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Lawrence of Arabia, and please, form three lines... - Page 2

post #51 of 95
Line A. Absolutely. The pinnacle of the talent for everybody involved. O'Toole was never better. I think that for all involved that the only one who was able to tom himself was Guinness and those roles occured years previous. Lean's best? Yes, but marginally so. Just the proverbial cunt hair ahead of Bridge and Zhivago.
post #52 of 95
Thanks for the love, Blofeld.

Andre, I never realized that connection between Kane and Lawrence. Uncanny, though, and you have to wonder if Lean was influenced by the "death-first" technique of Welles.

I've read that the main criticism of LoA is the lack of knowledge we have of Lawrence's character by the end of the film. In the end, so the critics say, we really haven't cracked the shell that is Lawrence, and the audience is left completely mystified as to his overreaching motivations. Basically, Lawrence is this weird, eccentric, slightly effeminate dude who likes the desert, and at the end, he's a weird, eccentric, slightly effeminate dude who likes the desert and has suffered the tribulations of war and goes home.

I'm not in agreement, obviously. Yes, Lawrence is a very strange man. But I think the character arc is phenomenal. He begins the movie as an awkward, socially inept, bookish man. Not a soldier, to say the least. And then he gets a heaping dosage of what he's always wanted: the desert. It literally and figuratively scours him. No longer a sheltered cartographer, he is now a warrior-poet, a philosopher-king, as someone mentioned earlier. A being of single purpose (defeat the Turks and protect the Arabs), but without a shred of knowledge of his own identity.

Is he British? Is he Arab? Is this determined by birth and blood, or by one's affinity for a certain environment?

"It is a fat land, full of fat people."
"You are not fat?"
"No, I'm different."

And then, of course, the famous scene of the British soldier on the banks of the Suez (actually David Lean) shouting to an unrecognizable Lawrence: "WHO ARE YOU?! WHO ARE YOU?!"

The character is fascinating because we witness the transformation of a human being into a myth. But where other movies have shown us this through the eyes of supporting characters, this story shows us this evolution while the protagonist is realizing it! Lawrence sees his humanity being stripped away, revels in it for a while, and then ultimately renounces it. He becomes near god-like, a vessel of undiluted charisma, a unifying presence to the Arabs who end up forgetting his British blood, and praise him as their deliverer.

In the end, what does he realize? "Difficult to say," as Dryden deadpans. I think part of it is he realizes that's he's only human, and with all the glory that entails, it always comes with a price. He embraced the desert, and the desert embraced back, breaking his spine. It was a love affair where Lawrence didn't stand a shred of a chance.

Galt
post #53 of 95
For anyone who needs a little help understanding parts of the movie, as I did, Tim Dirks' <a href="http://www.filmsite.org/lawr.html" target="_blank">analysis</a> is second to none.

Isn't the Lawrence Of Arabia DVD the most beautiful thing you've ever seen? The lovingly created menus and the extra features - illuminating making-of documentary, archive materials, "Journey with Lawrence" etc - combine to make one of the more lavish and informative reference packages available. A fitting tribute.
post #54 of 95
Bias for the film aside, the DVD is indeed spectacular. The only viewing experience that tops it is to see it in its 70mm glory on a screen that fits it.

Galt
post #55 of 95
This is one DVD that doesn't even need a commentary. The treasure trove of Lawrence of Arabia is better discovered, discussed and appreciated by the viewer themselves.

Now, who's the ignoramus who didn't put this in the Classics forum?
post #56 of 95
John, I agree we know a lot about Awrence by the end of the film, and we see his changes, but I guess I was refering to the sort of "human condition" of never understanding anyone else more than the audience not walking away with something about Lawrence. I mean it would be a boring movie indeed if there was a main character we never knew anything about.
post #57 of 95
Surprise, I'm still in line "B."

Taped it off Cinemax. Haven't watched it yet.

Too busy livin' life, workin', and watching Aliens and Cherry 2000...
post #58 of 95
Quote:
Andre Dellamorte:
John, I agree we know a lot about Awrence by the end of the film, and we see his changes, but I guess I was refering to the sort of "human condition" of never understanding anyone else more than the audience not walking away with something about Lawrence. I mean it would be a boring movie indeed if there was a main character we never knew anything about.
True enough. I think the characterization works particularl well because not only do we get a defined character arc that leaves us satisfied in some respects, but we get that tantalizing bit of mystery as to his true identity at the end of the film. Lawrence's driver's words emphasize this haziness: "Going home, sir. Going home." And Lawrence just looks out into the desert as the British soldiers march into Damascus. Beautiful.

Galt
post #59 of 95
Line A...in fact, I came close to buying this DVD tonight but decided to find a better price.
post #60 of 95
Line A
post #61 of 95
I'm Line A through and through and the proud owner of it in the DVD Draft. To address a couple of things....

Any critic who faults the movie for our eventual lack of knowledge on Lawrence himself should find a new profession. That's one of the main points of the movie! Its the reason Lean opens with that perfect prologue showing all of Lawrence's military acquaintances describing him in much different, but equally uninformed, ways. The film shows us everything notable, takes a few hypothetical guesses, and in the end shows that he simply that complicated. His complicated being was a lot of what made him who he was. He's not the straightforward hero, far from it. This film shows that heroes don't have to cut and dry good guys or easily definable. Herosim can take many forms in many different types of people.

Also, the "No prisoners" scene is one of my favorites in movie history. To me it is powerful in that it shows the degree to which Lawrence has fallen. In essence he forsakes himself in giving the order against all his previous orders and policies. It shows a weakness he has, since he only ordered the attack after he himself had been brutalized. Its a selfish act of vengeance, tragic as well as horrifying.
post #62 of 95
Well, I made the mistake of starting to watch this movie today for the first time when I KNEW I wouldn't have time to finish it... so now I'm a little over halfway through and it's already making a run for "Favorite Movie Ever" status.

Line A, definitely.

I'd say more, but I need to finish watching the dang thing before I heap too much praise on it.
post #63 of 95
Line A.

This IS my favorite film of all time. Perfect.

72mm film.

Best film ever.
post #64 of 95
72mm?

Do you mean 70mm, or 65mm?
post #65 of 95
Damnit how fucking stupid can I be.

I mean 70mm.

Where the hell did I get 72?

DAMNIT
post #66 of 95
Two screenings of the recent re-release here in NYC, and I'm still solidified in Line A. My feet are firmly planted and I don't think I'll ever move...

I'll chime in here and just say that the 70mm print was supercalifragilisticexpealadociously breathtaking in every way.

I noticed many new things, such as shots of the women at Wadi Rumm watching as they leave on their quest, the look Sherif gives O'Toole at the well, and the beauty of each and every scene. Amazing.

I love the pan from the little girls face across the tent then over the wall into the area where Quinn, O'Toole, and Sherif are situated.

There is really nothing quite like this film and I recommend anyone who is in the vicinity of the re-release to check it out (although by now I think its run is almost over).
post #67 of 95
Blofeld Rising, I am surprised at you. I haven't even finished reading all the responses to this thread and already I am relieved to see that so many people had the same experience that I did in being stunned by this film. I have never seen any film that so overwhelmed me. I first saw it when I was 12 years old, during its first re-release I think, when my father insisted that I go to this really good movie that he wanted me to see. It affected me for years. I proceeded to go to the library and read every book on TE Lawrence that I could find. since then, I have seen the restored version, and in all, about 12 times. I am still figuring him out too. One thing though, about the homosexuality; his youngest brother stated that Lawrence shunned sex and remained a virgin his entire life. God, what a frustrated individual he was. All that supression and intense intellect exploded into an amazing life of trying to live out his dreams and fantasies. He was also the first media sensation, I believe, through no planning of his own, but through newspaper articles and photographs, and Lowell Thomas's travelling slide-show presentations.
post #68 of 95
Line B, but on Tuesday I will be seeing this flick in glorious restored 70 MM at the Zigfield.
post #69 of 95
What's this about a re-release? What city? Last I heard, a couple of years ago, every copy of the restored version had disappeared. Is it back? I hope to God so.
post #70 of 95
Quote:
RathBandu: Rolling Stones Disciple:
Line B, but on Tuesday I will be seeing this flick in glorious restored 70 MM at the Zigfield.
Hey, Rath, sorry to burst your bubble, but you did know that Lawrence's two week run at the Zeigfeld officially ended on Thursday 10/17, right? It's not playing here in NYC anymore....

I still definitely suggest checking out the 2 disc special edition on dvd, just get a really really big television set to go with it.
post #71 of 95
Quote:
Yando in 70mm:
Quote:
RathBandu: Rolling Stones Disciple:
Line B, but on Tuesday I will be seeing this flick in glorious restored 70 MM at the Zigfield.
Hey, Rath, sorry to burst your bubble, but you did know that Lawrence's two week run at the Zeigfeld officially ended on Thursday 10/17, right? It's not playing here in NYC anymore....
Fuck me.
post #72 of 95
I was just seeing this thread. Maybe a little late. It is definitely line A for me. My favorite film of all time.
post #73 of 95
Meanwhile a few months later... I am still in Line A.

Maurice Jarre's theme has been playing non-stop in my head for days now. I am almost convinced that with this and Doctor Zhivago, he has cemented a place with the greatest film composers of all time.

Also, a pre-emptive "no prisoners!"-esque yell for the Superbit DVD release next month. I can't wait to watch all of the colors, the amazing acting, and Lean's spectacular direction all over again.
post #74 of 95
I am not only in Line A; I started Line A. This is the best film of all time in my opinion.
post #75 of 95
Line B....and yes, I own the DVD.
post #76 of 95
Line A, definitely. A true epic. "Nothing is written."
post #77 of 95
Line B. And Kid, since you've owned it this long and haven't watched it you have rescinded your rights of ownership and must mail it ot me.
post #78 of 95
line c... boooooorrrrring
post #79 of 95
I love the enthusiasm in this thread. Nostaligia!

I'll be back to discuss more in the coming days after seeing the 70mm print at the Egyptian.

In the meantime, anyone out there new to this movie? Or David Lean in general? Perhaps we can start something, but I need participants.
post #80 of 95
As John Galt points out earlier, one of my favorite moments (and there are many) from Lawrence, is when the Motorcyclist on the banks of the Suez yells out "Who are you? Who are you?" while Lawrence furrows his brow, listening. The fact that the motorcyclist was Lean himself yelling that out to the main character makes me smile, but it could also be a hard comment on Lean's artistic struggles with the film, his desire to understand what makes the character of Lawrence do the things he does, and a general comment on this masterpiece as a whole. I just love that parallel from the filmmaker to the character, and the scene leading up to it, in the broken down deteroriating house is shot so incredibly well that it makes me feel so unimportant when I think of how to make good scenes work.

The editing completely blows me away every time, and the fact that Lean and Coates use these hard direct cuts (match cut, I must find something honorable-cut-train wheels, They'll come for me-cut-car movement) shows how he's progressed as an editor, as a master filmmaker. Every single cut in the film works and serves a purpose. I see not filler shots, no cuts that make scenes drag out a little longer. Everything has its place to serve the narrative of the story.

It's amazing to see the transformation Lawrence goes through, especially in 70mm. To go from a hard charging almost dainty idealist to having his indentity go through these conflicting changes to finally become so disillusioned with everything, O'Tooles performance is one of the greatest ever, and it was a shame that he wasn't recognized at first. Coincidentally, I was thinking of drawing a parallel between what Lawrence says about his campaign to Allenby, something to the effect of "Johnny Turk won't even know what hit him, while he's mending his railways I'll smash 'em again before he even knows it", and I think this also serves a purpose to speak a little about the "inner" Lawrence, how he "smashes" what is inside of him, and by the end, realizes what has occured and how disillusioned everything has made him feel towards the world.

I suppose that's stretching a bit, and not quite explained fully enough, but I can't wrap my mind around this film's major sprawling themes, characters, points, editing, score, filmmaking. It's a huge movie, and I love the fact that it keeps making me see more and more new things every single time I re-watch it.

Consider me a permanent member of Line A.
post #81 of 95
I've seen this film five times. Watched it again today.

But I feel almost unworthy to talk about until i see it in the theater.

It's a film with that power.
post #82 of 95
I've seen the film once and I don't feel right seeing it again until I can see it on a big screen.
post #83 of 95
I always make time to see this when it is in 70mm, and fortune smiled upon me these past 5 times in these two different cities. It's not even my favorite film, but I will make time for it anywhere, anytime, anyplace.

Additionally, one of the things I keep noticing is how Lawrence of Arabia is essentially a man's movie (and might tie into what devin talks about earlier in this thread). Women are virturally non-existant throughout this film, and in the cases we do "see" them they are regulated into smaller roles that have little to no significance to the big picture. One of the first instances of women occurs in the streets of Cairo, but we don't get enough time to glimpse them. Secondly, when Lean tracks down from the shot of that little girl (but it could, I suppose, be a young boy, it is vague), towards Auda Abu Tayi and the dinner sequence, it's a short scene that could be interpreted the other way. Thirdly, when they are leaving Wadi Rum for Ackaba (spelling?), we only see the silhouettes of women, in tents, outside on the rocks, hollering their voices for the men, so in essence they are there to serve the purpose of the men in the scene. Next, we have the shots of the women outside of Damascus, before the triumphant yelling of "No Prisoners!", and we're regulated to seeing dead women, almost as if we're being subjected to our last looks of their presence in the film. Finally, one, if not the, last instances where a women is on screen is with the nurses when Lawrence is slapped and laughing hysterically. There's no dialogue, or even much movement, other than a hop out of a jeep, but her purpose is to save the people dying on screen, and I suppose it could mean as much.

I'm probably looking too deeply or not deeply enough into this, but Lawrence is such a masculine movie filled with so many conflicting tendancies, especially "inner" ones, that it creates an interesting paralell between the life being told on screen and the way Lean tells it.

Additionally, the scene that introduces Sherif Ali so marvelously uses and tells screen direction so well, that I am still in awe with the camera movements, the series of shots, and the way that it is all cut together. Simply stunning and masterly effective.
post #84 of 95
Line C.

I understand its place in film history and it deserves it there I suppose, but the film, for me, does not need more than one viewing.

I do appreciate Lean's cinematic eye. That kind of talent is certainly missed today.
post #85 of 95
Line A, naturally.

I'm currently reading "The seven pillars of wisdom", and I find it very different from "Lawrence of Arabia". It's a much more convential story which gives Lawrence a more down to earth tone. Apparently, he later changed his name to "Shaw" because he was embarrassed by the "Lawrence of Arabia myth".
post #86 of 95
I'm in Line B. Lawrence of Arabia has been shown on TV quite a fair amount of times, only once i have actualy sat down to watch it but ended up having to go out about half an hour into the film and this was about 2 years ago. I've almost bought it on dvd but everytime something else distracts me which is a shame as it sounds truely brilliant.
post #87 of 95
Line A for me please. I would have to say that this movie provides me with so many great moments every time I see it. It never gets old.

I've seen it in on the big screen (for my first time) and own two copies on DVD (Superbit and the original Columbia/Tri Star release). It's one of my treasures and I would never offer to show it to anyone that I didn't believe could appreciate it. Thankfully my wife loved it when I showed it to her.
post #88 of 95
Line A. one of the best movies ever made. quite possibly a movie I'd buy a Blu Ray player for (as it's owned by Sony, it will end up on Blu-Ray, I guess)
post #89 of 95
Line A, and anybody in C has just forfeited any chance of my taking their opinion on film seriously...
"Lawrence" is Lean's best film, but with "Zhivago" a close second and "Kwai" a Close third.
post #90 of 95
Thread Starter 
Line C is only occupied by penis keg and General Zod. I suppose that says something.
post #91 of 95
Line A, duh.
post #92 of 95
Line A. True masterpiece.
post #93 of 95
I like how this thread keeps coming back up from the depths.

Needless to say, I've worn out my Superbit DVD to death watching this thing. Sometimes it's just scenes to make me feel horribly unimportant, othertimes it's just because I'm in the mood for one of the greatest movies ever made.

For the "new" people for this thread, any sequences in particular that stand out to you?

Also, if you're in/around The American Cinematheque at the Aero in Santa Monica in the begining of February, they're showing this again in 70mm. It's one of those cinematic pilgrimages that you must take, no excuses!
post #94 of 95
"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts...




... when Jose and the Turks are gang-raping you into submission."



Bad joke aside, Line A.
post #95 of 95
I'm in Line D. The people who started watching it last night cuz they bought the dvd the other day, and fell asleep before the halfway mark of Disc 1. (I have the 2 disc superbit version.) My schedule sucks.
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