Concerns about the boards, and crap like that - Page 2

I've never seen so many people clamoring to give unsolicited advice on how to run a privately owned business.

Nicks boards. He's 100%, unequivocally, without a doubt the ONLY person with any real stake on what happens with this site and these boards. If I were running a business that so many were using for free, and were being barraged with complaints and jabs and ridiculous bullshit at every turn, you can bet that I'd be cleaning house and washing the scum off the streets immediatly. Dude's been pretty magnanimous up to this point, and we owe him a load of thanks for dropping his cash on a place for us all to come on a daily basis. After all...there ARE alternatives you can go to if it just gets to be too much for you.

Excellent points. Toe the line, don't dare bring things up that might need improvement and if you don't like it get the hell out. That's a viewpoint that we can certainly use more of.

I don't buy that argument. Read above on Andre's post for as to why I don't buy it.

If this is all just a business he choose the wrong business to be in to make money. I was aware that when I joined up here that I was his "employee" or "customer".

Hee hee...well done!

Khitcher, I personally appreciate that you tried. It's obviously going to get buried in mounds of uselessness (which I'm already contributing to), but I think that was pretty well pre-destined. You make some excellent points that people will quickly ignore, unfortunately. Even if you do finish off with a whacked out analogy...

What a dopey attitude, to be honest. At least in this thread.

These boards were closed yesterday. Nick felt things had gone too far and took that measure. Obviously there's plenty to talk about.

Additionally, Nick gave Dre the thumbs up to start this thread. This thread isn't about leaving. He wants to air shit to improve them. It's how conflicts get solved. Talking about them. Among the people involved.

So stop with the "you're with us or you're against us" stuff. If you don't like a thread about this topic, don't keep it alive with your posts.

And one of the things the owner of the site did has come under unwarranted fuckfire and disdain!

It's a damnedifyoudo and damnedifyoudont sort of situation.

So you retaliate by REPLYING to it? That makes sense.

Anyway, bitch all you want, just don'ty be too awfully surprised when Nick hits his boiling point and shuts things down for a little while or a looooong while.

He has more patience than I do, that's for sure.

And the "pay to play" idea floated by a certain Chewer still holds a certain appeal to me.

None of this has to do with any single event. Has that fact evaded you? Andre, with Nick's permission, wanted to air some concerns. It seemed harmless, and certainly had the potential to do more good than bad.
Instead, what happened? You and Jenge and Call did exactly what I had predicted to Nick and Micah would happen were anybody to bother being honest about their feelings on CHUD. It's possible to appreciate what Nick has done without agreeing with every decision he has made. It's even possible that a thread like this could prove beneficial to Nick and CHUD as a whole. Maybe instead of trying to force people to either conform to your own standards (or the standards that you apparently believe Nick has set forth for you to follow) or force people to leave, you could actually add input? Legitimate feelings regarding the topic brought up?
Maybe not.

Well, yeah. Conforming to standards that Nick wants to hold for the boards and the site is what this is really all about.

His standards are your guideline. Follow them as such. Simple.

Thank you...Your unbiased opinion has been noted and filed.

As I see it those who signed up to be Star Chamber members have little right to complain about it...lets review the list shall we...<a href="http://chuddotcom.nexcess.net/board/ubbhtml/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=66;t=000704;p=1" target="_blank">Those offering to help Nick...</a>

I said the standards you believe that he's set forth for you. I didn't say the standards he actually set forth. Big difference. I'm pretty sure Nick actually doesn't care to have a bunch of clones who agree with everything he says, and according to Nick he would like it if things got worked out on CHUD or via emails/PMs. Andre even bothered to get permission from Nick to make it obvious to the yes men that this was kosher. Congratulations on missing that.

You obviously didn't see the pain and hurt in Tommy's eyes that I saw, A-P. And thanks.

And what were Nick's guidelines except "Please be respectful"? We can't respectfully disagree?

First of all, Andre never said that Star Chamber is the root of all evil. Secondly, when Andre was volunteering it wasn't apparent that Star Chamber was going to exist as some anonymous entity such as it currently is. Thirdly, did you bother to actually read any of this before you posted it?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Nick doesn't want bootlickers. One way to be sure of that is that he gave his blessings to the creation of this thread.

Fine. I'll not visit this thread again except to say one thing: Too many have never read nor heeded the words "Don't screw it".

Or perhaps they have not contemplated the meaning.

I thought this was a thread to voice "Concerns about the boards, and crap like that"...did you bother to read the title??

That's just it. Be respectful is apparently a lot for some to handle. Django wasn't. That's why he's gone. And the fact that so many bemoan the fact that he's gone (again) is sort of disturbing.

That guy was the prime example of pissing on a free, fun thing and attempting to hurt someone else's business. He thought he was being rebellious when all he was doing was being a prick to the guy that allowed his internet alter ego to exist in the first place. In short, he was disrespectful to the boards and to Nick.

I'm just curious. There seems to be a fear of some sort of "chilling effect" on the boards because of SC and Nicks desire to "be respectful". Can someone give me an example of this that they have personally experienced?

With you....

Scathing, JenGe, that put me in my place. Never mind the fact that you openly pissed on this thread from the beginning and haven't bothered to contribute anything. We wouldn't want to cloud your sad attempt at repartee with facts.

Thank you

I can't believe so many of you are making such a big deal about Dre trying to talk this out. I agree with just about everything he said, but more than that I totally respect his attitude of getting this out in the open instead of just taking the fuck off. You folks questioning his motives in starting this thread are part of the real problem here at CHUD.

That's certainly not my intention, nor the case. I think it's more like this: The place got a little fat and lazy, and I brought an efficiency expert in and there's a violent reaction to this weird thing called RULES.

I'll be honest, my plan ain't flawless. This new for me too. I've got shit coming from all directions, and I felt that the SC would help. There's plenty of freedom of speech, except people have to realize this isn't an aqueduct wall for which to spray your graffitti. It's a movie discussion board and other forums that need to be at least remotelt adhered to.

I've got it coming from all directions, man. I've got a guy who works on my site getting into tiffs with my MB people, I've got constant hardship getting paid for ads (It's been 5 months since I got a check), and now Arsenault emails me asking for the money he gave to CHUD 2 years ago now that we're not friends anymore. All sides, people.

What happened to Django is about 2 years too late. He had his moments for sure, but he also stepped out of line a whole lot. Two of the main editors of the site told me he needed to go or they would. I still let him back and he spit in my face. He's the exception to the rule. I banned him not because of what he said on the boards but because he violated an agreement and then acted like he showed me up, when in fact all he did was show his ass.

Criticism is fine. I used to have a forum for it but it was rarely used. That said, the boards have a real problem with staying on topic (read this thread for evidence) and the point got lost. With a critism of my site or boards, I want it to be lucid and untainted. I'd also prefer it be in email so it can be addressed properly. If it's something like "I don't like your color scheme or a criticism of a comment", so be it. If it's something like "Nick, this is the Gestapo..." it needs to be private. Keep in mind that my business associates, family, and potential advertisers look in here too.

The board does very little for the site, all said. The best thing it does is allow a clear form of communication between site and readers and readers and readers. The only people who should be on here are readers. The Chewers are much less a part of CHUD now than a few years ago. There was a time when i allowed Chewers to have their own columns on the site and it went to hell. Now, I see more Chewers linking or mentioning other sites than ours. It's a weird thing.

Bottom line. It is MY CHUD, and if things work out, the bond between site and boards will strengthen rather than wither.

Look, I went over there and saw all sorts of anti CHUD sentiment. That's disrepect. The Chewers aren't a pain in my ass, but people who don't appreciate the site and have to go over there to bitch are. I make myself available. I am on the boards, on IM, in email every day. It should never get to the point where people have to go over there with anti CHUD stuff. CHUD brought most of us together, and it's selling the site and the friendships made real short.

I slagged on people because the quality of the boards is entirely in our hands. We (all the MB folk) are at fault, and it's rather convinient to say you feel a certain sense of ownership over the boards because of your contribution but not make the effort to better them.

Regarding Kirby... I'll miss him. But I miss a lot of people, too many to name. We've been here a few years now. People change. Life goes on.

It doesn't have to be so antagonistic, but I have gotten a lot harder of late, a lot less forgiving, and it's because people who should know better taking this mostly free site and boards and still acting like they're owed something.

You seem to think we are so meaningless but you take us so serious. It doesn't seem to make complete sense. Maybe it's because you're just dragged through all the shit instead of any of the good. Do you end up just reading most of the bullshit threads these days? Maybe taking a break from that would help your opinion of the board. Like Slater has been saying there is a lot of good coming from these boards but you seem to focus on the couple of dozen threads that get out of hand (out of thousands).

My biggest problem is the shit like JenGe is doing, the outright derailing of threads with off-topic posts and straight out hijacking. It's like these people won't quit until the thread is closed.

Anyhow.. Curious for an answer to the above.

Xtian, I love the chewers. Fuck, I go out of my way all the time for them. I LOVE THE CHEWERS. I have to make broad statements, and of course people think I mean everyone.

I don't mean everyone.

When I make broad statements like WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU GUYS? or WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE BOARDS? it's geared toward the people who matter and know they do and the ones who can affect change.

It's not for the troublemakers. They'll always exist and how they'll best be dealt with is ignored. I've never had a problem with most of the people (Andre, You) who've levied complaints against me.

I have to be general, but it's also more geared towards getting people moving and not being condescending or hurtful.

Chewers make my site live. BUT, most of the people on the boards are just posters, not Chewers.

I think we need a reminder as to why we all came to this site. How about a film club?

When I said I'd be a part of SC it was because I wanted to see the petty/threadkillers/bad stuff disappear from CHUD. Had I but known it would cause even more turmoil and hate...I never would have typed that post and it's a blessing I wasn't chosen to be in it. I'm not going to choose a side and you can call that a cowardly act if you wish. The fact is I wasn't directly involved with the most recent of conflicts and therefore it's not up to me to decide who's right and who's not considering I do not know the whole story.

Maybe I'm not quite the force that many of the known chewers are but I wanted to post here because I agree with Dellmorte-that we need to air this shit out or it's all going to come down...and I don't want that.

The things I want to say:

--I miss Ludwig and Kirby. Both made significant contributions to CHUD and I hope for their return sooner than later.

--I'd love to see a list of Chewers as opposed to Posters. I'm not sure what we're(everyone) supposed to think about that.

Here’s my opinion with the concept of "airing things out..." Out the 5000+ registered users, only about 8-10 of them need re-education. For the most part, the other chewers are fairly mild, predictable, polite, & cautious. These people never really start shit with each other, and rarely get noticed because they tend to compliment rather than criticize. The place has developed a prison yard mentality; if your new, then you got knock out the top dog, or become a bitch.

It’s only become this way as of late because these 8-10 people are constantly pulling some sort of illusory rank or respect stick. This mentality is contagious, not only among the new but old alike. The same 8-10 people that are causing most of the problems are the only ones that can be its solution. If they bite the bullet and eat their pride, then the boards will blossom again.

The boards have become society, and society has rules. While "freedom of speech" is a right; values, manners, & morals regulate this right as in every other society. Just because this is a virtual society does no negate, distort, or bend the rules you use in you're everyday life. Watch what you say here as you would at school, work, or public. Pride is a harsh mistress; some of you have to swallow it and move on. Sometime holding your tongue can be beneficial; it's called self-control, just as you don't say everything that’s on your mind in real life, you can’t let your mind run amuck on a message board either.

New users will join, old users will leave, but that’s death and rebirth. It's how the world has worked for millions of years, why should it be any different now? New people have to respect the rules, and old people have to adapt their rules from CHUD days past.

SHILL!!

UGB is so fixated on how newbies are treated.

You're kidding, right? For lack of a better word, that's fucking tacky.

Hmm.

There's a part of me screaming "Don't do it!" but I'll bite.

I have a question. What's the difference between a Chewer and a Poster? Cos I was under the impression that I was a Chewer, but if I'm a mere Poster then I'll sling my hook.

OK this is probably gong to come out the wrong way but here i go:

Alice, whats wrong with being 'just' a poster or was this a joke?
I have no idea what i would be and to behonest it doesnt effect me in any way, if Nick wants to list me as a 'Posters' then OK go ahead i don't need to be included in some clique so that i feel wanted and needed enough to stay around.
If there were to be such a list you would imediately get memebers of the 'Chewers' brandishing their new 'elitist' attitude and to be honest we get that on here enough as it is.
Most of the time i choose to ignore it because of the people who i would regard as 'Chewers' aren't the one with delusions of granduer.

This is nothing to do with being elite or seperate lists or any other water-muddying interpretation people choose to put on it.

I was under the impression until this morning that people that posted here were Chewers. But apparently, it's not the same thing.

I had no idea that this was the case.

I just want to know what the difference is.

That's all. Nothing more sinister than that.

I knew it would come out wrong.
I wasn't trying to imply that you personally would Alice but there are people on here who do have that kind of attitude and if they were on a list of 'Chewers' it would only serve to encourage their already bloated opinion of themselves.

Nah, it's cool, WickerMan. Maybe I'm over-reacting, but I took the impression away from the comments that Chewers were welcome whereas posters were not.

I really don't care about cliquey things and I can hardly call myself a great benefactor of the site. I'm not that arsed about the Star Chamber, although, apropos of nothing, the fact that their name is in capital letters always freaks me the fuck out. They moderate stuff. They moderate too much, and natural selection will catch up with them. They're not interfering in my good time.

I don't chat, particularly (tried it once, ended up alone with some guy I didn't recognize from the boards, and we spent five minutes in mutually embarassing smalltalk before he buggered off and left me in there alone). I don't give donations. I don't write reviews or content for the main page (I'm not in a position to do either, since I have no access, but still, I don't). My CHUD favourites is set to the news page, so I read the news before I come in, but really, that's it. I just post. That's the long and short of it. And I'm sure that I can't be the only person like that.

I just want to know if that's a problem or not.

I understand your point totally. I think i would fall under the same category.
My first port of call is the creature corner before i go anywhere else.
I do enjoy these boards and do post fairly reguarly but i rarely post in threads where someone with a differing opinion to that of a so called 'Chewer' gets slapped down for not seemingly toeing the line.
Its a shame as i dont want anyone moderating me, ofcourse if someone gets offensive then you have to make a call but for the most part i dont believe it gets that bad.

Nick, allow me to disagree on the importance of the boards.

I love the main site, but you can get movie news elsewhere. You are doing a great job with the scoops and interviews, but they are not what make CHUD unique.

The boards make CHUD unique. They are what make internet entertainment reporting different from print or TV: Interactivity.

CHUD is unique because it is a community of intelligent fans. Unlike the talkbacks, we don't have semi-illiterate, bordering on braindead, 14-year-olds here. We have a lot of opinionated, well-read people debating. A very small minority can be troublesome, but the ones that shit on the site are ostracised by the rest. The few crazies that remain can have a purpose too. They can be an amusing diversion. As far as thread derailment goes, it can be a pain in the ass, but some of the site's legendary, funny threads started out in such a way.

The boards are the heart and soul of the site. They are the reason many of us make CHUD the first site we visit every day. They are the reason we read the main page, because it is written by people we've discussed things with, even through the cold anonymity of these boards.

Andre, I didn't read anything more into your initial post than what you had requested, and if grim didn't post the link where Nick gave you the go ahead, I would have. I give you credit for wanting to bring concerns about CHUD back to CHUD. Your heart was in the right place when you started this thread.

I have no problem with Star Chamber what so ever, and that is the truth. Would I have wanted to participate? No. I would not want that responsibility. It's a tough job. A thankless job. I'm sure the members are feeling the strains individually and as a group.

Nickster, I don't go to the main page every day, but most. I like your idea of having it all centralized. I think it will be a positive step which will draw more people into film discussion. I like reading the reviews, the stories written by the MB members, the contests and partaking in the polls.

I love discussing film. Not all of them, but many. I'll continue to do so. CHUD is the only place where I do. I've never seen such a well informed group of film buffs anywhere else. There are many movie sites out there, but not like this one. But it's not just film. It's the people.

Whether I'm considered a chewer or a poster really matters not to me, because I post where I want to post. I won't limit myself as far as where I want to partake in a discussion in progress. It's the way to get to know the whole community better. We all love the boards for various topics, and I sure hope the boards stay around forever.

Edited to remove everything I'd said as I re-read Nick's post and am adhering to his wishes on this.

First off, I'd like to say I love these boards. Say what you will about it being the internet, but I've established some tangible relationships here.

Secondly, the Star Chamber hate has me completely baffled. I hate to think that if I wasn't a member of the Chamber I would be bashing and whining the way a select few of you are.

Can you see it from our point of view? We volunteered BECAUSE we love this site, and as an extension of it, these boards. We were chosen, for whatever reason (and I'm still not sure what reason factored into the decision to select little ol' moi) and asked to help keep the place in order.

I am a prolific poster. Look at my post count. Post whore or not, I spend a lot of time here. Some of you are whining about losing some of your freedom in what you say. What about the nine of us? We have to watch everything we post, because some people read negative things into it no matter what. That is a shame, and a bit of a loss for me.

Having said that, I will continue to serve as a Star Chamber member because I have great respect for Nick. For what he's done. For what he's created. For what he continues to do for us Chewers (and yes, dammit, I'm a Chewer, not a poster).

Dissent all you will, but do it respectfully. Quit whining. Stop backstabbing.

Is that so hard?

</strong>

As I said before, this is nothing new. Plenty of threads are locked or moved on CHUD with no comment from the mod who did it. It could be one of the 2 mods of that forum It could be Nick. No one knows. And no one ever cared until now.

</strong>

You just answered your own question. There's zero Star Chamber presence in this thread because we realize that it's an important subject that will naturally carry some tension, and we give it the appropriate leeway. Same for the vast majority of the Politics forum and the vast majority of the religion forum.

Again, your perception overemphasizes the amount of warnings that any of us actually give. One of us posting as ourselves simply saying "Keep it civil" or "Keep it above the belt, guys" is NOT a warning. There's no threat implied, and it's merely a request for a modicum of civility between people who are clearly set on insulting each other rather than contributing to the thread.

Also, you're using anecdotal evidence here as a representative sample of the entire boards, and it will do nothing but mislead you. We're not in that many threads even to issue warnings. We don't use the login that much. I know because we keep track all of our activity, and it's way lower than most think as I pointed out in that other forum.

Then we're damned if we do and damned if we don't.

First, you complain that we stifle conversations that can be productive and over-moderate to your perception.

Then, when we allow a thread with bickering to naturally right itself because we know something productive will come out of the subject matter, you accuse us of playing favorites.

No-win.

The biases come mostly from the people accusing us of bias. You said we were locking "tons" of threads due to your personal biased perspective, but the facts of the matter don't support that. Same deal here. Tally up some of these threads where we're letting people use bickering to defend Nick and/or SC, and I'll trump that with the number of threads where we let people slag him and us to their heart's content.

We're not here to "win." We're here to do a job that we have done steadfastly and will continue to do steadfastly.

Whoops, didn't get it before Micah quoted me...

Funny, I almost addressed this in the post but then decided it wouldn't be necessary. Re-read what I said, Micah. I said that the idea of Star Chamber was good but that the 'nudges' weren't necessary in all the cases they were showing up in. I said exceptions like people obviously trying to hijack a thread made perfect sense, and I understood why Star Chamber was issuing warnings in those cases.
We have here a thread where somebody outright admitted to attempting to hijack the thread. She is on your 'side' for lack of a better term, and she was given a pass. I'm not asking for it both ways, I'm asking for it to be consistent whether it jibes with your beliefs or not.
I assure you this is not a case of "The food was horrible and the portions were small". I'm not calling for the destruction of Star Chamber, I do believe that it still needs some refining.

Actually, those warnings do come from Star Chamber for all intents and purposes. Like it or not, the members of Star Chamber do not get the ability to completely separate themselves from the 'entity' of Star Chamber when they post with their normal logins. When you accept the badge, you kind of have to expect that. You are given a bit of power and it's certainly not fair to expect everybody else to understand when it's a Chewer hoping to steer things back to a civil point or when it's a member of Star Chamber issuing a warning. If it's a warning/nudge and it's from a member of Star Chamber, it's a warning from Star Chamber. Maybe I'm all alone on this I don't know. I've never even gotten one of the warnings, but I've been put off by a few of them when I've seen them and I do directly relate them to Star Chamber.

Not to be trite, but re-read what I said also.

SC presence here could've killed the thread. Then, it may not have yielded the answers and results we're getting now.

Your next mistake is in thinking that SC has a "side." We let people disparage both us and Nick for creating us all day long. Reams of it. Several pages worth, much in this very forum. It's appropriate expression as long as it is in the correct forum. So are the complaints of people who disagree with you, as long as it's in the corrcet forum.

The outright thread hijack threat was weak at best. The conversation remained on course without any interference from us, and gains have been made. But if we stepped in, how we would not be fulfilling your "you nudge too much" criticism as well?

eEeryone has their own opinion of where we should nudge, and what's too much and too little, and we can't follow one person's ideal without violating another's. So that means we go our own way and stick by those decisions.

I'll take the criticism that goes along with that. I just would like to see a bit more creativity. I mean "Who Watches the Watchers?"..."CHUD Gestapo"....? Weak sauce.

When's the Star Chamber 2004 swimsuit calendar coming out? Can you pre-order?

Again, these are your issues. Not ours. We can't change to suit everyone's personal issues, anymore than Nick can change CHUD or the CHUD boards to do so.

There's no reason to keep going in circles here. Something seems obvious to me, and it's something you don't see. C'est la vie.

It wasn't a mistake, Micah. There's a reason I put 'side' in quotes as well. That being said, you obviously disagree with all of the points brought up that I feel correcting would help to improve CHUD. This thread is meant as a forum for people to air problems which you most likely don't agree with, so somebody hijacking the thread before it starts really doesn't adversely effect you. I used the term 'side' for lack of a better term.

No, the conversation resumed it's course after Nick chimed in and the yes men realized maybe it was okay. This thread was fully derailed last night.

I don't even understand this, and you repeatedly use it. It's okay to rip Star Chamber as long as we're original about it? I've tried to be respectful about it, for some reason I'd think you might prefer that.