CHUD.com Community › Forums › POLITICS & RELIGION › Religion A-Z › Religious debate on prayer belongs here,
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Religious debate on prayer belongs here, - Page 2

post #51 of 78
2/3/03 at 4:42pm
Quote:
Burke recruits...:
Christians believe (calvinists accepted) that God has already saved every person on this planet , if they accept God into their lives. By that token, their is no need for God to save anyone from death because God has already saved them.

If God exists, God has created a world where we will all die. I'm not sure it's fair to say God is picking people to die every day since God has already instituted death for all people.

Let's face it; people doing dangerous work are more likely to die than a person sitting on their couch. Since we all know we pass on, we take our chances and God picks up the pieces.
I'd say that's pretty well put.
Reply
post #52 of 78
2/3/03 at 4:51pm
God saw you lookin' at those nekkid women pics over in the Sex forum, Beav....
Reply
post #53 of 78
2/3/03 at 4:55pm
Thing is that we know from day one that we are going to die. How, When, Why, shouldn't be an issue here. What you do with your life while you are in that tiny window of life should be your concern. You can do something great with yourself, or you can say "Well, I'm going to die anyway, I'll just sit right here until I do."or..."Well I think I will try to kill myself, I've got to go sometime." That's not a very healthy way to look at things. Prayer and following God helps to guide you through your decisions in a moral and healthy way.
Reply
post #54 of 78
2/3/03 at 4:58pm
Quote:
Hubris, the new pet rock:
God saw you lookin' at those nekkid women pics over in the Sex forum, Beav....
What's your point? I never claimed to be perfect, I'm just participating in a debate here. It's all about convictions, man. God put some wonderful art work here for us to admire. wink
Reply
post #55 of 78
2/3/03 at 4:58pm
Quote:
Burke recruits...:
Quote:
RathBandu:
Quote:
Conflict Lad:
People also shouldn't get mad when Iraq says it was God's punishment that these folks die.
I am fascinated in hearing your reasoning behind this.
Rath, he's completely right...
I never said he wasn't, I just said I was interested in hearing what he had to say.
Reply
post #56 of 78
2/3/03 at 5:08pm
Quote:
beavis:
Quote:
Guttenberg Fan Club:
So god does not impose his will on us. That's fine with me. Just don't say after a tragedy that it was god's will, or god works in mysterious ways, or any other bullshit. if there is a god, he is just watching and had nothing to do with the accident.

Of course this being the case, prayer becomes an exercise in futility. Something done to make the prayer feel better, not to improve the state of those they are praying for.
God does have an effect on everything, He's not just some onlooker. Without knowing the God that I know, you will never be able to understand where I am coming from. Yes, that's a bold statement, I meant it that way.

Faith and prayer is a wonderful thing, think it futile or not. You just don't understand it, nor do you probably want to right now and that's alright, your perogative if you will.

Prayer does work, I have seen it work, and you or any other nay-sayer on this board will ever tell me otherwise. I am sure there are a few others around here that will tell you the same thing. I'm not forcing anything on you or telling you what to believe, you have the free will to believe whatever you want to. When you do see it work and something great happens you will know what I am talking about.
Okay, if god DOES impact the world, then there is no free will. If god picks & chooses when he'll help people, then he is also a narcissistic prick; only helping those who stroke his ego by giving up whatever free will they were given to devote their lives to worshipping him. People who don't buy into the writings and interpretations of men who lived thousands of years ago can get fucked I suppose.

You can't have both. There is either free will, or there is not. Which is it?
Reply
post #57 of 78
2/3/03 at 5:25pm
Something occurred to me driving back from my lunch hour.

If, to you, God exists, and He is love, do you really think He would want you bickering so bitterly over this issue?

Just a thought. Bicker away.
Reply
post #58 of 78
2/3/03 at 5:25pm
Quote:
Guttenberg Fan Club:
Okay, if god DOES impact the world, then there is no free will.
How do you figure this? God does impact the world based on our choices.
Quote:
If god picks & chooses when he'll help people, then he is also a narcissistic prick;
He put us here he has the right to be narcissistic if He so chooses to be.
Quote:
only helping those who stroke his ego by giving up whatever free will they were given to devote their lives to worshipping him.
</strong>
Those in the know will tell you that they have only gained because of their following.
Quote:
People who don't buy into the writings and interpretations of men who lived thousands of years ago can get fucked I suppose.
</strong>
That's not for me, or anyone else to say. They made a choice.
Quote:
You can't have both. There is either free will, or there is not. Which is it?
There is free will.

"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." Rush-Free Will
Reply
post #59 of 78
2/3/03 at 5:35pm
So your idea of free will amounts to this:

You can make whatever choice you want, but if god doesn't agree, he can punish you.
Reply
post #60 of 78
2/3/03 at 5:46pm
Would you want it any other way...

Humans hate having rules imposed on them. They'd prefer to hear the rule and then make up their own mind.

Which is pretty much what you just said...

Edited for spelling
Reply
post #61 of 78
2/3/03 at 5:51pm
Quote:
Guttenberg Fan Club:
So your idea of free will amounts to this:

You can make whatever choice you want, but if god doesn't agree, he can punish you.
Basically, yes. Most parents raise their children this way. Children rebel against their parents as people rebel against God. The concequences of the latter are much worse, though.
Reply
post #62 of 78
2/3/03 at 5:52pm
Quote:
Burke recruits...:
Would you want it any other way...

Humans hate having rules imposed on them. They'd prefer to hear the rule and then make up their own mind.

Which is pretty much what you just said...

Edited for spelling
A good way of putting it.
Reply
post #63 of 78
2/3/03 at 5:57pm
yeah, I am confusing myself even.

My problem comes in with the idea that prayers help anything, or that god changes the world as he sees fit. As I mentioned above, when tragedies happen & someone says, that's gods will. Well, if god imposes his will upon us, then we don't have any.

Someones time is up? Another one I hate. Everyone has to die, but if ones time of death is predetermined, then that also disproves free will. If there is a specific moment in the future that I am to die, then nothing I do before it matters.
Reply
post #64 of 78
2/3/03 at 6:24pm
So nothing that Mother Theresa did, for example, mattered? You have no idea what the things that you do will effect those around you. You're going to die, God knows when, get out there and do something important before that time comes.
Reply
post #65 of 78
2/3/03 at 7:21pm
My take on this is such (if I have some clue what this topic is on... which I'm not sure I do):

I like waffles. If God has a problem with that, he sure as hell hasn't told me about it. Does God even care if I eat waffles or not? Damned if I know. So until he says something, I'm going to eat my freakin' waffles.

Same applies to lots of things.
Reply
post #66 of 78
2/3/03 at 9:46pm
The point of my Iraq comment is that if you're going to mouth off about your god you should be pretty ok with folks who do likewise about theirs.

Since I think mouthing off about your god is for mouth breathers in the first place, I can get upset with all the folks who do it.
Reply
post #67 of 78
2/3/03 at 10:16pm
I respect your right to believe in whatever.

Respect my right to not hear about it.
Reply
post #68 of 78
2/3/03 at 11:52pm
It's now a constitutional right not to hear something.

Ok.
Reply
post #69 of 78
2/3/03 at 11:57pm
This isn't about constitutional rights. I'm not the federal government.
Reply
post #70 of 78
2/4/03 at 12:47am
Please explain the hypocrisy.
Reply
post #71 of 78
2/4/03 at 3:00am
So, this guy showed up at the party and started telling offensive jokes. We told him to fuck off, and he told us to get a sense of humour.
Reply
post #72 of 78
2/4/03 at 8:34am
Quote:
Jabbadonut Slept Here:
The hypocrisy is that you are intolerant, yet preach tolerance.
This could also be used to describe most major religions.
Reply
post #73 of 78
2/4/03 at 12:55pm
Quote:
Dan Whitehead:
Quote:
Jabbadonut Slept Here:
The hypocrisy is that you are intolerant, yet preach tolerance.
This could also be used to describe most major religions.
You have a point there. Just look at how many denominations of the protestant church there are. How about the fact that most churches are primarily one race? Folks get fed up and start their own thing because they don't like what someone has to say, regardless if it's the truth or not. They don't take the time to look into it and see if the other person knows that what they are talking about is right. Everybody wants their way to be the right way, myself included. It's all about convictions.
Reply
post #74 of 78
2/4/03 at 1:20pm
Quote:
Dan Whitehead:
Quote:
Jabbadonut Slept Here:
The hypocrisy is that you are intolerant, yet preach tolerance.
This could also be used to describe most major religions.
You have a point there. Just look at how many denominations of the protestant church there are. How about the fact that most churches are primarily one race? Folks get fed up and start their own thing because they don't like what someone has to say, regardless if it's the truth or not. They don't take the time to look into it and see if the other person knows that what they are talking about is right. Everybody wants their way to be the right way, myself included. It's all about convictions.
Reply
post #75 of 78
2/4/03 at 10:58pm
I've been biting my tongue, but no longer. What has really bothered me about this thread is the fact that this debate has carried on for so long.

7 people died over the weekend, but somehow it turned into a religious feud, completely detracting from that fact. I felt like I walked into the twilight zone when I got caught up with it again.

I saw on the other thread where Nick made a good point about the differences regarding science and religion, but it has just kept on and on and on and on and on over here. It's senseless. It's pointless. Why can't everybody give it a rest? It's way past old.

&lt;my only rant for the day&gt;
Reply
post #76 of 78
2/4/03 at 11:00pm
Same thing happened when 5000+ died 9/11
Reply
post #77 of 78
2/4/03 at 11:37pm
And Jabba, why do you even give a damn about how successful devilf is or isn't in life?

Who cares?

Quit making every damn thread about him. It does nothing but feed his ego and frustrate you even more.
Reply
post #78 of 78
2/4/03 at 11:57pm
Jabba, it's kept me off crack and out of jail.
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Religion A-Z
CHUD.com Community › Forums › POLITICS & RELIGION › Religion A-Z › Religious debate on prayer belongs here,