Wasted Potential

Evolution. Sweet god, the possibilites....

What Lies Beneath
Godzilla
ID4 (why does everyone fucking wimp out on the invading aliens scenario? If aliens invade, we're toast. SHOW IT!)

Reign of Fire (apparently, I didn't see it)
Eight Legged Freaks (while it didn't suck it too could have been so much more)
Gotta echo the Hollowman thing. When he got out why go back?????

What do you call the first two-thirds of the movie???

A piece of shit. Oh wait, that goes for the last third as well (particularly the last third).

The One

I like Jet Li, Delroy Lindo and Jason Statham. The idea of multiple universes containing many different versions of ourselves is interesting. The idea of a serial killer hunting down his other selves is a great start.

...and not a BIT of it worked.

I'll go to the mat for ID4 any day of the week. It set out to be a big, loud, crowd-pleasing film and nailed it.

See, I'm not a big fan of this whole "wasted potential" argument, because a lot of times in descends into complaining why a filmmaker didn't make their film the way you wanted. You hear it a lot with the Star Wars prequels -- sixteen years of fan boy imaginings are being dashed by Lucas, and some people can't seem to accept the fact that the man who created the whole thing might see things differently than them.

So to me, to say "I didn't like ID4 because the humans win in the end and we shouldn't" is to overlook the story the filmmakers did tell.

Poxy, I'm with you on the ID4 thing. Huge fan.

I don't hate ID4 because of wasted potential but because I think that while not bad in the acting or FX department, it is poorly directed (not one of the big action sequences worked for me), ridden with blatant steals from other movies and poor attempts at humor, and above all because while trying to tackle the subject seriously, there are just too many off moments. What did Emmerich and Devlin thought when they decided to focus on a dog being saved when thousands of people are dying? Plus, I while I can endure patriotism, the film is just filled with too much of it (the president's speech is one of the single worst moments in film history) and I find the film insulting in its depiction of other countries. Still, it's an hilarious movie when viewed with the right frame of mind, which is much more than I can say for Godzilla or The Patriot.

Poxy it's interesting you mention the PT, because I was going to mention it. Hey, some of you enjoy it, I find them (so far) incredibly tedious.

Star Trek: TMP definitely though beolngs in this category.

Boogie Nights, if only because anyone who makes a movie in the porn indisttry aftwards is going to be compared to it.

While I agree with Poxy's view, MIB2, Evolution, and Gone In Sixty Seconds all had enough potential to be good, but they weren't. Especially MIB2, being as though I love the first one, I was very upset with the mediocre sequel.

I hate ID4 simply because it's an insult to the audience's intelligence. Alice's point (I think)isn't "they didn't make it the way I wanted, with the aliens winning", but simply that the alien invasion wasn't believable. If you're going to have humans triumph in that kind of situation, you're going to have to think of one hell of a great solution. Which, to be honest, I think we could do if our backs were to the wall. But ID4 has us winning because the aliens are idiots and leave needless openings for the humans to destroy them, plus the laws of physics bend over to obey the screenwriter.

I do think the first 1/3 is quite spectacular and evocative, but then the movie pretty much reveals that it's got nothing.

Incidentally, I hear Greg Bear's "The Forge of God", which is being adapted into a movie, posits the same kind of scenario, only intelligently done.

The One was one of the best American made martial art films in a long time. I mean this purely from a visual perspective, all american movies are edited to shit (Close-Ups, cuts etc) when it comes to fight scenes. Look at Kiss of the Dragon were they almost got it right (The last fight between brothers) but again shot too close.

The One on the other hand did full on scenes without the editing and cutting, and the last fight between Jet Li and, well Jet Li. Is one of the best shot fight scenes in along time, and thats considering they used Digital Faces and Stuntdoubles and it still comes out better then most the crap out there. Maybe Blade 2 comes close, the last fight between Nomak and Blade was great.

I loved The One and wish more American Martial Art films would be more like it. However I dont see why everyone hates on it cant you enjoy a good thing when you see it. Even if it sucks it's better to have The One then say, any one of the thousand's of teen movie crap we are handed. I also think The Matrix is one of the most overhyped films EVER and hate the fact that people always say "It's like the matrix" whenever they see something that was done in HK cinema years before The Matrix.

ID4 I love and will always love ever since opening night. The shot of The Empire State building right before it blows (The Silence leading up to the WHOOOOSH) to smithereens is priceless. I can see alot of problems with ID4 in a critical light but sometime you just have too suck up and like what YOU like. I know the reason they could hook up a Powerbook to the alien ship it is because they had 40 years to learn how to plug it in so when the mother ship came around it was a peice of cake. All Space aliens use USB 2.0 anyways.

ID4...

I should clarify my objections here. To a certain extent, my dislike of this movie carries baggage, and you deserve to know what it is.

There is, in my opinion, a Golden Movie, with the fate of the whole earth in the balance against a pitiless, evil force utterly devoid of all the values that human beings embrace. Where the stakes for losing are so huge that none will escape terrifying consequences. And it is the Aliens Invade movie. And it has a premise so fraught with action, philosophy, heroism and violence that no-one could turn it down.

In this Golden Movie, the Aliens Invade. They kick ass in numerous, horrifying, spectacular ways. But in the very last days, when all hope seems lost, a plucky, global band of smart people, heroic people, lucky people, and the odd crazy person get together and come up with a way to defeat them that is so cunning, so ingenious, and so devastating, that the aliens find themselves on the receiving end of asskicking and either die or fuck off to somewhere a bit less complicated.

Nobody has made the Golden Movie yet, but in all fairness, I've still not finished writing it. They begin movies in a way that makes me think that this might be it, then lose cojones and go all sappy gooey on me. They fill it with dumb humour, manufactured angst, and throw in some hard-bitten military types who have their own weapons turned against them. The denouement is dumb, or defies the laws of logic. It creates the impression that humanity survives because that's the way it should be.

In the Golden Movie, humanity should *die*, but it doesn't. It pulls its finger out in spectacularly cunning and brave ways.

I'm mad at ID4, (and V, which likewise had a chilling beginning and a sappy denouement, or at least that's how I remember it when I was a kid) because they set up this fantastic premise but don't have the balls to go all the way with it. To me, crazy as it sounds, the best Aliens Invade denouement is still the anti-climax in War of the Worlds, when the aliens all catch colds and die. THAT at least made sense.

I don't object to ID4 as a piece of Americana. It's an American movie made for Americans, and they can patronise other countries all they want if they are paying for it. I'm sure other countries are just as happy to return the favour, and do.

I don't object to it specifically for its clunky setpieces, self-congratulatory humor attempts, and ludicrous tearjerking. Loads of movies fall victim to that. I actually LIKE some of them.

I certainly don't object to humanity winning. A movie where they don't would simply be too depressing to watch. Humanity DOES win in the Golden Movie. But they have to WORK for it.

My specific objection to it is that with the effects, design, and budget it had, it could have been the Golden Movie, but wasn't. To me, that's wasted potential.

If you reply that I'm just mad because it wasn't the movie I thought they should have made, then you're on the money. That's exactly why I'm mad. And you should be mad too, because the Golden Movie kicks ass and takes names. I guess we've got it still to come.

Once I finish writing it.

We liked "ID4" for what it was, and even "V" wasn't terrible (until they made that TERIBLE television show with the recycled movie footage to save $$$ on effects shots).

The box office success of this entire summer was all about 'comfort food.' Everything familiar did great (MIB, Scooby, Goldmember) and everything risky was mostly shunned.

But we don't like wasted potential, either. If a director's 'vision' of a film is to do what everyone else has already done but with newer effects and JUST to put his/her name on it, it's usually crap. Almost everything by Joel Schumacher since "Flatliners", for example...

Is it THAT hard to come up with an original script nowadays, or is it just not worth the effort?! Even Shyamalan puts an original spin on everything he does, and whether there are holes in the plot or not, at least it's not the same 'ol thing. Nothing is worse in our minds than a lazy, unoriginal script for what's supposed to be an engaging, edge-of-your-seat thriller, because when you're Undead, you truly HAVE almost seen it all.

Highlander has never been made right. The first ne came close, but after that... well, you guys all know. I love the idea behind these movies (Highlander 2 isn't a movie... it's a bad acid trip) and I wish they could make another and get it right.

For me, Mars Attacks is Burton's Gremlins 2. Fantastic self-indulgent movie that, in my opinion, is utterly underrated.

Mission to Mars was a waste.

Thank God for that. I thought I was alone in my love for Mars Attacks. The Gremlins 2 comparison is spot-on.

For me, the biggest wasted potential in living memory is Ghostbusters 2. That deserved so much more than just a lazy retread of the first movie. Criminal.

The Undead LOVE "Mars Attacks." And you're dead-on about "Ghostbusters 2." They couldn't even put the right sound effects to the the same equipment used in the first film.

(snippet from transcript of secret tape of Ivan Reitman's "Ghostbusters 2" pre-production meeting - Ivan: "... and it'll have someone dressed in drag, we'll add elements from the better-plotted hit cartoon show with no explanation as to why, and it's just gotta have something like a giant Stay Puft walking through New York again..." Lackey: "What about a gargantuan single-celled alien organism that kills innocents by the thousands?" Ivan: "Hey! That sounds like a great idea for a NEW comedy... think I could get that X-files guy to star in it?")

I love Mars Attacks deeply as well. Funny to note how the film was ill-received in the US while it was a major critical and financial success in Europe.

Since I haven't answered directly to the topic I'd have to go with Deep Impact. The idea of telling a "meteor hits earth" story from the point of view of the people waiting for the tragedy to happen is a good one, but it was treated with such an overdose of sappy emotional moments that it killed all its potential within the first half-hour. Add to that 5 minutes of destruction obviously tacked on to have some action to offer because another asteroid movie was coming and you have a nice big flop on your hands.

I like Mars Attacks a lot, but Gremlins 2 is about ten times better.

It's a lil old, but DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER. They shoot their wad with the revenge aspect in 6 minutes, and it's off-putting to see him be so casual about bedding the girls after that whole thing.

I agree with Chowyunfrag's view on The One.. I don't understand the hate. I liked it, and find it to be Li's best American work. The end fight is awesome, and I respect the amout of time they took on filming it, because it looks damn good. Damn the up close camera angles in action movies, damn them!

Potential is in the eye of the beholder. I too have a soft spot for ID4. Yes it was corny, contrived, mawkish, sappy and shallow, but dammitt, that doesn't make it a lousy movie. A movie being good and entertaining are not always together. One can exist without the other.

Raging Bull- A good movie yes, to me, not entertaining.

ID4- Not really a good movie, but damn if its not entertaining and the Prez's speech gets me to cheer every damn time!

I think any flick that transcends or at least lives up to its intentions is living out its potential.

Re-Animator is a perfect example. Genre trash to some, but a great, maniac frankenstein story with some great performances by Combs and Crampton along with some sick humor thrown in and you have a genre classic. Hard not to like this flick.

Night of the Creeps is another one. Nothing terribly original, but some great jokes and stylish direction make for a fun ride.

Deep Blue Sea- It really didn't transcend anything, but it was a slave to its genre origins and made out to be one smart, fun flick. Not to mention one of the best death scenes-ever.