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Crazy Bastard taking pictures

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
Come on, tell me this isn't an invasion of privacy...

Antiabortion Ambush Is putting photos of abortion-clinic patients on the Web an invasion of privacy? Or protected free speech?
by Sarah Schmidt March/April 2002

Last summer, a patient at the Hope Clinic for Women in Granite City, Illinois, was taken to a nearby hospital after complications from an abortion. Clinic staff tried to duck the half-dozen or so antiabortion activists assembled outside, but as they wheeled the patient to a waiting minivan, protester Daniel Michael called out to his wife, "They botched one!" and then rushed to take the woman's picture. Days later, a clinic staffer was shocked to discover that the woman's medical records and photo had been posted on a Web site called Missionaries to the Unborn.

Posting photos of women entering and exiting clinics is the radical antiabortion movement's latest step in an increasingly sophisticated campaign to use the Internet to target abortion clinics. "For a long time, the focus was on putting up information on doctors and personnel, but now we're seeing patient information, too," said William Lutz, communications director of the National Abortion and Reproductive Rights Action League. "The fringe and extremist antichoice groups and individuals are always pushing the envelope legally."

Antiabortion activists embraced the tactic last spring after a federal appeals court ruled that Neal Horsley's notorious Nuremberg Files Web site-which lists the names and addresses of abortion providers and shows their names crossed off after they have been killed-is protected by the First Amendment. Encouraged by the finding, last April Horsley started a site called AbortionCams that posts photos of "homicidal mothers" gathered from "photojournalists" who lurk outside clinics, taking photos of patients. Two months after AbortionCams debuted, the Missionaries to the Unborn site featured the Illinois patient's photo and medical records.

The Hope Clinic and its patient have now filed an invasion of privacy suit against the Michaels and the Web site's owner. But although an Illinois circuit court ordered that the site remove the photo and records until the case is decided, photos of dozens of other patients taken outside clinics in 23 states remain posted on AbortionCams.

The Illinois case is the first time these tactics have been challenged in court. Legal experts agree that posting the woman's medical records-copies of which were leaked to the Michaels from an anonymous source-falls within the established definition of invasion of privacy. But the use of the photo will be a much tougher call; in order for a court to rule that revealing personal information is an invasion of privacy, a plaintiff has to show that someone of ordinary sensibilities would be offended by the revelation. "Unfortunately, there is no current privacy law that specifically prohibits all of this," said Anita Allen, a visiting professor of law at Yale Law School who specializes in privacy issues.

Pro-choice groups such as the National Abortion Federation say they are watching the situation closely. Meanwhile, Horsley continues to expand AbortionCams: He has been adding photos from new clinics almost weekly and has announced a plan to create a cable television show using video footage from clinics.

He's also looking for more volunteers to help him. "Get out there to your local butchertorium with your zoom lenses and get those cameras rolling," he writes on his site. "Point and click."
post #2 of 25
What a dick
post #3 of 25
I'm not exactly pro-choice, but that guy is just an idiot.
post #4 of 25
oh well. I think all involved will live.....
Oh, wait.
post #5 of 25
What a dick
post #6 of 25
Invasion of privacy? Undoubtedly yes. If this guy has any pop-up ads on his site then he's guilty of even more than just that.
post #7 of 25
Just another galling tactic courtesy of the extreme Anti-Abortion activists.
post #8 of 25
Extreme activists of any sort are galling.
post #9 of 25
Quote:
Kronos:
Extreme activists of any sort are galling.
Too true.
post #10 of 25
Quote:
Kronos:
Extreme activists of any sort are galling.
'Tis why I qualified my statement.
post #11 of 25
Appearantly, some of us find Clarence quite Gauling ...

post #12 of 25
Damnable extremists like the American Revolutionaries!
post #13 of 25
Quote:
I am really Devin:
Damnable extremists like the American Revolutionaries!
Meaning?
post #14 of 25
Quote:
Seahawk®:
Quote:
I am really Devin:
Damnable extremists like the American Revolutionaries!
Meaning?
Meaning your nation is based on the actions of extremists, without whom we would be Canada.
post #15 of 25
Quote:
I am really Devin:
Meaning your nation is based on the actions of extremists, without whom we would be Canada.
Your nation as well.

But the extremists from today are VERY different from those of yesterday.
post #16 of 25
To begin with, those 18th Century extremists were educated, eloquent folk. When one of these abortion clinic bombing goofballs delivers with a tome worthy of, say, Thomas Jefferson, I'll retract this statement..... and shiver.

And, Adam, you're a funny guy; that's why I'm going to kill you last.

C'mon, it's a COMMANDO reference!
post #17 of 25
Quote:
jabbadonut:
While I do not agree with their tactics, I am still trying to get people to understand that aboritons, except to save the life of the mother, to abort a baby who may be born hideously mutated, or to abort as a result of a rape, are IMMORAL.
Not to get into this TOO much, but pro-choicers UNDERSTAND what you're saying, jabba. They just don't agree with your stance. It's not a question of intellect. Harping on the immorality of those who support the right of women to have an abortion is an ineffective argument, as we don't all share the same notions about morality.

There are plenty of hardliners who would find a woman aborting a fetus resulting from rape to be equally immoral, as a "life" would still be at stake, regardless of its origin.

The fact is that most of us pro-choicers have problems with the issue of making abortions illegal, because of the impact it might have on the privacy of women's bodies, as well as the safety issue regarding illegal abortions that might sprout up.

I don't think anyone would argue that abortion is a particularly pleasant or easy form of birth control and I think we all recognize there is some tricky moral gray area involved in the actual process. But, like I said, the legality's the issue.
post #18 of 25
Quote:
Clarence Beaks:
To begin with, those 18th Century extremists were educated, eloquent folk. When one of these abortion clinic bombing goofballs delivers with a tome worthy of, say, Thomas Jefferson, I'll retract this statement..... and shiver.

And, Adam, you're a funny guy; that's why I'm going to kill you last.

C'mon, it's a COMMANDO reference!
Believe me, I'm not standing up for these anti-choice motherfuckers. I'm just saying that the blanket dismissal of extreme activists is silly.
post #19 of 25
Quote:
jabbadonut:

I am still trying to get people to understand that aboritons, except to save the life of the mother, to abort a baby who may be born hideously mutated, or to abort as a result of a rape, are IMMORAL.
Very flexible morals you got there. Why are the 'rights' of a hideously mutated foetus more easily overridden? And who's to determine the degree of 'hideous mutation' necessary to make the mother's decision to abort morally acceptable, in your eyes?

Hey, don't blame me. You're the one who danced willingly into this morality minefield.

Personally, I think, whatever feelings we may hold on this issue, it's ultimately the mother's choice. Unless, that is, you'd have us all share a Christianity-based worldview, with all its attendant flaws and contradictions of experience--a goal even less feasible than the complete cessation of unwanted pregnancies.

post #20 of 25
You don't even have to think it - it is the mother's choice. And Jabba, your thief analogy doesn't work. Stealing is illegal. Abortion, however, is not.

post #21 of 25
You don't write the book.
post #22 of 25
Quote:
jabbadonut:
I do not think abortions should be illegal. I just believe that people need to be accountable for their behavior. I believe that abortions should be available to those who can prove a legitimate reason for having one. "I got drunk and got laid and got knocked up", ISN'T one in my book. Allowing people (women) to have an abortion for ANY reason of their choice doesn't address the root cause of the problem, which is having unprotected sex irresponsibly. Men are half of the equation. WE MEN need to be more accountable in this regard. If we get a woman pregnant who doesn't want to be pregnant, then maybe forcing US to raise the child would be justice.
How do you force a shithead lowlife to raise a kid? And would you even want to force a shithead lowlife to raise a kid?

I dont like abortion, I dont want anyone I know to go through one, but I think it should be woman's choice and not the government.
post #23 of 25
Quote:
jabbadonut:
I do not think abortions should be illegal. I just believe that people need to be accountable for their behavior.
Well, the government can't really hold people 'accountable' for their behavior if there's no law against it. And I don't think it's anyone else's business to hold someone 'accountable,' so that pretty much leaves us with personal responsibility. This, I think, is the point that most pro-choicers are trying to get across.
post #24 of 25
Quote:
I dont like abortion, I dont want anyone I know to go through one, but I think it should be woman's choice and not the government.
And it's not the taxpayers' duty to pay for them either.
post #25 of 25
Quote:
Kronos:
Quote:
I dont like abortion, I dont want anyone I know to go through one, but I think it should be woman's choice and not the government.
And it's not the taxpayers' duty to pay for them either.
Honest question, how does the taxpayer pay for them? I have heard of this before but am not familiar with the circumstances.
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