CHUD.com Community › Forums › POLITICS & RELIGION › Religion A-Z › Biblical Literalism
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Biblical Literalism - Page 2

post #51 of 194
10/7/02 at 12:38am
Quote:
Raiders of the Lost Pox:
Quote:
CTDeLude:
The Flood was not caused by rain alone but by worldwide undersea earthquakes and volcanic eruptions that caused huge waves surging back and forth across the earth.
Wait, I thought it was caused by God?

And responding to a question about Noah getting all the animals on the Ark by saying "God did it" isn't really going to change someone who views the whole story as fiction, is it?
Again faith.

I'm not here trying to convince you...you gotta convince yourself.

And God controls nature anyways. So thus He is the one who caused the earth to react in such a way.

And prior to the Flood there had been no such thing as rain.
Reply
post #52 of 194
10/7/02 at 12:41am
Quote:
CTDeLude:
And prior to the Flood there had been no such thing as rain.
Then why is it still around? If it was unleashed to teach us a lesson, why does it still happen?
Reply
post #53 of 194
10/7/02 at 1:07am
Quote:
CTDeLude:
Quote:
Raiders of the Lost Pox:
Quote:
CTDeLude:
The Flood was not caused by rain alone but by worldwide undersea earthquakes and volcanic eruptions that caused huge waves surging back and forth across the earth.
Wait, I thought it was caused by God?

And responding to a question about Noah getting all the animals on the Ark by saying "God did it" isn't really going to change someone who views the whole story as fiction, is it?
Again faith.

I'm not here trying to convince you...you gotta convince yourself.

And God controls nature anyways. So thus He is the one who caused the earth to react in such a way.

And prior to the Flood there had been no such thing as rain.
I'm amazed that anyone can believe the things you believe in the 21st century. Do you believe in magic? Could I become a "man-witch" (mmm tasty) if I forsake God and take Satan into my heart?

There are more or less 9 million species in the world. The bible states that Noah and his family loaded the Ark up in 7 days. That’s 30 animals a second, every second, for 7 days.

How would Noah and his family keep Koala bears alive? They eat only Eucalyptus (spelling likely wrong) leaves. How would Noah even know what the different animals need? How would Noah store all that food when he doesn’t even have space for all the animals?

What about all the plant life that would die under the flood waters? Did Noah store one of every plant?

What about all the food the animals would need? Elephants, hippos, rhinoceroses, and giraffes need between 50 and 100 pounds of food a day to survive?

What about animals that live in drastically different climates (polar bears vs. lions, artic fox vs. iguanas)? Was the ark climate controlled?

How did Noah keep all the diseases from viri to worms alive without killing the animals he was trying to preserve?

The Bible is a collection of stories meant to teach people lessons about moral issues. They are not literally true. If you believe in Noah's Ark, if you believe in Adam and Eve, you're no different from someone who believes in Alien Abductions, or that Miss Cleo can tell your future.
Reply
post #54 of 194
10/7/02 at 9:41am
Let's keep this forum one of the better behaved ones, fellas. I've never had to close a thread, and I sure don't want to start now...
Reply
post #55 of 194
10/7/02 at 11:05am
Huh? What's been out of line so far?
Reply
post #56 of 194
10/7/02 at 11:41am
Quote:
Raiders of the Lost Pox:
Huh? What's been out of line so far?
I'd say the blatant attacks on the literal religious beliefs of others counts as out of line.
Reply
post #57 of 194
10/7/02 at 12:04pm
What blatant attacks? I've only seen people questioning these beliefs.
Reply
post #58 of 194
10/7/02 at 12:16pm
I think the word "moronic" is way out of line when speaking of someone's personal beliefs.

But then again, that's just me. I tend to be rather polite for the most part and cannot understand those who can't. I personally would rather examine the whys and wherefores of belief in general rather than going after a particular aspect of another's and saying that it's "moronic".

But that's just me. So I'll go now...thank you.
Reply
post #59 of 194
10/7/02 at 12:23pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Raiders of the Lost Pox:
What blatant attacks? I've only seen people questioning these beliefs.
Two so far

Quote:
Adverb - I hope your sterile.
Quote:
Devin Updating This thread reads like it should be in the sci-fighter forum.
While perhaps not specifically an attack, at least intolerant and hypocritical because of that.
Reply
post #60 of 194
10/7/02 at 12:25pm
Ok, so what should we do with all these loonies that believe in the Bible and to some extent, beleive in the Bible as a historical document or believe in it literally?

Educate them? Offer them a better alternate belief system? Lock them in a psycho ward and throw away the key?

I mean, c'mon, beleiving in impossible scenarios like the opening of a sea or a flood that took place locally ( no where does it say that it was global). Or beleiving in something that they can't prove scientifically, but feel it inside them? Jeez, these people are very dangerous. I say lock them up. These people are an danger to society.

You can attack the veracity of the bible, you could prove wrong *every* single historical fact, you could question those who wrote it, and you could question or deny the existence of the One who inspired some of the words etc, etc.

Do all the above, but in the end, you could not discredit it's message.
Reply
post #61 of 194
10/7/02 at 12:34pm
Quote:
Devin Updating:
I can name a thousand other books with the same message. I can name hundreds of COMIC BOOKS with the same message that are more believable.

And I'm a big enough boy that I don't need a book to tell me to love one another and not to kill people.
want a cookie?
Reply
post #62 of 194
10/7/02 at 12:39pm
Actually Nelson it does say the whole earth....

Gen 7:19....

And the waters prevailed exceedingly on the earth, and all the high hills under the whole heaven were covered.

More after that supporting. The Bible is pretty clear it was the whole earth
Reply
post #63 of 194
10/7/02 at 12:45pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Devin Updating:
And cap, I'm sorry, but the stuff people believe DOES sound like fantasy to me.
Main Entry: dis·cre·tion
Pronunciation: dis-'kre-sh&n
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
1 : the quality of being discreet : CIRCUMSPECTION; especially : cautious reserve in speech

2respect
Function: transitive verb
Date: 1560
1 a : to consider worthy of high regard : ESTEEM b : to refrain from interfering with

Main Entry: tol·er·ance
Pronunciation: 'tä-l&-r&n(t)s, 'täl-r&n(t)s
Function: noun
Date: 15th century
1 : capacity to endure pain or hardship : ENDURANCE, FORTITUDE, STAMINA
2 a : sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one's own
Reply
post #64 of 194
10/7/02 at 12:54pm
Quote:
Kronos' Amber Ale:
Quote:
Raiders of the Lost Pox:
Huh? What's been out of line so far?
I'd say the blatant attacks on the literal religious beliefs of others counts as out of line.
That would be it, yes, and the slight trolling I sense.
Reply
post #65 of 194
10/7/02 at 12:55pm
Quote:
Devin Updating:
Except that I believe that this kind of belief is significantly dangerous to the human race as we know and love it in the 21st century.

The day people stop trying to teach this in schools and stop killing each other over it I'll be more circumspect in my criticism.
what you beleive is irrelevant. . .
Reply
post #66 of 194
10/7/02 at 12:58pm
Quote:
Devin Updating:
If someone thinks something is blatantly false and wrong and says so and why, that's an attack?
Because of the way you go about it. There's engaging in intellegent debate, which is the way this forum is USUALLY run, and then there's posting shit to provoke people. Like said Sci-Fighter comment. That was not an intellegent debate.
Reply
post #67 of 194
10/7/02 at 1:04pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Devin Updating:
Saying that this stuff sounds like fantasy or sci-fi is not ok?

Please detail the allowable rules of debate.
Saying that x or y sounds like sci-fi or is moronic or dangerous is not debate of any sort.
Reply
post #68 of 194
10/7/02 at 1:19pm
why don't you just go back to your political forum? it's been civilized around this forum. you come and call people moronic and then expect nothing to be said in return.

btw, since you beleive we're moronic and loonies, I think you're your intelligent by trying to have a conversation with the likes of us. i mean, the bible says trying to give wisdom to idiots is like throwing precious jewels to the swine.

let the swine roll in their mud.
Reply
post #69 of 194
10/7/02 at 1:28pm
I believe he called the beliefs moronic, not the people, and was asking them to explain why they believe what they do.

And personally, anyone who believes something without adequately exploring the reasons why they believe it are selling themselves short.
Reply
post #70 of 194
10/7/02 at 1:39pm
Quote:
Raiders of the Lost Pox:
I believe he called the beliefs moronic, not the people, and was asking them to explain why they believe what they do.

And personally, anyone who believes something without adequately exploring the reasons why they believe it are selling themselves short.
if you beleive in something moronic, you will by default be or become moronic.

and i beleive people have adequately explored the reason why they beleive what they believe in their own time and not a a message board.
Reply
post #71 of 194
10/7/02 at 1:50pm
Quote:
Devin Updating:
believe
What Devin does when he knows he's wrong.
Reply
post #72 of 194
10/7/02 at 2:12pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Devin Updating:
No, I'm right, that's how the word is spelled.

And I'm right about other things: I DO think it sounds like sci-fi and I DO think the belief is silly, outdated, and foolish.

Those are MY beliefs.
Of course they are. But don't confuse sharing your beliefs and feelings with legitimate debate and discussion. And I would believe that you believe that you are right and everyone else is wrong. That is also a legitimate belief. However, when you call all religious people foolish and irrational prepare to get some flack.
Reply
post #73 of 194
10/7/02 at 2:25pm
Quote:
Tony 'The Fist' Delpino:
Quote:
Devin Updating:
believe
What Devin does when he knows he's wrong.
What I was saying was this is what you do when you're wrong, you pick out stupid insignificant things that are moot to the matter at hand.
Reply
post #74 of 194
10/7/02 at 2:57pm
Wow, topic derailment. Could CTDeLude respond to my questions. I'm very curious about how you would answer these...

Quote:
I'm amazed that anyone can believe the things you believe in the 21st century. Do you believe in magic? Could I become a "man-witch" (mmm tasty) if I forsake God and take Satan into my heart?

There are more or less 9 million species in the world. The bible states that Noah and his family loaded the Ark up in 7 days. That?s 30 animals a second, every second, for 7 days.

How would Noah and his family keep Koala bears alive? They eat only Eucalyptus (spelling likely wrong) leaves. How would Noah even know what the different animals need? How would Noah store all that food when he doesn?t even have space for all the animals?

What about all the plant life that would die under the flood waters? Did Noah store one of every plant?

What about all the food the animals would need? Elephants, hippos, rhinoceroses, and giraffes need between 50 and 100 pounds of food a day to survive?

What about animals that live in drastically different climates (polar bears vs. lions, artic fox vs. iguanas)? Was the ark climate controlled?

How did Noah keep all the diseases from viri to worms alive without killing the animals he was trying to preserve?
Reply
post #75 of 194
10/7/02 at 3:36pm
Thread Starter 
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Adverb:
<strong>Wow, topic derailment. Could CTDeLude respond to my questions. I'm very curious about how you would answer these...</strong>

Not really because the topic wasn't Noah and the flood. I'll take a stab.

<strong>I'm amazed that anyone can believe the things you believe in the 21st century. Do you believe in magic? Could I become a "man-witch" (mmm tasty) if I forsake God and take Satan into my heart?</strong>

Don't know what the century has to do with anything but to answer your question, yes.

<strong>There are more or less 9 million species in the world. The bible states that Noah and his family loaded the Ark up in 7 days. That?s 30 animals a second, every second, for 7 days.</strong>

If you assume that species=kind then yes. However since the concept of species is an invention we do not in fact know what was meant by kind. Since I believe in evolution to a degree I could say that a kind of something was of sufficient genetic breeding stock to evolve into a variety of species. But since neither you nor I know what God meant by kind we are both guessing.

<strong>How would Noah and his family keep Koala bears alive? They eat only Eucalyptus (spelling likely wrong) leaves. How would Noah even know what the different animals need? How would Noah store all that food when he doesn?t even have space for all the animals?</strong>

You assume that koalas were extant. Noah would know because God would tell him. You are back tpo the assumption that there wasn't enough room when you don't really know how many animals there were.

<strong>What about all the plant life that would die under the flood waters? Did Noah store one of every plant?</strong>

He wasn't asked to so I'm assuming he didn't and that God provided plants. Your next question should be why didn't God do that with the animals and for that matter Noah? My answer would be, I don't know ask God.

<strong>What about all the food the animals would need? Elephants, hippos, rhinoceroses, and giraffes need between 50 and 100 pounds of food a day to survive?</strong>

Since I don't know for a fact what kinds of animals were extant and what a kind is then I couldn't tell you how much food they would need. Perhaps God caused them to sleep for the journey.

<strong>What about animals that live in drastically different climates (polar bears vs. lions, artic fox vs. iguanas)? Was the ark climate controlled?</strong>

I doubt it. Now you are being facetious.

<strong>How did Noah keep all the diseases from viri to worms alive without killing the animals he was trying to preserve?
</strong>

Again see the kinds argument in my initial paragraph.
Reply
post #76 of 194
10/7/02 at 4:12pm
Quote:
CTDeLude:
But you forget the one fact that, if it were not present, the Bible would all be moot.

God.
This is a really interesting point, I'm am curious how some of the other believers (I don't by the way) feel about this. That if you believe in God, why not take the Bible verbatim? Does one go hand in hand with the other? Can you believe in an all powerful God, yet question what He/She/It is capable of? If you truly believe God made the universe, than why would you question how He/She/It could put an ass load of animals on a boat?

I for one think this is all rather silly, and will agree with Dev (good god) that it does sound a bit like sci-fi, I don't feel that was such a horrible comparison.

CT, your level of faith is both amazing and a bit scary my man.
Reply
post #77 of 194
10/7/02 at 4:21pm
Faith can be scary to those who lack it. wink
Reply
post #78 of 194
10/7/02 at 4:23pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
otisthecat:
I for one think this is all rather silly, and will agree with Dev (good god) that it does sound a bit like sci-fi, I don't feel that was such a horrible comparison.
It's not that the comparison was a bad one, but that comment combined wit hthe all religious people are morons and the Devattitude (patent pending) is why I took offense. That and he seems to view his word as gold.

Oh and I too admire CT's faith.

As for your question, I don't know why some believers question the validity of the Bible, but then I also don't understand why some of my brethren believe that the wafer becomes the literal flesh of Christ. Go fig.
Reply
post #79 of 194
10/7/02 at 4:42pm
Quote:
beavis:
Faith can be scary to those who lack it. wink
Sheesh.
Reply
post #80 of 194
10/7/02 at 4:49pm
Quote:
Jacob Singer:
Quote:
beavis:
Faith can be scary to those who lack it. wink
Sheesh.
out of curiosity, does his statement bother you or sound pretentious?
Reply
post #81 of 194
10/7/02 at 4:55pm
Quote:
capteucalyptus (Scott Roche):
Quote:
otisthecat:
I for one think this is all rather silly, and will agree with Dev (good god) that it does sound a bit like sci-fi, I don't feel that was such a horrible comparison.
It's not that the comparison was a bad one, but that comment combined wit hthe all religious people are morons and the Devattitude (patent pending) is why I took offense. That and he seems to view his word as gold.
point taken
Reply
post #82 of 194
10/7/02 at 5:06pm
Quote:
Nelson:
out of curiosity, does his statement bother you or sound pretentious?</strong>[/QUOTE]

I could write two pages about it, but lemme just turn it around:

Common sense can be scary to those who lack it.

Scientific understanding can be scary to those who lack it.

Self-reliance can be scary to those who lack it.
---

Do those sound condescending and pretentious?
Reply
post #83 of 194
10/7/02 at 5:25pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Jacob Singer:
Quote:
Nelson:
out of curiosity, does his statement bother you or sound pretentious?
I could write two pages about it, but lemme just turn it around:

Common sense can be scary to those who lack it.

Scientific understanding can be scary to those who lack it.

Self-reliance can be scary to those who lack it.
---

Do those sound condescending and pretentious?</strong>[/QUOTE]

Don't change the truth though. wink
Reply
post #84 of 194
10/7/02 at 5:28pm
Quote:
capteucalyptus (Scott Roche):
He wasn't asked to so I'm assuming he didn't and that God provided plants. Your next question should be why didn't God do that with the animals and for that matter Noah? My answer would be, I don't know ask God.
No offense, cap, but I think it's here where we lose all pretense of having a serious discussion. As soon as the bible doesn't cover something in detail, you can counter with "I don't know. Ask God."

By the same token, when I'm met with something I can't answer, it seems much more logical to answer with a simple "I don't know." From there, I can do research and hypothesize instead of relying on the faith that it's been taken care of. Faith seems sort of like an excuse for laziness in this respect.

Quote:
<strong>What about animals that live in drastically different climates (polar bears vs. lions, artic fox vs. iguanas)? Was the ark climate controlled?</strong>

I doubt it. Now you are being facetious.
While the last question was probably partially facetious, the issue seems pretty important to the concept of the ark. Every animal requires certain things to survive.

The follow-up about carnivores is even a bigger deal. Even if God protected the animals and made the cats not eat the mice, the tigers not eat the lambs, the lions not eat the koalas, what the heck happens after the ride's over? Where does the food for the carnivores come from?
Reply
post #85 of 194
10/7/02 at 5:30pm
Quote:
Jacob Singer:
Quote:
Nelson:
out of curiosity, does his statement bother you or sound pretentious?
I could write two pages about it, but lemme just turn it around:

Common sense can be scary to those who lack it.

Scientific understanding can be scary to those who lack it.

Self-reliance can be scary to those who lack it.
---

Do those sound condescending and pretentious?</strong>[/QUOTE]

i doubted he meant to sound pretentious, if in fact it comes across pretentious.

but in all honesty, and no rudeness implied, but...

...why should you care? Does it matter to you if it is said in a condescending way?

I mean, example, if someone told me I had no taste in comics, I really wouldn't care 'cause comics aren't my cup of tea. you could bash me and say i'm illeteriate when it comes to comics and I wouldn't feel anything because they mean nothing to me in the first place.

the reason i'm asking is because, and please correct me, these religious themes/debates/topics *seem* to mean something personal to you. 'cause I doubted you would take offense at something that doesn't mean anything to you or something that you don't beleive in.

You can say: "Scientific understanding can be scary to those who lack it," and it doesn't mean jack to me because I really don't care what is proveable by science and what is not.

If I were offended by "Scientific understanding can be scary to those who lack it," to me, it's the equivalent of being snubbed by a hooker and feeling rejected. When in the first place, I don't care about her. Sorry for the anaology, but it's one I see happening to guys in bars and it becomes somewhat quirky after a while.
Reply
post #86 of 194
10/7/02 at 5:41pm
I think it's taken as a putdown, since we know it's MEANT as a put down.

Whether I'm a believer or not, I know the person who said it was. While we all have our ideas about what "faith" is, there's little dispute over what "scared" is - it has a negative connotation.

It's admittedly less heated than Devin calling you ignorant for essentially not grasping why you should be a non-believer, but it's the same concept.
Reply
post #87 of 194
10/7/02 at 5:45pm
Thread Starter 
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DaveBs for the Deaf:
<strong>[QUOTE]No offense, cap, but I think it's here where we lose all pretense of having a serious discussion. As soon as the bible doesn't cover something in detail, you can counter with "I don't know. Ask God."</strong>

No offense taken. Of course you realize he did ask to explain the unexplainable. It's not a counter but look below for more.

<strong>By the same token, when I'm met with something I can't answer, it seems much more logical to answer with a simple "I don't know." From there, I can do research and hypothesize instead of relying on the faith that it's been taken care of. Faith seems sort of like an excuse for laziness in this respect. </strong>

Not laziness at all Dave. See, I believe that there are things that will never be explained, things humanity will never know the answer to. That doesn't mean that we should stop looking, just that we shouldn't be arrogant. This business of, "If you can't explain your religious belifs in a rational manner then I refuse to believe in it." is silly on its face. I believe in a being that neither you nor I could hope to comprehend. Thankfully He has chosen to reveal Himself in some fashion. And that's sufficient to me. That I can't make you see something wonderful that He's done simply because it doesn't make any sense to your scientific, rational mind is a bit sad to me. Some things you do have to accept on faith.

<strong>While the last question was probably partially facetious, the issue seems pretty important to the concept of the ark. Every animal requires certain things to survive.

The follow-up about carnivores is even a bigger deal. Even if God protected the animals and made the cats not eat the mice, the tigers not eat the lambs, the lions not eat the koalas, what the heck happens after the ride's over? Where does the food for the carnivores come from?</strong>

Not important at all. If God can create the entire universe merely by speaking it into being then the ark is no problem. You may see it as intellectual laziness. That's fine. I see it as faith in something more majestic than science will ever be. Why did God choose to do things the way He did? Again I caouldn't say. Sorry we can't have a "serious discussion" about it. I for one think people have been having very serious discussions about it for hundreds of years so I don't see why we can't but have it your way I guess.
Reply
post #88 of 194
10/7/02 at 5:50pm
You accidentally got to the crux of the matter:

You don't care what someone you disagree with thinks.

You dismiss anyone who doesn't share your views as being irrelevant. You don't discuss issues with an open mind, thinking you might learn something from the other side.

But to me, when someone opines that I "lack" something, in this case 'faith', and that that "lack" inhibits my ability to discuss an issue, of course I take it personally.
Reply
post #89 of 194
10/7/02 at 5:50pm
Thread Starter 
Originally posted by DaveBs for the Deaf:
<strong>I think it's taken as a putdown, since we know it's MEANT as a put down.</strong>

You know no such thing.

<strong>Whether I'm a believer or not, I know the person who said it was. While we all have our ideas about what "faith" is, there's little dispute over what "scared" is - it has a negative connotation.</strong>

And the one who brought up being scared was the person who said:
Quote:
CT, your level of faith is both amazing and a bit scary my man.
<strong> admittedly less heated than Devin calling you ignorant for essentially not grasping why you should be a non-believer, but it's the same concept.</strong>

Not really. A non-believer doesn't have faith and the faith of Christians is very scary to those who have none.
Reply
post #90 of 194
10/7/02 at 5:53pm
Quote:
capteucalyptus (Scott Roche):
A non-believer doesn't have faith and the faith of Christians is very scary to those who have none.
Wrong. The zealotry of christians is scary to those of us without "faith".

I love how non-believers have no "faith", like we're missing some natural appendage all the the believers have.
Reply
post #91 of 194
10/7/02 at 5:57pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Jacob Singer:
Quote:
capteucalyptus (Scott Roche):
A non-believer doesn't have faith and the faith of Christians is very scary to those who have none.
Wrong. The zealotry of christians is scary to those of us without "faith".

I love how non-believers have no "faith", like we're missing some natural appendage all the the believers have.
The source of that zealotry is faith. And you don't haver faith in God (do you?). Just so you know I didn't have it either until it was given to me. It is like a natural appendage. Unfortunately because of the Fall it has to be grafted back on. I'm not trying to say that because we have faith we are "better" than you somehow, just different that's all.
Reply
post #92 of 194
10/7/02 at 6:00pm
Quote:
otisthecat:

CT, your level of faith is both amazing and a bit scary my man.
Welp I never said people would love what I say.

But it comes down to a very personal thing to me. I have seen the trials of life, I am facing them even now. But through it all I have never found a substantial reason to doubt God. I guess I could think of it as the gift of perseverance. But because of that I react to what is spoken of my faith quite strongly. Granted I cannot expect everyone to understand or even pretend to like it. But I still press on. the guy Adverb has been far from the first to speak such words like he did against me. And he will be far from the last. I just have to continue forward seeking what I believe, feel, and know to be right. I'm not here to be put down but often am put down. Thats fine. My security is not based on the words or thoughts of others but of what God thinks of me. And in the midst of such put downs somehow bridges can be formed. I admire Voltes a lot. he is an incredible man and am glad that he and I have come to a sort of understanding between each other. If there was a perfect example of how things can be spoken of and debated it would be Voltes.

Otis you are a great guy yourself. Though you poke at me you are also and equal oppurtunity poker. You're funny and I have been honored by the times you had come to my defense when in no way you needed to.

I don't have to post in this forum. There is nothing holding me to it nor am I obliged in anyway to defend my faith. But I see that all the same there are questions asked here and I believe I can answer them to the best of my ability. If people chose not to accept it simply on the basis as I use the Bible then so be it. If I use the basis of God and they don't accept then so be it. Those are personal issues for themselves as well.

Yea I can get down when i look at the number of people riding all over me putting me down left and right. But yet in some way they are still good people. I just hope that one day I can find that good for everyone to enjoy.
Reply
post #93 of 194
10/7/02 at 6:05pm
Quote:
CTDeLude:
Yea I can get down when i look at the number of people riding all over me putting me down left and right. But yet in some way they are still good people. I just hope that one day I can find that good for everyone to enjoy.
Trust me CT, being an atheist in the South is no picnic, either.
Reply
post #94 of 194
10/7/02 at 6:18pm
Quote:
capteucalyptus (Scott Roche):
I'm not trying to say that because we have faith we are "better" than you somehow, just different that's all.
You'd be surprised at how it sounds sometimes on the other side. I imagine it's akin to being called a moron by Devin for believing in something that can't be proven by science.

Incidentally, when I said "I think it's taken as a putdown, since we know it's MEANT as a put down," I didn't mean to imply I knew beavis' exact intentions, but the way he phrased it, regardless of his true intentions, it is a put down:

He has faith, therefore he is not scared of it.
I do not have faith, thus I am scared of it (sure, you can qualify it with a "can be," but the intent is clear from the context). The phrase is a putdown because of WHO it comes from - a non-believer saying this would not have the same weight. As cowardice is a negative emotion, he is implying something negative about me because of my lack of faith.

As for your earlier post:
Quote:
Some things you do have to accept on faith.
Perhaps. But I refuse to accept ALL things on faith.

Again, I'll reiterate: the faith of Christians is no more scary to me than I suspect the faith of Jews is to Christians. If someone else's faith scares you, you're probably very insecure, no matter what your (non-)beliefs.
Reply
post #95 of 194
10/7/02 at 6:24pm
Quote:
Jacob Singer:
You accidentally got to the crux of the matter:

You don't care what someone you disagree with thinks.

You dismiss anyone who doesn't share your views as being irrelevant. You don't discuss issues with an open mind, thinking you might learn something from the other side.

But to me, when someone opines that I "lack" something, in this case 'faith', and that that "lack" inhibits my ability to discuss an issue, of course I take it personally.
the reason i dismiss people who don't share my views as you put it "irrelevant" is that WE ARE NOT ON THE SAME PAGE. Discussion like these are never fruitful because a convinced side is trying to convince another side that is already convinced. it is fruitless.

Now, if you harbor doubts, and not assertions, then a certain debate can take place. even then, most of the time, it useless.

you want proof... I got my own kind of proof as to why i believe what i believe. my proof isn't good enough for you. you want physical proof. i can't give it to you. so...

...we can co-exist confortably, but debating issues like these is f-r-u-i-t-l-e-s-s.

oh, and one other reason I don't care what someone that disgrees with me thinks (I'll hear you out andd that's about it), is that i'm convince of what i believe in, and there is nothing you can say or do that will change my ideas/beliefs because i've been through a lot and the experience the alternative, and it isn't any better. that's my expeience.
Reply
post #96 of 194
10/7/02 at 6:52pm
Well, just to be clear, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. This is a thread about biblical literalism, and until my last couple of posts I've stuck to asking simple questions about what people believe.

But I'm happy for you that you already have all the answers, and no one else on the planet is smarter than you or has information or experiences that you don't already have. Must be nice to be so wise at such a tender age...

Reply
post #97 of 194
10/7/02 at 7:12pm
Quote:
Jacob Singer:
Quote:
CTDeLude:
Yea I can get down when i look at the number of people riding all over me putting me down left and right. But yet in some way they are still good people. I just hope that one day I can find that good for everyone to enjoy.
Trust me CT, being an atheist in the South is no picnic, either.
Try being a Christian Republican in San Francisco.

"Get the rope!"
Reply
post #98 of 194
10/7/02 at 7:49pm
I'm noticing a lot of people slamming Devin in this thread. Guys, I've been around a while to know when Devin gets out of hand, and this is not one of those times. Devin is being VERY civil and VERY organized in his comments. So, cut the guy some slack, will ya?

This is a religious forum dedicated to the DEBATE of religious arguments and beliefs. Devin, Jacob, and others including myself are debating beliefs, as the intention of this thread. We are not attacking anyone personally, and if you seriously think we are, go grab your blanket, find yourself a corner to sit in, and proceed with sucking your thumb and crying yourself to sleep. We are DEBATING beliefs, which includes out beliefs. If Devin believes religion is moronic and wrong, he has every right to say so in this thread as ANY ONE of you has to say the opposite. "Beliefs" range beyond just the belief in God and the Bible. There are other beliefs too, which include the belief AGAINST religion. That is a reasonable belief... so stop your crying. Don’t say someone is "stepping out of line" just because their beliefs conflict with your own. Well, as long as they don't get too personal.

Acceptable Example:
"It is my belief that religion and the Bible are full of horse shit."

Not-Acceptable Example:
"It is my belief that Agent 86 is a giant walking, talking penis that fires cum at anyone he comes into contact with."



Understand now?
Reply
post #99 of 194
10/7/02 at 7:52pm
Quote:
Jacob Singer:
Well, just to be clear, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. This is a thread about biblical literalism, and until my last couple of posts I've stuck to asking simple questions about what people believe.

But I'm happy for you that you already have all the answers, and no one else on the planet is smarter than you or has information or experiences that you don't already have. Must be nice to be so wise at such a tender age...
i don't call going on 31 a tender age. i don't claim to have all the answers. No one does. i'm satisfied in knowing that i don't have all the answers and life can go on without them, and i try and do good with what i know and have.
Reply
post #100 of 194
10/7/02 at 7:58pm
Quote:
Cheese Biscuits
[QB]I'm noticing a lot of people slamming Devin in this thread. Guys, I've been around a while to know when Devin gets out of hand, and this is not one of those times. Devin is being VERY civil and VERY organized in his comments. So, cut the guy some slack, will ya?/[QB]
should we give him a medal for being civil? i mean, should we give credit for something that your suppose to do (like being civil and respectful towards other people's opinions)? You don't catch me saying "athesim is empty" nor bragging about the fact that i don't say it and expecting some slack.
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Religion A-Z
CHUD.com Community › Forums › POLITICS & RELIGION › Religion A-Z › Biblical Literalism