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Latest Democrat Extremism:

post #1 of 116
Thread Starter 
Latest Democrat Extremism: Guns Are Weapons of Mass Destruction

Wes Vernon, NewsMax.com

Wednesday, April 9, 2003

Defenders of the Second Amendment are on the lookout for a new Democrat campaign, already attempted in one state, to brand handguns as “weapons of mass destruction.”
Washington Gov. Gary Locke, picked by the Democrats to give their response President Bush’s State of the Union address just a couple of months ago, urged his state's Legislature to create six terror-related crimes that would bring guns under the legal definition of weapons of mass destruction (WMD).

Though the legislation offered by the governor and Attorney General Christine Gregoire did not mention specific weapons, Join Together Online, an anti-gun group, reported the legislation defined a weapon of mass destruction as a “device, object, or substance that a person intends to use to cause multiple human deaths.”

Here is how the Seattle Times on March 15 led its story on how the Legislature dealt with the issue: “An anti-terrorism bill has spurred a debate among lawmakers: Is a gun a weapon of mass destruction?”

In response to the governor, several Democrat lawmakers crafted House Bill 1210 to include firearms as weapons of mass destruction.

The state legislators cited last October’s sniper attacks in the District of Columbia area as their foot in the door to try to deprive law-abiding citizens of their Second Amendment rights. The snipers had ties to the Seattle area.

'I Tried to Push the Envelope'

“I tried to push the envelope on this bill to see if it would cover those guys if they had chosen to take out the rest of their aggression in Washington,” said Democrat state Rep. Jeannie Darneille. “And the answer, quite frankly, was no.”

Gun rights groups and Connecticut gun maker Colt Manufacturing said that defining firearms as weapons of mass destruction “is an attempt to regulate gun control” and would permit any gun to be considered a weapon of mass destruction.

To those who disingenuously argued that guns were not so defined in the legislation, Joe Waldron, a lobbyist for Gun Owner’s Action League and other gun rights groups, said it met “everybody else’s definition other than those in Olympia.”

According to an AP dispatch March 19, the Washington House of Representatives passed the anti-terrorism bill, but only after the section listing firearms as weapons of mass destruction was dropped. That change resulted from the insistence of more conservative lawmakers. Though it was a close call, some semblance of rationality ultimately prevailed.

After the 9/11 terrorist attacks, the federal government asked each state to enact some kind of anti-terrorism legislation. Of course, defining handguns as weapons of mass destruction was not something the Bush administration had in mind.

The recent events in the Evergreen State demonstrate the necessity of vigilance to make certain that thinly disguised gun control (by whatever name) does not spread to other state Capitols or to the U.S. Congress.

From 'Scoop' Jackson to 'Osama Mama' Murray

The stunt in Olympia also illustrates what has happened in Washington's state Democrat party, which decades ago gave the nation the level-headed wisdom of Henry “Scoop” Jackson, a U.S. senator for nearly 30 years.

By contrast, today’s Democrat party in that state gives us, in addition to leaders who try to exploit the war on terrorism to sabotage the Second Amendment, the likes of: Saddam pal Rep. "Baghdad" Jim McDermott, former Internet tycoon Sen. Maria "Can't Pay" Cantwell, and Sen. Patty “Osama Mama” Murray, who lied that the world’s leading terrorist was a great benefactor who did more for Afghanistanis than the United States did.

After Al Gore lost the last presidential election despite a strong economy and all the advantages of White House incumbency, some party moderates noted that his anti-gun extremism cost him such states as Tennessee, Arkansas and West Virginia. To stop losing elections, the party must mute its anti-choice extremism, the moderates cautioned.

It appears that leftist Democrats are once again eager to run roughshod over the centrists, no matter what the cost.
post #2 of 116
The statistic that says that a gun in the home is most likely to kill the owner makes me happy.
post #3 of 116
Sounds about right to me.

Guns were created for & are still designed to cause many deaths. Seems like common sense.
post #4 of 116
The law should have said that guns owned by BLACKS AND ARABS were WMD. Then the Republicans would have been fighting each other to vote yes first!
post #5 of 116
So those were the WMD that W was talkin' about.
post #6 of 116
Guns are the ultimate weapon of mass destruction. A single gun can kill the entire world population, with enough bullets.
post #7 of 116
Thread Starter 
[sarcasm /on]

yeah, you guys are right.

Might as well get rid of those pesky 1st and 4th ammendments too.

Those are just as much bullshit as the 2nd.

Right?

And the 13th? Wow, what's that crap about. Get rid of that trash.

[sarcasm /off]

post #8 of 116
What does that have to do with whether guns are weapons of mass destruction or not?

I forgot, only bad guys have WMDs. Thank God you destroyed all your nuclear weapons then.

post #9 of 116
This is reduction to absurdism. Hell, cars could be considered WMDs by this definition.

Oh, and do this, and suddenly our police forces will have the largest stockpile of WMDs in the world.

post #10 of 116
Quote:
Poxy Von Sinister:
This is reduction to absurdism. Hell, cars could be considered WMDs by this definition.
Wrong.

Cars are made for driving.

Guns are made for killing.
post #11 of 116
People do tend to forget that the sole purpose of guns is to kill.
post #12 of 116
Fine, but equating a nuclear bomb with a hand gun is a little ridiculous.
post #13 of 116
Quote:
Poxy Von Sinister:
Fine, but equating a nuclear bomb with a hand gun is a little ridiculous.
yes, but I think it's safe to say guns have killed more people than nuclear weapons. Even if you take into account that guns have been around longer, just looking at the numbers since 1945 are not going to be close.
post #14 of 116
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Guttenberg Fan Club:
Quote:
Poxy Von Sinister:
This is reduction to absurdism. Hell, cars could be considered WMDs by this definition.
Wrong.

Cars are made for driving.

Guns are made for killing.
Actually, no, guns are made for shooting bullets.

People are made for killing.

1) People can use cars as WMD's.
2) People can use guns as WMD.
3) People can use can openers as WMD's if they
find a large enough group of heavy sleepers.

So, let's outlaw people.

post #15 of 116
I think people are confusing "mass" with "accumulated."
post #16 of 116
Thread Starter 
Quote:
there is no mastronikolas:
People do tend to forget that the sole purpose of guns is to kill.
Actually, let's not forget, guns don't kill people, bullet's kill people. Gun's just make bullet's go really, really fast. I mean, you COULD just throw a bullet at someone, but it would lose something in the translation.
post #17 of 116
Quote:
Devin moves 4th dimensionally:
The law should have said that guns owned by BLACKS AND ARABS were WMD. Then the Republicans would have been fighting each other to vote yes first!
you are so sad. you ignore the topic that makes Democrats look bad and try and change the debate to what racists Rebublicans are. You are blind to any facts that don't go along with what you say.
Now the topic. I guess this Gov. wants to lose his next election. If this had passed how does he expect to collect these guns? Will they jail those who want to keep them? Will cops ask crooks who still have guns to please put it down as the crook stares down the barrell of the cops flashlight?
post #18 of 116
Quote:
Poxy Von Sinister:
I think people are confusing "mass" with "accumulated."
Guns were a lot less violent 100 years ago.

Still 23,000 people were killed or wounded in one day at Anteitam. That's pretty "mass".
post #19 of 116
Quote:
Grifter:
Actually, no, guns are made for shooting bullets.

People are made for killing.

1) People can use cars as WMD's.
2) People can use guns as WMD.
3) People can use can openers as WMD's if they
find a large enough group of heavy sleepers.

So, let's outlaw people.</strong>[/QUOTE]

Grifter, you can try and manipulate the story all you want, the FACT is that guns were created in order to kill people (with bullets).

People don't even have to be sleeping for you to use it on them.
post #20 of 116
Quote:
Guttenberg Fan Club:
Quote:
Poxy Von Sinister:
I think people are confusing "mass" with "accumulated."
Guns were a lot less violent 100 years ago.

Still 23,000 people were killed or wounded in one day at Anteitam. That's pretty "mass".
One bomb killing 300,000 is mass.

23,000 killed by thousands of guns and artillery pieces is not.

I just don't see the need to lump in the guy with a .45 in his house to protect his family with someone like the DC sniper.
post #21 of 116
Quote:
there is no mastronikolas:
Guns are the ultimate weapon of mass destruction. A single gun can kill the entire world population, with enough bullets.
so can a machete with a sharpening stone...
post #22 of 116
Quote:
Nelson (Sing Blue Silver):
Quote:
there is no mastronikolas:
Guns are the ultimate weapon of mass destruction. A single gun can kill the entire world population, with enough bullets.
so can a machete with a sharpening stone...
So can I with a ballpeen hammer and really quiet shoes....
post #23 of 116
Let's see you use that machete and ball peen hammer from fifty feet away, or while hiding in your trunk with a hole cut out of it...
post #24 of 116
Some people cling to their guns like it's their last vial of crack...

And anyone who thinks the legislation mentioned in the thread topic will actually PASS is a political idiot.
post #25 of 116
Quote:
Poxy Von Sinister:
Quote:
Guttenberg Fan Club:
Quote:
Poxy Von Sinister:
I think people are confusing "mass" with "accumulated."
Guns were a lot less violent 100 years ago.

Still 23,000 people were killed or wounded in one day at Anteitam. That's pretty "mass".
One bomb killing 300,000 is mass.

23,000 killed by thousands of guns and artillery pieces is not.

I just don't see the need to lump in the guy with a .45 in his house to protect his family with someone like the DC sniper.
I think we'd find that the definition of 'mass' as in 'mass killing', requires a lot less than 23,000 people.

post #26 of 116
Quote:
Jacob Singer:
Let's see you use that machete and ball peen hammer from fifty feet away
And then watch as about 50 cops show up and put me down before I get anywhere near the kind of numbers a nuke could out of nowhere without warning.
post #27 of 116
Guys, c'mon.Please raise your hand if you think there will ever be legislation passed that names guns as weapons of mass destruction.

If you want to point out every "latest Democratic extremism" we're gonna need a bigger board. Same thing for "latest Republican extremism" as well.

Sheesh.
post #28 of 116
So because some crazy idiot kills 10+ people with a sniper rifle we should outlaw guns?
I'm no big fan of guns, but they aren't going away and shouldn't. The law that they tried to pass was crazy.
post #29 of 116
Being against gun ownership is one thing, but this is pretty ridiculous.
post #30 of 116
What's interesting is that no one here has a really good idea what a WMD really is. If I'm not wrong some of the chemical weapons, like ricin, could probably only kill dozens.

And if you believe that guns are NOT for killing, if you buy that retarded bullets kill people thing, you have exposed yourself as a moron.
post #31 of 116
Are two people a crowd?
post #32 of 116
Quote:
Anyawatcher:
So because some crazy idiot kills 10+ people with a sniper rifle we should outlaw guns?
I'm no big fan of guns, but they aren't going away and shouldn't. The law that they tried to pass was crazy.
Good point Anyawatcher. Apparently only 10 people have ever been killed by guns. The whole anti-gun movement has its roots in the MD/VA/DC sniper incident.
post #33 of 116
Quote:
Anyawatcher:
So because some crazy idiot kills 10+ people with a sniper rifle we should outlaw guns?
Who here said that?

Quote:
I'm no big fan of guns, but they aren't going away and shouldn't. The law that they tried to pass was crazy.
You know, you're right. Guns do so much good in this country. We oughta give guns a medal, and a paid national holiday! Everyone should own a gun! They're neat!
post #34 of 116
Quote:
Devin moves 4th dimensionally:
What's interesting is that no one here has a really good idea what a WMD really is. If I'm not wrong some of the chemical weapons, like ricin, could probably only kill dozens.
That's one of the biggest problems with the way political debates occur these days.

If I walked into a room and said "weapon of mass distruction," 99% of the people there would havea general idea about what I meant; more than likely, a weapon that could take out an entire city in one move.

Some fool politician, though, sees the need to redefine perfectly good English words to mean what they want them to mean. "Weapon of Mass Distruction," then, would be anything that can kill multiple people.

Should we be concerned about handgun deaths? Yes. But is a handgun a weapon of mass distruction, based on the working definition held by nearly every human being? No.

The same thing is done on both sides, and it sickens me. I am tired of thing being labeled "terrorism" beause that is the new fall boy, and tired of seeing people use the deaths of innocent thousands for political gain.
post #35 of 116
Thread Starter 
Quote:
You know, you're right. Guns do so much good in this country. We oughta give guns a medal, and a paid national holiday! Everyone should own a gun! They're neat!
Welcome to the fold, my friend. Welcome.

post #36 of 116
Quote:
Devin moves 4th dimensionally:
What's interesting is that no one here has a really good idea what a WMD really is. If I'm not wrong some of the chemical weapons, like ricin, could probably only kill dozens.
I think that's a good point. For me, a WMD is something that can kill a LOT of people at once. I wouldn't even consider a grenade to be one.

I would cut slack in granting WMD properites to chemical and bilogical weapons though. It would be true that if you had a canister full of ricin or something like that and threw it into a crowd, you're not going to kill thousands. But if you could hook it up to a building's ventilation system and silently flood the place, you might be able to.
post #37 of 116
Quote:
Jacob Singer:
You know, you're right. Guns do so much good in this country. We oughta give guns a medal, and a paid national holiday! Everyone should own a gun! They're neat!
A shocking report recently released by the FBI indicates that, despite commonly-held misconceptions, criminals break laws. Many guns used in the commission of a crime are already illegal, but that did not stop criminals from laying hands on them.

I know you've heard it before, but when you outlaw guns, law-abiding citizens are disarmed, and law-breaking citizens are not. This shifts the balance of power in favor of the land's predators. Take a look at how crime has escallated in the UK since they started making it illegal to defend yourself. Compare crime rates in New York City and Texas. In the right hands, yes, guns do do a lot of good.
post #38 of 116
There is not one shred of evidence that guns deter criminals.
post #39 of 116
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Devin moves 4th dimensionally:
There is not one shred of evidence that guns deter criminals.
Perhaps not in your world. No. I would guess there isn't.

Is it pretty there? Sounds like a nice place.
post #40 of 116
OK, so present some evidence. Some evidence that isn't about a guy you know, but is real, statistical, provable evidence.
post #41 of 116
Thread Starter 
And while looking for, and posting that, I assume you will also post the hard facts supporting your argument?
post #42 of 116
What is my argument? What hard facts can I produce to show an absence of hard facts in your argument? Do you THINK?
post #43 of 116
There;s Grifter, bringing up the level of debate.

Quote:
Devin moves 4th dimensionally:
There is not one shred of evidence that guns deter criminals.
I wonder about on a large scale, but on a small scale, it can. If you live in a neighborhood and you break into people's houses, you wouldn't want to break into the house of someone who has a gun and isn't hesitant to use it. At least, not when he's home.

And I have heard about these studies that when concealed weapons laws were enacted, the crime rate went down. Were there other factors? Or was it because of the new carry laws? I don't know. Thomas should throw up some links.

But I do agree with Thomas Galvin's view on the redefinition of English thing. It's kind of like how Bush kept harping on the liberation of Iraq when that wasn't why we supposedly went in there, and now that's what you tend to hear.
post #44 of 116
[quote]Jacob Singer:
Quote:
Originally posted by Anyawatcher:
[qb]So because some crazy idiot kills 10+ people with a sniper rifle we should outlaw guns?
Who here said that?

It was said in the article. The DC sniper case was mentioned as a way to introduce this doomed bill.
post #45 of 116
Quote:
Devin moves 4th dimensionally:
There is not one shred of evidence that guns deter criminals.
<a href="http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/opinion/4598016.htm" target="_blank">Miami Herald.</a>

<a href="http://www.cato.org/events/000616bf.html" target="_blank">Liked the movie? Read the book.</a>

<a href="http://www.mcrgo.org/pdf/mi_cchl_brochure.pdf" target="_blank">Guns deter rape (PDF)</a>

Just the first few that came up.

post #46 of 116
[quote]Anyawatcher:
Quote:
Jacob Singer:
Quote:
Originally posted by Anyawatcher:
[qb]So because some crazy idiot kills 10+ people with a sniper rifle we should outlaw guns?
Who here said that?

It was said in the article. The DC sniper case was mentioned as a way to introduce this doomed bill.
But it wasn't the reason FOR the bill, which is what you made it sound like.

The sniper was used because it is a high profile example. Considering the daily gun deaths across the nation, they couldn't bring up all of them.
post #47 of 116
The more guns less crime thing is, frankly, silly. He's comparing apples and oranges. Let's see what crime is like in states with more comic book stores, because it's as relevant as his argument.

He shows no direct link, merely a numeric POSSIBLE link.
post #48 of 116
Quote:
As for the idea that guns should be sold at least with locks and kept stored for safety, there is an important trade-off to consider. The brutal Aug. 23, 2000, Carpenter family multiple-murder in Merced, Calif., is a case in point. Here two young children were slaughtered by an intruder with a pitchfork while the parents were away. One of the surviving children, 14-year-old Jessica, who had been taught to shoot by her father, was unable to protect her siblings.

The father's guns, pursuant to California safe-storage laws, were kept unloaded and inaccessible to the children. Had Jessica been able to reach a loaded weapon, she may have saved her little brother and sister. Unfortunately, this part of the story wasn't reported. Rather it was presented simply as an unavoidable tragedy.
[QB][/QB]
This was my favorite part of the links. Apparently, it is better to keep all guns loaded and ready for fire, just in case the kids need them.

Awsome.
post #49 of 116
And that PDF is a JOKE. It makes SPECIFIC NUMERIC CLAIMS and has nothing to back them up.

"FACT: Civilians in this country use firearms to stop over two million crimes each year."

SAYS WHO? WHERE DID THAT NUMBER COME FROM???
post #50 of 116
I can see thomas.galvin at the gun shop now:

"What kind of gun would Jesus have used?"

By the way, that Miami Herald link is an opinion piece, hardly statistical proof. You want hard facts, look at the American Medical Association's numbers on gun deaths in this country.
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