The Army needs cunning linguists...

Why don't all those silly homos go back to being straight? I mean, it's just a lifestyle choice. Not to mention a sin so despicable they shouldn't be allowed to marry or have spousal insurance. We should take all the taxes homos pay and fund a new tax-free church to teach them the error of their ways.

Leave the church out of this JS. This is a dumbass milirtary policy.

I'll leave the church out of homosexual controversy as soon as the church does.

But haven't you heard? We have seperation of church and state now.

In my dreams, Capt., in my dreams...

I spent 63+ weeks at DLI for Korean, this is nothing new.

They just got busted. When I was there in 95 / 96 there were 4 or 5 Air Force, a few Marines, and a Navy guy that was kicked out for the same thing.

With the atmosphere in DLI it is really, really easy to forget you are in military. Except for the uniforms, it is basically really, really intense college language courses. You've got to keep in mind that less than 4% of military applicants even qualify to go to DLI. Only about 1% of that 4% qualify for Arabic/Korean/Chinese.

It's a really small culture, military linguists. Like it's own little world. My wife and I are dying to head back to Monterey sometime just because of the amazing time we had out there.

Thank you US Army!

WHEN you do you'd better contact me and we'll meet in Monterey. It's the best place on Earth. I know the DLI area very well and it makes me jones for some SCUBA action.

As for the gay thing...Singer's a drama queen about all this for the most part...but essentially correct content-wise.

While I don't agree with their lifestlye choices, I don't think that your sexuality affects your ability to defend your country. And according to what Grifter said, we need all the linguists we can get right now, and especially those that speak arabic. It's not right to kick someone out of the military just because their gay. This is just a homophobic thing, and it's kinda sad.

I can see why this is done. I personaly have no problem with gays in the military, or in general for that matter, it's not like they have not been there since day one. The main concern is "unit cohesion". There's a lot of this talked about, but unless you've been there, been a part of it, it's hard to wrap your head around.

Sports teams, cops, firefighters, military, etc... These are all groups that can and do become closer to you than your own family. People who, in many cases, you would gladly lay down your life for them, knowing they would jump at the chance to do the same for you. It's a very deep, visceral thing.

The open minded attitude is not yet wide spread enough to allow that lifestyle into the "group". It's pretty sad, really. However, that's the cold truth.

In "normal life" there are cases of shunning, and finger pointing, etc.. In the military, despite the doctrine of "everyone is green, just like you" gays are downright persecuted. Hate to put it bluntly, but look at the vast demographic makeup of the military. Not that many activists and PhD's running around with Sergeant stripes on, if you know what I mean. That is what the article means by the fact the military is "20 years behind society". I think that's a generous estimate.

Units like linguists, intel, Spec Ops, etc.. are very, very small worlds. You can be stationed with the same group of 100 or so people (with variations) for a full 20 year career. The camaraderie is palpable. (Just ask my wife who was on the outside, looking in)

Unfortunately, there are going to be some areas of life where gays may never be "accepted". As wrong as this is, it's true.

It does not matter how "good" you are. I'm a prime example. I'm straight, married, and was in the top 2% of Intel/Linguists in the US Army. I get hurt, (blow out 2 disks in my lower back), and rather than try and re-hab me, or give me time to heal, Uncle Sam just says "well, son, your broke. It's been fun, have a nice time and don't let the door hit you on the way out."

Keep in mind that Intel is not an overly physically demanding field, depending on the unit to which you are assigned. That's just the mentality. If you are "different" (i.e.. hurt/rich/Muslim/gay/etc...) you don't "belong". The military, as a whole, is perhaps the single most homogeneous group of individuals on the planet. If you don't "fit in", it is not a fun place.

The mantra is "everyone is green, just like you", the practice is different.

Bitch.

Um, nope. Never put it out there as a justification. I don't think there is one, to be candid.

I put it out there as a reality. Nothing more.

Offtopic but this caught my attention ...

I didn't know racism was only a relaity with inbred redneck racists (btw, inbread redneck ... is that racists?). So when you think of racism, you think of a group of people identified by their culture (south) and color of skin (souther white ... redneck).

Interesting contradiction there.

That is admirable, my friend. I do not fault you for that.

Clearly, you will never / have never spent time in the military. US or otherwise.

Please note, I never said it was right. I actually commented several times that it was wrong, and even pointed out the demographics of the military as a means of qualifying why this is the case.

I simply said it's the way it is. Just because it's not "your reality" does not mean it is not "a reality".

You could argue that your contradiction there is racism at the very worst (I woudln't say that), if not just plain dumb.

You can only fathom white rednecks as racists? Man, you sure need to travel and meet other people around the world!

Learn a language in 63+ weeks huh?

Damn...

So that was for reading and writing and Konglish and all?

Well thats news to me. So a Peruvian of "indegeno" descent, if racist, is part of the "inbred redneck" mentality. Heh, that makes sense. Yeah ...

That's what they say.

I graduated with a 2+ in speaking, reading comprehension, and writing. Roughly equivalent to a native 2nd or 3rd year college students ability. (trust me, this was VERY liberal grading! LOL)

All individuals are influenced by their morals/background/belief system/etc. The constitution was not meant to prevent that, but rather to prevent our country from establishing a state church.

BTW, you do realize that your keyboard has a shift key, right?

Oooh...

I was thinking of trying to get into the FBI via Japanese but I assume you have to have something of a 3+ for oral and reading. Or is it 3?

Anyways I am curious about State jobs in Asia, especially Japan, that I would look into down the line.

After reading so much about Korea...it may not be my cup of tea.

Tradition I would imagine. Most folks that observe Christmas don't do so in a religious way anyhow. See my thread in the religion forum.

That's because, like it not, right or wrong, the US was first founded on a Judeo-Christian basis.

Now, it's just tradition.

Say wha?

First of all I meant that observing the holiday is tradition, not the holiday itself.

"Christian reich", oh that's rich!

This is bad how?

Where?

Yup. They shoot, stone, and cut people's body parts off for little or no good reason.

In America? Heck no!

Actually it's a watered down pagan holiday adapted to Christianity by the RCC. Thanksgiving is the only "true" Christian holiday and is actually a decent argument that Church/State seperation (an interpretation of the amendment and not what it says/means) hasn't happened yet.

And I was telling you why we observe it as a national holiday. The reason we observe it and most people get a day or two off has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with tradition.

Sure there is. You don't have to take Christmas or any other day off. You can practice whatever religion you like. That is what freedom of religion means, not that the government shouldn't be influenced by a religion that has dominated our culture for the majority of its history, but that it shouldn't force you to become a part of it.

Absolutely nothing. I was just showing you what some other non-Christian cultures do. How are you forcefed Christianity?

So who's stirred up?

Historical fact.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rigormortis_Rob
[B] That's not speculation, maybe you should just pick a book and learn some history. And no, they don't teach at most Churches the pagan origins of the Christmas holiday (expect for Jehova Witnesses probably).

Wow you are not a very smart puppy are you?

http://www.didyouknow.cd/xmas/xmashistory.htm

Christmas official, but not generally observed
In 325AD, Constantine the Great, the first Christian Roman emperor, introduced Christmas as an immovable feast on 25 December. He also introduced Sunday as a holy day in a new 7-day week, and introduced movable feasts (Easter). In 354AD, Bishop Liberius of Rome officially ordered his members to celebrate the birth of Jesus on 25 December.

However, even though Constantine officiated 25 December as the birthday of Christ, Christians, recognising the date as a pagan festival, did not share in the emperor's good meaning.

A personal decision made by that business, not a governmental one.

[/B][/QUOTE] is that why school prayer`s only been enforced up until recently sir?[/B][/QUOTE]

Define recently.

Legal.

Will soon be legal everywhere.

The sepration of Church and state has nothing to do with what moral basis that country has for the formation of their law and everything to do with preventing the formation of a state church that controls every aspect of your life as they had in several European countries circa 1750.

So Dale my friend...exactly what methods did they use to teach you Korean?

And how hard did youfind the learning of that language to be?

Muy sencillo.

The laws of this country are not dictated by a religious institution (Church), but by the morals , opinions and interpretations of it's citizens. How these citizens reach those ideas, has nothing to do with the separation of Church and state. Their ideas can come from religion, atheism, greed, or any motivation or phylosophy they chose to be influenced by.

They come from whatever it is you believe (or not believe then). The mass of those opinions are then formed into laws by citizens (represented by law makers, politicians).

Before, the Pope or a King would just decide, and the justification was on Canonical and Theological grounds.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rigormortis_Rob
That was answered in the previous to that post

"Their ideas can come from religion, atheism, greed, or any motivation or phylosophy they chose to be influenced by."

No, I'm saying there's a bunch of sources(ex: Atheism, culture, etc), not just religion. Please r-e-a-d s-l-o-w-l-y.

Are you a real person or just a poorly written perl script pulling my leg?

Now wouldn't THAT be something?

There's a lot more things children don't get to choose other than religion. They don't have a choice about going/not going to school, they can't choose where they live, etc. You could think of many more than that. And there are reasons for that. Children aren't old enough to make a lot of their decisions for themselves. As they grow up, they learn to make more and more decisions themselves. That's a big part of growing up. Learning to decide things on your own. But until you have some life experience, you can't make educated chioces. And that's why we have parents. Granted, not all of them act like it, but they are supposed to teach you how to make good decisions. But ultimately, when you're an adult, all your decisions from religion to what you eat for dinner are your responsibility.

I know this post was early on in this thread, but it caught my attention as one of the most asinine things I've heard in a while. That whole statement is a racial slur against people who live in rural areas or are "rednecks". "Inbreeding redneck piles of shite" is no different from calling an african american the "N" word. Or making any other racial slur against any other ethnic/religious/cultural group.

As far as I know (correct me if i'm wrong) there are countries in the world that don't allow gay marriages or abortions that aren't based on Christianity or even Christian ideals/morals. So apparently, Chirstians aren't the only ones who think that homosexuality or abortion or a lot of other things are wrong/immoral. Think before you post, man.

I think bob needs to have his internet use better moderated by his mom.

I think embrodak or whatever needs to learn what "racial" means. Then I think he needs to realize that redneck is not a slur against all white people - it's a geographic slur at best, but usually really a socio-economic slur, not really removed from "ghetto," a word that essentially means the same thing but for blacks.

I never said that it was against white people only. As a matter of fact, the word "white" wasn't anywhere in my post. My point was that to complain about people discriminating against others because of a lifestlye chioce or where they live/how they were brought up, etc, and then to point out one of those groups by name-calling is just a bit immature. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the groups he's referring to don't discriminate against other groups of people, but they aren't the only ones. Everyone discriminates against everyone at some point or another. Blacks, whites, mexicans, itailans, it doesn't matter. But don't single out a whole group of people and say that they are the only ones who discriminate against others.

When you complain about the term rednecks, which group DO you feel is being slurred if not whites?

And my point that you don't seem to understand the term "racial" stands, as you lump religion in there.

Bob, quite the opposite!

I'm sorry, I should have been more clear.

I was saying that you seem stupid.

No.

You're not very smart and insist on posting again and again. That's the problem, dude.

I would be interested in knowing why you think that this would make me feel inadequate. It makes me feel immensely superior to you.

This is going way off topic at this point, but I would like to know why you think you make me feel stupid.

Also, I am not trying to prove my manhood. I am trying to condition you so that you realize "posting extreme idiocy = getting called stupid". That's for the good of all the people.

This is fucking great.

Devin's back, baby!