MetalGearSolid3: Snake Eaters Preview

Well, I've got VERY high hopes for it.

The GTA crack in the MGS3 trailer is Konami's pathetic idea of a joke. So is the release date thing. I guess the otaku find this stuff funny.

Not funny to me, but it as long as that shit doesn't get in the way of the gameplay then I don't care.

If "snake eater" means your character must suck dong to survive, yeah.

The trailer was amazing and the gameplay looks fantastic. The little bits that I've read about the game itself sound even better than what I've seen. It will come out and those of us with PS2's will undoubtedly buy it and I'm pretty sure it will be fun as hell. Even Sons of Liberty was worth buying even with it's flaws. It's not like he hasn't earned a little leniency from game players, a little trust.

If this series were to switch to, say, a more realistic espionage theme, and leave out the vampires and possessed demon hands and the overwrought, needlessly melodramatic and wordy storylines, it could be fantastic. As it stands, it's fairly fun gameplay wrapped in an absurd, dense blanket of sci-fi and comic book cliches.

Go play Splinter Cell, Realism Boy.

Hehe. Hey, I don't mind the giant robots, the actual Metal Gear thingies: they work within the context of the games. But when you start mixing in homo-erotic vampires and demonic possession, it doesn't really mix well with defusing bombs and stealth knock-outs. Devil May Cry this ain't. Pick a theme and stick to it, ya wacky Japanese bastards!

Snake Eaters is idiotic. Edit your thread title.

MGS is a pizza videogame whose influences range from Super Mario to The Outlaw Josey Wales. Beyond some of the weapons details and basic sneaking around stuff, it doesn't try to be real. It's unashamed escapism and that's the way I like it.

I dig it, and I hope this comes out for Xbox.

I'll buy this bitch the day it comes out. I was one of the few who didn't want to kill Kojima after finishing MGS2, even though it did have it's flaws. Hell I even liked Raiden after playing as him for awhile. I just hope MGS3 isn't all gameplay and no story, which I highly doubt it will be.

Fool me once, shame on you...

This looks like a rental at best.

Oh, and why does Hideo Kojima apparently have some sort of grudgethirst against letting gamers play as Solid Snake? First Raiden, now this? Ridiculous.

Raiden was a mistake, I'm pretty sure he realizes that now. For all intents and purposes you are still playing as Solid Snake and there should be no reason it wouldn't play exactly like it. I'm bummed that the cat seems to be out of the bag on the twist already, that would have been fun to find out through playing.

Hey, I'm willing to keep an open mind. If the reviews and buzz are good, I'll give the game a chance. But MGS2 left a mighty big stink in my mouth, and it'll take a lot of gaming goodness to wash that taste away. But, hell, I really do hope Kojima and his team listened to fan reactions and learned from their mistakes. I would love to see this game storm out of the gate and just stomp our collective ass with the same type of immersive experience the first game delivered.

The day most gamers realise the true intents behind MGS2 and why it is a revolution in the gaming world will be a great day for gaming, sadly, it ain't gonna happen soon (as evidenced by some of the answers in this thread), which will lead more and more mediocre games like Splinter Cell as being regarded as masterpieces. Sad.

Care to enlighten the unwashed heathen?

Will your theory explain why Otacon had to fuck his stepmother, why Raiden needed to have long conversations about falling in love while watching King Kong, why Vamp was bisexual, why your character needed to run around naked for fifteen minutes, why the designers ever thought that renaming Snake "Plisskin" would ever be funny, and why the game was six hours of gameplay and five hours of cinema scenes?

Having good intentions doesn't excuse the faults of the game. I just really can't believe that listening to the 50th conversation about Otacon and his fucking sister could have been fun for anybody. Sure the first game was wordy and there was the very strange conversation where we learn Snake is a musher but for the most part it related to the story at hand. It was also paced so the dialogue didn't yank you out of the action every three seconds.

Well, basically, it seems to me that MGS2 is, in a way, the first "thinking man's game". It's a game that tries to be more than a simple distraction, first by trying to have a distinc cinematographic feel, but also by trying to engage the gamer and making him think on amongst others, his position as a player (you're constantly reminded that you're playing a game), his enjoyment of fictional violence, so on and so forth. It's a game that tries to reflect on its own medium and I love this about it. Now I can understand why most players could give two shits about it and only want gameplay gameplay gameplay, but to casually dismiss it as some kind of piece of shit because you don't fully get the maker's intent seems a bit exaggerated to me (and even then, I think you'd be hard pressed to find another game so well thought out in terms of gameplay possibilities and interaction with the environment, as I'm playing Splinter Cell right now and am finding it incredibly dull and linear).

And it's clear that a lot of people don't get Kojima's intent, as evidenced by the fact they're still bitching about having to play as Raiden two years after the release, when Kojima has stated time and again that he wanted to give the player another point of view of Snake and give him a new statute, one that he could never have achieved if he was merely a puppet by being controlled by the player. Brilliant way of thinking to me, and so unusual for a game creator, which makes me sad that instead of trying to think about it, most people dismiss it immediately because they can't play as their hero. And even more sadder that as long as this kind of thinking dominates, the video game industry risks never "growing up".

Honestly the complaints about the sexuality of the characters are a bit ridiculous. Does it unhinges you? It's not as if Vamp bisexuality came into play heavily in the game so that you had to defeat him by giving him a blowjob. It's an anecdotal info that you only learn if you go looking for it. As for Otacon, it's a rational way of explaining his guilt toward his sister, and certainly less cliche than most stuff you usually see in games.

As for the rest, it all comes down to different tastes, personally I didn't mind any of that one bit (y'kno folks, Codec conversations CAN be skipped, you don't have to listen if you hate them). The first one has sensibly the same amount of codec/cutscenes/gameplay ratio (I played through it again, and I did spend a lot of time watching, it's only because it's more scattered that you don't think it's as heavy as in 2).

And again, talking about it like it's a piece of shit because of stuff like that when most aspects of the game (graphics, gameplay, physics, environment, AI and on and on) is much better done than in the vast majority of games out on the market is a tad far-fetched.

That doesn't answer any of my questions. I do agree with you about the gamemakers' intentions. Noble, sure, but it amounts to jack shit if the gameplay and storyline fall flat. Ambition means nothing if you flub the execution.

The fact remains that not everyone hated it *just* because you had to play as Raiden--some of us hated it because the most anticipated game of all time turned out to have the single worst script in recent memory.

And I also don't think it's quite as revolutionary as you seem to believe--None of MGS2's philosophical aspects could stand up against weightier RPGs like Xenosaga or even some of the Final Fantasy installments. And I've seen the self-referential gaming bit done far better in games like dot.hack.

But then again, if you find Splinter Cell boring, we're obviously operating on two very different gaming wavelengths here.

It seems so. As a matter of fact, I found it so boring that I just put it down and started MGS2 over again for about the...15th time now wink

No, it doesn't "unhinge" me, but it does annoy me. Especially when the game "tries to be more than a simple distraction, first by trying to have a distinc cinematographic feel," as you put it. The simple fact is that I played through the game three times (I was bored at the time). In my second time through, my gameclock stood at ten hours. On my final run-through, I skipped every single cutscene and codec transmission. Time? Five hours.

So when your game is only 50% interactive, you had better make sure that the story you're forcing the player to sit through is damn good. I think the Phantom Menance comparisons that always get thrown out concerning this game are pretty appropriate, except for the fact that the Phantom Menace had a better script.

If you were sitting in a movie theater watching a five hour action film with fat men on roller skates, incestous computer nerds, bisexual vampires, a cheesy romantic subplot, every action movie cliche under the sun, a whiny and unlikable main character as your hero, endless breaks in the action to discuss philosophy and reality, stilted and unnatural dialogue, a smothering dose of Japanese pretention, and an ending that is nothing more than a variation on the "it was all a dream" cliche, would you stick around to see the end credits?

Agreed. The original MGS had an unbeatable level of gameplay and depth, and the sequel improved on it. I still love the first hour and a half of the sequel, which remains flawless. If that narrative pacing and strong gameplay had remained constant throughout the game, it would be one of my all-time favorites.

But Kojima fucked everything up.

Maybe not if it was a movie, but in a video game, and one that doesn't have the pretense to be realistic to a fault (even though it's fairly grounded in realistic facts) and takes itself only half-seriously at that, I can perfectly accept it. But that boils down to personal tastes, as is the appreciation of the story, so I'm gonna leave it at that, and we'll each go our separate routes, you walking off into the sunset hands in hands with Sam Fisher while I ride off with Kojima.

Fair enough.

Yep, I should finish MGS2 also. That way I can try to help Blunt, not that he needs it. I've really liked it so far but I'm kind of between a rock and a hard place trying to disarm the fat guy bombs. The switch to Raiden was certainly jarring but didn't really detract from my enjoyment. I just hope I get a glimpse of what Snake is doing in the other section of the rig.

You'll certainly get some glimpses, but not a lot. Apparently Substance actually allows you to play the missions that Snake is on while you're controlling Raiden and that could be pretty cool. Playing Raiden wasn't like pulling teeth, but he's certainly got no charisma (his main fault). Plus, you get the sword so late in the game that it's wasted.
I enjoyed the game as well, but be prepared for some evilness. The Raiden running around naked scene is almost certainly the most annoying thing this series has ever produced. All of the calls you receive were vaguely amusing the first few times you play it through, and hammers home the point Blunt is referring to. Unfortunately that whole level is a bit of a bear to get through, and you'll notice that you only seem to get those damn calls at the worst possible time as you try to sneak around. I consider it a game developers worst sin, creating scenes that are not only difficult to pass but you just don't enjoy them while you're grinding through it. Max Payne had 3 separate occasions of it, and each one almost made me put it down. The Raiden naked scene was the only time the MGS series has done it to me.

Nope, sorry. The Snake Tales in Substance are little scenarios that you play as Snake in Sons of Liberty settings and with various outfits, but they're not what Snake is doing in the main storyline. There are just amusing little stories that eventually allow you to see some old familiar faces, but they're totally non canon. Still pretty fun to play though, especially since you've got no radar at all, which ups the difficulty level considerably.

Dozens of games do this very thing, and many do it much better. See the Monkey Island games for the best self-referential humor and awareness.

Please, not the "you just don't get it" argument. Like I said, the game had fantastic elements, but was sorely lacking in execution. There's a reason why a given piece of entertainment, whether it's a novel, a film or a game, has a theme. Throwing in random themes and sub-plots just to show you're "not just a game" is hardly innovative or creative.

The only thing these two games have in common is the supposed 'stealth' angle, in which, to me at least, Splinter Cell clearly excels. Metal Gear Solid 2 is really more of a comic book adventure. As far as linearity, both games suffer, but both games also have many different solutions to a given task.

So we'll get to know Snake better by playing a different character? Huh?

Again, the sad "you people just don't get it" argument. If you think this game in any way represents a "growing up" of the gaming industry, then you must not have played any games before 1996. There are literally dozens of games that handle complex themes and mature content that actually deliver without resorting to melodrama and purple prose.

I don't have a problem with anyone loving MGS2. I enjoyed playing it myself, depite its flaws. But when I'm told I 'just don't get it' when I raise valid criticisms, I have to respond.

Blunt, I....damn.....I see that you love MGS2 and such, and that's great.

But for ME, it's a pretentious, silly failure that forgets what GAMING, as in you making the character you control onscreen do things with the controller that are cool, is about. And that doesn't mean I'm some Cro-Magnon unable to comprehend complex storytelling or ambitious and unique gameplay.

Those elements are are done WELL in Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, while still giving you a game to play. MGS 2 is a horrible PS2 movie with interactive sequences sprinkled in every so often to keep you awake and/or from returning the game.

My major problem with Metal Gear Solid 2, beyond the ridiculous script, is that I had basically played the game before. It was called Metal Gear Solid.

The game ADMITS to basically being a recreation of the first game. The two shells are the two buildings and you go through defeating various bosses who are psychologically tortured in some fasion.

As to the game admitting it's a game, again, the original Metal Gear Solid already covered that ground, especially in the Pscyho Mantis fight.

I dig the MGS games because even though the script can be cheesy or just downright bad, the gameplay is always on. It's just a shame that MGS 2 lacked and creativity beyond being able to shoot out lightbulbs and stuffing bad guys in lockers.

For those who have never seen them, ya gotta check out <a href="http://www.toastyfrog.com/features/thumbnail_theatre.shtml" target="_blank">Toastyfrog's Thumbnail Theater</a>. Here's an excerpt from their four-part MGS2 bit:

Metal Gear Solid 2
Part One



Snake: In the wake of Shadow Moses, I've learned one vital fact: the most important part of heroism is making bad-assed-ness look effortless. Take, for instance, my casual flick of the cigarette before leaping off the George Washington Bridge.


Snake: (THUD)


Snake: Oof. Uh, I meant to do that.


Ocelot: Ahh, the puppet dances into my clutches. Albeit in a surprisingly clumsy manner.


Otacon: Snake, you're in. Now let's pedantically recap trivial details of our lives for the sake of the audience.


Snake: Yes, definitely. I'd hate for this sequel to fail to uphold the standard set by the first game for stilted, unnatural dialogue.


Otacon: These days, everyone in the world has their very own Metal Gear. Nations, Rotary Clubs, Boy Scout troops, dotcoms, you name it. The Marines are working on a means by which to counteract the spread of Metal Gear by building a bigger Metal Gear. And our job is to embarrass them into stopping.


Snake: I'm sorry, I'm already lost here. Did you say dotcoms have Metal Gears? So, like, people who don't think Amazon's overnight shipping is fast enough can have their order launched instantly by an electromagnetic rail-fired chain gun? And why are we trying to prevent the Marines from combatting widespread nuclear proliferation?


Otacon: We're PHILANTHROPY! We fight Metal Gears! Even the noble Metal Gears that fight other Metal Gears. It's like "Circuit Breaker" from the old Transformers comics, see. She hated all Transformers, even th--


Snake: Forget I asked. Wait. Look, the ship's already been hijacked.


Otacon: Ooh, do you think it's another fringe group with illogical goals and a stupid name in all-caps? Maybe AVALANCHE!


Snake: No, I'd bet Russians, based on the old guy's haircut. Well, that and the furry cap he's wearing with a red star on it. Also, the Russian firearms and helicopters they're using.


Otacon: Wow, you're a real pro, Snake. But I bet you still need me to explain how to shoot your firearms! In excruciating detail!

-------------------------

They cover games and movies, and you can just imagine what they did to the Star Wars prequels...

I couldn't agree with Blunt more. I too get mad when I hear people constantly bitch about MGS2 because it wasn't what they hoped it would be. Yes, Snake is cooler than Raiden. Yes, you only get to play as Snake for about 40 minutes. But being able to take orders from Snake and fighting along side of him almost made me like him more. I craved playing as Snake the whole time, yet I enjoyed being Raiden. And please, MGS1 had its fair amount of talky CODEC scenes. I guess no one else remembers listening to Otacon talk for 10 minutes after you save him from Ninja, or all the long conversations you had with Cambell or Mei Ling via CODEC throughout the game. I too was actually disappointed with Splinter Cell. It's a fun game, but never did I throw my books down right after school and play Splinter Cell for 4 hours, as I did with Metal Gear.

This might have hit the nail on the head. I haven't had any school books to throw down for over eighteen years.

Then maybe you're too old for video games.. wink

I just want to sneak around, crack people's necks, shoot them in the nuts and watch them scream in agony, then hide their corpses when they die... IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK? I ask you... is it!?!?!?!

Yes.

I know I'm too old for some video games. I'm also a little too old to be playing Chutes 'N Ladders, if you get my drift...

There's an alledgedly crappy copy of the new ECTS trailer floating around right now, but all the links I've found aren't working. I expect it will be up at the official site in no time. Seems even more amazing than the first trailer from what I've read.

You're NEVER too old for Chutes 'N Ladders.

It's not as amazing as the E3 one - shorter (around 4 - 5 minutes) and just showing some neat stuff (like the jungle life, for example). There is this one part that is interesting - Snake gets caught in a trap set up for him and hangs upside for awhile.

While I'll agree that the comedic moments aren't all that funny, everything else is great. As for no gameplay, that is gameplay. The camera's just drawn out there to give it a cinematic feel for the trailer. I suggest you read up some more on the game. As for Snake Eater, it's an acronym for something involving special forces.

Either that or it just represents he fact that Snake eats snakes.