THE KILL LIST, Round Ten Discussion (James Woods and the Giant Peach) - Page 2

Au contraire.
It is THE Buffy movie.

No. It's not a Buffy movie for the many reasons I described. It may share many things in common with Buffy, but it doesn't have the Buffy vibe. It doesn't have the things that makes Buffy special.

The people who write the Buffy comic actually told the story of the movie in a limited series a few years back, trying to tell the story so it FIT with the chronology, etc. And it worked surprisingly well.

He got that chance for 7 years, man. anotherdumbkill

Yeah, well, part of me still wants to see a big screen Buffy movie without the blight on a near-perfect record that is that movie.

But I've admitted that it probally wasn't the best kill. What, you would have preferred I killed Memento out of spite?

Why would you kill another good movie?

Lame fucking kill, otis.

Vengance on Verbal for killing Near Dark.

Why is that?

Because it's a beautiful movie with an awesome score, it's got David Tomlinson in it, and killing it means I would never get to see Danielle Kessler from the third grade dressed up like a chimney sweep.

Thanks, Slater. Now I feel like a full participant.

Slater, I'm raping your mother with your dead dog's dick.

Nice vitrol spewed rant there, Slater. Gots to say I disagree with you, being one of those fucking retards who yells things at the screen*, but I will say that I had more fun at a showing of Rocky Horror Picture Show on the last day of summer camp than I did all summer.

*but I'd rather be dead than caught in lingere & lace. Ew.

I'm thinking of a movie that I KNOW would piss off Verbal, and to be honest, I don't like it and find it overrated. Only reason why I don't kill it is because I'd prefer to have a more legitimate reason than spite.

Gio, I think if you kill The Usual Suspects, you'll find a lot of people stamping on that one trick pony's corpse.

Sorry Rath, I always found it boring and despised the carousel/race seen. The songs were stupid even when I was little.

Road to Perdition?

It's cool. Damn you for dredging up old memories, though...

Nope, not the one I was thinking of.



Nope.

I don't think he's fighting for it as much as he's fighting against it. He wants the education and he knows he's good enough for it, but he's not going to put up with the bullshit of manipulative deans and spoiled brats. I think if he had left it, it would have looked like he was running away rather than facing those who would hurt him head on.

Does everyone in here hate me for not loving SiL also?

FUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCKKKKKK!!!!

I did it...

I didn't want to do it, but you guys made me...

I killed one of, if not THE best movie, ever....

It hurts, but so many of my favorites were already dead, and I just want to start over...

I'm sorry...

Flame on boys and girls...

Boomstick.

Wow, man. Fucking hard core.

Also, quit whining. Two of my favorites of all time were killed last round and you don't see me killing off Psycho or something, do you?

I've already kicked my own ass for that one.

But let's face it. We've gone overboard with the killing of good films. Why don't we just start over?

That was the final draw. Glad this thing is ending.

Boomstick, your logic is flawed and so is your list. I think you are the clear champ for worst kill list. Congratulations.

Boomstick finally went for the kill I was hoping to see.

Greatest draft ever.

If this kill also manages to destroy every single piece of garbage ever created it still wouldn't be worth the loss. I'll put up with Glitter in my video store until the end of time if it means we can have certain classics back. I was hoping that this draft wouldn't come to this.

Thanks...

...and no offense taken.

How is this starting over in any way, shape, or form? It's like nuking earth from outerspace so that we can begin again.

The progression from shit to masterpiece in Boomstick's list is almost poetic.
1. Pearl Harbor
2. Pretty Woman
3. The Waterboy
4. Austin Powers: International Man of Mystery
5: Random Hearts
6: Windtalkers
7: Vertigo
8: Breakfast at Tiffany's
9: Birth of a Nation
10: Citizen Kane

I'm not trying to offend you, but I seriously think you have made some awful picks this game, and this is the capper. If you're going to try and take down Citizen Kane, your reasons have to be stronger than "Well, I just want to start this draft over. " We shouldn't be choosing films in terms of how they relate to this draft. We should be choosing films in how they relate to a hypothetical future.

Kane was apparently mistaken for the Genesis Device in Boom's reasoning pattern.

We still have sound in film with the Jazz Singer and from there we just have to rebuild and rebuild. I think one way or another modern cinema would exist, however killing off Citizen Kane is like letting the Bride loose on our cumulative film culture and seeing what can substain all this bleeding.

Boomstick is the Hal Jordan of CHUD.

Fuck sound.

You kill Birth of A Nation, you kill the way stories are told to effect a mass culture. Blockbuster cinema.

You kill Kane, you kill the way directors shape the medium of film and all the toys therein into a single vision. Auteurism.

Without these two films, the modern film as we know it would cease to exist. He has thus, with those two kills, rendered this ENTIRE draft null and void and we're all accountants in Bum Fuck, Kansas.

Sorry, Boom, but your reasoning doesn't stand. Citizen Kane is one of the best films ever made, sure, but it's hardly the most influential. Hell, critics didn't even start to consider it a masterpiece until at least a decade after its release. Influential? Yes. Essential to the rest of cinema? No.

So I don't think wiping out Kane kills everything that followed. I think it just wipes out a really good movie.

You've managed to kill 4 of them.

Restarting this list would only led us to the same point it is now. Unless we had a cut off date of 1965 or something.

What IS the most influential film, then Slater? Perhaps there will be a bonus round and Boom can kill THAT, too.

Hell, why doesn't someone just go ahead and kill "A Voyage To The Moon" or Edison's Frankenstein or The Great Train Robbery and end it all for real?

Also, explain this line of "I just want to start over" bullshit. What does killing Kane have to do with that?

I gotta disagree with the thin red line... first off objectively a midnight clear and a bridge too far are not better war movies. better to you, perhaps, but not like saying the godfather is a better mob movie than hoodlum. second, saying that many fans took it as a challenge to their intellectuality, while ringing very true, could be said about so many films and books as to be almost moot. third, the film is not a waste of resouces (cough, bridge too far, cough) war is a waste of resources, and it was a great conceit to have all these actors who people know and feel an emotional connection to doing the grunt work of the war. plus they all just wanted to work with malick

now about the film itself... pedestrian plot? again, this is the absurdity of war. go there, take that stretch of land by force. reasons? who needs em? penn's bitter and cynical sargeant, nolte's ambitious colonel, and caviezel's wayward private were all played perfectly off each other.

other common criticisms of this film... the narration ran together? intended and effective. it was pretentious? hardly. the thoughts weren't directly in the characters heads. it was a philosophical, almost poetic, distillation of their hopes, fears, even worldviews. name another mainstream american movie that took it's central focus and put it on the backburner in favor of philosophy and poetry. yeah okay some of the poetry wasn't the best we've ever heard... it still moved me.

I haven't even mentioned the beautiful cinematography, the haunting music. two other huge reasons I love this movie.

anyway I guess this is just my opinion, obviously... but I don't get why you'd kill such a truly unique work of cinema.

Rath, what I am saying is that if Birth of a Nation and Citizen Kane did not exist, that cinema would still exist today on the shere fact that it's a form of entertainment that people enjoy. As a collective 8 billion people I believe would could have come up with inventive stories to tell and interesting ways to show them still.

That being said I am not endorsing Citizen Kane and Birth of a Nation being eliminated from the cinematic canon. I am simply stating that without one film, no matter how important cinema as a whole would live on, yes maybe in some weaker form, but film as a whole would maintain the course sort of speak.

I doubt one exists.

I mean, what's the most influential painting ever made? The most influential song? Album? Sculpture? Novel? Poem? Ask 20 different people and you'll get 20 different answers.

And I'm saying that the one-two punch of removing those two films from the cinematic canon effectively castrates and destroys the way films have been told for the better part of a century. Film as we know it simply would not exist without those two films. Sure, it may live on in some weaker form, but it would CHANGE THE COURSE OF THE WORLD, too.

Everyone knows the most influential movie ever made is 'Roadhouse'.

Full defense:

Not start the draft over... start a new film world. Look at what has been picked so far....

2001: A Space Odyssey
Amelie
Apocalypse Now
Blair Witch Project
Braveheart
The Crow
The Deer Hunter
Dogma
The English Patient
Equilibrium
Evil Dead 2
Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom
Life Is Beautiful
The Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring
Punch-Drunk Love
Requiem for a Dream
Saving Private Ryan
Snatch
Spaceballs
Star Trek: The Motion Picture
Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
Star Wars Episode 4: A New Hope
Star Wars Episode One: The Phantom Menace
Star Wars Episode 6: Return of the Jedi
Terminator
The Thing
This is Spinal Tap
The Wizard of Oz
X2

All these films play some sort of importance to MY LIFE or the life of cinema. I originally thought the draft was about getting rid of the crap movies as a way to clean up the movie universe. See who could come up with the list of god-awful flicks that suck the earth dry. I went along doing what I could to clean up the crap. I picked Pearl Harbor, Pretty Woman, and so on...

Then people started getting creative. I should have expected as much from you creative people. But the world we created sucked for me. Without flicks like Star Wars and Lord of the Rings I would be taking a huge gamble on what else I may be getting instead. If it wasn't for Evil Dead 2, I may not have ever bought a friggin DVD player. Seeing Terminator 2 was one of the best theater going experiences in my then 15 year old life. Now I don't get that because T1 is dead.

Someone killed Wizard of Oz... what the fuck?

Slater's pushed a shitload of buttons, and it's been fun. I've stayed back and watched for the most part.

Apocolypse Now is maybe my favorite film of all time.

Say what you want about Episode 1. The hype and the thought of getting another Star Wars prequel was fun at the time.

Citizen Kane rocks my socks off, but it's not dear to my heart like a ton of these other films are. Those are the films that shaped a lot of who I am and what I love.

I'm sure this is sounding petty and melodramatic, but guess what folks? We can all go home and watch Citizen Kane on our DVD players tonight. That's the beauty of this draft.

I was going to pick 10 shitty films. After round 6, a ton of my favorite films were gone. Getting ten shitty films would have been easy. I'm glad this draft is just that. Round 9 I decided to go for influential. Round ten I wanted to reset the film world. There IS something poetic about my picks. I didn't start out thinking this way, but face it folks. The final lists we have wouldn't help the film universe that we live in. Better to have 40 days of rain, flood the shit out of it, and start over.

If you disagree with my logic... fine.

Removing Citizen Kane from the balance might just prevent the advent of modern day film snobbery.

It's like that old thing- "if you could go back in time, would you take out Hitler?"

Either Boomstick is really good at not letting on that he's going for a "Piss people off draft" (like Flyers was) or he's just really, really bad at this.

Back when I picked Star Wars, I was really hoping it would come to this. People getting so crazy with one-upmanship that we'd kill off better and better films. I love it.

This is why we shouldn't own guns!

Bullshit, we'd just talk about The Bicycle Thief alot more.