No information was immediately available about the assailant or whether the attacker was arrested.

Dutch television said Fortuyn, who was notorious for his anti-immigration and anti-Islamic views, was shot at close range.

"I saw Pim Fortuyn lying on the ground with a bullet wound in his head," said television reporter Dave Abspoel.

Fortuyn's rise mirrors a right-wing resurgence in several European countries, lately highlighted by the anti-immigrant Jean Marie Le Pen's surprise showing in the first round of French presidential elections. He was soundly defeated in Sunday's run-off vote by incumbent Jacques Chirac.

Fortuyn's platform seemed out of place in the Netherlands, which has a reputation for liberalism.

It was the first country to legalise gay marriages, regulate prostitution, approve and control euthanasia, and tolerate the over-the-counter sale of marijuana in hundreds of "coffee shops."

Though tolerant of such subcultures, Fortuyn's popularity has exposed a deep vein of suspicion of immigrants in Europe's most densely populated country, about two million of whose 16 million people are not native Dutch. About 800,000 are Muslims.

He was founder of Leefbaar Nederland, which stunned the Netherlands in March when it won 35 percent of the vote for city council seats in Rotterdam, the second-largest city, The Associated Press reports.

Fortuyn advocates a ban on immigration and has criticised Islam as a "backward culture."

Although he no longer leads the party, polls project that it could win 24 seats in the 150-member parliament in May 15 national elections.
post #2 of 62
Hate to advoacte death or shooting...
post #3 of 62
Quote:
Tony Ryan:
Hate to advoacte death or shooting...
Then don't.
post #4 of 62
This guy should have been defeated in the polls, not with a bullet. It is a shame. This Dutch guy should have had the chance to meet the same fate as Le Pen.
post #5 of 62
I didn't.

The guy was an ass, and I am glad he is gone, course death isn't the best way to take care of it.

But it happened and I can't say I feel to bad about it.

post #6 of 62
There is no reason to celebrate this man's murder.
post #7 of 62
Thread Starter 
Who's celebrating?

Doesn't mean I feel bad either.
post #8 of 62
I'm not celebrating it, he should of been defeated instead of killed. I just don't feel bad.
post #9 of 62
Just think its kind of fucked to shrug when people pay the ferryman. My hang-up, I guess. Plus, this is par for the course on the conservative vs. liberal bullshit that's been taking place on these boards lately. Now were putting notches in our bed posts when someone from the opposite side takes a dirt nap? That to me is fucked. Like I said, my hang-up.
post #10 of 62
Thread Starter 
I think being a racist transcends right vs left debate. And his views on Islam make him that in my book.
post #11 of 62
Yeah, but no matter how you slice it, dev posting this does not transcend that "debate" - if we can even call it that at this point.

Too bad a person was murdered.
post #12 of 62
The man is only far-right by Dutch standards. He'd probably be a Democrat in the US of A.
post #13 of 62
Thread Starter 
OK, I don't understand - if I think it's no pity that a racist xenophobe politician who is riding the wave of right wing resurgance in Europe is killed - I shouldn't make my opinion known?
post #14 of 62
Hey, you're not Kirby! You tricked me, you bastard. And, dev. I'm certainly not trying to silence you. Say what you want, feel how you want. I just don't like seeing people get ended for their views, no matter how stupid and ignorant.
post #15 of 62
Thread Starter 
And I wouldn't end someone for their views.. but I don't always feel so bad about it when it does happen.
post #16 of 62
Well, there's the difference. I do feel bad when it happens.
post #17 of 62
Quote:
Adam Warren:
The man is only far-right by Dutch standards. He'd probably be a Democrat in the US of A.
Interestingly enough, I just read that Fortuyn is/was openly gay. A high profile gay political leader with a conservative bent. The Dutch definitely have their own thing going.
post #18 of 62
At least Kevin Matchstick is ethical and fair.
post #19 of 62
A life is a life no matter what.

This man appears to have done nothing wrong than have managed to piss off people and be on the wrong side at the time.

He died. His life ended and any chance for that to continue and perhaps change or become something else is over.

Ever heard of the sancitity of life?
post #20 of 62
Jabba, shining pinnacle of civilized behavior, delivers unto us a penetrating moral lesson.
post #21 of 62
Now Let's Roll.
post #22 of 62
Thread Starter 
Then I guess none of you believe in the assasination of foreign leaders?
post #23 of 62
Good call...

I bet Jabba thinks we need to kill Sadam, wow but I guess that's different
post #24 of 62
Quote:
I am really Devin:
Then I guess none of you believe in the assasination of foreign leaders?
Two different things.

We WERE talking about the murder of a life.

Now, we are talking about something that is not black and white and has many grey areas that IF we were to get into a discussion, it would turn ugly. Because there is no simple answer.
post #25 of 62
Do we know for a fact that this man was killed for his political stances? Any follow ups?
post #26 of 62
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Seahawk®:
Quote:
I am really Devin:
Then I guess none of you believe in the assasination of foreign leaders?
Two different things.

We WERE talking about the murder of a life.

Now, we are talking about something that is not black and white and has many grey areas that IF we were to get into a discussion, it would turn ugly. Because there is no simple answer.
How is killing a foreign leader NOT the murder of a life? Did they replace the Axis of Evil with robots?
post #27 of 62
This is typical. When a guy is no longer a useful idiot he gets whacked. After all, this guy wasn't gay enough to live because he held other views undesireable to whatever leftist whacko murdered him.

Once a person turns right they lose their sexual preference doesn't matter anymore.

Once a person turns right they lose their melanin.

Once a person turns right they are no longer useful...so whack 'em.
post #28 of 62
Quote:
Kronos:
This is typical. When a guy is no longer a useful idiot he gets whacked. After all, this guy wasn't gay enough to live because he held other views undesireable to whatever leftist whacko murdered him.

Once a person turns right they lose their sexual preference doesn't matter anymore.

Once a person turns right they lose their melanin.

Once a person turns right they are no longer useful...so whack 'em.
Oh, please. This is "typical?" How often are nationalist, gay, right-wing European politicians "wacked?"

Actually, how often are right-wing politicians of any kind "wacked?"

And, while I don't think it's cool to celebrate harm to anyone (Scott Stapp from Creed excluded), it seems pretty knee-jerk to leap to Fortuyn's defense based simply on the fact that he's right of center and anti-Islam.
post #29 of 62
Heh heh...just thought I'd stir it up a bit.

Yes, what I said was a bit non-sequitor regarding the word "typical", but the other statements have much truth attached to them.
post #30 of 62
And since I don't really know squat about this guy -except that people seem to be fairly pleased a right-winger is dead- I am not leapiong to defend him. Just pointing something out.

Yet somehow my point will be soon lost in a flurry of rhetoric and/or expletives.

It causes one to feel how one's own death by bullet would be received here on the CHUD messageboards...simply because one is of right-wing views.

post #31 of 62
Thread Starter 
yeah i'd be lost in mourning
post #32 of 62
Quote:
Kronos:
It causes one to feel how one's own death by bullet would be received here on the CHUD messageboards...simply because one is of right-wing views.
And are you saying there aren't right-wingers on the board who would react exactly the same way if, say, Bill or Hillary Clinton were killed?

Maybe you wouldn't be one of them, Kronos, but I have a feeling we'd see a few celebratory threads pop up.

As you yourself said in another thread, extreme activists of any sort are galling - I think this goes for those with extreme political views, in general.
post #33 of 62
I certainly wouldn't dance in the street if Kronos were taken out. I'd do nothing of the sort.
post #34 of 62
I admire some of you here for your ability to grasp Dutch politics so firmly. I wasn't aware that we had so many experts on what constitutes a "right winger" in Holland. Us stateside right wingers are obvious mental dwarves compared to the steel trap minds of the left who can make authorative statements about the politics of a nation that many would have a hard time locating on a map. Try digging a little deeper than what you read on the CNN website concerning this , and you might realize that *gasp* this entire story is riddled with the typical hyperbole that infects so many in the news biz....
post #35 of 62
Quote:
Call:
I admire some of you here for your ability to grasp Dutch politics so firmly. I wasn't aware that we had so many experts on what constitutes a "right winger" in Holland. Us stateside right wingers are obvious mental dwarves compared to the steel trap minds of the left who can make authorative statements about the politics of a nation that many would have a hard time locating on a map.
Well, no one really delved into Dutch politics here, Call. As I mentioned, the right appears to be a little different in Holland (high profile right-wing gay officials, etc.). Even Devin and Tony, who obviously are the most anti-Fortuyn (perhaps based just on the article, perhaps based on more - we don't know), never mentioned how much background they have on the man.

But it's interesting that you, as usual, have to make this some sort of intellectual competition between the left and right. Your bias and narrow-mindedness is becoming tiresome. Many of us here would probably not support this man's policies, but are engaging in intelligent debate about whether this sort of death is ever warranted, nonetheless (only if it's a left-winger, right, Call?). So can the left vs. right crap for once.
post #36 of 62
Quote:
The Crazy World of DaveB
]
Well, no one really delved into Dutch politics here, Call. As I mentioned, the right appears to be a little different in Holland (high profile right-wing gay officials, etc.). Even Devin and Tony, who obviously are the most anti-Fortuyn (perhaps based just on the article, perhaps based on more - we don't know), never mentioned how much background they have on the man.

But it's interesting that you, as usual, have to make this some sort of intellectual competition between the left and right. Your bias and narrow-mindedness is becoming tiresome. Many of us here would probably not support this man's policies, but are engaging in intelligent debate about whether this sort of death is ever warranted, nonetheless (only if it's a left-winger, right, Call?). So can the left vs. right crap for once.[/QB][/QUOTE]

Get over it. I'm not baiting people, but you seem intent on having you feelings hurt.
I've not said or done anything out of line or excessive in this thread or any other. You don't like what I say, fine, but don't tell me to can it. You can simply avoid reading my posts dave....
post #37 of 62
Quote:
Call:
I admire some of you here for your ability to grasp Dutch politics so firmly. I wasn't aware that we had so many experts on what constitutes a "right winger" in Holland. Us stateside right wingers are obvious mental dwarves compared to the steel trap minds of the left who can make authorative statements about the politics of a nation that many would have a hard time locating on a map. Try digging a little deeper than what you read on the CNN website concerning this , and you might realize that *gasp* this entire story is riddled with the typical hyperbole that infects so many in the news biz....
Ok, I'll bite. What hyperbole?
post #38 of 62
The man was killed solely on his beliefs?

That's bullshit, but I guess it's typical that you would reap excitement from it, Devin.
post #39 of 62
Thread Starter 
Hey Verbal, fuck you.
post #40 of 62
Yeah, that's what I thought.

post #41 of 62
Quote:
Call:

Get over it. I'm not baiting people,
Quote:
Call:
Us stateside right wingers are obvious mental dwarves compared to the steel trap minds of the left
Ummm... what, you didn't expect a response from us steel-trap-mind-enabled liberals for your exuberant praise?

Quote:
but you seem intent on having you feelings hurt.
Trust me, my feelings aren't hurt. I just think there are some interesting issues here that aren't so clearly left vs. right, yet you took a swipe at "the left," when "the left" doesn't seem to be making any more assumptions about the Dutch government than "the right" on this thread. As far as I can see, Devin and Tony were the only ones who chimed in that this might be a GOOD thing, and those guys don't necessarily represent where I'm coming from about half the time.

Quote:
I've not said or done anything out of line or excessive in this thread or any other. You don't like what I say, fine, but don't tell me to can it. You can simply avoid reading my posts dave....
Out of line, no. Repetitive? Maybe a little? Maybe the 'can it' line was harsh. My apologies. Didn't mean to hurt your feelings.
post #42 of 62
Devin is glad this guy was killed, who harmed no one, but talk about going in and shooting Osama Bin Laden in the head for killing 3000 people....
post #43 of 62
No one is glad he is killed.

But I ain't gonna feel iota or difference my body because of it.

As long as the raciest fucker is out of the race, I don't care.
post #44 of 62
Quote:
Tony Ryan:

As long as the raciest fucker is out of the race, I don't care.
What's wrong with being racy?
post #45 of 62
Oh, a lot.

Did you know he was also racist? I just found that out, crazy.
post #46 of 62
Yeah, I kind of assumed from the anti-immigrant stance. But, in general terms, a lot of our grandparents and great-grandparents are/were probably a little racist, as well, by our standards.

Doesn't mean I want to see any of them take a bullet. And, no, of course I wouldn't want to see them voted into office, either.

As Verbal alluded to, there are actions for which execution seems a lot more deserved than simply being a racist.
post #47 of 62
True, the best course of action was not killing.

But now that it is done, can't say I really give a shit.
post #48 of 62
Why is everything racism to some of you? You mean a person is thankfully dead because you dubbed him racist?
post #49 of 62
Problem is Kronos, he is a racist.

Everything is not racist to me, he is fucking racist.
post #50 of 62
Thread Starter 
kronos gets upset when people term anti-immigration bigots as racist because he is one. and being racist doesn't fit in with his world view because he wants to fuck black chicks.

i don't WANT anyone to die. but people do. every day. all the time.

i posted this because it is NEWS. the rise of the right in europe has been occuring for years, and this a part of it. will people rally behind the now martyred man? is this more indicative of the true feelings of the european public?

i shed no tears for the death of a man who believes the way he believes and seeks public office. he was looking to impose his beliefs on a nation, which to me is different than my racist grandfather who complains about darkies on TV.

i would never advocate his killing. but i won't get too worked up about it either.
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