Do you really need to go to Film school?

Quite simply, no. Film School might teach you how to be a better filmmaker and all but there are a lot of directors who never went to film school nor needed it. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't go.

The value I put on the whole film school concept is that it is there to give one a chance to get their foot in the door of the studio system. The whole point to me of going to filmschool is to make as many friends a possible and work with all of them by helping in their student films. One of the friends you make might have some clout in Hollywood one day in the future and will be likely to give you a job in the film buisness because he/she knows you and knows that you work well with other people.

Bottom line if a freind trusts you to do a good job in a certain line of work they will hire you if they get the power to.

Werewolf Gurl, go read Robert Rodriguez's book, "Rebel Without A Crew". It's a quick read, and I think it would be helpful input to anyone considering a career in filmmaking.

Agree in the most.
You dont have to go to a full-time college course but i would say you still have to go to some kind of course to get an understanding of the equipment and how to get the best out of it.
Sure you can play around with a camera and lighting etc but from my own experience its quicker and more benficial to at least learn the basics from a one night a week short course than try and do it all yourself.
You can take a one day quick course and it will give you pretty much all the basic knowledge so that u can go hire a camera and get on with making the movie and not wasting your time (and money) trying to figure out what button or dial or switch does what.

Good luck

No.

You can't learn passion, and that's all that counts.

Besides, you'd probally just become jaded and pissed off and want to punch people. Like me.

Films School is less about learning how to make movies (though... it does help...) and more about getting you out into the world. It's a connection. Take me for example. I was born and raised in Birmingham, Alabama. There's not a whole lot of film goings-on in this state. Even movies about Alabama aren't filmed here... Mississippi gets all of those... it's cheaper (Big Fish is one of the few in the last decade). However, going to film school (as I will be next year) gives a lowly schmuck like me a chance. Without it, I wouldn't make much of a dent in film history. At least this way I have my shot at it.

Remember, it's not what you know...it's who you know.

Read:

Rebel Without a Crew
Gilliam on Gilliam
Art and Fear

The fact is this... however other filmmakers did it... how they made it, the connections they had, the talent they had...

You don't have any of that. Nor do I. Everyone has different connections and different talents, which is why I've never liked looking at how other directors "made it". It's nice advice, but in the end, the road you travel is going to be very different from anyone else's. It's great to have inspirations, but don't attach yourself to it.

I've seen many people try to copy how other filmmakers "made it". Copied styles, copied techniques, even tried to copy connections. Doesn't work that way. Just be yourself, learn whatever you can whenever you can, and try your DAMNEDEST. You will find your own connections. Film school helps do all of that.

Thus, its existence.

another vote for Rebel Without a Crew.

Not a big fan of "Rebel Without A Crew," though I will admit it is useful. I prefer "Feature Filmmaking at Used Car Prices."

yup, also worth reading.

as is "The Filmmaker's Handbook", Steven Katz's "Shot by Shot", and "What They Don't Teach You At Film School" by someone whose name i forget.

none of them will teach you how to make movies, of course, but they'll give you some insight and perhaps some inspiration...

What they don't teach you at film school is GOLD.

Also, I reccomend John Russo's two books, Making Movies and Scare Tactics.

I want to make the connections and be around other people with the same aspirations. In the beginning I'm starting out at a community college to get my associates in arts and take all of the writing classes, script writing, play writing, fiction writing, etc. and also all of the acting classes. I figure if I want to write scripts and make movies I want to have a basic understanding of what it means to be on the stage or set or whatever and reading a script and getting into the emotions and everything that the writer director wants. I just want to be at least somewhat well-rounded by the time i get to a university for the film degree.

Scare Tactics is great but wasnt it Sidney Lumet who had the book 'Making Movies' (which is also IMO excellant).
Russo's does have 'How to make your own feature movie for $10,000 or less' though, which i think is better than 'feature film making as used car prices', personally.

I have to disagree with this kind of. Passion is very important, Rath is exactly right on that. But, it is not all that counts. Lots of people have passion, but don't have the knowledge to make it.

Film school is not as good as just going out and making a movie. You learn by doing, not by learning theory. But, it is pretty important to learn theory, take what you believe, leave the rest behind. You can only get better by seeing what was done before, seeing what worked and what did not work, and why. You don't have to go to school to learn that, but you need to learn it.

And you will probably come out pissed off because film schools are full of self-rightous people who think anything popular sucks and only art-house films are good. Very few students are worth your time of day. You should find them and work with them. Make a movie and learn that way.

And as for "Used Car Prices," it is a great book to teach you how to make a movie on your money. It is what Vin Diesel used to teach himself. I also agree with Rebel Without a Crew as well as Bruce Campbell's book, both of William Goldman's books, Syd Fields book over screenwriting and Sydney Lumet's "Making Movies."

And watch every movie, good and bad (you learn more from bad movies than good ones). Read as many screenplays as you can find. Soak in information and be a sponge to everything. You can never have too many weapons inside you.

It does more-or-less depend on the film school. Certain film schools use different techniques to teach filmmaking. Some primarily teach theory and force-feed movies to the students, with only a little time devoted to getting the students hands-on experience. Other schools (like NCSA... where I'm going... SHA-WING!) take a larger hands-on approach with minimum classroom time. NCSA can manage that because it's a small school with a small population... but with tons of free money. You literally start filming movies the MINUTE you get there. FSU films school is sort of the same way, as are a number of schools (I'm not an expert on the West Coast schools as West Coast was not an option for me... too far away).

Class-room learning is useful... but it can only take you so far. I suggest anyone interested in film school try and look for schools with more hands-on attitudes.

YES!!! I agree completely. Here is my situation. At OU (oklahoma) there are 2 film programs. One is film and video studies which pretty much makes you read theory and watch movies. This is pretty educational, and you learn a lot about what makes movies work, but you DON'T MAKE THEM!!!

Then there is the film making program in the Art Dept. Now, this is hard to get accepted in, and it is for Art majors only, which means two things (1) they are all art snobs (2) and they only make arty films, and those who make entertaining films are looked down on.

That is the problem you face. If you go to UT (Texas), UCLA, USC or schools like that, they should prove to be perfect. Otherwise, be careful what you invest your money in. That is money you could use to make your movie.

You don't have to, but it's gonna be a bitch without it.

I've been reading many different books on filmmaking, and I can tell you, that in film school, you learn the truth to it all.

My teacher, and I can't speak for all, tells us how it is. There's no limos, no women, no $50 mill contracts, and no fame. At least, not right away. In fact, he(and other books) have pointed out that in today's age of filmmaking, the only way you're gonna direct, is if you pull a Sam Rami and make something literally out of nothing.

Why? Think of it this way. When you watch a movie, stick around and watch all of the credits. See everyone's name who's worked on the movie production? Well, they pretty much all want to direct too. And what do they have that you don't? A foot in the door.

Wether you need film SCHOOL or not is debateable, but what you do need is experience and practice with pros who can show you what you are doing wrong and how to correct it. Learn it all. ALL of it. From lighting to sound mixing to editing; don't leave any stones un-turned. The more you know, the better your chance is going to be to direct. That is, if that's your goal.

Lighting is crucial to know. What's going to distinguish your film from a good film, is lighting. You can hire or find a DP, but chances are, if you're on a micro-budget, or no budget, you'll be doing your own lighting. So learn it, and learn it good.

But look at the bright side. If you can't afford to go to film school, or just don't want to, there are bright sides. Technology is at a point where filmmaking is very possible. More so than it was 5 years ago. Thanks to hi-def video, you can makes quality-looking features. You can get a Mini-DV for less than $900 and turn out some decent stuff. So, you can actually afford to learn from your mistakes. But I like I said earlier, the more you know the better.

You think all of today's best directors were just handed directing spots? No, they worked their way up to it. You film school will help you get the knowledge you need, but it's not totally nessasry. You can make the Evil Dead for $40 and some cheese-bits and BOOM! you're directing Spider-Man.

- Fixxxer

I agree with most of your post, but this. You honestly don't learn all the truth... to pretty much anything. The fact is, Film School just gets you in the door and tell you the tricks on how to open it and how to avoid it swinging shut... Film School does not help you navigate getting around the house you just entered. Sure, it gives you some pointers ("Umm.... well, it's a 3 story house... if that helps") but the real nitty gritty can only be learned once inside.

Most film schools, are in fact, worthless. Film Schools have become so popular these days that just about EVERY university has some kind of "film" program. Students apply thinking "hey... this place will get me in the door..." But they are in all of them deceived.

For these school won't get them in the door. It won't even get them near the building. It'll show them pictures of the building and pictures of the door and, if they're lucky, pictures of inside the building. But they will not be taken to the building nor told where it is. Even the best film schools can't GIVE you talent. You have to earn that or be born with it. All a good film school can do is show you the door. You're the one that has to step through it... and there is no spoon, by the way...

You really have to search hard for a good school... I searched for about my entire High School life. The minute I knew I wanted to make movies for a living... I was out looking for schools.

WG, my advice to you is that if you can get a job working on a set... go for it first. That's not easy to come by. But, I've heard very good things about Vancouver's school (I'm not an expert on it either... sorry), so definitely look into it more deeply. Go and visit and do not be shy about asking to see EVERYTHING. If they pull a "Well... we can't show you in there..." you say back, "Well... I guess there is nothing in their, and this school is a joke..." That usually puts some ruffles in their underwear.

Hell... look into NCSA (North Carolina School of the Arts in Winston-Salem)... you might like it. And you'll know at least one Chewer there already.

Here is a funny little anectdote for you.

One of my professors is Gray Frederickson. He was the producer of The Godfather, Apocolypse Now and many other films. He is one the rare professors I have that believes making movies is more important than reading about them.

He got in some trouble last year for saying this: If you want to be a film maker, don't waste your time at this school. It will not teach you how to make movies, it will only teach you how to analyze them. If you want to make movies, pack your bags, move to Los Angeles and intern for a producer. Work your way into a film production, and learn on the job.

Faculty were not happy that he told students they were wasting their time at the school he teaches at.

But he did say you need to study and analyze films. He said to see every movie that comes out, in theaters. Every one of them. He said that is the most important thing you can do if you want to succeed in Hollywood. You learn more from bad movies than good ones, so see them all.

Here are a couple of funny true stories he said as well.

1. A guy goes to Hollywood and wants a job in the movie business. He gets the job and then moves his way up. He is finally in the position to make suggestions on movies that can be made. He suggests a movie that bears a striking resemblance to North by Northwest. When the producer mentioned that, the guy said he had never heard of the movie. The producer was dumbfounded. He told the guy to watch the classics. The guy said they were boring. The producer said, surly you have seen Citizen Kane. The guy said, no. He watched it and came back and said that it was a stupid movie in black and white and did not know what it had to do with making movies today. That guy is now selling insurance, completely out of the film business.

2. Steven Spielberg interviews all new people that want to work in his production company. Every interview will veer off into a discussion of Billy Wilder's "The Apartment." If the interviewee had not seen this movie, he will not hire them.

The moral of this story. Film schools force you to watch numerous films, for numerous reasons. You need these films. Even if you don't go to film school, hunt down the classics and watch them. See every movie you can.

Use the money you save to make your movie.

It will be interesting to see which one of us makes it first.

Price is something to think about. I don't know if this will help you any, but here it goes....

I was majoring in art, but decided to turn my major into film. The question was, where do I go to get the education in filmmaking? A big-league university, a community colledge, or an actual film school? My first thoughts were film school. Especially when I heard rumors of Hollywood being biast if you don't graduate from an actual film school. But then I asked a teacher at a community colledge and a friend of mine who majored and is currently out in California looking for work.

Basically, both broke it down like this. You're going to learn pretty much the same stuff where ever you go, it's just up to you how much money you spend. Meaning, the film schools and universities will more than likely have the new, more up-dated equipment. But with the new comes a bigger price tag.

The teacher told me, that if I had money to blow, that I should go to the film school, but he also said that if I went with a community colledge, I would still learn the basics of everything. Bottom line; if you want to waste the extra bucks, go for it. But just because you spend more doesn't mean you'll be better off in learning the trade. My friend told me that I shouldn't waste the extra dollars if I can learn the basics at a community colledge.

So with those words of advice in mind, I was pretty much leaning towards a community colledge, but the deciding factor came when I read a few books that gave the bottom line.

"You can go to film school. But bottom line is, that only a few will actually get to walk out as directors, while you spent your tuition holding a boom mic for someone else's project." Damn... those words struck me in the head like an arrow. I would have ignored that, but I've heard that more than once.

So, I enrolled in a community colledge and feel that it was a safe bet. Am I saying that to go with a local school is better than a film school? Not at all. But if you're like me, and don't have mom and pop's financial backing, then a community colledge might be something to look into.

Not words to live by, but just something to consider.

- Fixxxer

I never took a film class. My degree is in Graphic Design. I did take Dick Smith's Make Up Course and that helped me on that end, but honestly, the best thing about college is the experience and not the education, when it comes to artisic majors. Either you are natural at what you do or not. The talent is what makes the difference and going to most film schools probably will not get your foot in the door as has been said in quite a few posts. The truth IS that it is who you know as a rule. It is also true that most everyone wants to direct and there is also a saying that "Everyone has a script under their arm." I think that the best advice that I can give, is learn by experience. Whether it is making you own dv projects or working on someone elses student work. It is the best way to learn the practical end. If you really have something, then I think that word will get around. Just be patient,passionate, and realistic.

where the hell's piranhapictures? would be interested in their input on the matter.

Russo did two books, one called "Making Movies" and the other called "Scare Tactics." Lumet also did a "Making Movies," but his is not as technical as Russo's.

Bill Johnson's post is really good. Other than that, and not seeing any posts here by Kurt Wimmer or Guillermo del Toro, I'm not sure you should put too much stock in advice concerning what it takes to make it when it's coming from folks who haven't made it yet.

hmmm, good point russell! I wonder why she hasn't e-mailed George Romero or Peter Jackson for advice. Silly girl! wink

This is a good point, although I was giving the exact advice I was given by the man who was one of the producers of The Godfather, Apocalypse Now and The Outsiders. I would consider that he has made it.

I don't disagree. It seems to me that his advice, in sum, is (1) see all the classics and (2) move to Hollywood. I imagine one of the best ways to see the classics and analyze them is to attend a good film school.

Why is it?
Just because the majority of people on here haven't 'made it', no offense to Bill but he hasn't 'made it' yet as a film maker yet either, sue his points are always valid and insightful but how does that qualify him then, oh right it must be by proxy.
Lucas you have no idea who u r talking to with your generalisation. There are people on these boards that have made a living making movies, be them DTV, corporate, music or advertising. So whats ur definition of 'made it'? Do they have to have had a mega budget Hollywood move under their belts to qualify?

Well, I think I have some idea of who eye m talking to.

I guess I don't understand why you have to have directed a major motion picture in order to answer a simple question like do you have to go to filmschool. It's a rgeat question and one that I'm almost positive that has gone through everyones mind at some point. I asked the same question of myself, actually to the voices in my head, and they said there isn't a school on Earth that can make someone an established director. It's what's inside you and how bad you want it. Whether you go to school or not is something that everyone should ultimately decide for themselves. I am, starting with an associates in arts from a Community College. But I want the experience of the college, learning atmosphere as well as the knowledge so that's the best route for me. Do you have to? No! I'm not up on my director history but I gauran-god-damn-tee that there have been great directors who did not go to film school.

Besides I don't see any posts that say yes you must do this or no don't do that. They pretty much relate personal experiences and ultimately say it's up to you.

I'd say that film school is like a trade school in that it gives you practical hands on experience with equipment and the ropes of filmmaking. Tarantino may have a point in saying that if you love film that is enough, that's a hard thing to say to investors. It's sort of like having gone through an automotive repair school or something like that. It shows you have learned what to do.

The majority of directors have marginal craftmanship if one looks at the body of films released in a given year, as so much of being a director is the hustle and your reel, and your last film. Film school then allows you to build that reel, though chances are you will have to do commercials or videos or all kinds of stuff before they give you that chance. I figure film school and losing your gag reflex would be the most helpful skills in directing a movie.

"Oh, Andre, how can you say that?"

Easy. There are the elite few who make it, sure, and a few of them get taken seriously. But the Rodriguez's and Wes Anderson's seem the exception to the rule. Maybe some of you (us) will be those exceptions, but if you simply want to direct movies...

Remember what Kevin Smith and Robert Rodriguez said. If you want to make a movie, use your money to make it.

The other alternative is to use your money to have someone teach you how to make it.

Here is what I did. I went to film school and studied films. I now owe almost $50,000 to financial aid. That is one way to do it. I learned a lot, but look at what I paid.

We give opinions here. Do what I did in school. Take what helps and ignore what does not. It is all up to you.

And I wish you the best of luck. I want us all to be good enough to make it.

When does a person qualify as "making it"? As a director, no, I have not made it and would not even pretend to say so. That being said,I've been in the film business professionaly for over 15 years and I have worked on over 30 movies as a make up effects artist. A good bit of these have been union jobs and good budget films. I have got to meet and spend a good deal of time with a great deal of film makers and have seen how a lot works. I've had friends go off to film school with their dreams of making it big and have seen how it really hasn't worked out that well. These things are what I base my comments on. But as for "making it", it is always going to be a struggle in the film business. I know so many people, hurting for work, and these are people with great resumes. It is a tough business. It is more often a frustrating one than not. My suggestions are based on what I know. They are meant to help out those who may not have been around the film industry as much as myself. I may not be a Steven Spielberg, but my advice is based on experience.

Bill, I appreciated your posts and think you've given some great advice here. I hope you didn't think I was trying to denigrate your experience or your credentials.

I guess the only reason I stepped in here (ill-advisedly, I guess) is because I saw a bunch of people giving advice who don't have much in the way of real-life experience or basis for their advice. Sure, anyone who asks for advice over the internet should be sure to remember how much it cost when assessing its value, but it just seemed to me that people were being a bit too declarative in their advice when their stated experience didn't warrant that sort of tone.

I know nothing at all about the business except this: I've read enough director/producer/actor bios and puff pieces to see that there's lots of different ways to make it.

Big name film school, little name film school, storming Hollywood, storming Sundance, working at Dave's, being born to the right mother, marrying the right person, waiting tables in the right restaurant. Et cetera.

Actually, my reply was meant more toward Wickerman's reply and it was meant to explain where I am coming from. Everything is cool.

Using your own money.

That is the key.

do you really need to go to film school? no.

though it really depends on what you want to do. if you want to be the camera loader, it might be a good place to get experience. however, most people around here want to be directors(or they say they want to be DPs and are lying and want to be directors).

i haven't read any of the books being recommended, but Bruce Campbell's website and autobiography are both excellent reference points for beginning.

the things that StarvingDogs has brought up are all pretty relevant. i think his professor said it exactly right- you don't need it, just go and do it. save your cash for what you want to do.

in my opinion there are three things that you need should you want to have anything to do with filmmaking as a profession.

1.) Learn your way around a set. Werewolf Gurl said it herself- be a SPONGE. learn the lingo, the pace, the equipment. everything will come in handy at some point or another. should you 'make it' and get your shot at being a director and you don't know who is what or what something means, the crew won't respect you and if you lose your crew... so learn your way around a set. try and sign up to help with any shoot you can find. its easy to find shoots if you-

2.) move to Los Angeles- LA is where it all happens pretty much. if you want to go to film school, its either UCLA or USC(though USC is astronomically better than UCLA). At either of those schools you'll have a chance to work in an environment close to what it would be working for any sort of studio. you'll also have incredible opportuinties for internships and workshops with working professionals. Cal State Long Beach is the same way, though not as well equipped, its got some decent professors and you'll get everything done on a miniscule budget. At most film schools, you're learning how to do things with a strict deadline. You have to know how to manage time and money and people. If you hate Hollywood and the studios and just want to make independent films forever and run the festival circuit and gather a cult following, don't major in film production. which brings me to thing number 3-

3.) Have a plan B. leave yourself an out. have an escape route.

this is only my opinion. i've lived in LA my entire life and have taken many film classes, at different institutions, worked for different production houses, worked on a number of films, commercials, and TV shows both large and small. i've been a quasi-successful visual effects artist since i was a senior in high school. i work for friends that are developing features or pilots and help with storyboarding.

everyone has their own opinion on film school. i am an english major because its going to get me out of school faster and cheaper. its my Plan B.

I certainly wasnt having a dig at you Bill, my appolgies if it came across that way. It just came across as holey unfair to take your advice alone and dismiss everyone elses. When ever you post, i read because your advice is always worth taking note of.
Like you, my reply to the original question was based on my experience and the experiences of friends in the industry and all i did was relay that to the orignal question.
So to be dismissed off-hand when someone doesnt even know me or probably 80% of the other posters on here is just plain rude.
I might not agree with everyone who posts on these boards but i wont dismiss their posts as (for the majority) they're basing them on their own experience, so who am i to fob it off.

Ultimately the answer to the question is you should do what you feel works for you. There is no right or wrong answer but i personally listen to all comments regardless of whether they are Harvey Weinstein or not.

another thing. If you are not ready to pack up and move to California, that does not mean you can't start now. I am sure there are movies shooting close to you right now. Go and sign up to do whatever they want you to do. Be knowledgeable and helpful. Don't be a pest, but make sure they know you are there to do whatever they need you to do. Always pop up whenever you can during the shoot and do the best job you can.

A lady here in Oklahoma that I know is named Jill Simpson. She did just that for a little movie called Rumble Fish when it shot in Tulsa. She was basically doing everything they told her to do and more. The director was Francis Ford Coopola. She worked so hard for them that they gave her a good referal for another movie. With a title this time (casting assistant). A few movies with that title and she moved up to assitant to producers and then to production coordinator. Recently she was the executive coordinator for the movie Igby Goes Down.

All this just because she decided to stop waiting and finally took a short drive to see if she could hook up with a film being produced close by.

If you want in the business, don't wait for it to come to you. There is no better place to learn the business then from inside the business.

Just to let you know there are ways in even if you don't have the money to do your own thing right now. It just takes work.

I´m 20 now, left school a month ago. I have the 2nd highest school-ending which is to get. The highest would have been "abitur", which means that you are allowed to go to university.
I swore to my real fathers life, whom I have not seen for 16 years that I WILL give everything to get my foot in the door of my dreams, which is to work in the US movie business.
I don´t like the german movie, the style of it, the stories, the whole thing. It wouldn´t be a good alternative for me. Now I´m thinking what to do?
Working in little jobs until next year and fly with a visum, money and great ambition to the USA ?
Or learning a job like photograph or sth like that and THEN coming to the USA ?
There are no movie colleages here, only filmschools and academies, but they are either really expensive or have deadly tests and only about 2 to 10 people they take.

Well good luck in whatever route u choose.
What are the main Movie producers in Germany? Do they have internships you could apply for?

Remember, even if you don't like the German style of movies, it will help you learn if you do intern for some of them. Part time intern to work around your work schedule at least (you still gotta make a living). That way when you do come to the US, you will not be starting new, but will have experience that will help you get your foot in the door.

And best of luck to you. You sound like someone who really wants to succeed. I hope you do.

Do you have to go to Film School? I didn't. But that doesn't mean you should not. But remember that Film School doesn't assure anything in this wacky business. The connections you make there could... That's what it's all about - networking, the schmooze. I hate it it, but it got me some gigs. Moving to LA is also important. But it's no bed of roses. But...get out and make a film! Use anything and everything you can.
I wouldn't use my own money. For every Kevin Smith, there's 100 guys in bankruptcy right now...
Good Luck!

I look at it like this. If you don't already know you can make it one way or another. If you're not confident enough in your abilities to know that you are better than 90% or more of the rest of the people trying to make it. Then you probably won't ever make it and you should be a pharmacist cause they are makin tall cash these days! Plus $5 - $10,000 signing bonuses. Access to all of those drugs is a nice perk as well!

bullshit.

as has been proven time and time again in the fimmaking industry, it's not always what you know, it's who you know.

there are probably thousands of film school grads or otherwise qualified people out there who just don't have the connections, communication skills or simple serendipity to crack through.