Biblical Literalism - Page 4

I suppose every human being has to admit that at some point... wink

Nelson,

Seriously, do Christian Scientists believe in Heaven/Hell? I was under the impression that Eddy's teachings were more aligned with the physical body doing something or other. Can you clarify?

I didn't mean to imply you had to pass judgment on me. I understand that, by your beliefs, God is the only true judge of these things.

I'm just wondering what criteria you believe gets you into Heaven. I imagine you must have some idea so that you yourself can follow the rules.

Is it simply "wanting" to go there? I can't imagine anyone not WANTING to go there, even those of us who don't believe it exists. It's sort of like I don't believe I'll win the lottery tomorrow, but I'd certainly want to. No one's really gunning for Hell, exactly, y'know?

Is it a lack of faith in God?

Is it knowing love? Is it enough to know love for mankind, existence, etc., but to not acknowledge God as real?

Or is it a failure to obey God's rules?

christian science is interesting...

I once thought of the possibility that heaven could as well just be another dimension. what lead me to that? well, when you read of beings and angels dissapearing, the option that other dimension exist comes to mind.

[quote]Nelson:
This is kind of a rough point here Nelson, if the Son of God makes a statement shouldn't that be taken as literal as possible? Interpreting the Bible different is one thing, but this is a direct statement from Jesus. I fall into the nothing camp (think atheist is a contradiction in terms) but this seems a pretty harsh statement without much room for playing with.

[quote]otisthecat:
remember than when Jesus was saying the above it was to his followers hwo happened to be Hebrews.

In numerous occasions Jesus said that heaven is an open invitation. he made no exceptions through his examples: the women at the well in Samaria, the Roman Centurion, etc.

one of the things that anger the religious leaders was the fact that Jesus was saying that God's Kingdom was for everyone. it was no longer something exlusive to one nation or religion.

yes, I am Seventh-Day Adventist (SDA). It's a long story, but I was born catholic, attended SDA school all through elementary and through two years of high-school, and someone where in high-school made the conscious decesion to join the SDA denomination.

[quote]Nelson:
This should be written in bold face type and all caps on the cover of the Bible.

Well the only problem is is that the only way through Heaven is to know Christ and thus God will know you. Christ is not actions and is not words. Christ is Christ and is something that must be accepted in one's heart to be able to enter into everlasting life.

The woman at the well and others accepted Christ as savior. Thats the key. They accepted Christ. They didn't accept His teachings alone nor His miracles alone because then you could call the Apostles divine then. they were human. Those people accepted what Christ was doing as God's will and Christ as the Son of God.

So unfortunately it is not like OT Times where you didn't have to be Jewish to obtain heaven but now in NT times and after you must accept Christ as risen Lord and Saviour to take your place in heaven..

Clears it a bit, thank you CT & Nelson.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like Nelson and his fellow SDAs don't believe this?

Like DaveB, I am a bit confused in this discussion as well; because, for example, CT talks about one thing then Nelson talks about something different in regards to Christ and Heaven.

I think it will make a good topic discussing the various denominations of Christianity/Catholicism. It's probably an epic undertaking but I am interested in hearing about the differences and similarites -- especially in regards to philosophies and beliefs.

Uhhhh...no.

You mean, that the eternal battle between Christians and Atheists are nothing compared to the battles between various Christian/Catholic denominations?

Again. This will make a great topic. [evil voice]Teehee...[/evil voice]

Uhh...yeah.

Let me add one more belief to my list:

If there is a heaven and a hell (and I'm not saying there is), but if there is, I think to get in heaven, you must know that in your heart you know what you have done in life is good.

Example: if a 8 year old kid kills his best friend because he played with Daddy's gun, I don't think that is a sin. The kid didn't know better. He didn't think what he was doing was wrong. Now, Daddy... well, he's going straight to hell.

Example number 2: A man kills his wife because she wouldn't stop bitching. This man knows better, and he knows what he did was wrong, yet he does it anyway.

I don't think it matters what you believe in (God or not)... but rather, if you are in your heart a good person (and you should know if you are or aren't). If you do something wrong that you knew at the time was wrong, well... to hell you might go.

Of course, I could be wrong. God could be an egotistical asshole who only lets into heaven those who love him and follow him without having any thoughts or ideas of their own.

If God wants us all to be his cattle... he can come down here and smack me with a cattle-prod. If heaven and hell work based truly on right and wrong decisions (and I think most adults, religious or not... conservative or liberal, all know what is right and wrong), then I'm all for it. Praise God, if that is the case. But, if heaven is just some gigantic fan club for God... screw that. I'd rather burn in hell.

just look at it this way, I think Gandhi will be in heaven.

And I can't comment because I don't know if perhaps Ghandhi had accepted Christ anytime in his lifetime or even before he died. I just don't know.

I'm just curious, but by your thinking, all the Jews, Muslims, Atheists, Agnostics, Gnostics, Buddhists, Hindus, etc. are ALL going straight to hell because they haven't "accepted Christ"?

Gandhi said that if christians would've practiced what they preached, he would've been a christian himself. but he got to meet the worst of them in south africa.

but apparently he was very fond of Jesus' teachings, as he applied them to his own life.

My bad. I get Adventists and C. Scientists mixed up constantly, for no discernible reason. I apologize.

More Christian elitist bullshit.

If heaven does exist, I bet there will be fewer Christians there than you think.

Take it or leave it but Jesus said no one comes to the Father accept through me. So rather than me giving you some kind of answer, take it up with Him.

Hello Dino:

Your not kidding it would take an epic undertaking

From: <a href="http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_divi.htm" target="_blank">http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_divi.htm</a>

Divided Christianity:
According to David Barrett et al, editors of the "World Christian Encyclopedia: A comparative survey of churches and religions - AD 30 to 2200," Christianity coexists with 18 other major world religions. 1 The 19 religions are subdivided into a total of 270 large religious groups, and many tens of thousands of smaller ones. The editors have identified 34,000 separate Christian groups in the world. "Over half of them are independent churches that are not interested in linking with the big denominations." 1

Differences among Christian faith groups are so great that some observers have suggested that Christianity is really a number of separate religions with different beliefs and practices, which share the name "Christianity," the text of the Bible, and not a great deal else. They take various conflicting positions on such topics as abortion, homosexuality, the death penalty, etc.

This essay describes how people have attempted to classify Protestant denominations into liberal and conservative (or liberal, mainline and conservative) wings. It also describes some of the conflicts both within and among Protestant denominations. These divisions and conflicts are largely traceable to different views of the Bible.

Ranging from the most conservative to the most liberal Christians we see the following three belief systems:

The Bible is the actual Word of God. Its authors were directly inspired by God. Since God cannot be in error, their writings are also inerrant -- without error -- in their original autograph version. All passages are useful for the believer.

The Bible contains the Word of God. However, it also contains material that we must reject because it is opposed to the will of God. This includes passages which condone slavery, exhibit religious intolerance, involve the torturing prisoners, treat women as property, and material that advocates genocide, sexism, homophobia, etc.

The Bible is a wide-ranging human document, written by very human people. They incorporated a lot of material from nearby Pagan religions, like the creation stories and the great flood of Noah as described in the Book of Genesis. Some of its content is profoundly immoral by today's religious and secular criteria, and must be ignored. The Bible's calls for justice and decent treatment of all people are vitally important today. The authors' intent was to promote their own personal beliefs, beliefs of their groups, including their concepts of God. The Bible records the authors' evolution in spiritual and religious belief over a period of about 1,000 years.

Obviously, by starting with such diverse beliefs about the Bible, conservatives and liberals come to totally different conclusions about its contents.

Umm..not to be a party pooper or anything, but...

Biblical Literalism? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?....

wink

My bad, Buttercup...you're on track, and I'm too sleepy to post intelligently...boy, is my face red...

Then I guess Old Testament figures such as Noah, Job, Abraham, and Moses are shit outta luck, cause I'm pretty sure none of them even heard of Jesus.

In the Scriptures it is written that the Covenant between God and Man changed with the sacrifice of His Son.

The Savior came for the present and future people, not retroactively. Therefore any Old Testament figures would be cool with the deal they had with The Lord. You know, sacrificial lambs, etc. The old lamb thing was fine up till the death of Jesus. Then it was a whole new ball game.

According to Christian beliefs.

Just about all politicians.

Please read everything in a thread before asking something like this. I dislike having to repeat myself. This kind of response betrays an attitude that is seeking to poke holes at me rather then finding understanding of where I come from in my beliefs or more information about my faith.

And I don't mean to say that in a harsh manner mind you.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to shit on YOUR thread, started by YOU, and concerning YOUR God and YOUR place in heaven. I'll try to follow YOUR rules in the future.

Funny I didn't start the thread either.

Keep diggin the hole. And please learn to communicate in a more effective manner if you wish to state your opinion on matters. I don't think you will get many repsonses and the responses you will get for talking thus wil not be too nice. If you want me to respect anything you have to say give me something better to work with then sarcasm.

This isn't jr. high alright?

Correct, because we don't talk about popular mythology in Junior High.

I realize you did not start the thread. That's the point. You seem to think that you own the rights to any valid opinion on the subject. Ghandi is in hell and all the good Christians who pass judgement on others are sitting in heaven listening to Lawrence Welk and drinking bottled water.

You are also correct that this isn't junior high. To make it to junior high you must have at least SOME capacity for independent, rational thought. Instead of hiding behind "God said so", take a look at some of your views and come up with your own opinion. God gave you reason and rationality, use it.

When you get to the afterlife, I hope God has a long talk with all the narrow-minded people that claim to be followers of his 'son'. I would be afraid to fess up to all the bigotry, hatred, and destruction his 'followers' have caused. You may say that this has nothing to do with the 'modern christian' and that the sins of the past will be paid for by those who did all the damage, but by calling yourself a Christian, you bare that burden. The attitudes the church has toward homosexuality and those who don't happen to worship the same way they do are a black mark on the soul of whosoever calls themself a Christian.

Sorry for the sarcasm, it's one of the side effects of thinking.

Also, I managed to write this without saying "shit" once...Oh FUCK, there I go...

Funny, we did when I was in Jr High.

See this is where it becomes difficult to realte things because we do not know each other.

if you knew me you would know that I came to these conculsions partly because I was raised this way and mostly because I have seen enough of what this world has to offer to know that what is written in the Bible makes a hell of a lotta sense. My independent thought process is perfectly in check. I think long and hard about a great many things. I have not been labelled by others (Non - Christians) as self-aware (aware of the things happening around me and in my heart and mind) for nothing.

That and I would be able to talk to you one on one in what I believe is the deeper issues you have with Christianity. Your quick venom betrays the fact that you have had some adverse experiences with Christianity and I apologize for that.

But do not mistake me for a bigot, or a man of prde or any other thing without knowing me thank you. And thank you God has long talks with me everyday. I dont need heaven for that. He speaks to me through the Bible and through the evidence of everyday life. There is nothing particularly "special" about it. He can speak to you just the same as He can speak to me.

I wish you could know me beyond this screen name and words typed on a screen but alas it may never be. But perhaps if we can be so less quick to judge one another perhaps we can have some peace amongst each other. I have yet to speak of you with any adverse name yet you choose to use them to describe me. Please think on that.

And once again did I say Ghandhi was in hell? No. If he accepted Christ at some time then He could very well be in heaven. I do now know nor do I presume to judge. All I know is the word of Christ that no man can come to the Father accept through faith in Him. Simple as that. I dare not think myself so high and mighty that I can twist the words of my Lord and Saviour to be more acceptable to a world view. more PC. I cannot and will not. Simple as that. I respect the fact you deem what I believe as falsehoods and bigoted and such. But that does not deem it acceeptable nor appropriate all the same. You have your right to think as you do. Free will encompasses it all. But I want you to think on what mindset do you come with speaking to me as you do. Speaking to others in this thread as you do. Why must hate be casted in such a way?

Darth I think your posts are funny. I am glad you are apart of this CHUD family. And I am glad you survived us long enough to still be around here. Again I can only hope we might get along. There is too much anger already out there in the world and in here at the same time. While you and I argue amongst ourselves there is the whole city of Maryland under the fear of death from a terror unseen. There are so many things of anger and hate.

Why should we add to it like we have?

Wasn't it current mythology when you were in junior high?

It was 26 years ago or so. Current vs popular? Don't actually recall. But I did have a teacher that spent a lot of time talking about classical mythology in relationship to modern myth, ie: Movie lore.

I followed up on these studies in college. Mostly the study of The Hero. I did a thesis on mthologic weapons...those with names, that had been endowed with a spirit all their own. Such as El Tizon.

You took the high road, as shall I.

Your religion is your right, my spirituality is mine. It is nice to see someone with the cajones to stand up for their belifs (as well as the knowledge to back it up.)

Flame off.

Peace.

Very touching...really...

But come on guys...Samson IS Hercules. Right?


(...is Gilgamesh...is John Henry...)

Awwwwww Scoot!

*Hugs*

eek!

I deny touching anyone....