Ishii the Killer

Ichi


Jes...I have also pre-ordered it along with Suicide Circle



well worth the blind buy

I've seen Ichi the Killer at the Columbus marathon. It's beyond fucked up. If nipple slicing, gobs of man spew and rape fantasies is your bag, then I say have at it.

It's demented, that's for sure. It's not likley I'll see it again. It doesn't suck, it's just not my thang.

I'll be one of the naysayers before the Asian Film Thread posters arrive with their accolades.
This is the one of the worst films I have ever seen, and I don't say that lightly. When it wasn't completely revolting (and I'm not easily revolted, mind you), it was painfully dull.
I wrote about this somewhere in the Asian thread, citing more specific reasons, but suffice it to say that I can't remember a more grueling film-watching experience.
You have my condolences on this purchase.

heheheh


but you forget....I sat through Signs




OI-VEY!!! WHAT A SHUNDAH!!!

Visitor Q




only watched that one twice.....and that was one time too many

that was someone else with the hamster movies



but I still wouldn't mind seeing them




I'm not gonna blind buy those



not until I get the IMPORTANT DVD's first

I've never understood "blind buying" DVD's.
Don't you people have bills to pay?

It should be noted that there will be 3 different versions of ICHI THE KILLER released in the US.

An R-rated version that is missing a whole chunk of the film and that was made for Blockbuster and all those stores who are too Christian to carry Unrated films, which are the Devil's work as everyone learns in Bible Study ...

Then there's the Unrated version of ICHI that is uncut and uncensored.

Those two will be released on the 18th of November.

Then, at some later date there will be a 2-disc special edition called ICHI THE KILLER - THE BLOODY EDITION or some such nonsense.

Now take your pick and choose wisely lest double dip will bitchslap you ...

And if you're just getting into Miike, for chrissakes don't judge the man solely on the grounds of the films that have made it to the US so far. AUDITION, ICHI, VISITOR Q and DEAD OR ALIVE are all pretty extreme, violent and "fucked up".

But they come from the same director who has made the deeply moving period drama SABU or the poetic BIRD PEOPLE IN CHINA.

He has directed a ton of much more serious yakuza/gangster films, most notable in my opinion BLUES HARP, NEW GRAVEYARD OF HONOUR, GUYS FROM PARADISE, RAINY DOG and LEY LINES.

There are a few more films that fall into the extreme category of his output that have yet to see a US release like VIOLENT FIRE or FULL METAL YAKUZA.

But it always makes me sad when people dismiss Miike as a pervert or a freak when they have only seen one or two of the over 60 films he has made in the last 15 years. He is so much more than just Mr. Freak Show.

Lets not forget City of lost Souls and Happiness of the Katakuris or Fudoh..

I would say get Ichi if only to have good fucked up movie to show your friends (I got one buddy who cant make it thru the opening Title ) while not as good as alot of people say it still has alot going for it.

There's no denying the man has some form of talent. I'm sure he isn't just Mr. Grossout. I was well aware that the man made something like six flicks in a year. But If you're blind buying, I'd get Happiness of the Katakuris over Ichi any day. That's the more enjoyable film.

ICHI not withstanding...

Miike is great at making you think you saw something when you actually didn't (see FUDOH, a lot of the gore happens offscreen but you remember it as being ONscreen, very strange)

Yeah, you can't discount Miike as being a pervert (like Larry Clark, hehehe I had to get that jab in there) He makes wildly different films.

IMO he is one of the 5 or so best directors currently working today. This guy is a force of nature, undeniably talented.

here is what I do


Order movie and forget I did so


when the bill comes in I paninc and shuffle money around


at the end of the day I have my DVDs, bills are paid, and only 1-2 people are hurt

HARDCORE fucking movie. This movie leaves very little out of it. Some good gore, great violence, but horrid CGI.

Though I like this flick and own the 2-disc uncut version, I sure as shit couldn't recommend this movie to anyone. A lot of people I showed it to, I thought could handle it, but I was wrong. They either thought it was too much violence, too confussing, or too long, which I think it does run a bit too long.

The only problem I have with this movie, is the unclear ending. I've said it before, and I'm sticking to it; the asian/japanese do not know how to end their movies. Of course there are exceptions, but for the majority of the asian horror films I've seen, they have great build up, but I never understand why they end their movies the way they do.

- Fixxxer

I forgot how horrible the CGI is. It is terrible indeed. But about that friggin' ending.




******************SPOILORS*****************
Well kinda anyhow. I didn't quite get it myself, but it was like five in the friggin morning at a marathon so it was bound to be hazy. However I overheard someone talking about it, and the theory was that the whole event was the guys fantasy. The guy being the one with the slits on his face and who was into the torture and whatnot. Cause at the end you can plainly see that the gash Ichi gave him was never actually there. He just fell from the roof. Or some such shit....
******************END SPOILERS**************



If I be wrong, correct me and explain it if you can.

BLUES HARP is awesome! It's a real powerful and emotional film. How your video store can have it puzzles me though. The only legitimate release of the film outside of Japan is the German DVD which has English subs as well but I rather doubt that's the one they have ... Could that be the Cannibal King ebay boot? At any rate, grab the film next chance you get! There's no rape in it whatsoever, not even any violence towards women. Some rather strong homoerotic overtones though that may not be to everyone's taste but if you can take my posts here you should be allright with BLUES HARP too ...

While I don't like many of the violent grindhouse flicks of the 1970's (I Spit on Your Grave and Last House on the Left as examples), I do like Ichi. Yeah, it is ultra violent, but it is done in such a creative and cartoonish manner that the film became (for me at least) a wild ride of "what the hell will happen next?" I consider it an offensive material endurance test.

I have liked the three Miike films I have seen (Ichi, Audition, Katakuris) for very different reasons, but I wouldn't recommend any of them without warning. All three are so unique and bent in their own special way that the love/hate groups for each film are probably well manned.

BTW, I posted this here before some time ago but if any of you are interested in checking out the manga by Hideo Yamamoto that Miike's ICHI THE KILLER is based on, you can download scanned and translated copies of the first 5 volumes (of a total 10) here:

http://www.thehawks.org/hawks/bt/ind...%2FKoroshiya_1

the only thing that set me off of Visitor Q was......


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The fucking of the dead daughter-
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The pamcakes

If you want to see this movie but can't stand too much gore, pick up the R rated version. I didn't realize that was the version I had, because it's pretty goddamn hardcore too. At the Columbus marathon though it was definitely the unrated version...MUCH more torture and nastiness in it. The CGI is pretty bad, yes, but there's a few good ones like the needles and the face sliding.

Oh and Aghora that's an interesting theory...never heard that before. That makes more sense...I guess. Movie's wacky as hell, either way.

Miike is a very talented film maker, but for the most part he just ain't my thang. I thought Audition was incredibly boring for the most part, but the end did make it worth the blind buy. Ichi has a much more cruel and misogynistic vibe that doesn't sit well with me.

Happiness of the Katakuris, on the other hand is sheer brilliance...easily his best work (IMO). Every film could benefit from a zombie dance number.

I can't believe all the pussy boys that completely dismiss Miike's films based on a couple gross out moments. Sure a great deal of this guys shit is fucking nasty, and I fuckin' love it that way, But what folks are missing is that Miike has a wonderful sense of visual poetry. He has an eye for composition, color and music that I don't see many other directors nailing like he does. Kitano does it, only in a more expressionistic jazz kind of way.

Ichii the killer gets under your skin and stays there with more than just visceral gore. He goes over the top and under the belt. But many viewers get shut down with the first slap and they miss out on the rest. If you're adventuresome and looking for something inventive and fresh and invigorating, go for this guys collection. Even in his shittiest films, for me it's Visitor Q or the third Dead or Alive film, Miike is reaching for something. He's daring to fail, whether it's fail big or win big, and a great deal of his subject matter doesn't translate as well for american audiences because the cultural hot button points are Japanese, not American. This is a guy who's making films for himself and his own reference points, not just trying to sell out and sell up like the rest of the herd.

I was bored by Graveyard of Honor, but that doesn't mean I'm not salivating for his next flick. I can't wait to see every film of his I can get my hands on because I know this is a guy who's fighting to win, not showing up for his guaranteed purse.

Fuck that R-rated shit. Go for the full bore booze man. Why drink watered down piss someone else thinks you can handle when you can mainline the Jack Daniels for yourself.

Don't forget us plain old pussies now. You wouldn't want us ladies feeling left out now would you?

Like I said, Miike is extremely talented and he is brilliant at what he does, but it doesn't mean I have to enjoy his work. It has nothing to do with gross out moments, I can handle gore just fine thank you. It's the ideals behind some of his "moments" that bothers me. Rape and torture movies in general don't bother me (although they aren't exactly on my preferred viewing list), but the level that he takes it to disturbs me. Much of his work isn't a "fun" kind of gore...it's cruelty in its most gruesome form. For some reason with Miike films, it has a more real feel to it that makes it more disturbing than it normally would be. It's kind of hard to describe the difference, but I hope at least part of my point is coming across.

Just a little bit of good news ... The US DVD will have the Miike commentary track ported from the original Japanese DVD. And it will be subtitled (the movie AND the commentary track) and not dubbed like the commentary track for HAPPINESS OF THE KATAKURIES.

Fuckin' A cool. I've got a bare bones Chinese import that's glitchy but worth it's wet in semen. All my Miike collection is bootleg imports so the quality is on the cheap. I wasn't going to wait around for Americans to catch up. I've been seeing a majority of these films on Big Screen at the American Cinematheque here in LA for the outlaw Japanese film masters series.

Bunnymud, the fucked daughter was alive and kicking. The female newscaster was dead and shitting.

*shudder*

I feel dirty just from reading that.

So what is this movie actually about?

Thank you every one for your input.

I have just learned today that it is playing in Montreal (big screen). I didn't know that one before this tread. I think i am going to see it this week, unless it is the R version.

I despise cut version.

I stole this from ebay ...

"In a yakuza syndicate, the Anjo clan has suffered the loss of their head leader. Kakihara, Anjo's right hand man, sets out on a quest to find his boss (regardless of the evidence that says he's dead). Things begin to turn for the worst when a group of men that was once affiliated with their syndicate but kicked out set their eyes on seeing the Anjo Clan's complete annihilation. To make thing's worse, they've got the mysterious and extremely deadly killer Ichi on their tales. Will the Anjo Clan survive through Ichi's slaughter? Can they defy their gloomy fate? A sick and twisted fantasy about sadism and masochism with an ending so puzzling that it'll drive you to watch this nihilistic ride into the deepest trenches of the human psyche a second time, a third time, hell, maybe even a fourth. A film based on the extreme manga with the same name, Miike Takashi brings the panels of ink to life in this controversial film."

that is one of the most ignorant things i have ever read...and am insulted because i am a christian


... and have ordered the uncut/special edition...

Read much?

Surely you'll allow that it's generally the morally righteous (or at least those claiming to be) who try to shut things like that down, wouldn't you? I know some atheists probably don't like so much blood and guts as well, but going by majorities...

Welcome to the boards. Fasten your seatbelt. You're going to hear a lot worse if you hang around here.

Scott -
While I agree that being thick skinned on these boards is a good suggestion, you have to admit Wetbones' comment was a pretty big generalization and those types of comments will normally elicit responses in kind.

Still, unrated films are the devil's work, but that is OK in the eyes of this caco-demon.

Not really. Wetbones' statement wasn't a generalization. Conservative christian groups pressure companies to not carry films made for adults. Hence the lack of an adult section at all in most major rental companies.

My main point is that if you think THAT'S the most ignorant thing you've ever read, you need to pick up a newspaper.

And it's pretty clear that the groups pressuring for the removal of sex and gore (more sex than gore, strangely) are Christian groups by and large.

Do you think it's "christian" to enjoy Ichi the Killer? If so, I want to visit your church.

Here is Wetbones comment again: While I agree that fundamentalist Christian groups do pressure all sorts of companies, I'm not sure that

A. Unrated films are preached against in Bible school. NR is not the devil's rating, is it?

B. The comment "too Christian" is not going to offend someone. I'm sure some people feel they are as Christian as can be and watch unrated films.

C. Only Christian video stores lack unrated films.

Is there truth in Wetbones' statement. Yes. Is it a generalization. Hell, yes.

There can be "some truth" in a generalization. Matter of fact, that is how generalizations are born.

Was it made in a joking manner? Damn-it-to-hell-yes.

Seriously, I think he was just being a smart-alecky whippersnapper. Kinda like when you say, "Oh, so now you're too christian to come over to my house and eat monkey brains, huh? Well fine! See you in Sunday school!"

You'll have to excuse me, I'm in a weird mood today. Must be that ol' debbil.

Good point.

At my church (which just so happens to be better then everyone else's church) we drink goat blood and meet only on Tuesdays.

Oh, and we don't associate with the damned (Sorry, Scott).

I'm offended.

Somewhere in this thread, there is a valuable lesson to be learned about not playing devil's advocate over semantics. Sadly, I'm a slow learner.

Ay! Your virgin eyes hav been bluddied by my terse, but contradictory prose. I've seen it hap'n to many a man.

Heck man I am a conservative EVANGELICAL Christian and I've still watched Dead Or Alive and other assorted Miike "gross" flicks. While Dead Or Alive wasn't really my thing I still quite enjoy Miike's works (I have Happiness and City of Lost Souls) and loved Graveyard of Honour when I saw it in theatres recently.

I suppose as a Asian cinema lover you do happen across a lot of stuff that is just not in line with what you normally watch and you act accordingly. I'll watch most of anything once at least. Kitano isn't exactly a walk in the park either nor is a movie like Sympathy for Mr. Vengenace. Hasn't kept me from immensely enjoying those various works though. Heck even the Christian websites have people watch flicks that will obviously go against what they would normally choose to watch.

Uh....I don't know where I am going with this but AI will say I still remember Matt Goldberg warning me off of Miike's works because he thought I would be repulsed or whatever and yet I managed to think Miike one of the greater living directors today...

I soooooo derailed this thread.

Come to think of it, all those religious paintings from the middle ages of souls burning in hell and saints being bloodily martyred...those are pretty sweet.

Maybe if the movie showed saints or sinners getting roasted or speared or something, then the MM would be all behind it.

Screenwriters! To your stations!

DeLude, are you implying that because you like these films, the christian right isn't the main force behind keeping films like this out of major stores in America?

There are as many types of Christians out there as there are torture scenes in Ichi (full circle, baby). The term gets thrown around here a lot without qualifying who is really being discussed. Not every Christian is a holy roller in a bright white suit complete with a blue haired wife.

With that said, I am guessing that discussing Ichi at your local church (ANY church) would lead to you be thrown out on your sinning arse.

In fact yes.


Because believe it or not but I too would hardly recommend these films to anyone. Because most can't handle it period (Christian or not) and I do not look upon that as a bad thing. It's a niche. And if you do like these films you will find a way to watch them. It ain't all that hard really and doesn't cost much at all...infact less than getting region 1 dvds in many cases.

These films really don't need to be in Wal-mart or even Best-buy. Hell a lot of the reason why these films aren't on the shelf anywhere is because of the movie studios here. In fact that leads us to something even more interesting. It's not the Christians keeping these movies away, it's the movie studios here keeping them away. Because if it was the Christians there wouldn't be easy access to Faces of Death 23 and Girls Gone Wild: Wild in Alaska at your local Best Buy and such. Because I have seen just as disgusting films here as I have seen released by any foriegn country. It's kinda like Battle Royale, must people can't handle that kind of film, can't look deeper and that's fine. But anyone who has wanted to see this film has or has nothing stopping them but a fear of shopping on the 'Net. So there is really no need to point fingers period. Don't like Blockbuster? Plenty of alternatives on the 'Net or even the ma and pa rental place. It's kind of like public records, you may never have known something existed (a law let's say) yet you are still bound to that law. Same thing here. Just because you can't get a film at Blockbuster there is nothing stopping you getting it from Greencine, Netflix, Nicheflix, or whatever else is out there.

Trying to blame it on Christians is scapegoating. Blaming on Miramax and it's partners in crime; now you're getting somewhere...