Michael Mann's HEAT

5 hours of bleh, and a gigantic waste of De Niro and Pacino.

Damn good movie. About 30 min. too long, but hey, I can fast forward, so no problem. The first DVD I ever owned. Now where's my fucking special edition? That shoot-out on the street...whew. One of the best movie shoot-outs ever. Milkman is also obviously suffering from some disease and must be put down. HARD.

Ok, I'm gonna have to go with anyone that says bleh, or blah on this one, I've seen it three times in hopes to understand all the praise this film gets, and because of all the. the First time i was in an action movie craze, and didn't get that at all, there was a shoot out that isn't as impressive as people hail. the second time (again on DVD) I had time to kill with friends and no one ever listens to my movie picks, we all watched and they declared me right and that i'd always get to pick the movie we watched, Final say and what not, until i showed them Chopper with Eric Bana, which i still think rocks, but my friends are morons for the most part. and the thrid because i wanted to understand the love for it and i was into dramas at the moment, it's a BORING MOVIE that's too long, Too Boring and too boring. This film might've been better if it was cut tighter, only then it would be a quick waste of time...and SWAT would still be better than it...sad, isn't it.

A classic.

And the SE DVD is coming out.

There is a God.

Isn't the SE just a R2, or do we get it here in the States too?

I loved this film - the actors were all in fine form, and the professionalism of the characters was fantastic. I thought it was a very taut film even though it is really long. I loved the shootout, but it alone wasn't a reason to watch the film. I didn't understand why they had McCauley die in the end, but it did make sense, especially when you contrast it with Chris. He left Ashley Judd, but McCauley went back to settle the score and he paid for it.

Best Pacino Yelling moment.

"...Cause she's got a...GREAT ASS! And you got your head...ALL THE WAY UP IT!"

Not a fan of pony tails, sleep-inducing music and the stupidest grandstanding from Al Pacino I've ever seen.

Total classic. I too wish Neil had gotten away at the end. He was the smarter of the two, the more interesting, and the true star of the film. I'd have loved to have seen him get the drop on Hannah and let him live out of respect.

It's been awhile since I saw this, but I walked away thinking DeNiro had basically let himself get shot at the end.
He tells Pacino earlier that he is simply hardwired to be a criminal. That's all he is. Then he finds a girl. He has to dump her just like that when Pacino catches up with him. He'd rather stay with her, but he can't because of who he is. So he knowingly gives his position away to Pacino and lets himself get gunned down because he's tired of the criminal life.
Anybody else get that impression?

To be honest I find it a bit boring.

I love it!

De Niro is great and so is Sizemore and Kilmer.

Can't wait for the SE.

Nick, it's great you dropped in your two cents. We don't see enough of you in this forum.

There's actually a pretty great Heat thread here; whether you agree with the people or not you can find a pretty comprehensive list of reasons people love this film.

http://chud.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=42665

That Michael Mann magic was disturbingly lacking in his most recent flick, Ali; hopefully it'll be more apparent in Collateral, or whatever it's going to be called.

BTW, I don't think McCauley lets himself get shot; Pacino's just a little quicker on the draw. But he definitely cuts himself loose of Edie, just as James Caan cuts Tuesday Weld loose in Thief, albeit quicker. That great scene in the tunnel, you can see him change his mind as he decides to go after Waingro and probably kiss the rest of his life goodbye.

Mann seems to draw from a particular crime mythos, as Nick would know, or anyone else who has watched the Crime Story DVD set or seen the series. Many of the scenes play the same, word-for-word.

Nothing needs to be said other than this is a perfect movie. It's also one of the best "Look, it's blank from blank." As in "Look, there's the guy from Manhunter," or "Look, there's President Palmer from 24, and there's George Mason with Pacino's wife." Pacino, DeNiro, Kilmer, Voight, Sizemore, Trejo, Haysbert, Levine, Piven, Azaria, and Tone Loc! I know there are many more but that was one stacked lineup.

I think it was a year or so later, but there were quite a few similarities - kevlar, automatic rifles, etc. - and IIRC it was reported that one of the robbers had a copy of the film at home.

The incident was chronicled in a movie with Michael Madsen and Mario Van Peebles, can't remember the title.

I saw this again after seeing about half of the first season of 24, and it was awesome to see President Palmer working the griddle at a diner. Too bad he got capped.

Great performance by Voight, even though some people needed any interpreter to understand what he was saying.

Ashley Judd, Natalie Portman, Tom Noonan, Henry Rollins...this movie was stacked with great actors and actresses.

I don't care how realistic it is, and i hate bad boys, both. I just wasn't as impressed with it as everyone who told me to see this movie, what makes it worse is that the movie is boring.

So you've devoted 10+ hours of your life watching a movie you feel is boring? Damn, I respect that!

yeah and i'll probably see it again in hopes i can see it in a different light. cause you guys sure love it.

I love over the top shootouts like "Commando" or "Army of One" but I still think "Heat" has the best because of its realism. There's basically no music, almost no slow motion, and no time taken for characters to strategize their way out of the mayhem. Plus the way the automatic weapons are fired with shorts bursts gives it a real legit feel.

The name of the movie depicting the 1997 North Hollywood bank robbery is "44 Minutes." It just came out on DVD and was a pretty good flick.

It was a pretty good flick, but I was creeped out by how at the end it proclaimed that LAPD cops are the only ones in North America who carry M-16s in their patrol cars. Is that supposed to be a good thing?

It's a good thing when you consider that they didn't have those type of weapons in their cars in 1997. Better to have them and not need them than to need them and not have them.

Better not to need them at all.

If only bank robbers would play by that rule.

Great film. Shootout is insane!

There're times when they're called for, sure - I just wasn't crazy about how they ended the film like that - it's a damning statement on society, but it came off more like proclaiming a world record or something.

I kind of see your point that it wasn't the greatest way to end "44 Minutes" with that epilogue.

just watched this again

impeccable. im with molti.. this is one fo the most perfect movies ive ever seen. made me realize how much i SHOULD haev enjoyed ROTK. but thats another story.

if collateral is anythign like this im gonna shit myself just on principle

EDIT: btw.. anyone know anymore about the SE dvd?

i've always wondered about the big shoot out in this flick...

apparently this is an ultra-professional crew of thieves right? so the cops pretty much have them surrounded - odds of getting away are slim..... so they get in a shoot out w/the cops? that seems like a highly *unprofessional* thing to do to me. i mean, right, the odds go up that you'll get killed, PLUS you might shoot an innocent bystander or worse a police offcer, netting you tons of jail time. the "professional," one might guess, would surrender - suck it up and do the time, but live to steal another day.

that's always bugged me. but i'm not a professional bank robber. so i guess i don't know...

later on
H

You make a good point that such a professional crew would not want to engage in such a shootout. But the man who started blasting was Kilmer, and it appeared to be a gut reaction to seeing Wes Studi approaching with shotgun in hand. DeNiro didn't really have time to react to the police and settle down his crew because once Kilmer started firing it was on.

I know that a SE has already been scheduled to come out in R2 sometime this summer. I would guess that a SE would be released here when "Collateral" hits theaters. It would seem like good Michael Mann cross promotion.

Plus, these were hard-core guys, and unlike the first fuck-up in the film, this time they were caught with their hands full. Armed robbery (of $12 million!), assault, even if hot-head Kilmer pops off first, I'm pretty sure DeNiro does the same thing. There's no way they'd see freedom in their lifetimes, even if they surrendered without a fight.

Vincent Hanna (Pacino) said something like take them out with a head shot when they are in the car. I suppose because they are cop-killers, although they don't know which one killed the cops. (At the beginning after the armoured car hi-jack)
Also, what was the HUGE lump on Val Kilmer's left arm ? You can see it when he is sleeping over at Pacino's house.

It's smooth as silk, and has some of the best gunfights in movie history. On most gunsel boards "Heat" is first or second in all time great gunfights. On the big screen with a sound system the bank shootout makes me want to duck behind some solid cover. Mann knows how to stage a dramatic gunfight, without any special sound effects. Whoopass.

Some have criticized the film as not being focused enough on the superstars, but I think that's one of its high points. They meet only once, and there are no great screaming matches or attempts to out act each other. Just a conversation over coffee, and that's it. Very classy.

My recollection is that the shootout was inspired in part by the Miami bank robbery shootout between well armed robbers and FBI agents. That was back in 1986, and left several agents dead and more wounded. IIRC it took place right in the middle of day in the middle of the city, thus mirroring the shootout in the film. The North Hollywood shootout of 1997 involved better armed suspects, but those guys were loons not professionals and thankfully didn't manage to kill anyone even though that shootout lasted far longer than the Miami incident. The bulk of the Miami injuries and deaths were caused over a very short period of time by a single robber who had a Mini-14 and knew how to use it. This was the sort of carnage, caused in a sudden firefight by well armed professional bank robbers, that Mann was trying to magnify and bring to the screen.

Here's a breakdown of the Miami incident, which went on to inspire a number of changes in tactical procedures at the FBI and even spurred the adoption of a new, more powerful class of handgun, since it turned out the bank robbers were able to keep firing after multiple hits with standard 9x19 and .38+p rounds.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs7.htm

Pacino tells his officers to 'take 'em in the car, get clean shots, watch your background.'

Kilmer suffers from a condition which causes fluid to collect in his (left?) elbow. People often wear an elastic bandage over it, but I guess Mann told him to leave it off to build character. It certainly catches your eye.

Funny how that didn't translate to the North Hollywood shooting which also "went on to inspire a number of changes in tactical procedures" though for the PD (SWAT) rather than the FBI. Sad how history is so overlooked, even when it's less than a dozen years old.

Cops and Robbers taken to nearly Shakesperian proportions.

I adore this fuckin film.

No ones mentioned THE scene yet.

I don't care if it was gimmicky, I don't care if it makes me a drooling fanboy, but that ten minutes in the diner gets me fuckin cinephile-sweaty I don't mind admitting.

Luckily the whole film is a treat start to finish.

And I always get tickled by Al beating the crap out of Henry Rollins too

Great film. Left me shaking, and very few movies can do that to me...

And the Pacino/DeNiro scene in the coffee joint shows why they're BOTH masters of their craft.

This film is a masterpiece of the cops and robbers genre.

One of my top ten films for sure.

I just watched this again the other day, and I have to say that's it's much better than I remembered it (and I remembered it fondly). It's an excellent movie, and anyone who hasn't seen it should consider it.

Excellent film! Old Bob wins in the acting stakes as Pacino is plays it far more over the top (but wonderful with it) not least during his "and don't waste my mother fuckin' time" outburst!

It also has a great support cast as well. One of the best in fact.
And Tom Sizemore is always a pleasure to watch.

A real epic crime drama that never stints on the characters and their relationships, but has just the right amount of well designed action.

My only beef is that the gun (one hell of a thing) used in the vastly inferior "L.A. Takedown" original version made such a superb noise during the huge street shootout that it was a shame they did not have it/them "Heat". Hey! call me vapid.

Wonderful modern cinema...and it shows how Thrillers (with "Wild at Heart", "L.A Confidential", "NBK", "King of New York", "Fargo", "True Romance" etc etc etc) really took off during the 90's/00's whereas Horror fell by the wayside.

A class act.

My favorite film from my favorite director. Subotai and I have long had this discussion, and I second his euphoria over the cinfirmation that a DVD SE is coming.

To me "Heat" is the "Lawrence of Arabia" of cops and robbers films. It is so effortlessly about almost every aspect of law enforcement as well as crime. We see that many times the cop and criminal are so isolated and absorbed in their work that the closest contemporary they have is each other. There is the grudging respect between the two.

And maybe my favorite subplot, which is maybe the quickest cited reason for those that deem the film "boring" is the one with Dennis Haysbert. He gets out on parole. He tries to go straight. He wants to go straight. But he gets caught up in a shitty system, and when shown the ease and possible rewards of his old life, gives in in a heartbeat.

This movie introduced me to Tom Sizemore, the ultimate badass. Damn I miss "Robbery Homicide Division".

I love this film, and for those that like it and want more, "Crime Story", Mann's amazing TV show, is on DVD.

Some of the film's best moments are from that very subplot. I loved it as well and it really helped (among other things) to elevate the film to a level of greatness.

Its one of the few mainstream films I can think of that placed the same sort of emphasis on character development as a novel would.

In a normal film, Dennis Haysberts character would have gotten about two minutes of background and been just another face we don;t care about to die. But given the story we're given to him, his death seems like the futile wasted chance at redemption that it was.

You know the nasty little fry cook boss? That's Harold from "Harold & Maud", all grown up and balding. I had no idea.