Matt's BEAUTY AND THE BEAST review

Maybe I have to see the film again, but eh?

Bullshit.

I mean, I meant no disrespect or anything but 3.0 is a little harsh.

The "adult" me hasn't seen the film....the 10-year old me loved it when it came out.

I'll have to re-watch it.

Some may find this look "refreshing" but I find it just sad. I mean, Hindmarch makes some interesting points, but I find it mostly silly.

I also find it to be one of these examples where the dislike of the film spills over into the other reviews. Sound gets a 7 based on complaints from others? I want what the reviewer thinks, not hearsay.

However, I do agree on the disc art front, should have just gone with the red rose.

One final note: The screencaps were hilarious, especially the one about Nunziata's 8000 copies of The Hunchback of Notre Dame II.

Right on, Blo.

Especially on the Dion tip.

I've never disagreed with a review as much as this. But it is well written.

All I know is, it's not long enough a review to merit a 3.0 score. A Walk To Remember got a higher score from him I think.

Actually, according to him that film is on par with Beauty and the Beast.

I'm not gonna say a word.

"I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
--Voltaire

I totally, totally, totally, TOTALLY disagree with you and my jaw dropped while reading your review, but you presented an interesting and well-written look at a beloved film. And I can see where you are coming from. But I disagree.

Okay. So Verbal disagrees 4-posts worth, and what does the length of the review have to do with anything?

Disagreement is good.

I'm appalled at this film, and the message it provides to our young ladies who dream of finding their own prince. Appalled.

Matt, I did not take the "surround" issue into accout when choosing my sound grade.

Very interesting review. I'm in Blofeld's camp, although probably not as extreme. In fact, after I saw it in the theatre I asked my mom (yes, we went as a family and I was sheltered. Don't mock, fuckers) why she loved him when he acted like such a jerk.

And I thought the caps were fun.

I liked A Walk to Remember more.

Wow... I can't say I've ever heard of anyone feeling this way about Beauty and the Beast. I haven't seen the movie in a long time and I've always thought it was overrated up to wazzo (the bit about the singing and dancing kitchen utensils never really sat right with me... even if you use the "it's a kids' movie" excuse). DAMN good review, Blo-head... even if it's a little harsh. Shit... reviews should be harsh.

I never actually thought of the Beast as a mysoginistic character before, but that review made me think. You could almost argue that Belle got that syndrome where the kidnapped person falls for the kidnapper, and in fact it's not real love at all. There are noble thoughts in the movie itself, with Belle sacrificing herself to save her grandfather. I always maintained that the beast kidnapped Belle out of mere desperation because of the curse laid upon him by the witch. Still doesn't make it desireable I suppose, but does Belle every really get harmed by the Beast? She loses her freedom, yes, but the worst the Beast does is lock her up for a few days (first in a prison cell then just on the castle grounds). Yeah, kidnapping is still wrong, but given the Beast's desperation to break the curse and the effect the curse must have had on him after all of those years, it is explainable (if not right). Interesting take on the film, and one not easily dismissable. Having daughters myself, they don't dig this movie very much. Little Mermaid is King Diamond in our house, as is Shrek.

I cut a line I wrote in the review about Disney's Stockholm Syndrome.

The Beast does a lot of screaming, slamming doors, threatening -- "If she doesn't eat with me, she doesn't EAT AT ALL!" -- and just generally bad behavior that shouldn't be awarded with love.

After Belle starts to "fall" for him, after they've shared a dance, some bird feeding, some googly-eyes, Belle gets sad and mentions that she'd like to see her father again. The Beast lets her go. He lets her go.

Uggh.

I think if you're gonna strongly lash out at a beloved Disney classic, you oughta be thorough about it....more thorough than you were, at least in my estimation.

But it's neither here nor there.....it's your opinion and that's that. And I respect it.

There only seems to be praise for what you heard, so I'm just wondering how it warrants a 7.0?

Also, this is not a tale about "Stockhome Syndrome" First, Belle is a good person. Second, Beast is not a nice person because he was stuck up to begin with, and then he got changed into a monster. Yes, I think after that incident, anyone would be in good spirits. The Beast has every right to be pissed. And furthermore, she CHANGES him. She has a good heart (she WANTS to leave, but she's a woman who keeps her word) and she helps changes her back.

I think it's a good lesson to kids about trying to find the good in others. Sometimes it may seem like it's there to everyone else (Gaston) but other times it's very difficult to see. A childish message I'll admit, but it's at least uplifting.

I guess I just think Blo's review is pretty cynical for a movie such a this.

The review was a bit harsh, 3 was a bit too low, but each reviewer is different.

The captions, my friend, were great.

While I don't go as far as Blofeld, I was bothered by the ending -- how perfect that, after being told for 80 minutes how it's what is on the inside that is important, the Beast turns into your standard Prince Charming. Way to let Belle have her cake and eat it too. It's classic Disney -- have your lead character make a difficult choice, then have the result of the choice almost completely negate the lesson learned in making it. They pulled the same crap with Tarzan -- he decides to let Jane go, to stay with his "family," only to have Jane leap off the boat and stay with him anyway. Having the Prince be somewhat plain (ala Shrek) and having Tarzan watch the boat sail away and knowing he's made the tough, but right choice, would have made both films much more satisfying and powerful. But once again Disney cops out.

Then again, we are talking about the people who gave Hunchback a happy ending, so I shouldn't be surprised.

Guys... this is Disney we're talking about. They make movies for kids... not you. I don't think kids would like it if the hero died at the end or if the two main character were separated even if they make the right choices. Kids like happy endings... seriously, give it a rest.

I'm not saying you can't criticize the movie from an adult perspective, but attacking happy endings in a kids movie seems to be a wee bit naive.

And, I'm just going to jump a step ahead here, there are movies made for kids just like there are movies made for adults. While Disney movies CAN be enjoyed by adults, they are, for the most part, made for children to enjoy. Beauty and the Beast is an example of a film that's not too sure what it wants to be... as it has a message that kids probably don't need to be taught, but at the same time has singing kitchen utensils. Go figure.

ET is arguably a children's film, but you didn't see ET turning the spaceship around and coming back to Elliot, did you? And that film did okay at the box office.

Outstanding review!

I have no idea if your right or not but you have certainly made it so I have to go & take another look!

An extremely solid review, Matt. Everything in me is screaming that you're wrong, but I believe your thoughts to be sincere and you articulated them wonderfully.

Your captions on the other hand were way off, we kill people that don't like Halo.

Yes, but Spielberg has to make his endings as tear-jerking as humanly possible. C'mon..."I'll be right here..." isn't going to upset kids in a way that's a downer. It's not like E.T.'s spaceship crashes into the side of a mountain as he flies off.

I need to go watch this again...

Once she sees pansy boy, though, I imagine she wants Mr. Tough back. Nice guys are suckers, right? Bad boy syndrome.
We don't do anything nice....and EASY, we only do it nice....and RUFF.

Daimen Ruud - POMPOUS ASS.

Do you even have kids? Where the fuck do you get off berating Matt's parenting skills simply because he has a different view of what Beauty and the Beast is about? Maybe read the review again and come up with a view of your own rather than just belittle the reviewer, fuckstalk.

Seriously, unless you've met the guy, studied life in his house, how he raises his kid, have kids of your own, and you're a freakin social worker, then maybe you can give advice on how to parent.

Otherwise, don't tell someone else to be a parent. I disagree with his point, but I don't know where you get the gall to tell a perfect stranger how to raise their kid.

Damien, did you even remotely consider his argument before attacking his parenting skills?

Anyone who has spent a signifigant amount of time on these boards knows Blofeld is one of the best parents ever, bar none. He loves his kids, he truly loves them and does everything he can to make them happy. He's an inspiration, and for you to attack him was shitty. Downright shitty.

Thank you.

BTW, I HATE the ending to Beauty and the Beast. It fucking sucks donkey ass.

And I always felt that Shrek's ending was kind of a cop-out, but that's a different story.

Actually, we do need to be careful what messages we send to our children - especially as children use stories, books and movies as a way to explore emotions and situations they haven't been able to experience for real. If the movie succeeds, then kids will be absolutely enthralled by it, and take on board whatever subtexts lie within. As a parent, you need to keep careful watch over what entertainment is teaching your kids, and try to counteract the messages you see as wrong or misleading.

For instance: Grease teaches us that in order to win back a guy who has treated you like shit, you should dress like a slut and become the kind of girl he wants you to be.

So although Matt's review was ferocious, and obviously provokes an emotional response from people who saw the movie as kids and never thought about the underlying themes, that doesn't make his point any less valid. The "message" of Beauty & The Beast can be taken as "if a man is violent and abusive, stick with him and eventually you can change him". That's the mantra of battered wives all around the world. It's not wrong to point that out.

Some people may not see this message in the movie, and that's the great thing about movies - everybody takes away something different. I doubt that on it's own this movie could cause any serious damage to a young girls worldview, but it's the right of every parent to pick and choose which messages they want their kids exposed to. Given that this is a kids movie, and many people would buy it for their kids, I think it's very useful for Matt to point these things out.

Just because I lay my opinion out there doesn't make it some kind of gospel. Do you really think that anything I say here has any bearing on that actions of Blofely in the real ] world? I don't think so.[/QB][/QUOTE]

Sorry, but that response is - and always has been - horseshit. Nobody is saying your opinion is "gospel", just that it's wrong to say what you did. You don't call someone a "lazy" parent, and then claim that it's just your opinion, and therefore harmless.

Of course it's your opinion - that is precisely what makes it so offensive, because it's based on no evidence and yet cuts to the very heart of a man's personal life. Do I think that your words have any bearing on the actions of Blofeld in the real world? No, probably not. But words like that still hurt like fuck, and the fact that you think they're meaningless doesn't give you the right to throw them around. In fact, it gives you every reason to think twice before posting shit like that.

You are an unthinking fuckweed - but don't take offense, that's just my opinion. It's not gospel or anything.

Although I'm merely doing it to prove a point. Why did you reply? Doesn't the fact that it's "just my opinion" render the insult impotent?

Who said you would? I'm just pointing out that questioning someone's parenting skills because of one DVD review is crossing the line of polite behaviour. Nobody's said that Blofeld should be crying in his beer over this.

I agree with this statement 100%. I disagree with the review.

THIS POST IS NOT ABOUT DEFENSIVENESS, BUT IS ABOUT CONVERSATION, TO CONTINUE SOME OF THE PIECES OF THIS DIALOGUE:

From my review:

You see, Damien, she was not denied access. But I know what her response to the first viewing was ... she was enraptured. For several weeks following she waltzed around the house BEING Belle, and wanting me to be The Beast. She wasn't asking for me to be abusive to her ... because she's got no concept of abuse. She was, simply, BEING the film the way both of my children totally embrace the stories that capture their imagination.

It is incumbent upon parents to filter their children's exposure to the world -- consider it directing the spray of their experience rather than simply placing the hose on full-blast and flooding their soil garden. Not much grows if you do that.

I'm horrified at the tales my son tells me of his peers (in the first grade when he reported these things to me) talking about seeing Jaws and Saving Private Ryan -- not that I have anything negative to say about the message of those films, as a matter of fact BOTH of those films will be shared with my kids -- when the time is appropriate.

I choose to present models of healthy fantasy. Beauty and the Beast is not one of those. It does, as Whitehead stated, present the argument of a battered woman's justification as light and frothy "entertainment."

Plus, I don't want my daughter fantasizing about Robby Benson.

Actually, Damien, this is the most insulting thing you've said (from the other thread):'

.

Trust me, this is the way I truly feel.

You know, Verbal, I'd written a much longer piece, but edited it down to minimize the chances of you simply skimming the review.

I'm gonna avoid this review until the DVD arrives and I see the movie.

I disagree with the review (though Blo makes excellent points and it is courageous and well written) but I agree with Poxy. It would have been much better if he had been homely.

I think from what I've seen Blo is an excellent Dad and if I felt as strongly about a movie as he did I would protect my daughter from it as well.

Poxy is right, the fact that the Beast turns into a handsome man, and the fact that Belle sees a portrait of him BEFORE falling in love, hobbles the intended message. Belle comes off rather shallow.

Blo, I can't fault you for being a good father. It's in every parent's best wishes that their son/daughter grows up with a certain view of things, and if you're trying to protect your son or daughter from conflicting views of what you would want them to learn.....damn good for you. I said I disagreed with your review and said it was bullshit and that it wasn't long enough (and I DID read the whole thing) but that said.....the issue at hand is the message it sends to young girls and the fact that you point this out and took a chance that many other reviewers would not take is pretty brave.

After thinking about it, that's where I stand...

Brilliant!

And I really liked your review. How many other people would have the balls to say what they truly feel about a film that is considered a classic by most people?

An excellent read.

Haha, nice! And great review. I'd like to take a side on this but I haven't seen the flick since it's opening in theatres, so this will be a definite rental...

I also had problems with the fact that Belle's father is apparently able to march back and forth at will from the town to the castle, but the second Belle tries to leave the castle she's set upon by wolves so the Beast can make a heroic rescue.

Yeah but his senile butt gets lost in the woods for how long, like
the whole dang winter ! Wandering around in the cold.

But isn't that like all women?

Kidding...

I'm like Nick, I love the movie, and I dig Gaston a lot. I guess he reminds me of Bruce Campbell. I only recently saw it, and had a lot of fun with it.

My problem, Damien, is that I don't believe that the theme "...wouldn't even be understood, let alone dwelt on by its target audience." The issue is one of normalization of something I don't wish her to embrace in her relationship years. You can bet I'll be involved in her life and her decisions in that regard, but the seeds for what is acceptable and what isn't are sown very early in life.

I don't have a problem sharing the violence in Jaws or Saving Private Ryan at the appropriate time because those films are filled with characters doing noble things: for family, for community, for society.

There isn't a single film that doesn't have violence -- it is a fundamental building block of conflict and story. The aim of the story is what's important.

I don't for a moment believe that Disney had an agenda -- you'll notice in my review that I called the message an "ill-unintended" one. I do feel that, especially as the producers of entertainment for children, they owe a greater deal of care toward the choice of their story material.