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Being Catholic

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
A little background: I was baptized Catholic but raised Presbyterian. Both of my late mother's brothers are priests, although one of them left the order. I was not really aware of my religion until I started high school, where I attended a Jesuit private school. Religion and faith were a large part of the life there, and I guess you could say I became a convert to Catholicism, even contemplating becoming a priest.

At NYU, many of my friends are athiests/agnostics and since graduating, I had not been to Mass. But it seems that the lack of spiritual life here has made me crave it. The kicker came tonight when my roomate and I were watching the Practice. The Michael Badelluco character was complaining to Reggie about how he was sick and tired of hearing all the "anti-Catholic rhetoric" in the news today and the like. I was like "Hell, yes!" and my roomie immediatly started berating me because of it, saying that I wasn't Catholic because I curse all the time. This upset me and I told him so. A few minutes later, he started talking about how all religion was flawed and used the phrase "the worst thing that happened to humanity." To put it mildly, I wanted to punch him in the face.

I find it funny that I was so offended. Normally, that stuff doesn't get to me, but what he said and the tone he said it in really upset me and I was angry.

Anyway, I'm wondering if any of you are Catholic, or were raised Catholic, and what being a Catholic means to you, and what you think of the anti-Catholic rhetoric in the news and the opinion that we are either "super pious" or conspiritorical.

By the way, I think that what has been going on in the Church is WRONG, PLAIN WRONG. In all capitals...but it makes me sad more than angry. Angry at first, yes, but then sad. Sad for the Church, and sad for all the good that is being obscured. Anyway, that's my little rant/question/discussion.
post #2 of 18
You're not...catholic...because...you curse.

I probably shouldn't even bother trying to explain to him that taking the Lord's name in vain does not mean you say "Jeesy Kreesy!" shen you stub your toe....

I was born and raised catholic, went to a jesuit prep school, but due to weirdness, don't remember any of it, directly. I'm non-denominational, now...I have a thing against certain beliefs in catholocism, specificly, and rituals in general (making it hard for me to attend any kind of services except to observe), but that's a personal thing (and choice), and I certainly don't hold anything against a person because of their faith.
post #3 of 18
I'm Catholic, and proud of it.

Don't really like discussing faith too much, though... as I see it as a very personal/individual thing (even though I do openly share my faith, beliefs, and values with my immediate family).

But if you're Catholic too one bit of advice: Grow some thick skin and/or just ignore the anti-Catholicism.
post #4 of 18
Heh...just like being Protestant. Grow thick skin and learn your beliefs.

Now you know Rath why we react the way we do when certain people speak out against our faith in such a way.

And I can only imagine what it is like for you being at such a school like NYU. Must be like being at Berkely here.
post #5 of 18
Quote:
To put it mildly, I wanted to punch him in the face.
The best way is to punch 'em in the neck. They don't expect it and it actually hurts worse.
post #6 of 18
You're in college, it will pass. You're going to have to learn tolerance for the nuts, as you've got four more years with him. People argue all kind of stuff that doesn't make sense in college. That's why its college.

Look on the bright side, at least he didn't say that God was dead.
post #7 of 18
Quote:
Lawyers, Guns, And RathBandu

he was sick and tired of hearing all the "anti-Catholic rhetoric" in the news today and the like. I was like "Hell, yes!" and my roomie immediatly started berating me because of it, saying that I wasn't Catholic because I curse all the time. This upset me and I told him so. A few minutes later, he started talking about how all religion was flawed and used the phrase "the worst thing that happened to humanity." To put it mildly, I wanted to punch him in the face.

Anyway, I'm wondering if any of you are Catholic, or were raised Catholic, and what being a Catholic means to you, and what you think of the anti-Catholic rhetoric in the news and the opinion that we are either "super pious" or conspiritorical.
I was baptized Catholic, but because the priest was an asshole (my mom's words), I didn't attend Sunday school, church, or become confirmed. I also dated a Catholic for 6 years and the community I grew up in was largely Catholic.

First off, your roomie is a jackass; I have DEFINITE opinions on organized religion (specifically Catholicism), but try to not dump them on people out of the blue. And I wouldn't berate someone for their faith, either (maybe for being a mindless lemming when it comes to their faith, but not for the faith per se).

Secondly, you "curse" so you're not Catholic? LOL. I did MANY "un-Catholic" things with the girl I dated, and so far as I know, SHE was still Catholic. And since he's so anti-Catholic, what the fuck does he know about it anyway?

Thirdly, and this is getting into my views on organized religion, the issues in the Church right now are why I'm against organized religion on a large level. The phrase "power corrupts" isn't just a tired old saw; and I DO see many good things coming from faith and religion on a smaller, community level, I think putting the control of souls into the hands of a hierarchy that, like all powerful entities, is at least somewhat concerned with keeping its power, is generally a bad thing.

Hope that last sentence wasn't too baffling; anyone here know how to edit? wink
post #8 of 18
Well, just as there are many religious zealots who will try to shove their religion down your throught, there are just as many anti-religious zealots out there, who will try and shove their ideas down your throats.

Personally, I don't believe in organized religion, but to discount all the good that comes from it is silly. People suffer from the need to be right. And with religion there is no possible way to right. So those who are the least secure with their own identities adopt their religious stance as one.
post #9 of 18
Quote:
sidey22:
Religion is the practice of rituals and the like based on faith.
If you already have the faith part down what is the point of the ritual? If you truly believe what you say you do would your god really care if you went to church on a regular basis and hosted raffles and bake sales? Why not just be happy with what you think is true and leave it at that? Can you not pray on your own time and still be considered a good Catholic? Rituals seem to be a means of keeping order and making people feel they are actively particpating in something not praising god.
post #10 of 18
Nice post sidey, pretty much what I already thought, just wanted to see what you had to say on the matter.
post #11 of 18
Quote:
sidey22
However I go to Mass because I enjoy the format of the Mass, the prayers used, the priest sometimes has something good to say about the Gospel reading that will make me think about it in a different way and the feeling of being with others who share my desire to praise God is a great feeling.

This isn't a rare concept.. people go to bars all the time to drink, when they could just open a bottle at home.. They go to socialize and connect with others..
I'm thinking you don't often see this comparison made in Church literature...."al-Cathol-holics" wink

(Note to sidey: I completely understood your point, I just find using social drinking to illustrate the appeal of Mass to be an amusing concept).
post #12 of 18
Got a great Catholic joke for all.

And, well, being an Irish-Italian-French Catholic born in Germany I figure I have every right to share such a joke. Anyway...

What's the difference between a Catholic wedding and a Catholic funeral?
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One less drunk.

wink
post #13 of 18
Thread Starter 
I love that joke.
post #14 of 18
I'm Catholic, born and raised.

And Rath, I'm in the same situation as you: haven't been to Mass in a while, I curse, I'm surrounded by lots who are not of my faith. College is a hectic life and when you sort it all out (something I haven't done yet, either) your faith will fall into place.
post #15 of 18
"To truly understand something you have to experience it for yourself."

Tell your roomie that he should experience your religion for a while before making such a stupid judgement.
post #16 of 18
Quote:
billylove is a dumb arse.
[QB]"To truly understand something you have to experience it for yourself."[QB]
No offense, billylove, but that is so fucking stupid. I don't really need to shoot myself in the foot to understand it, do I.

Rath's roommate shouldn't have to go Catholic just to better understand Rath's religion. He should just pick up a fucking book and learn to read. Oberlin's pretty strong in athiests/agnostics (shit, I fall into the later category), but the people who need to get punched are those who go around and try and deride the religions of others. I don't like organized religion, but those who attempt to deride the religions of others are trying to build a following themselves. I hope you find time to get to Mass.
post #17 of 18
Quote:
Matt Goldberg:
Quote:
billylove is a dumb arse.
[QB]"To truly understand something you have to experience it for yourself."[QB]
No offense, billylove, but that is so fucking stupid. I don't really need to shoot myself in the foot to understand it, do I.
Of course you don't have to shoot yourself in the foot to know that it will hurt like a bitch. What I was trying to say is that this guy made a rash judgement based on what he had heard about Catholics and put it on all religion.

Of course it could have been more than a rash judgement, but could have been based on past experiences with organized religion, etc.
post #18 of 18
I was raised a Catholic, Rath. I attended Catholic school through the eighth grade. I was an altar boy as a child, and my first professional dream was, like many others, of joining the priesthood.

It's been a long, long time since I've been a practicing Catholic. In the years since, I have studied Buddhism and various New Agey-Wiccan type practices, and even pursued a conversion to Judaism (as you might suspect, a chick was involved) but through most of that time, have lived as a pretty firmly agnostic individual. (The advantages to Buddhism and Wicca to someone like myself being that, whatever other mushy-headed notions they might encompass, there was no requirement to believe in an actual deity, and in Judaism there was always way more fuss over things like dietary restrictions and foreskin to actually even care whether you believed in the God who was supposedly handing out these rules.)

Today, I would describe my religious stance as straddling the line between pure agnosticism and a Deism sort of along the lines of the religious beliefs of Jefferson and Aristotle. I do believe in a God that created the universe. And I do pray, though I'm not very hopeful that my prayers are actually heard. I'm even open to the concept that there may be something beyond this life, though I'm quite leery of the Hallmark card ways it is usually presented. Beyond that, with regard to most religious claims, I am about as skeptical as I am with regard to tales of sprites and faeries or big foot monsters that lurk beyond the grasp of zoologists or that aliens are visiting us regularly or that the stars are an appropriate medium for predicting the future. In other words, COMPLETELY skeptical.

But, still....

I think on some levels, if you were once a Catholic, you will always BE a Catholic. Like alcoholism, I don't think it is something you can just wake up from one day, but rather a deep-seated disposition that sticks with you all your life.

And unlike alcoholism, I'd say this is, on balance, a good thing.

I am by no means an apologist for the entire history of the Catholic Church, and I think there is no question that it has, over two milennia, wrought much havoc in the world. The Crusades, the Inquisition, the purges of the Counter Reformation -- all are ugly chapters in the history of Catholicism.

But I think, by the same token, we must compare such episodes in contrast with what would have happened had Catholicism NOT prospered. Were the Christian Romans any more vicious than their pagan forebears? Absolutely not. Were the Crusades any less bloody than the Mongol hordes or the secular Blitzkrieg? Again, no. Man is a complex animal, capable of much viciousness, and no large institution of man, be it church or state, is immune from the folly of those that compose it.

But Catholicism HAS brought about two ideals that have come to be prized for which I think the world is forever indebted to it. The first is the concept of reason and rational inquiry as being part and parcel of religious the religious experience. It is through the church that scholarship -- including scholarship of some voices, like Aristotle, which would seem quite hostile to its very foundation -- was able to be preserved through the long, dark days of the Middle Ages. Without the prolific copying and archiving of invaluable works of philosophy, poetry, drama and literature by the church elders, there may never have been a new Age of Enlightenment to bring us to the treasures we enjoy today.

Further, through the thoughts of such esteemed Catholic saints as Aquinas, Augustin, and Thomas Moore, we have the foundations of liberal western philosophy that regards logic as a science and science, itself, as a virtue. Undoubtedly the church has had its days of difficulty with some scientific discoveries -- notably Gallileo, Copernicus, Darwin, et al -- as have all Christian faiths. But I think it is this deep-seated commitment to logic and reason that have allowed it to, EVENTUALLY, come to grips with each new discovery as a PART of God's plan, rather than ONLY being able to view them, forever and for always, as an alien doctrine that must be the spawn of Satan. It heartens me that John Paul II is able to endorse the Theory of Evolution as established fact in an age when so many American Christians unfortunately still crave the days of the Flat Earth Society.

The other important idea that I believe has been brought to the world is one that many might question, on its face, because it tends to seem contradictory to the stern nature of Catholic dogma. And it might very well be, but I still regard it as a vital part of Catholic CULTURE. That is, the idea that pleasure, itself, is a good.

For all the fire and brimstone of the Church, one thing cannot be denied about those nations that embrace Catholicism compared to those who have followed Luther's protest -- the Catholics know how to have a better time. Wine, food, song, dancing, art, sport. These have all long been as much prized as the ultimate experiences in life in Catholic countries as they are demonized as the works of Satan in Protestant countries. Whatever the hang-ups of Catholic clergy, there has never been a movement toward puritanism among lay Catholics. In the Protestant faiths, virtually the exact opposite is true.

So, yeah, Rath, I hear what you're saying, and I, too, tend to feel that twinge of offense when I hear excessive Catholic-bashing, and particularly bashing of John Paul II, who I regard as the man of the century. The fact that I came into the church as a child around the same time as his ascension to the papacy probably has quite a lot to do with how my outlook on life evolved. Among my earliest memories are watching in class a much more sprightly John Paul than we see today standing up to the Communists and praising Lech Walesa and the Solidarity movement.

I remember learning about the first saint that he canonized, St. Martin Kolbe, a Polish priest who was martyred at Auschwitz, who counseled those with substance abuse problems, and who agitated, contrary to the Church's official position at the time, for use of Radio Vatican to broadcast the message of the horrors the Germans were perpetuating. He was named patron saint of journalists, drug addicts, and political dissidents. Over the course of my life, I've had occasion to call myself all three.

I learned from his teachings that we should be tolerant of other faiths and especially do anything in our power to help the Jews where they are oppressed, for they were Jesus' people (I later took this to mean helping them with excellent cunnilingus skills, which is probably not what he had in mind, but we each do what we can.)

I learned from him that we should always seek peace, and be wary of those who call for war.I learned from him that ultimate forgiveness is possible. He could even forgive the man who tried to kill him.

He taught that is possible to both be a man of peace, and a man of strength. There have been very few to follow in those footsteps, unfortunately. These have been among the most important lessons in my life, and I find them ever more important in the uncertain days we face today.

So, yeah, though the division between myself and the church's teachings on so many issues is still as strong as it ever was, I guess it comes down to this.

No matter what I do, where I go, what I ultimately believe, on some level, I'm still a Catholic. Always have been, always will be.
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