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Atheists Unite!

post #1 of 45
4/3/02 at 5:23pm
Thread Starter 
Just wanted to throw in a topic for the chewers who are NOT believers in the Divine Whatever. A great (and often comforting) website:

<a href="http://www.atheists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.atheists.org/</a>

It's a great place to keep up with political and social information regarding religion and the law, science, and the community.

And, if some of you religous folks feel like a visit, you're always welcome. There is a TON of info on the site, and it's really worth a look. In my humble opinion.
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post #2 of 45
4/3/02 at 8:29pm
Quote:
Jacob Singer:
Just wanted to throw in a topic for the chewers who are NOT believers in the Divine Whatever. A great (and often comforting) website:

<a href="http://www.atheists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.atheists.org/</a>

It's a great place to keep up with political and social information regarding religion and the law, science, and the community.

And, if some of you religous folks feel like a visit, you're always welcome. There is a TON of info on the site, and it's really worth a look. In my humble opinion.
Jacob....Why do YOU hate America?

wink
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post #3 of 45
4/3/02 at 9:00pm
Thread Starter 
Not enough Slurpee machines!
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post #4 of 45
4/3/02 at 9:35pm
Quote:
Jacob Singer:
Not enough Slurpee machines!
Good Lord!!! When did this occur?!?!?!?!
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post #5 of 45
4/3/02 at 11:24pm
I don't know if I'm an Atheist or not. I've little interest in allying myself with any symbol of religious freedom for closure's sake(so I can proclaim, "I'm an Atheist," whenever somebody asks), though I suspect that one would find me most 'Atheist' in my leaning.
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post #6 of 45
4/4/02 at 12:21am
Quote:
CTDelude (Sojourner):
Quote:
Jacob Singer:
Not enough Slurpee machines!
Good Lord!!! When did this occur?!?!?!?!
Rosanne, Bette Midler and Fran Dresher were released back into the public.
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post #7 of 45
4/4/02 at 5:33pm
Quote:
Adam Warren:
I don't know if I'm an Atheist or not. I've little interest in allying myself with any symbol of religious freedom for closure's sake(so I can proclaim, "I'm an Atheist," whenever somebody asks), though I suspect that one would find me most 'Atheist' in my leaning.
Just say, "I am Adam Warren!"

I very rarely bring up my religious affiliations, even if someone bluntly asks me. Cause it brings up sterotypical assertions about my person.
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post #8 of 45
4/4/02 at 9:48pm
Got any room for Agnostics?
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post #9 of 45
4/4/02 at 11:56pm
Every Atheist is a closet Agnostic...

...come out of the closet...please. You're just hurting yourself and your family by not owning up to it. wink
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post #10 of 45
4/5/02 at 12:35am
An Agnostic is merely an Atheist who's afraid of commitment. wink
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post #11 of 45
4/5/02 at 1:34am
alt.atheism is a good newsgroup, if you are able to keep up with all of the posts, always lots of great discussion and whatnot. I am the type of person who will state what I am when it comes up in conversations, and I'm lucky to surround myself with tolerent people. Except for when I wear my "Friendly Neighborhood Atheist" t-shirt to the mall. I always get the meanest looks.
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post #12 of 45
4/5/02 at 2:31am
I've little fear of voicing my identity, though, parading my theism, atheism, agnosticism, solopsism, Darwinism, or whatever, is not something which interests me.

I hesitate to call myself an Atheist because it appears 'Atheist' has a number of concepts associated with it. It is a Philosophy, and one which I do not understand. Therefor, I do not care to label myself an 'Atheist', rather, I am what I define myself as; not limited to astructured association of ideas which are not my own.
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post #13 of 45
4/5/02 at 12:37pm
I'm not educated on the finer points of Atheism, but it always seemed to entail the same underlying belief possessed by any believer in the divine. No proof exists to validate either side. Just a belief, existent without guaranteed proof.

No matter how much we strive to be different, we are all basically the same. Mescaline does help though.
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post #14 of 45
4/6/02 at 12:43pm
Quote:
U2Shark:
Except for when I wear my "Friendly Neighborhood Atheist" t-shirt to the mall. I always get the meanest looks.
Perhaps those people don't like friendly neighbors? wink
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post #15 of 45
4/6/02 at 12:59pm
BTW, I tend to refer to myself as an Existentialist.
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post #16 of 45
4/6/02 at 2:52pm
I just think it's endlessly humorous for a topic about a lack of religion to be placed in the religion forum.

Funny stuff.
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post #17 of 45
4/7/02 at 4:28pm
Quote:
jabbadonut:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always thought that an atheist is someone who believes that the Universe exists as some sort of random accident, without design or creative purpose. That there is no "creator" who can be assigned to the fact.
The way I define it, an atheist is a person who doesn't believe in the existance of god (or gods). In my case, since I do not believe that there is god(s), I can't buy the creationism theory. I think most people would define atheism as someone who doesn't believe in gods, and THEN their thoughts on the universe are modeled after that. But there are probably people who follow your model of thinking.
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post #18 of 45
4/8/02 at 12:52am
I find the title intriguing..."Atheists Unite". Sounds a little like a call to action...sort of like a call to prayer.

Making atheism a religion are we?
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post #19 of 45
4/8/02 at 4:42pm
Thread Starter 
The topic title "Atheists Unite" is a bit of a joke. While we do actually have conventions once in a while, there is no 'call to arms' other than to help keep other atheists and non-religious organizations aware of pending laws and efforts of groups like "Moral Majority" in local and national politics.

The only reason I actually profess my atheism is that while I am surrounded on all sides by non-religious people, most never claim a belief system of ANY type, or challenge themselves as to what they really believe. I never proseletyze (sp?), I only talk about it if others bring up theology and someone asks me directly.

As for bringing up a "non-religious" topic on the Religion Message board, it seems to me to be the appropriate place. I hope no one was offended. At least no more offended than I am when I see religion brought into just about every board on here, at one time or another.
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post #20 of 45
4/8/02 at 7:30pm
Quote:
Jacob Singer:
The topic title "Atheists Unite" is a bit of a joke. While we do actually have conventions once in a while, there is no 'call to arms' other than to help keep other atheists and non-religious organizations aware of pending laws and efforts of groups like "Moral Majority" in local and national politics.

The only reason I actually profess my atheism is that while I am surrounded on all sides by non-religious people, most never claim a belief system of ANY type, or challenge themselves as to what they really believe. I never proseletyze (sp?), I only talk about it if others bring up theology and someone asks me directly.

As for bringing up a "non-religious" topic on the Religion Message board, it seems to me to be the appropriate place. I hope no one was offended. At least no more offended than I am when I see religion brought into just about every board on here, at one time or another.
Jacob in no way do you offend. I think in all actuality we should be questioning of things on a religion board because if we didn't then we would be mindless slaves to a cause we can't comprehend.

As for the discussion of other beliefs I don't find that offensive in any way as it helps me further understand others perspectives which is integral in my ability to discuss my own faith. And i realize that if I try to shut someone up who is simply stating their beliefs I take away a right from them that opens the door for my right to speak my faith from me. Yea it gets under my skin sometimes but I see it as just more reasons to learn more, comprehend more, and articulate better so that I may reach people in a stronger way then those I find offensive. No need to come down on them when rather I should just build myself higher.
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post #21 of 45
4/8/02 at 7:45pm
I just find it interesting that when people say they are Atheists they are professing a belief - Atheists believe there are no Gods. They have faith in their beliefs.
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post #22 of 45
4/8/02 at 10:27pm
The definition of religion only partly pertains to a God or deity. A religion doesn't have to include a God or gods. It is a set of beliefs held to with ardor, faith, and conscientiousness.

According to Webster.

You could have religious or non-religious atheists. Some affirm their faith every day that there is no God/s. Others are lukewarm to their belief in no God/s.
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post #23 of 45
4/8/02 at 11:11pm
Thread Starter 
I fail to see how that applies to atheism as a mindset, other than the semantics of it.
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post #24 of 45
4/9/02 at 11:30am
Well, semantics are sort of a big deal if we're going to clearly define whether it's a religion or not. I'd say it is. As kronos said, it involves belief, rather than fact, which is most essential in any religion (and I'm not saying that's a bad thing, necessarily).

I stopped considering myself an atheist years ago when it occurred to me that there are just as few hard facts that prove the existence of God as there are that prove the non-existence of God. I'd just as soon say "I don't know," rather than stake a claim on either side.
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post #25 of 45
4/9/02 at 3:16pm
Thread Starter 
I wonder why no one is leaping to define Judaism for Jews, or Catholicism for Catholics, but you folks don't mind at all telling atheists what they believe.

I'm done here.
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post #26 of 45
4/9/02 at 4:24pm
Well, as you said, it's a "belief." Just as Jews and Catholics believe there is a God, atheists believe there is not one.

If you dissect the word, that's exactly what it means. I don't see how that's controversial at all.

If a Catholic says he believes that the world was formed by Cthulu and is ruled by a pantheon of God-beasts, he is not Catholic, no matter what he calls himself.

Neither agnostics nor atheists believe in God. The difference is that agnostics don't believe that there is necessarily no God. Their view is that there's not enough proof for either the theist or atheist viewpoint.
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post #27 of 45
4/9/02 at 4:29pm
Quote:
Jacob Singer:
I wonder why no one is leaping to define Judaism for Jews, or Catholicism for Catholics, but you folks don't mind at all telling atheists what they believe.

I'm done here.
jacob that kind of response only illicts that you are flustered by such arguements against atheism and are having a hard time coming to terms with it. My best suggestion is to explain what your "opinion" of what aethism is and what it essentially means to you rather then just give up the conversation.

The reason why we do not try and define Judiasm not Catholicism is that essentially they are pretty cut and dry in terms that, yes, they believe something and have things they believe in that protray to others what they are about.... i.e the Bible.

Aethists do not. Too ambigious and not enough to hold it together essentially as an idea. Because ultimately as a human being you have to belief in something. Whether science or God or gods you believe in something. The abscence of any belief makes you non-exsistent.

But hey thats my two cents. And i have been wrong about things or shown differently on a subject many, many times before.
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post #28 of 45
4/9/02 at 5:08pm
Quote:
jabbadonut:
I don't know if we can call Atheism a religion. It is a LACK of religion. I think we can all agree that the word "religion" connotes a belief system surrounding either a deity or deities, or a prophet or "leader" of some kind.
Well, if A-theism is the Belief that the Universe[s] lack[s] 'divine' presence[s], this precisely why I would choose Not to associate myself with such a Religion. The prophets of A-theism would be scientists, the leader human progress, and the diety a concept of rationality. Atheism, on such a premise, is a religion.
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post #29 of 45
4/9/02 at 5:28pm
I don't see how atheism isn't cut-and-dried. It's exactly as Adam defined it. It's the belief that a divine presence does not exist.

Even agnosticism isn't really a LACK of beliefs necessarily. It's the belief that neither side can be proven. I just find that belief to be the best supported, in that it requires no support, unlike theism of all sorts (Catholicism, Judaism, Cthulu-ism) and atheism.
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post #30 of 45
4/9/02 at 6:23pm
Thread Starter 
Ok, I'll give it a (brief) shot. I'm not a really bright person, so please bear with me:

It is not up to science to prove a negative. It is not up to atheists to disprove the existance of a deity. Atheists make no claim other than we see no evidence of deities, creation, etc.. All this talk of belief undermines the word itself. I believe my car is parked outside right now. I believe it may rain this afternoon. Obviously, ANYTHING WE THINK can be called a "belief". To me, that is not pertinent to the conversation. I will submit, however, that you folks have made your point. If we must call atheism a religion, so be it. It hardly matters to me.

Extroardinary claims require extroardinary evidence. Are UFO's real? It is up to the believers to prove it. Does bigfoot exist? It is up to the believers to prove it. Are the pyramids 5000 years older than previously thought? It is up to the believers to prove it. It is NOT up to science to DISPROVE extraordinary claims, nor is it up to atheists to disprove a god.

In the history of humanity, there have been hundreds of gods and hundreds of religions. Most people believe whatever their parents believe, or if not, some other religion that is in vogue during the time they live on Earth. I'm not questioning anyone's sincerity in that statement, just stating what I "believe" to be a simple truth. There is reason there ain't a lot of Bhuddists in Christiansburg, Virginia.

Anyhoo, that's my two cents. I respect other people's belief systems, I hope you can respect mine.

And Attack of the Clones is GREAT title, if you ask me...
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post #31 of 45
4/9/02 at 6:31pm
Heh heh heh...I love spurring a conversation by introducing the definition of the germaine term.

Me? I'm more agnostic than anything else. I'm more of the "we'll find out when we die" sort of belief.

Since I don't respond to threats in this World I don't respond to threats of damnation in the next. So if there is no God or gods then we end up floating about the Universe or something.

If not...then I hope the Buddhists were the correct ones and not the Baptists. Because I've done enough in this life to be "judged" for.
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post #32 of 45
4/9/02 at 6:54pm
Thread Starter 
You're a smart man, Kronos. wink
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post #33 of 45
4/9/02 at 11:35pm
Religion , in my mind at least, requires three things:

1) A book or, at the very least, a philosophy.
2) A guy who reads this book on a regular basis in one way or another.
3) People who listen and/or congregate to hear this guy read.

Atheism, to my knowledge, has none of these things... or at least, it doesn't have ALL of those things.
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post #34 of 45
4/10/02 at 11:42am
Quote:
Cheese Biscuits:
Religion , in my mind at least, requires three things:

1) A book or, at the very least, a philosophy.
2) A guy who reads this book on a regular basis in one way or another.
3) People who listen and/or congregate to hear this guy read.

Atheism, to my knowledge, has none of these things... or at least, it doesn't have ALL of those things.
I got one out of three. Am I still considered religious or Atheism? You decide.
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post #35 of 45
4/10/02 at 11:47am
Quote:
kronos:
If not...then I hope the Buddhists were the correct ones and not the Baptists. Because I've done enough in this life to be "judged" for.
As have we all.
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post #36 of 45
4/10/02 at 12:18pm
To me, the term "religion" comes off as a lot more open-ended than "atheism."

I'm sure many would claim to be religious even if their beliefs are not set down in a book and don't gather to listen to someone of their faith spout off.

And in the primary definition for "religion" in the dictionary I checked (American Heritage - no Webster's around at the moment), a belief in a "divine presence" is essential. The secondary definition seems to be more concerned with hyperbolic uses (like "he watches South Park religiously").

So, technically, atheism would NOT be a religion (if you go by that definition).

And, actually, "atheism" in this dictionary, seems to include both those who don't believe in God and those who deny the existence of God. Not quite the same thing.

Technically, agnostics (who don't believe in God, but don't deny that He could exist) AND hardcore atheists (who believe that God couldn't POSSIBLY exist) could both fall under the blanket term "atheist." I guess I'd be an atheist of the agnostic persuasion.
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post #37 of 45
4/11/02 at 11:58am
There's a line from a Jethro Tull song...

So to my old headmaster,
And to anyone who cares,
Before I'm through I'd like to say my prayers...

I don't believe you,
You have the whole damned thing all wrong,
He's not the kind you have to wind up on Sundays.

I don't know why that has always spoken volumes to me.
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post #38 of 45
4/11/02 at 1:56pm
Thread Starter 
Jethro Tull! Aqualung was a great album, I even had it in Quadraphonic back in the vinyl days. I think his wife wrote most of the lyrics on that one.
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post #39 of 45
4/11/02 at 2:39pm
Heh heh...and still relevant today.
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post #40 of 45
4/11/02 at 3:23pm
HAHAH I once had to clean up the drummer's from Jethro Tull house after it flooded! Lets just say he has a really really nice house and I could be jealous!
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post #41 of 45
7/25/02 at 4:59pm
Seemed germane. Thought I'd bump it up.

IMHO, an atheist is merely an agnostic with imaginary delusions of grandeur. wink
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post #42 of 45
7/25/02 at 5:07pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Burke&Pansy:
IMHO, an atheist is merely an agnostic with imaginary delusions of grandeur. wink
Hehe, could be, could be.

We get that quite a bit, actually.
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post #43 of 45
7/25/02 at 5:41pm
Still curious though...why a thread about Atheism in the Religion forum if it's not a religion or a belief?

That would be like placing a Baseball thread in the Sex forum.
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post #44 of 45
7/25/02 at 9:06pm
I think atheism belongs in the religion forum because it deals with "the God question." Anything that deals with God, or indirectly "no God," can easily be classified as a religious query and made into a reasonable thread.

Now why people keep putting straight evolution threads in this forum... well that's a mystery to me!
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post #45 of 45
7/25/02 at 10:33pm
Good one.
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