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Matt's BEAUTY AND THE BEAST review - Page 3

post #101 of 130
Great review, Blo!

With the exception of three, (Peter Pan, Lady & the tramp, Dumbo) I have never had no use for the animated Disney prop machine so this is a refreshing change.

I have always hated "The Little Mermaid" for similar reasons.

The main character becoming stupid all for her man.
post #102 of 130
Quote:
Damien Ruud:
uh-oh, i'm not a good one...must mean i'm a bad one
Yep. You're a cock. Now accept it and move on.
post #103 of 130
Well I'm not intimate with Blo as you seem to be Jason, so it might have got by me that his daughter was still a toddler. And it's not really a lapse in logic, I mereley mentioned Pretty Woman because, for me, it vehicles the same kind of twisted message to little girls that Blo sees in Beauty and the Beast.
post #104 of 130
Jason, I was glad to assist. I'll consider changing "bread" to bred, if you'll tell me WTF is Paprika Chicken, babeeeee? LOL
post #105 of 130
Quote:
RathBandu: Gone Rogue:
What is pulling a Rath, exactly?
A full on reversal in the face of scorn, a la <a href="http://chud.nexcess.net/board/ubbhtml/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=45;t=000197" target="_blank">http://chud.nexcess.net/board/ubbhtml/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=45;t=000197</a> . Please take no offense (thus the smiley). S'ok to change your mind you just seem to do it a lot. Have the courage of your convictions.
post #106 of 130
Quote:
Virgil 'Blunt' Abrizza:
I mereley mentioned Pretty Woman because, for me, it vehicles the same kind of twisted message to little girls that Blo sees in Beauty and the Beast.
You're absolutely right.

Julia says she wants the fairy tale.

I think Beauty and the Beast IS the fairy tale she wants.
post #107 of 130
But wait, don't forget <a href="http://chud.nexcess.net/board/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=13&t=001234&p=" target="_blank">this</a> gem.
post #108 of 130
Coming in late, but just wanted to tell Blofeld that he's echoed my wife's rants on B&B almost word for word. And Cinderella ain't much better.
post #109 of 130
good review. i'm glad the over-praised 'beauty and the beast' finally got kicked in the nuts.
post #110 of 130
Thanks, Japanese. I simply don't understand your post. I'd like to.

The Beast isn't "jilted" in the film. He gets the girl ... it's the manner in which the fairy tale ideal is presented, the message that could be taught to young women -- young women who are already in danger from societal messaging, that I object to.

If you're referring to my own personal problems of late, they don't factor (I'll admit, at least consciously) in my opinions of the film. My ire is directed at The Beauty and the Beast's message to my daughter, to any daughter.

I do not wish her to expend the energy LOVING someone because she believes that all that person needs to change IS her love. I don't want her subscribing to the notion that abuse is okay, in any form, for any reason. I don't see how that has anything to do with my impending divorce.

Oh, and my opinion on this film was formed prior to my separation/divorce. Prior to my time in the hospital. Prior to my being "jilted." I tried to approach this viewing for the review with a clear slate, to give the film a chance ... and my problems were still there. So I wrote about them.
post #111 of 130
Regardless of whether I agree with it or not, I just want to say this was a really really good review, Blo.
post #112 of 130
It's usually not the most effective bit of parenting to try to explain a negative message while the message itself bakes your child a large chocolate cake of happiness through the magic of song, dance, and utensils.
post #113 of 130
Quote:
General Zod Vs. Ratner:
I have always hated "The Little Mermaid" for similar reasons.

The main character becoming stupid all for her man.
Actually Blo said Little Mermaid was one of his favorite Disney films. While I like both movies I think Little Mermaid is probably more sexist then B&TB. Ariel(sp) changes everything about herself after seeing the main guy once at least Beast and Belle had a period of dislike, mutual understanding and then friendship before the love story sets in. I said it before but here it is again, I think the friendship that develops in B&TB is more important to the story than the falling in love aspect.
post #114 of 130
Quote:
japaneseguitar:
...some scruffy looking asshole...
Who's scruffy-lookin'?

And just for your information, I'm the brash, handsome rogue...
post #115 of 130
Quote:
Damien Ruud
[QB]Look, for all intents and purposes nothing Blofeld...has ever written in a post, comment, or review outside of this thread has ever provoked the sort of response which I produced in response to this review.[QB]
Holy shit - you brag about being a cock now? Pat yourself on the back...

And you think you've produced a response?

Baby, I've posted Billy Madison-esque gibberish that's made a bigger dent. I'm internationally know like Rob Base.

You're just...Paprika. No deal.

Quote:
Damien Ruud
[QB]...has ever provoked the sort of response which I produced in response to this review.[QB]
Unreal. You are quite the provocateur.

When your amazing writings do what Smilin' Jack's do, or Nick's do, or Django's did - or even MINE (someone so dirt fucking low on the internet movie totem pole as to go nearly unnoticed) - then we'll talk about what a valuable asset you are.

Until then...
post #116 of 130
Interesting idea, there, otis.

Had Beauty and the Beast not become a love story at the end, but a story about the redemptive power of friendship or something, there'd likely be a lot less complaints about poor female role models, etc.

Curious what Blofeld, Jason, and the other antis think about this idea:

As soon as you involve love, it becomes about a pseudo-abusive relationship. If it just involved friendship, it would be about reaching out to a fellow human being, who's grown cold after years of isolation and pain. If you stretch it even further and remove sex from the equation by making Belle another male (non-homosexual), it's a non-issue.

Isn't this double-standard just as insulting to women, as it assumes any woman who would befriend or fall in love with this fellow is weak?

Perhaps the only reason the relationship worked at all is because Belle was strong enough to not become a doormat and to reach out to this guy who's obviously torn up inside, despite his outbursts and such.
post #117 of 130
Good points DB.
post #118 of 130
I also think the word abusive is misleading in this case. I implies a relationship that is not there. The Beast doesn't imprison Belle as some sort of toy, he does it because he is the Beast, people are mean to him so he is mean right back. First half hour Beast and Belle don't like each other. Second half hour they learn from each other why they are the way they are and a tentative friendship develops. Third half hour they fall in love because someone always falls in love in a Disney movie. I just don't think kids would take anything more from this movie than the above and maybe a fun song or two.
post #119 of 130
Quote:
japaneseguitar:
[b]Nah, that would be me. You're the brash, handsome rogue, remember?
I AM indeed.

But that doesn't mean you can find my opinion of a film on its one sheet - nor can you catch me on CNN.
post #120 of 130
Personally, I love the movie. But hey, diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks. I applaud Blo for giving his opinion. We need more movie reviewers with the balls to say what they REALLY think about movies (I know for a fact that I've given positive reviews to movies on my own website that other critics have despised).

But I've got to wonder...

Until reading this review, I'd never even considered the "abusive relationship" aspect of the story. So how many grade school-aged girls are going to pick up on that?

Or am I just a dense moron?

Quote:
<strong>Plus, I don't want my daughter fantasizing about Robby Benson.
And who could blame you?

BTW, after hearing this guy talk in interviews on the DVD, I can't help but wonder HOW in the HELL he's got the same voice as the Beast. Might as well have got Michael Jackson to do the voice.
post #121 of 130
I swear the beast was really voiced by Michael Dorn.
post #122 of 130
Funny, I had the same thought while watching...
post #123 of 130
Quote:
Charles E. Brigden:
I swear the beast was really voiced by Michael Dorn.
I think you're right.
post #124 of 130
I just finished reading Blo's review, and I must admit that I felt like giving a knee-jerk response. One such reason is that I quite enjoyed B&TB. I just got the DVD and I'll give it a spin soon and bear in mind Blo's review.

DaveB brought up some excellent points and I will consider it as well while watching the film.
post #125 of 130
I just finished watching the movie while bearing in mind Blo's review. Even before posting my thoughts, I made sure that I re-read the review. Anyway, I know that the low flick score was not based on the "thought-provoking" perspective, but I do want to express my disagreement with it.

Quote:
The message, I suppose, is intended to be that “beauty is only skin deep” and that one must look deeper to see the true heart and soul of another. Not a bad message, huh? Yep, that no matter if someone kidnaps and imprisons your father, and then you, that no matter how loudly they scream at you, or how forcefully they slam doors in your face, no matter how controlling, no matter how threatening, no matter how downright abusive they are, all you have to do is love them enough and they’ll turn into a prince and you’ll live happily ever after. Good message. Come here, daughter ... let me teach you just how much crap you have to accept in the name of love.

Dangerous.
I think this is reading too much into the movie (and I'm a person who deeply read into films' messages and symbolisms). The father was not kidnapped, but was imprisoned for trespassing. As a Beast, he had every right to kill a trespasser (such as in PRESENT DAY America, where we can shoot-to-kill any intruder), but in this case, he was quite lenient with the father's plight.

As far as being "abusive" -- they were NOT in any type of romantic relationship to begin with. Belle was just the trespasser's daughter. That's it. She's a prisoner. But in this case, she's a prisoner who can freely roam the castle except the West Wing. Again, a very lenient sentence -- from a Beast.

Remember, Belle ESCAPED the castle when the Beast scolded her about being in the West Wing where the enchanted flower was. She's no weak-kneed girl, but a girl who takes initiative when she knows that things are not quite rosy.

She escapes -- but then, the Beast RESCUES her.

And that's when a small form of relationship occurs. And it's even in that dreaded Celine Dion song:

Barely even friends, then somebody bends, unexpectedly

In a tumultuous start, both strangers, something happened. Both learn to accept and love each other.

If the story starts off with Belle in a relationship with the Beast and he continues to mistreat and abuse her, then I will agree with your opinion about this "ill-unintentioned message for our youngsters." The thing is, it's NOT there, in my opinion. Furthermore, does the Beast abuse Belle AFTER her rescue?

Before the rescue, she was a prisoner and he was a captor. After the rescue, she and he were both friends.

Despite what seemed to be an impossible match, turned out to be not at all.

THAT is the message of "Beauty & The Beast." There is no underlying message of spousal abuse and foolish love with an abusive husband.

Quote:
“Beauty and the Beast” may be the most beloved Disney animated film. It may have been nominated for a Best Picture Oscar in 1991. It may have been developed into one of the most successful Broadway musicals of the last several decades... but it is irresponsible film making. My daughter will not see this film again if I have anything to say about it. The message I want her to learn is that her love is a precious thing to be given ONLY to a man who loves her in return, that mutual respect and kindness are prerequisites of such an exchange of love, and that she can kick anyone’s ass who dares attempt the misogynistic ideals this film passes off as normalized courting ritual.
Before I continue, I'm speaking from a different perspective. I'm a gay man, and some of you know this. Now, Blo, what if your daughter ends up being a homosexual? Do you see where my question is leading to?

I will return to DaveB's observations:

Quote:
A Rush of DaveB to the Head:
Had Beauty and the Beast not become a love story at the end, but a story about the redemptive power of friendship or something, there'd likely be a lot less complaints about poor female role models, etc.

Curious what Blofeld, Jason, and the other antis think about this idea:

As soon as you involve love, it becomes about a pseudo-abusive relationship. If it just involved friendship, it would be about reaching out to a fellow human being, who's grown cold after years of isolation and pain. If you stretch it even further and remove sex from the equation by making Belle another male (non-homosexual), it's a non-issue.

Isn't this double-standard just as insulting to women, as it assumes any woman who would befriend or fall in love with this fellow is weak?

Perhaps the only reason the relationship worked at all is because Belle was strong enough to not become a doormat and to reach out to this guy who's obviously torn up inside, despite his outbursts and such.
Blo, you are assuming that it's always about SEXUAL LOVE when it involves a woman and a man. I guess if Belle was a man, then it's only PLATONIC FRIENDSHIP that can come out of it. Not that I'm optimistic enough to see a Disney-related film that involved homosexuality (except for stereotypic drawings and mannerisms of secondary characters), but I'm just pointing out that you are actually underestimating children.

The beauty of watching a children's film is that it's worthy of your time to discuss it afterwards. However, the tough part is that YOU found this "ill-unintentioned message." As a parent, you know what's best for your child and no one has the right to tell you what's what.

But as a fellow film lover, I do want to tell you that such an "ill-unintentioned message" is NOT there. I do urge you to give the film another chance and see whether what I've said is completely off-base.
post #126 of 130
Thanks, Voltes. I appreciate that you took the time to carefully view and reflect.

My opinion is based upon the same thoughtful viewing and reflection. My opinion stands as communicated.
post #127 of 130
Damn, I guess there's nothing for me to add anything else, eh?
post #128 of 130
Great review, Blo!

I have no use for all, but three Disney animated flicks (Dumbo, Lady & the Tramp & peter Pan) glad to know I was not the only one who did not care for this.

I have similar dislike for "Little Mermaid", but that is for another thread.
post #129 of 130
Hey Zod, are you aware that your post sounds exactly like the post you did three days ago and can be found on page 2 of this thread?
post #130 of 130
Well, I'm not going to go into full explanatory detail but for the record, I liked Beauty and the Beast. There I said it.
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