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Donnie Darko

post #1 of 80
5/13/02 at 7:46pm
Thread Starter 
Who wants to explain to me what the hell happened?
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post #2 of 80
5/13/02 at 7:58pm
<a href="http://chud.nexcess.net/board/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=006442&p=" target="_blank">This should answer pretty much all your questions</a>

To save you some scrolling time:

The Philosophy Of Time Travel

1) The Tangent Universe

When the fabric of the 4th dimension (time) becomes temporarily compromised, a Tangent Universe is created. A Tangent Universe is unstable, lasting only several weeks.

Eventually, it will collapse upon itself, forming a temporal black hole in the Primary Universe, capable of destroying all existence.

The Tangent Universe is the location of the bulk of the film, minus the beginning and the end.

2)Artifacts and The Living

When a Tangent Universe is created, those living nearest to the vortex (Middlesex) find themselves in the epicenter of a dangerous new world.

Artifacts provide the first sign of the birth of a Tangent Universe, and are always made of metal. The jet engine is the Arifact.

3) The Living Receiver

The Living Receiver is chosen to guide the artifact into position for a journey back in time to the Primary Universe. They are gifted with 4th dimensional powers (time travel). Donnie Darko is the Living Receiver.

4) The Manipulated Living

The Manipulated Living are often close friends or relatives to the Living Receiver. They are often prone to violent, irrational or bizarre behavior.

This is a result of their task, which is to assist the Living Receiver in guiding the Artifact to the Primary Universe.

The Manipulated Living include Donnie's family, Dr. Monnitoff, who gave Donnie the book, Gretchen, and the two thugs at the film's climax.

5) The Manipulated Dead

Someone who dies in the Tangent Universe. They are able to contact the Living Receiver. They are more powerful than the Manipulated Living.

Often the Manipulated Dead will set an Ensurance Trap for the Living Receiver, to ensure the artifact is returned to the Primary Universe.

Frank is the Manipulated Dead, and the things he makes Donnie do are his Ensurance Trap.

6) Dreams

When the Manipulated Living wake up from their journey in the Tangent Universe, they are often haunted by dreams of their experience, although they usually do not remember it in their waking hours (Dr. Thurmond, Gretchen).

Those who do remember ar overcome with profound grief, like Jim Cunningham, who commits suicide.

The only physical evidence of the Tangent Universe's existence is the Artifact, which is the jet engine.

That explains a lot.

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post #3 of 80
5/15/02 at 11:29am
It is definately a masterpiece. But its also the kind of movie that you wont understand unless you either watch it more then once, or really really think about it.
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post #4 of 80
5/15/02 at 3:43pm
Thread Starter 
I enjoyed the movie. I just hate movies where you can't get all the info you need from the movie itself. I don't think they really explained the tangent universe part really well.
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post #5 of 80
5/15/02 at 5:06pm
It's in the movie and can be picked up by the intelligent viewer.
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post #6 of 80
5/15/02 at 5:20pm
You could also say that everything that happens in the 28 days is his dream before he dies, and that Donnie's happier being dead.
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post #7 of 80
5/15/02 at 7:11pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Devin no hava da boomah:
It's in the movie and can be picked up by the intelligent viewer.
<a href="http://chud.nexcess.net/board/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=006442&p=" target="_blank">http://chud.nexcess.net/board/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=006442&p=</a>

I guess you are calling a lot of Chewers dumb. Pity you seem to enjoy trashing the very same people who you want to read your articles and updates. Doesn't seem very business savvy to me.
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post #8 of 80
5/15/02 at 7:12pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the info guys. I definitely plan on rewatching this film.
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post #9 of 80
5/24/02 at 1:07pm
I just wanted to chime in a reiterate what an incredible movie this is. I watched it for about the tenth time last night and love it more with each viewing.
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post #10 of 80
5/24/02 at 3:57pm
By far one of the best films released last year. Head and shoulders above A Beautiful Mind.
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post #11 of 80
5/24/02 at 5:04pm
For further proof that a film's box office receipts have little to do with how good a movie is, check out the Travesty of the Day:

Total box office of Donnie Darko: $514,545
Total box office of Rush Hour 2: $226,138,454
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post #12 of 80
5/27/02 at 11:19pm
A great film!

Just finished watching this movie for the second time today. Started it last night and finished it this morning.

Then played with all the special features. I loved the "Father and Son Reconcile" cut scene where Eddie Darko pretty much tells Donnie that anybody that picks on him is just jealous and he should just say "Fuck You!" to them. My late father used to give me that jealousy advice all the time, w/o the FU that is.

After that, I watched the film a second time with the director/star commentary, which was fantastic. Jake Gyllenhaal is a funny guy and his Walken impression was great! Also, director Richard Kelly mentioned during the Evil Dead scene that he originally wanted to use the movie C.H.U.D., but that the movie lawyers couldn't get the rights, so they contacted Sam Raimi and he let them use Evil Dead for free. Also enjoyed the part where the director commented on how Drew Barrymore and the lawyers made a 4 AM conference call to the Netherlands to get the rights for the Smurf scene in the movie. Funny stuff!

The <a href="http://www.donniedarko.com/" target="_blank">official website</a> is very interesting and is fun to navigate.
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post #13 of 80
5/28/02 at 2:26pm
I thought Richard Kelly provided a pretty good commentary, but Jake G. really kind of got on my nerves by repeatedly interupting Kelly's discussion to throw in semi-pointless anecdotes.

Kelly: "I think this scene could be the most important piece of the puzzle because..."

Jake: "Oh, I remeber this scene. There were pizzas sitting right on the other side of the camera and I was so hungry!"

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post #14 of 80
6/11/02 at 7:22pm
Thread Starter 
All right, it took me a while to rewatch, but I am still utterly confused. First, I was looking forward to the commentary, but the DVD I got from Netflix didn't have it. What's weird is that it did have the deleted scenes, which I thought were great but not helpful in explaining what happened.

I do get certain aspects now, but I'm not sure how they fit together.

Here are my questions and comments:

1) The Tangent Universe

When the fabric of the 4th dimension (time) becomes temporarily compromised, a Tangent Universe is created. A Tangent Universe is unstable, lasting only several weeks.

So what we are watching in the movie, save the beginning and end, is the tangent universe, right?

Eventually, it will collapse upon itself, forming a temporal black hole in the Primary Universe, capable of destroying all existence.

Okay, I get this. The world is going to end if the Tangent Universe collapses.

2)Artifacts and The Living

When a Tangent Universe is created, those living nearest to the vortex (Middlesex) find themselves in the epicenter of a dangerous new world.

So are we to assume the whole town is transported into the Tangent Universe? If so, what happens to the town in the Primary Universe?

Artifacts provide the first sign of the birth of a Tangent Universe, and are always made of metal. The jet engine is the Arifact.

Okay.

3) The Living Receiver

The Living Receiver is chosen to guide the artifact into position for a journey back in time to the Primary Universe. They are gifted with 4th dimensional powers (time travel). Donnie Darko is the Living Receiver.

Here's where things get shady for me. I get that Donnie is the Living Receiver. I don't get how time travel has anything to do with this or how Donnie "guides" the artifact into position. Donnie doesn't have power over the airplane and where it flies, does he?

And how is the Tangent Universe in the future? Tangent by definition means that the newly created universe touches the Primary Universe, but does not cross or intersect it. I see it more as being an off shoot of the Primary Universe as opposed to being the future. I don't see where the "past" and time travel come in.

Or better yet, I see it as a time warp ala Ground Hogs Day, where Donnie is forced to relive the month of October. In this case, he doesn't get to do it over and over as in GHD, but Donnie does have to relive the "past" and try to correct things that went previously wrong in order to save existence. In this theory I can sort of see how time travel plays a role, but I still don't get how the Tangent Universe could be considered "the future."

4) The Manipulated Living

The Manipulated Living are often close friends or relatives to the Living Receiver. They are often prone to violent, irrational or bizarre behavior.

This is a result of their task, which is to assist the Living Receiver in guiding the Artifact to the Primary Universe.

The Manipulated Living include Donnie's family, Dr. Monnitoff, who gave Donnie the book, Gretchen, and the two thugs at the film's climax.

I still don't get how Donnie can guide the artifact anywhere. And isn't Gretchen the manipulated dead as she dies in the Tangent Universe?

5) The Manipulated Dead

Someone who dies in the Tangent Universe. They are able to contact the Living Receiver. They are more powerful than the Manipulated Living.

Often the Manipulated Dead will set an Ensurance Trap for the Living Receiver, to ensure the artifact is returned to the Primary Universe.

Frank is the Manipulated Dead, and the things he makes Donnie do are his Ensurance Trap.

Okay. Get it, except for the guiding of the artifact bit.

6) Dreams

When the Manipulated Living wake up from their journey in the Tangent Universe, they are often haunted by dreams of their experience, although they usually do not remember it in their waking hours (Dr. Thurmond, Gretchen).

Those who do remember are overcome with profound grief, like Jim Cunningham, who commits suicide.

The only physical evidence of the Tangent Universe's existence is the Artifact, which is the jet engine.

This doesn't make sense to me. Is the Tangent Universe real or a dream? If it's real, did everyone physically time travel from the primary Universe to the Tangent Universe and Donnie's got to get them back? If it's a dream, how do they all have the same one and interact with each other?

Also, my biggest question that I fear will never get answered is did they ever explain how or why the 4th Dimension was comprimised in the first place? And where did the orginal plane engine come from?

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post #15 of 80
6/11/02 at 11:00pm
Well, I'll try to answer some of your questions, if I can. Some of my explanations might be reaching a little too far, but I've come up with my theories through combining snippets from various sources.

A lot of interesting information can be found at the official website, if you're in the mood to goof around for about a half hour. You can visit the website <a href="http://www.donniedarko.com/" target="_blank">here</a> if you want.

--------------------------------------------------

"So what we are watching in the movie, save the beginning and end, is the tangent universe, right?"

Correct.

"So are we to assume the whole town is transported into the Tangent Universe? If so, what happens to the town in the Primary Universe?"

That's kind of tricky. This could be looked at in two ways. But I would go with the explanation that the only person actually transported into the Tangent Universe is Donnie, and that everyone else is a T.U. copy.

The T.U., however, is an unstable carbon copy of our own universe, and no matter what happened to Middlesex in our world, that means nothing when Donnie completes his task and nullifies the T.U.

"Here's where things get shady for me. I get that Donnie is the Living Receiver. I don't get how time travel has anything to do with this..."

Time travel has everything to do with this. The T.U. is an offshoot of our own universe with a time stream that runs parallel to our own. A day goes by here, a day goes by in the T.U. Donnie had to guide the artifact back to our universe at the exact moment in which the T.U. was created. Hence, time travel means everything in order for the Living Receiver to perform his task.

"...or how Donnie "guides" the artifact into position..."

Time travel is merely an example of Donnie's 4th Dimensional power. He is also gifted with abnormal strength and the ability to control fire, among other things. These traits are shown onscreen. Now remember the watery tubes extending from everyone's chests that guided them into the near future? Those are key. They represent everyone's individual timestream. In order to travel through time, Donnie guided the jet engine through HIS own time stream, back to the moment where the T.U. was created.

"And how is the Tangent Universe in the future?"

As I have explained, the T.U. is an offshoot of our own dimension that runs parallel to our own. There is no future involved. Donnie is living in the present throughout the film, until he guides the artifact back to the past in the end to nullify the T.U.'s existence.

"And isn't Gretchen the manipulated dead as she dies in the Tangent Universe?"

As I have said before, technically Gretchen is the 'Manipulated Dead', but she in turn was manipulated by Frank in order to serve a purpose. So I personally classify her as "Manipulated Living'.

"Is the Tangent Universe real or a dream?"

The T.U. is just as real as our own. However, the only person who knew of its existence is Donnie, who does not live to tell the tale.

At the end of the film, everyone we met previously has some reaction when the T.U. is destroyed. It is as if they were all waking up from the same dream, which is true, in a way.

Some of the knowledge of their doubles' existence in the T.U. remains within them, buried in their subconscious mind. They would think of it as a dream, and nothing more.

As previously stated, the only physical evidence of the T.U.'s existence is the Artifact.

"...did they ever explain how or why the 4th Dimension was comprimised in the first place?"

'When the fabric of the 4th dimension (time) becomes temporarily compromised, a Tangent Universe is created.' Obviously, something caused the creation of the T.U. I believe it is a natural cosmic phenomenon, which has happened before.

There have been other artifacts, other Receivers, and so on. There will be more in the future. And you saw where the jet engine came from.
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post #16 of 80
6/11/02 at 11:56pm
Thread Starter 
Time travel is merely an example of Donnie's 4th Dimensional power. He is also gifted with abnormal strength and the ability to control fire, among other things. These traits are shown onscreen.

How and where?

Now remember the watery tubes extending from everyone's chests that guided them into the near future? Those are key. They represent everyone's individual timestream. In order to travel through time, Donnie guided the jet engine through HIS own time stream, back to the moment where the T.U. was created.

Yet again I ask how? The streams seemed fixed to me, like they were showing Donnie people's timelines and what their path in life was, but at no point did it seem like Donnie was "guiding" the streams. He looked like he was compelled to follow them, but didn't really know where it would take him. I really don't see how Donnie is guiding anything.

As I have explained, the T.U. is an offshoot of our own dimension that runs parallel to our own. There is no future involved. Donnie is living in the present throughout the film, until he guides the artifact back to the past in the end to nullify the T.U.'s existence.

That's what I thought, but the description on the DVD box says, "Donnie Darko is an edgy, psychological thriller about a suburban teen coming face-to-face with his dark destiny. Jake Gyllenhaal plays a delusional high-school student visited by a demonic rabbit with eerie visions of the past, and deadly predictions for the future."

Okay, rereading that I don't know where I got that the TU was supposed to be the future. I guess I don't get how Donnie's visions are stuff that happened in the past.

As I have said before, technically Gretchen is the 'Manipulated Dead', but she in turn was manipulated by Frank in order to serve a purpose. So I personally classify her as "Manipulated Living'.

Okay.

The T.U. is just as real as our own. However, the only person who knew of its existence is Donnie, who does not live to tell the tale.

At the end of the film, everyone we met previously has some reaction when the T.U. is destroyed. It is as if they were all waking up from the same dream, which is true, in a way.

Some of the knowledge of their doubles' existence in the T.U. remains within them, buried in their subconscious mind. They would think of it as a dream, and nothing more.

As previously stated, the only physical evidence of the T.U.'s existence is the Artifact.

So is the artifact the plane engine in the tangent universe of the real one?

'When the fabric of the 4th dimension (time) becomes temporarily compromised, a Tangent Universe is created.' Obviously, something caused the creation of the T.U. I believe it is a natural cosmic phenomenon, which has happened before.

There have been other artifacts, other Receivers, and so on. There will be more in the future. And you saw where the jet engine came from.[/QB][/QUOTE]

We saw where the second jet engine came from. Where did the first come from?
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post #17 of 80
6/12/02 at 12:20am
Thread Starter 
Now I'm definitely at a loss after going to the website. I listened to the phone transcript twice and am not sure what happened. The engine that killed Donnie was idetified a s an exact match to a plane that was fully operational in 1991. It was also confirmed that the plane flew from San Fanciso to Denver (or vice versa) and landly safely at 4:30 a.m. on the night of October 2, 1998. So I assume that Engine X that killed Donnie came from the plane in the TU.

I still question where the engine that signaled the beginning of the tangent universe came from.?

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post #18 of 80
6/12/02 at 2:28am
Regarding the other abilities, you can clearly see a demonstration of Donnie's strength when the ax is discovered in the Mascot's head.

The controlling fire is more subtle. When Donnie sets fire to Cunningham's house, the fire quickly spreads out of control. But Donnie, in his subdued state, has no fear of the fire and seems to be in no danger.

This explanation may be a little farfetched, but the book "The Philosophy Of Time Travel" explains pyrokinesis as a potential ability in the Living receiver.

Donnie was compelled to follow the watery appendages in order to get an understanding of them.

As the Living Receiver, he is gifted with the ability to control his own timestream in order to guide the Artifact back to its destination.

This is evident in the shot showing the jet engine travelling through a tunnel of water in the film's conclusion.

And in response to your final query, the answer is this: it's the same engine.

Hopefully I was helpful in some way.
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post #19 of 80
7/17/02 at 10:54am
DB Cooper, you are a wise man and I thank you for clearing up seom things for me as well.

I can't stop thinking about this film since I saw it a week and a half ago. It is very powerful.

It is funny how something this beautiful gets no respect at the box office but that just says a lot about the viewing public in this country.

I hope the director is working on something else.
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post #20 of 80
9/16/02 at 3:57pm
Yes, the film is available on video, but I got to see it on the big screen this weekend thanks to our local art theater's midnight showings!

It was a thing of beauty.

I wanted to run home and watch it again on my DVD, but I let my friend borrow it, so I was at a loss. Worst part - he still hasn't watched it!
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post #21 of 80
10/2/02 at 3:11am
Saw this as a part of a world lit class I took this summer. We read "The Destructors" and then watched the movie. I was blown away. It kinda reminded me of when I first saw "Pulp Fiction", it affected me that much. I will buy the DVD soon to check out all the deleted scenes.
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post #22 of 80
11/22/02 at 11:46pm
That is fucking great!
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post #23 of 80
11/24/02 at 1:19pm
Threadless.com comes through again! They have some great shirts.
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post #24 of 80
1/4/03 at 3:57am
HBO had it on tonight, and I watched the whole thing. Loved it, will get on DVD. Soon.
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post #25 of 80
1/4/03 at 5:48am
Was Jim Cunningham's death in the deleted scenes?
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post #26 of 80
1/4/03 at 10:13pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
T_Mike:
HBO had it on tonight, and I watched the whole thing.
What?!? Where do you live? I have 7 HBO channels and flipped through them all as I have been sick in bed these past few days. There was no Donnie on my TV.
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post #27 of 80
1/13/03 at 1:17pm
FINALLY saw this last night (Thanks, HBO!). This movie fucked my skull. I still don't fully understand it, even with the wealth of CHUD threads on the topic. I don't particularly like having to rely on things outside the movie for it to make sense (the time travel book).

I think, also, that my preconcieved notions about time and time travel are clouding my understanding of the story. The way the story is presented it can only happen as a finite loop. Although Frank saves Donnie from the engine at the beginning, Donnie is killed by the engine at the end. I can't get past the idea that time ultimately repeats itself, like some Escher drawing, into infinity. I think this may be some syndrome induced by the Back to the Future movies. I think that at the end we would see Donnie once again arriving at his house, but he sees his body being carted away. It's so confusing.

The DVD is on sale at Best Buy for $7 this week. I should try to pick it up so I can re-examine all the things mentioned in this thread.

As an aside, my wife HATED this movie. However, she did draw a lot of Biblical parallels to this, particularly in regard to the Apocalypse. Anyone else notice this or know folks who noticed?
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post #28 of 80
1/22/03 at 1:52pm
Am I the only one who feels this movie is extremly over rated? First of all, I don't care how many times you watch it, you can't get all of the information to make conclusions for the movie FROM the movie. At the end, I had a sense of knowing what happened (Donnie is a Christ figure, what a surprise) but the whole time travel, althernate universe, blah blah blah just didn't add up. I shouldn't have to wade through a whole website or read the DVD liner notes to get something out of a film. That's not what films all about.

And even if I did, there are still things in the film that don't make sense. Like Frank's first appearance. How can he come to Donnie BEFORE the event that sets everything in motion (the first plane jet crashing through his celing)?? And what about the scene with Drew Barrymore and Noah Wyle sitting around? Drew says "Donnie Dark!" and Noah says "Yeah!" WHAT the FUCK?

I'm not saying this guy isn't talented, sure he is. But to call a film a classic that just doesn't make much sense and isn't very intresting in the process...no thanks. (By the way, I like surreal cinema--but this guys got nothing on Lynch or Luis Bunell).
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post #29 of 80
1/22/03 at 3:06pm
Quote:
ParkersSeventh:
Am I the only one who feels this movie is extremly over rated? First of all, I don't care how many times you watch it, you can't get all of the information to make conclusions for the movie FROM the movie. At the end, I had a sense of knowing what happened (Donnie is a Christ figure, what a surprise) but the whole time travel, althernate universe, blah blah blah just didn't add up. I shouldn't have to wade through a whole website or read the DVD liner notes to get something out of a film. That's not what films all about.
If the film didn't work on its own merits, I'd agree with you. But I found it powerfully evocative on a first viewing, and there's nothing you can find on the website, etc. that REALLY changes your perception of the movie. It just enriches it a bit with some more concretes on how the tangent universe is created, etc. I enjoyed it immensely without this information.

Quote:
And even if I did, there are still things in the film that don't make sense. Like Frank's first appearance. How can he come to Donnie BEFORE the event that sets everything in motion (the first plane jet crashing through his celing)??
Donnie is gifted to begin with. He's a little mad, so I suspect it's easier for whatever force is guiding him through the tangent universe is able to contact him beforehand, as well.

Quote:
And what about the scene with Drew Barrymore and Noah Wyle sitting around? Drew says "Donnie Dark!" and Noah says "Yeah!" WHAT the FUCK?
</strong>

They're acknowledging there's something central and important about him. It may be cheating a bit, but this is expained somewhat in the commentary.

This bit is CERTAINLY no stranger than the miniature old people in Mulholland Drive, so I don't understand this comment:

Quote:
(By the way, I like surreal cinema--but this guys got nothing on Lynch or Luis Bunell).
And Donnie Darko has nothing on Un Chien Andalou if plot points are your gripes. It makes a TON more sense, narratively speaking, so I don't get the problem. I find it far more thought-out and interesting than Lost Highway, as well, for that matter.
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post #30 of 80
1/22/03 at 4:31pm
Quote:
Don't Stop DaveB-lieving:
Quote:
ParkersSeventh:
Am I the only one who feels this movie is extremly over rated? First of all, I don't care how many times you watch it, you can't get all of the information to make conclusions for the movie FROM the movie. At the end, I had a sense of knowing what happened (Donnie is a Christ figure, what a surprise) but the whole time travel, althernate universe, blah blah blah just didn't add up. I shouldn't have to wade through a whole website or read the DVD liner notes to get something out of a film. That's not what films all about.
If the film didn't work on its own merits, I'd agree with you. But I found it powerfully evocative on a first viewing, and there's nothing you can find on the website, etc. that REALLY changes your perception of the movie. It just enriches it a bit with some more concretes on how the tangent universe is created, etc. I enjoyed it immensely without this information.

Quote:
And even if I did, there are still things in the film that don't make sense. Like Frank's first appearance. How can he come to Donnie BEFORE the event that sets everything in motion (the first plane jet crashing through his celing)??
Donnie is gifted to begin with. He's a little mad, so I suspect it's easier for whatever force is guiding him through the tangent universe is able to contact him beforehand, as well.

Quote:
And what about the scene with Drew Barrymore and Noah Wyle sitting around? Drew says "Donnie Dark!" and Noah says "Yeah!" WHAT the FUCK?
</strong>

They're acknowledging there's something central and important about him. It may be cheating a bit, but this is expained somewhat in the commentary.

This bit is CERTAINLY no stranger than the miniature old people in Mulholland Drive, so I don't understand this comment:

Quote:
(By the way, I like surreal cinema--but this guys got nothing on Lynch or Luis Bunell).
And Donnie Darko has nothing on Un Chien Andalou if plot points are your gripes. It makes a TON more sense, narratively speaking, so I don't get the problem. I find it far more thought-out and interesting than Lost Highway, as well, for that matter.
Well, allow me to explain. I feel that after watching Mullhollan Drive for a great deal of time, I made my own conclucsion about what the little old people represented (it came down to guilt, but there's a lot more to it than that). As for Un Chien Andelou, I was thinking more of Bunel's later films (Exterminating Angel, Discret Charm, etc), not so much his collaboration with Dali, but even still---again, that film lets me draw my own conclusions through the power of great visual metaphors. Donnie Darko, I feel, has an idea, and delights too much in not letting the viewer in on the idea. Then, when it reveals itself a bit too much and you find out what the idea is, you don't really care.

That's just me though. I can understand why a lot of people like it. I wasn't angry that I rented it, but I'm certainly not going to purchase the DVD or rent it again.
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post #31 of 80
1/22/03 at 6:18pm
This movie is now 10 dollars at best buy, meaning no self respecting dvd collector should be without it now.
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post #32 of 80
1/22/03 at 7:14pm
Hey, thatgumyoulike -

I hear you're coming back into style!
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post #33 of 80
1/22/03 at 8:50pm
Quote:
Don't Stop DaveB-lieving:
Hey, thatgumyoulike -

I hear you're coming back into style!
good call. backwards ass talking midgets..cant get enough of em.
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post #34 of 80
1/28/03 at 5:51am
I see it as 'It's a Wonderful Life' in reverse...

Donny is allowed to see how much suffering his life would cause others, so that he becomes content to die... instead of becoming a troubled spirit like Frank.

That and the giant bunny lead me to believe that SOMEONE is a big Jimmy Stewart fan...
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post #35 of 80
1/28/03 at 10:27pm
Thread Starter 
I agree that you can't fully understand what happens in the film without going to website or seeing the extras on the DVD, but that in no way lessened my enjoyment of the film. I just loved the the characters, the story (whether or not it made sense), and the way it was filmed. Having folks explain the time travel stuff to me was just icing on the cake.

Quote:
gravedigger41:
I think, also, that my preconcieved notions about time and time travel are clouding my understanding of the story. The way the story is presented it can only happen as a finite loop.
It is not a loop. A tangent universe (see the second post in this thread for a better explanation) was created by a rip in time, which runs parallel to the main universe. As it is highly unstable and is connected to the real universe, if it collapses it takes everything with it. Donnie has to go back in time to the original point in time when the tanget universe was created to try and stop it.
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post #36 of 80
1/29/03 at 2:08am
I just watched this today thanks to Cheese Biscuits.

This movie is so deep. I was totally immersed in it. I understood the sacrifice he needed to make. I am still thinking about it. This movie has changed my perception of storytelling yet again.
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post #37 of 80
1/29/03 at 2:12am
Also, don't ask me why I just now saw this. Because I will say that I am a dumbass.

I wish had seen this movie earlier. This is what a film experience should be every damn time I walk into a theater.

Now, when am I going to Best Buy?
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post #38 of 80
2/18/03 at 4:37am
I finally watched this.

Everyone seems to be so immersed into what happened and what the time travel means but I have not heard much about the actual film style.

This is one of the most beautiful films I have seen. The camera work is amazing. The camera is almost as much a character as the actors. Usually that can be bad, making you notice the camera and that it is just a movie, but in this case it evokes emotions on it's own.

The music is a great partner to the camera work. This score matches the emotions and works on so many levels that it is just perfection.

The editing is amazing. The slow motion, the cuts, the mise-en-scene, everything is so good. And the acting is top of the line. Jake Gyllenhall is dead on in this role. This movie is amazing, a masterpiece.

That the screenplay is so thought provoking is just an addition that makes this one of the all-time greats. If you have not seen this movie, watch it NOW.

&lt;edited to spell correct&gt;

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post #39 of 80
2/18/03 at 11:49am
The way I saw it, he's probably been going round and round in this loop for a while (hisworld is the one that will end - again - in 28 Days, 6 hours, 42 minutes ansd 12 seconds), sparked off by what ever random event caused the portal.

Hence what people think is his schizophrenia and madness is like a dark flip on Bill Murray in [/B]Groundhog Day[/B]: he's just been going through the same thing for so long. Hence what we think is a vision of Frank, is actually just a hazy memory he has from the last time around.

Of course why would he not remember everything ? Well, I've never been through a wormhole, but I'm assuming it's not a pleasant experience.

We only see this version of 2nd-31st October once through, and it seems we caught it on the time that Donnie meets Gretchen (though this may have happened previous times around) and begins to think against his destiny or fate and making choices for himself based on his discovery on the fictitious The Philosophy Of Time Travel. The most major decision being not to be lured by his memory of Frank outside the front door to the golf course door and to let the engine fall on him.

Haven't seen the commentary all the way through yet, but does it specify whether the time portal materialises anyway on 31st October even though Donnie's died ?
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post #40 of 80
3/4/03 at 1:30am
So I finally got around to watching the other stuff on the DVD, and I noticed something about the "Mad World" video. If this is mentioned in the movie's commentary, I apologize, since I haven't listened to it yet, but there is another scene that was left out of the movie, and you can see it in the video. At some point Donnie and Gretchen go to Roberta Sparrow's mailbox, and Donnie looks into it. They then both look up to see Sparrow watching them from a veranda kinda thing. I would guess this scene would come after Donnie and Gretchen are talking on the ridge, and he tells her about Grandma Death. I dunno. Just thought I'd share. Goddamn, I love this movie.

Most of those deleted scenes are just beautiful. And for some reason I think it's really cool that Jake actually seems to be playing Off-Road in that arcade clip. That wipeout was pathetic, though -- way to overshoot the corner, Donnie.
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post #41 of 80
3/4/03 at 1:31pm
Thread Starter 
Starving Dogs: You are so right. Everything about this movie is brilliant -- cinematography, the score, the acting. We get so caught up in what actually happened, we tend to forget that.
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post #42 of 80
3/16/03 at 5:41am
Alright, just saw it, and I don't get it.

It was a beautiful film, I knew that the moment I pressed play but I have a few questions.

Why did Frank make Donnie do all those things to the school and the house?

What did Drew Barrymore's character have to do with anything and what was the meaning of the book?

Did the pills make Donnie see the visions?

I have a lot more, but I won't ask them until I see the movie a second time.
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post #43 of 80
3/16/03 at 7:26am
The more I think about how great the movie wasn't, the more I really despise the fucks who treat it like the second coming.
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post #44 of 80
3/16/03 at 7:57am
Well I certainly didn't think it was the second coming. I did think it was a very different and interesting movie going experience though(Which is always a plus).

(edited because Galvatron made me.)

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post #45 of 80
3/16/03 at 1:00pm
does anyone know the writer's or director's background that would support them knowing what they're doing when it comes to the concepts in this film? because some of it sounds like reverse engineering, defedning the film to fit the theory, which is fine, and it should make people think and research, that's the best part about it, it's something 'NEW' to a lot of viewers, with all the complaints about lack of innovation and originality in cinema, expecially hollywood, that should be the most minor reason for thinking this is a great find...

it's one of my favorites, and i think it explains everything very clearly in the movie, maybe not in a one plus one is two kind of way, but it gets there, definitely kicked mullholland drive's ass, and you don't know how frustrating it was when this movie first came out to try and get poeple to see it, i was like OCTOBER SKY dude is in it!!! &lt;insert blank stares here&gt; ah well...

"Why are you wearing that silly pant suit?" - Frank
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post #46 of 80
3/16/03 at 5:39pm
Quote:
_New__Order_:

"Why are you wearing that silly pant suit?" - Frank
i thought frank says
"Why are you wearing that stupid MAN suit?"
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post #47 of 80
3/17/03 at 12:26am
Quote:
fast foodi:
i thought frank says
"Why are you wearing that stupid MAN suit?"</strong>[/QUOTE]

sonuva... you win this round...

"I sleep in a racing car. Do yoouu sleep in a racing car?" - Kirk Van Houten
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post #48 of 80
3/17/03 at 6:06pm
Alright, saw it again and then the commentary and have one more question:

If Frank didn't get Donnie out of his room, then Donnie would've died right? So why didn't they just let him?

Also, where did the airplane piece come from in the beginning?

How does making the plane piece go back in time to fall on Donnie fix the tangent universe?

Alright, that was more than one but does anyone know?
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post #49 of 80
3/17/03 at 6:36pm
Scroll up. These things are explained in the first few posts of the thread.
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post #50 of 80
3/18/03 at 1:22am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
RathBandu:
The more I think about how great the movie wasn't, the more I really despise the fucks who treat it like the second coming.
Does not compute. Error. Error.
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