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Atheist Swayed By Claymation Story Of Christ

post #1 of 27
1/8/03 at 4:56pm
Thread Starter 
GRAND ISLAND, NE—Atheist Marcia Prewitt was converted to a life of devotion to the Lord following Sunday's viewing of the claymation movie The Miracle Maker. "I'd heard a lot of preaching and teaching about Christ throughout my life," Prewitt said, "but it took a clay-animated, Ralph Fiennes-voiced portrayal of Jesus to make me realize just how good and how wonderful He really is. I just wish everyone with confusion and strife in their heart could discover the healing truths of this cartoon."

OK this is from the Onion so I know it's satire but it prompted me to ask these questions.

If you are an atheist/agnostic, what would it take for you to become religious in any way?

If you were once atheist/agnostic and no longer are, why did you change?

(I also posted this cause it gets a little dark in here sometimes.)
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post #2 of 27
1/8/03 at 8:02pm
Depends on how you define religion. Let's take it this way (the way I think you intend it):

"Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe."

For me to buy Christianity (for example), God would have to manifest Himself in a very direct, scientifically quantifiable way, address all of mankind's questions, and then not only assert that everything in the New Testament is correct, but tell us the correct way to interpret it all.

And then I MIGHT be more convinced. But, still, probably never completely, as a being of such magnitude just might be lying...

And, I might add, as the amount of faith needed on my part decreases, it would mean:

a. I'm more inclined to believe in Christ's teachings.
b. It's less and less of a "religion" and more of a science.
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post #3 of 27
1/8/03 at 8:15pm
Quote:
For me to buy Christianity (for example), God would have to manifest Himself in a very direct, scientifically quantifiable way, address all of mankind's questions, and then not only assert that everything in the New Testament is correct, but tell us the correct way to interpret it all.
You want proof? Hell, we don't even know why life exists on Earth let alone a scientifically quantifiable Messiah or Redeemer!

That's where the whole idea of FAITH comes into play...for those who believe.
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post #4 of 27
1/8/03 at 8:19pm
It would take a lobotomy. I might become more spiritual or faithful, but I will never follow an organized religion.
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post #5 of 27
1/8/03 at 9:47pm
Quote:
ClearKronos Communications:
Quote:
For me to buy Christianity (for example), God would have to manifest Himself in a very direct, scientifically quantifiable way, address all of mankind's questions, and then not only assert that everything in the New Testament is correct, but tell us the correct way to interpret it all.
You want proof? Hell, we don't even know why life exists on Earth let alone a scientifically quantifiable Messiah or Redeemer!

That's where the whole idea of FAITH comes into play...for those who believe.
Ah, but, while I understand and respect the idea of faith, I've never said I have it (at least not in terms of spirituality).

I agree with everything you say, yet you phrase your response as if my answer was unsatisfying. Curious.
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post #6 of 27
1/8/03 at 9:50pm
I'm not atheist, but Agnostic, however I agree with Devin. I may some day believe in God... but never in the people who act like they speak for God, or as some call them, religion.
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post #7 of 27
1/8/03 at 10:52pm
Quote:
capteucalyptus (Scott Roche):
If you are an atheist/agnostic, what would it take for you to become religious in any way?
I consider myself an atheist who'd like to be an agnostic. Also, I believe that I am "religious" even though I don't subscribe to a god(s).

Like Dave had said, it depends on the definition of "religion." I have my own set of religions based on a conglomeration of various religious tenets -- from Buddhism to Christianity and even Humanism and other philosophies.

In a sense I have my own organized religion: My own personal religious thinking. I dictate what's good for me, without imposing such ideals and morality on others. I do not despise organized religion; what I do despise is people inherently not questioning another person's strict beliefs/ideals on something. Such an organization creates a "cult" of sorts where everyone is ultimately forced to think the same way.
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post #8 of 27
1/9/03 at 12:03am
Voltes, have to agree on the whole religion perspective.

I have a hard time describing my beliefs to anyone (I tried in chat once rather unsuccesfully).

I simply believe what feels right, because I believe its the faith thats important, not the rules and the structure and the rituals. Like you that means im left with a whole system of beliefs influenced by different faiths that cannot be categorized under any single religion, and as a whole they probably dont make sense to anyone else, but that doesn't matter.

After all I believe faith to be a personal thing, we have faith because we need it, not because its the latest must have accessory, how can something so personal be forced upon you and the way you live?

Because of this I don't believe anything could convert me one way or the other, to believe then it has to just make sense to me and if theres something i dont buy then i won't.
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post #9 of 27
1/9/03 at 7:46pm
Quote:
ClearKronos Communications:
You want proof? Hell, we don't even know why life exists on Earth let alone a scientifically quantifiable Messiah or Redeemer!

That's where the whole idea of FAITH comes into play...for those who believe.
Well where the hell does faith come from? Did you just choose to believe in a god, and then faith showed up?

Why should anyone believe in anything unless there's quantifiable proof or evidence? If a god wants people to believe in it, shouldn't it put in an appearance once in a while?
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post #10 of 27
1/9/03 at 8:20pm
And just as easily I will say He has and unfortunately (and this is an honest to goodness not to knock you) you have not seen Him because you choose not to.

Harsh? Maybe but I have seen the proof in my life and in other lives. I have seen fullfillment of phrophecy, I have seen healing and I have seen transformed people. I have seen nature itself and all its wonders and that is enough to have planted the seed of faith within me.
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post #11 of 27
1/10/03 at 2:57pm
Quote:
CTDeLude:
you have not seen Him because you choose not to.
Sorry, gotta call bullshit on that one. I do not have my head in the sand as far as a god is concerned. Neither do I have my head in the clouds, as so many around here seem to.
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post #12 of 27
1/10/03 at 3:56pm
Quote:
Jacob Singer:
Quote:
CTDeLude:
you have not seen Him because you choose not to.
Sorry, gotta call bullshit on that one. I do not have my head in the sand as far as a god is concerned. Neither do I have my head in the clouds, as so many around here seem to.
You do know the almighty winky is not almighty in receiving a free ride with those kinda comments right?

wink

Anywho Jacob you'd be surprised how much wide hide from ourselves. You'd be surprised.

Also it is quite cool and clean up hear above the smog

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post #13 of 27
1/10/03 at 4:17pm
Quote:
Jacob Singer:
Quote:
CTDeLude:
you have not seen Him because you choose not to.
Sorry, gotta call bullshit on that one. I do not have my head in the sand as far as a god is concerned. Neither do I have my head in the clouds, as so many around here seem to.
Here here. I second the bullshit.

I spent the large majority of my life praising God & studying & being a good Christian. I opened myself more than I should have. Now, I could meet God him(her)self (God might be a woman), & I still wouldn't listen to Priests, or Pastors, or Rabbis, etc.
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post #14 of 27
1/10/03 at 4:24pm
I'm not trying to be mean here or point fingers but those of you that said you have faith what do you have faith in? Faith that things will work out, faith that you will achieve your goals, what?
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post #15 of 27
1/10/03 at 4:51pm
Faith that there is not only a God, but a God who loves me and accepts no matter how much I may not do His will at times.

And that is a shame Guttenberg. I have had many men of God fail me. But I have not lost my faith in the God they serve nor have I lost the knowledge that we all fall short of the glory of God.
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post #16 of 27
1/10/03 at 4:58pm
Quote:
CTDeLude:
And just as easily I will say He has and unfortunately (and this is an honest to goodness not to knock you) you have not seen Him because you choose not to.
I don't consider this harsh, because it's the same thing as me saying "you don't see the great bunny in the sky because you choose not to."

"I mean, after all, Delude, he's made himself known to me, and he's even TOLD me that he's been trying to get in touch with you, but you just won't pay attention."

In either case, it's accusing others of being shortsighted in not seeing what you or I believe.
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post #17 of 27
1/10/03 at 5:05pm
Dude I've been waitin for the Bunny!
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post #18 of 27
1/10/03 at 5:09pm
Let me clarify a little bit. There wasn't any particular person or moment that did it for me. No person 'failed' me. It happened over time. It's all the hypocracy & hate. The idea that one type of person is going to be saved & another isn't. That God favors one person over another because of the choices they make. It all seems like pretentious bullshit when some priest tries to tell me that God hates gay people, or non-christian people. Hell is a load of BS as well.

And, I see religious authority figures as anyone who claims to know the path that 'God' has chosen(yes there are a few on these boards). That includes all the people in the Bible that claim to have met God.

I'm glad for those who have faith & it makes them happy. Seriously. Good for you. Anything to make your time alive more enjoyable is kosher in my book.
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post #19 of 27
1/10/03 at 5:18pm
Quote:
CTDeLude:
Dude I've been waitin for the Bunny!
See? Sounds silly, doesn't it?

Naturally, your beliefs aren't silly to you. But the idea really isn't so different, except for the fact that some guys wrote some stuff about the Christian God many years ago while the Bunny is entirely faith-based, as I have no support whatsoever for the concept but my unfailing belief that Bunny watches over me.

So, basically, if you remove faith from the picture, it's:

No Support Whatsoever

vs.

Some Old Books

Neither seems all that solid a foundation to me.
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post #20 of 27
1/10/03 at 5:20pm
And, yes, I realize faith is the important element, but what I'm getting at is that faith can be concocted out of thin air just as easily as it can be gleaned from a book or tradition.
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post #21 of 27
1/10/03 at 5:24pm
Quote:
Don't Stop DaveB-lieving:
...faith can be concocted out of thin air just as easily as it can be gleaned from a book or tradition.
Bingo!

And the bunny story is ironic, considering the sig I adopted yesterday...
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post #22 of 27
1/10/03 at 6:05pm
Thread Starter 
I find it interesting that there are some of you that believe that to belong to a certain religious groups requires a blind following. The Bible admonishes us against this sort of blind obedience. It asks us to think for ourselves and work through things. Anyone that follows a belief blindly (including atheism) is foolish. The Christians around me are continually questioning and sharpening. Education is very important. And we don't all believe precisely the same things about God. My Greek Orthodox, Catholic, and Baptist brethren all believe slightly (and in some cases grossly) different things about the nature of salvation, worship, and the Godhead.

I also find the discussion about faith very interesting. My personal belief is that God is the source of my faith. I don't have faith because of anything in me or any kind of proof I have (though there is proof for certain things I believe and this serves to strengthen my faith in other areas). I have faith because God chose me. Now I know that many of you are going to find this hard to swallow but it is part of God's pattern of behavior. He chooses bodies of people and individual persons. Does he do it because of something special in that person? I don't think so. He is infinite in wisdom and I can't begin to guess his motives. As Cheese (I think) said, God is unknowable, but He has seen fit to reveal Himself to us in the Bible. He could choose and has chosen some of you I believe. Some of you just may not know it yet.

And those of you that either choose not to follow or to stop following because of the evil in men, I urge you to look not at men but at God. He has done hard things. Things that I don't undestand and that make me scratch my head. But ultimately He (or She if you prefer) is good.

Keep seeking for the truth and may it lead you to God.
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post #23 of 27
1/10/03 at 6:11pm
Agreed, Faith can be concoted out of thin air, it can be made up or it can be something that you follow through tradition. But the point really is that you have faith in something, anything.

It shouldnt matter if your a christian and believe in heaven and hell, a buddhist who believes that life is a continious changing state until we die or a member of a two man cult who believe aliens use our bodies as sex dolls when we go.

Even Atheism is in fact faith, you have faith in science, or whatever else you believe. It doesn't begin and end with an omnipotent being, It can be faith in human nature.

If you have faith in something, even something impractical to anyone else - I already stated my personal faith is made up of a mixture of common beliefs moulded to what I feel comfortable believing in - then very little is going to persuade you otherwise. And if one man believes then they have as much right to that belief as a million men to their common belief, because it's only "right" to us - I think that is the point trying to be made with the Bunny thing, I could be wrong.

It's the whole reason I resent organised religion, what right does anyone have to condem me to they're beliefs - Beliefs which are only true to them. I believe that everyone chooses their own path, and who's to say they dont end up where they want to go at the end of it, if they were decent human beings, regardless of wether we think theyre heading for the right place.

I believe we should praise people for the good that they do, instead of condemning good people to an eternity of suffering, or accusing them of being spiritually short sighted, because they choose not to believe in something that may not exist outside of our own mind or shared ideology.

That was a long rant my apologies to everyone I bored or offended.
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post #24 of 27
1/10/03 at 7:32pm
Pardon me if I'm going back and forth on this, since I tend to play devil's advocate on these types of subjects.

But it seems to me that faith does not exist in a vaccuum.

I will absolutely admit to having faith, of a sort, in science. I don't completely understand how the biological functions of my body work, but I have faith that the doctor performing surgery on me will. It's faith backed up by physical evidence, etc.

By the same token, faith in a Christian God is not entirely faith-based. Books and tradition lead the way to it. However, books and tradition also could lead to a devout belief in the Greek and Norse gods and other things that would be scoffed at today.

If I were to tell you that the Metamorphosis was a holy guide and Zeus, himself, is the source of my faith, how would it be different than you telling me that the Bible is a holy book and God is the source of your faith?

Both claims are pretty much above dispute (as the faith part is all internal), yet I'm pretty sure one would get you laughed out of the room.

In any case, as faith is informed by what we observe (be it the Bible, nature, medical science), it seems more logical to go with the route that requires the least amount of faith.

Sure, you can argue that logic has nothing to do with it, but I think that casts SERIOUS doubt on any other argument you'd care to make about ANY topic.
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post #25 of 27
1/12/03 at 5:36am
If you believe in anything, that belief automatically turns to truth (in your perspective). Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, etc. all believe in a certain set of values, miracles, or laws and claim to have seen proof of their validity. If you didn't see proof, why would you believe?

On that same note, how can any of these belief systems be wrong if they have proof of their worth as evedenced by their followers. All faiths claim proof of their miracles, prayers answered, or prophecies fulfilled.

How can they all be right?
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post #26 of 27
1/12/03 at 5:38am
Oh, and on topic, never underestimate the power of clay. Gumby IS God.
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post #27 of 27
1/12/03 at 3:40pm
Quote:
way cool hubris:
Oh, and on topic, never underestimate the power of clay. Gumby IS God.
Davey and Goliath!
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