George W. Bush...

His genious is in his strategery...

Yea I am presently a little ticked and mystified about that situation.

There's a lot of stuff I have yet to grasp about the whole deal though and will be educating myself the next few days...

We'll be breathlessly awaiting your mangling of any talking points right wing radio and blogs feed you.

This one's easy. China= coming economic superpower that will buy tons upon tons of american shit to satiate its billion people. Taiwan = some little island which we sell tons of missiles and guns to, but the profit margins on a copy of windows XP or a boeing jet is far greater.

It's about selling stuff to more people. China has some cash now and is moving up to the west side. (get it?) America wants cash and will sell out old allies for it. Can't say I blame bush. Our economy will appreciate this just as it did making china MFN status.

As opposed to your stupendous blessings of wisdom you beget to us from on high?

This is what the Bush House is so pissed about? That they were going to ask China not to point missles at them? Good thing these idiots weren't in power during the Cuban missle crisis.

This is where I get ticked off. We hog-tie Israel many of times and here were are literally throwing Taiwan to the wolves because we won't let them act as we would act in their stead. That's unacceptable. I don't care how much "we" need stability in the face of Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, and the Norks. Unfortunately these matters are bigger than one country and if Taiwan feels as if it must fight for independence than so be it. If it means war so be it. Just because we want all things stable while we fight what we believe in doesn't mean it will happen and it certainly shouldn't happen at the expense of our allies. Frankly I think the only way for the world stage to correctly "right" itself is for chaos to come soon. And the US isn't going to be able to control it all no matter how highly we think of ourselves.

Was there any official reasons given to the Presiden'ts decision in this matter?

The only thing that was positive for me in the whole of the President's message was the warning to China not to act in haste against Taiwan. Other than that this is a misstep.

I figure they think that if we can live with China having missles facing the West Coast than Taiwan should be fine with it too.

Blah...

Yeah, because there's no difference there. If China sent a missle our way, the planet would survive for about ten minutes. They know this. If they sent a missle toward Taiwan, people would be pissed - and there'd be some serious talking that needed to go on.

Which would lead to the end of the planet some 10 months later...

Eh I suppose it is a "give or take some time" world.

heh, we'd better get those Xboxes over there post fucking haste then.

The dollar is what rules most major political decisions as difficult as it is to swallow sometimes. It's all about money and power and a stable world in which to spend it all in. China won't do anything stupid cause they want money and power too and for them, they can't take it in the form of a gun cause we're too strong. So they make deals and since they're a bigger market, we'll court them as friends despite them being commies. Hell, they're counted as "allies" as well in the war against terrorism.

One good thing is that good economies produce periods of peace.

After all the rhetorics about liberating Iraq from a ruthless dictator and bringing democracy to the Iraqi people, I think it will be hypocritical for the US if they'd just stay by and let China, a Communist country, take over Taiwan. I know that the American people are wary of another war, but Bush will have to prove that his policy concerning Iraq isn't just a one-time thing.

We're doing the wrong thing here, plain and simple.

Yeah, there's no moral high ground to be found here.

Bring democracy to Iraq by force and liberate its people, but warn Taiwain away from declaring its own independence and becoming a democracy.

The only way to explain that is through cynical economic/political pragmatism--which can be a strong argument, don't get me wrong, but nonetheless gives the lie to all the moralistic posturing going on in Iraq.

Do you honestly believe that the public statement from Bush is the final word on the administration's position and actions in this mess? I would be very surprised if we didn't have several people in the administration in constant contact with China and Taiwan attempting to calm and eventually resolve a clearly dangerous situation. Is the administration supposed to undo all the work of the past few decades in building better relations with an emerging superpower just to make a public statement that Taiwan deserves complete indendence? China has essentially taken the position that such a move to independence would lead to the use of military force against Taiwan. Is the current administration to encourage Taiwan in an action that will most likely lead to military action against it by a nuclear nation with 1.1 billion people? Should we throw our military might behind Taiwan and, in the process, exacurbate the tensions there?

In making this statement, I don't think Bush was compromising the principles of this administration. It was a politically-expedient non-statement meant to prevent further escalation of the tensioins in the region.

And I am slightly inclined to believe you jo...

What exactly IS Taiwan's situation? Do they have self-determination already (at least as much in action as most people if not word)? Or are Taiwan's threats for independence based upon what China is trying to do them?

I do believe that this public statement is indeed only a small part of a much bigger picture that is being painted behind the scenes. The thing that disappoints me is the fact is it is such a strong statement from the President, publically, towards Taiwan. I think it certainly would be worse had the President not mentioned that there would be no acceptance of action on China's part against Taiwan as well.

I would have rather had a more stern statement said towards China as we need to show them we will not back down. Again I'll let some more things pan out (this is just starting to get talked about) and will see what is let out at that time before making any more statesment for or against on my own...

Taiwan is in a weird position. They rule the island independent of China, but the world recognizes the One China policy of the mainland. So, Taiwan is not a member of the UN, but China is despite the fact that currently, China does not have any say in Taiwanese politics.

Taiwan wants to be recognized as its own nation. They want representation on the world stage. China will go to war to prevent this the same way Lincoln did when the US split. They consider Taiwan a rogue state in continuous rebellion which they will put down one day.

It's hard to say they're wrong. Taiwan always was part of china until the nationalists fled there and setup their own government.

Taiwan was not always a part of China. Between approximately 1880's to 1945, Taiwan was a part of the Japanese empire. Which doesn't really mean a whole lot, but it has not always been thiers.

Anyway, I believe Bush made a boo-boo making this statement and used too harsh of a tone towards Taiwan. This may encourage some Chinese big-wigs that Bush is weakening in his support for Taiwan. I'm not saying that this will happen, but China may see this as a once in a generation opportunity to reclaim Taiwan.

With Bush possibly weakening in resolve in regards to military defence of Taiwan, the upcoming elections in which Bush may lose would seem very important to China, because another president may seem more agressive in defence of Taiwan. Also, with US forces tied up in Afganistan and Iraq, it becomes exceedingly difficult for the US to militarily defend Taiwan outside of subs and a few carriers, while maintaining significant presences in Iraq and Afganistan. This window of opportunity may seem too good to pass up. And with so much Bush & Friends' money tied up in Iraq and Afganistan, do you really believe our beloved president would pull out to defend Taiwan?

I'm not saying I believe this would happen. Chinese conquest of Taiwan would be very costly even without our help. Add a few of our carriers and a bunch of subs, and I don't believe China could take Taiwan. But you never know. Hitler invaded Russia while still fighting the Britts(as well as declaring war on us to fulfil atreaty obligation to Japan). Crazier things can happen.

While Bush was harsh to Taiwan in public - although in all fairness he said it to both Taiwan and China - but in private he gave the Chinese as good as he gave it to Taiwan. Basically he said "if you go after them, you go after us."

I'm glad you were a part of the discussions so as to be able to give us the update.

Thanks.

Anytime I can be of service!


That comment was accurate, BTW, but I'm a tertiary source.