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Franchises that need to be killed

post #1 of 60
4/11/04 at 9:11pm
Thread Starter 
Which ones, I ask?

Here are my choices:

The Sims (The endless expansion packs distilled what was originally a great game)
Mario
Might and Magic
Star Trek

Any others?
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post #2 of 60
4/11/04 at 10:03pm
All those you listed except for Mario, that is still great.

I would like to add, Street Fighter and King of Fighters.
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post #3 of 60
4/11/04 at 10:05pm
Final Fantasy.
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post #4 of 60
4/11/04 at 10:08pm
Mortal Kombat. And get Mario off the list.
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post #5 of 60
4/11/04 at 10:39pm
If it was truly Final Fantasy, wouldn't there be only one game? Not 4,030?
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post #6 of 60
4/12/04 at 12:07am

a

real clever
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post #7 of 60
4/12/04 at 4:09am
Since they haven't made a good one since I was in britches, lets send Mega Man to video game heaven. Number 2 was the pinnacle of the series for me, anyway.
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post #8 of 60
4/12/04 at 8:29am
metal gear. The first 3 were cool. Now it's more like watching a movie.
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post #9 of 60
4/12/04 at 9:11am
Dont EVER let me see Final Fantasy or Metal Gear on a list like this again...
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post #10 of 60
4/12/04 at 10:39am
I wouldn't include Final Fantasy, they are still great, even after 20 years. I would add Mortal Kombat.
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post #11 of 60
4/12/04 at 2:38pm
The original FF games (like the first 3 maybe) are good. Just like the Metal Gear games. It's the storys that suck.

They could have the same game play with new characters (even if they look about the same), and as long as the story was different, it would be fun. But you just can't follow them any more.
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post #12 of 60
4/12/04 at 3:04pm
Final Fantasy
Resident Evil
Metal Gear
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post #13 of 60
4/12/04 at 3:19pm
Sonic, obviously.
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post #14 of 60
4/12/04 at 3:22pm
I will lend my clear, strong, unbiased voice to the call to end everything related to Final Fantasy.
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post #15 of 60
4/12/04 at 4:27pm
I thought Jacob would have said Zelda.

My vote is for Final Fantasy and Resident Evil.
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post #16 of 60
4/12/04 at 4:30pm
I'd be an ass to say Final Fantasy. I only played two of them, and they were fine.

Sonic these days though hasn't been doing so good. So he must die. And Spyro too.

Tomb Raider killed itself. Hehe.
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post #17 of 60
4/12/04 at 4:33pm
Everquest. Just for the hell of it, pull the plug sony.
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post #18 of 60
4/12/04 at 4:48pm
Although I'm a fan of both:

Tomb Raider
Resident Evil

Neither franchise has matched the brilliance of their Part 2's in the many incarnations that followed. Maybe do one more game that has Lara Croft taking down Umbrella, but then just end it.
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post #19 of 60
4/12/04 at 5:58pm
Just bring Electronic Arts down and call it a day.
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post #20 of 60
4/12/04 at 6:05pm
I agree with most of the stuff said here. But I have to take exception to a couple of them:

FF...WTF? Why do you want to kill that one? I know everyone says that after the first few of them they all sucked, but IMHO, FF VII is one of the best games ever. It's far and away my favorite RPG ever, and up there on the top my list of greatest game, regardless of genre.

Mario....geez...you kill the mario franchise, and you've killed one of the best and most influential gaming franchies ever. They still make plenty of great games with Mario and co.

Did someone say Zelda?!?! With the exception of Zelda II, I've enjoyed every Zelda game I've ever played.

I think that MGS could be saved if Snake Eater is as good as it looks. But after Sons of Liberty, it's going to take a lot for me. After all the plot "twists" in Sons of Liberty, I kind of lost my interest in MGS. I'll at least give Snake Eater a rent, though.
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post #21 of 60
4/12/04 at 7:14pm
Some of you people are ridiculous, and really have no business posting about video games....namely thecallahan. Were you weened on DDR Max, or something?
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post #22 of 60
4/12/04 at 7:17pm
This thread shows how smart some of the Chud posters are... cant even understand a story in a video game. I will personally publish Cliff Notes for those not able to keep up with Final Fantasy. Also stop fucking bitching that you didnt get to play as Snake in MGS2... it was still an incredible game. And Resident Evil is a classic... I hate when people whine about the controls, if you have any motor functions you will get the hang of it in 15 minutes. Maybe you guys can go hang out on the Gamepro boards where people probably have a similar IQ.
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post #23 of 60
4/12/04 at 7:30pm
Can't believe so many people are putting Final Fantasy down? Why the hate? If you can't understand the story, you may want to get yourself checked out for ADD. The stories are still top notch and even FFVIII which was the weakest in story imo is still better than 98% of the other RPGs released. Also RE is great, and the controls dont need to be changed, hopefully RE4 doesnt pull an Angel of Darkness
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post #24 of 60
4/12/04 at 7:37pm
Amen Verbal & Tony, Amen.

Also, if my firm belief that any videogame that requires you dance, has got to go. Any game that doesn't require some form of hand held controller or joystick just doesn't seem like a videogame in my eyes. When Onimusha 3 comes out, I will be playing it, but not with that sword controller. The last thing I want to do is swing a plastic sword at my TV. If the sword were real, and sharpened, that might be different.
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post #25 of 60
4/12/04 at 8:32pm
You people that act as if Final Fantasy is the zenith of gaming need to play a lot more games. I understand most of you are young and "grew up" with the series, but honestly, despite all the (sometimes) great production values, the games just aren't that fucking great.

It's not a matter of "understanding" the stories at all. It's a matter of recognizing good stories.
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post #26 of 60
4/12/04 at 8:34pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Tony Danza Fan
This thread shows how smart some of the Chud posters are... cant even understand a story in a video game. I will personally publish Cliff Notes for those not able to keep up with Final Fantasy. Also stop fucking bitching that you didnt get to play as Snake in MGS2... it was still an incredible game. And Resident Evil is a classic... I hate when people whine about the controls, if you have any motor functions you will get the hang of it in 15 minutes. Maybe you guys can go hang out on the Gamepro boards where people probably have a similar IQ.
You can take your condescending and childish attitude and shove it up your ass. People are expressing their honest opinions here.
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post #27 of 60
4/12/04 at 9:00pm
Thread Starter 
Agree with Jacob. I didn't mention Mario just for the hell of it. With the exception of the Mario Kart titles I haven't enjoyed playing a Mario game in a damn long while (Sunshine, while decent, felt too much like Mario 64 to me). The fact there are about 5,000 games, spin-offs, and licensed products doesn't help either.

Killing the title wouldn't be denying the influence the series once had. I don't see any new Pac-man games being released, but that doesn't mean that the game wasn't important. It's just no longer cutting edge.
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post #28 of 60
4/13/04 at 12:36am
Quote:
Agree with Jacob. I didn't mention Mario just for the hell of it. With the exception of the Mario Kart titles I haven't enjoyed playing a Mario game in a damn long while (Sunshine, while decent, felt too much like Mario 64 to me). The fact there are about 5,000 games, spin-offs, and licensed products doesn't help either.
Well, Nintendo actually doesn't whore out Mario as much as it seems. After the NES, the actual Super Mario franchise has reproduced at a very conservative one game per console. Game Boy Advance, one of the most popular platforms ever, doesn't even have an original Mario game (which is a different issue altogether). So if Mario Sunshine was your first disappointment, that was essentially the series' first "miss". I would hate to see it put out to pasture so quickly.

If you actually mean Nintendo attaching Mario's name to anything and everything and re-releasing the original games at full price, yeah, I can get behind that.

I'm not offended by the existence of ten Final Fantasy games, though I haven't played one myself since VII. That having been said, to those who consider it the narrative apex of video games: Planescape Torment costs about five bucks now and will totally run on your computer.
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post #29 of 60
4/13/04 at 12:42am
Sonic games have sucked since the second one.
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post #30 of 60
4/13/04 at 1:07am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Count Floyd
[B]Well, Nintendo actually doesn't whore out Mario as much as it seems. After the NES, the actual Super Mario franchise has reproduced at a very conservative one game per console.[B]
You were correct in guessing that I was pissed off more due to Nintendo's whoring of the series than actual quality, but still. The thing about Mario is that there hasn't really been much innovation in the series since Mario Brothers 2, and that barely even counts since that game was a shameless rip-off of some Japanese game.

The Mario-whoring isn't nearly as bad as it was in the days of SNES (remember Dr. Mario? How about Mario Teaches Typing?) so maybe Nintendo is learning its lesson. Now that the GameCube has started to carve a niche for itself, maybe Nintendo can start focusing on innovation.
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post #31 of 60
4/13/04 at 1:27am
Quote:
Originally posted by Queen Mushroom
The thing about Mario is that there hasn't really been much innovation in the series since Mario Brothers 2, and that barely even counts since that game was a shameless rip-off of some Japanese game.
Just for fun...

Super Mario World--First game to utilize 3-D graphics (using Mode 7 technology). Also featured NINETY-SIX complete and unique levels, which is something that no subsequent platformer has managed to top yet.

Super Mario World 2--Hands down, one of the weirdest, most innovative sequels ever made. Instead of playing as the title character, you play as an army of Yoshis, chasing babies-in-bubbles through pastel "storybook" worlds and kicking eggs at enemies.

Super Mario Kart--Invented the cart racing game.

Super Mario 64--Invented the 3-D action platformer. Merely one of the most influential games of all time.

Mario Party--Invented the multiplayer party game.

Nope, not an innovative series at all...
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post #32 of 60
4/13/04 at 1:46am
Also:

Super Mario RPG--At the time of its release, this was one of the most original and enjoyable role playing games ever made. Still holds up pretty well today, too.

Luigi's Mansion--Not the greatest game ever made, but definitely an innovative and offbeat entry into the franchise.
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post #33 of 60
4/13/04 at 1:51am
Let's just kick Tony Hawk to the curb. I just do not get what is so great about them?

Maybe Underground deserves some love, but I just did not like the first two so I just quit on the series. Underground seems interesting, but still... kill it.
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post #34 of 60
4/13/04 at 2:38am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Slater
Nope, not an innovative series at all...
I don't like the series, you do. It's okay, I'm not trying to change your opinion.
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post #35 of 60
4/13/04 at 2:59am
I don't give a rat's red asshole whether you like it or not. Hate away if you want to, but it's really tough to argue that Mario ISN'T one of the most--if not *the* most--innovative franchise of all time without sounding like a dumbass. That's what I took issue with...
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post #36 of 60
4/13/04 at 4:18am
Mario Party: Nothing has changed since the first one. Yes, it's still fun. No, it isn't worth $50 each year.

Every yearly sports title: EA, Sega. Please. Innovate enough to charge us $50. Then release a new version of the game. Otherwise, just release roster updates. We have the technology.

Before Everything or Nothing, I'd've said Bond games. They seem to be on a good path now.

3D Sonic games: No comments necessary.

The Sims still has life left in it, looking at previews for The Sims 2. They did milk that fucking cash cow for all it is worth, though.
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post #37 of 60
4/13/04 at 2:34pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Slater
I don't give a rat's red asshole whether you like it or not. Hate away if you want to, but it's really tough to argue that Mario ISN'T one of the most--if not *the* most--innovative franchise of all time without sounding like a dumbass. That's what I took issue with...
"A rat's red asshole?" That's a new one. I suppose I should take your anus symbolism as a sign of disdain?

Anyway, try to remember how many Mario games there are. It's okay, I'll give you a second. Remember Mario Tennis? Mario Golf? Mario Teaches Typing? Mario Paint? Dr. Mario? Mario is Missing? Mario Family? Hotel Mario? I don't recall any innovation in those games. In fact, a cruel person might call them cheap cash-ins.

Now consider how often Nintendo simply takes an old Mario game, slightly improves its graphics, then sells it to a gullible public at full price. Remember how on N64 all Nintendo did was take ancient titles and slap "64" on the end?

I'm not going to deny that the series has created some great games, or that it was influential. But it's not anymore. Super Mario Sunshine was basically just Mario 64 with a higher polygon count. Nobody plays as Mario in Super Smash Bros. or Mario Kart unless they absolutely have to. He's a dead horse.
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post #38 of 60
4/13/04 at 3:19pm
So the series has been influential, but it hasn't been innovative for seventeen years? Make up your mind.

I'll agree that Mario Sunshine wasn't up to snuff. But the reason it found so much fan backlash is because it was the first major Mario game EVER that wasn't incredibly innovative. Claiming that the series should be dumped after one good-but-derivative game is ridiculous, especially considering how other major mascots and franchises--Sonic, Spyro, Crash, Mega Man, Resident Evil, etc.--continue to pump out nearly identical games at a yearly clip. Mario continues to have the strongest track record out of any major franchise character. That's not even fanboy opinion; it's just common sense.

But thanks for playing.
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post #39 of 60
4/13/04 at 4:05pm
If I remember correctly, Mario Paint was fairly innovative for the time.
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post #40 of 60
4/13/04 at 6:26pm
Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga for GBA kicks all forms of ass. Can't wait for Paper Mario 2.
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post #41 of 60
4/13/04 at 7:20pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Slater
So the series has been influential, but it hasn't been innovative for seventeen years? Make up your mind.

I'll agree that Mario Sunshine wasn't up to snuff. But the reason it found so much fan backlash is because it was the first major Mario game EVER that wasn't incredibly innovative. Claiming that the series should be dumped after one good-but-derivative game is ridiculous, especially considering how other major mascots and franchises--Sonic, Spyro, Crash, Mega Man, Resident Evil, etc.--continue to pump out nearly identical games at a yearly clip. Mario continues to have the strongest track record out of any major franchise character. That's not even fanboy opinion; it's just common sense.
There's a difference between innovative and influential, Slate. Try a dictionary.

I never said that Sonic et al. aren't derivative and identical. They are. But I'm not particularly familiar with them, so I wasn't about to lay claim to their suckiness.

Thanks for playing.
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post #42 of 60
4/13/04 at 9:09pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Queen Mushroom
There's a difference between innovative and influential, Slate. Try a dictionary.
In a dictionary, yes. In the world of gaming, no. Anything that works to even the smallest degree will be copied sooner or later. It's inevitable.

And everything...and I do mean EVERYTHING...that Mario has done has been copied by one designer or another. That makes the series both influential *and* innovative.
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post #43 of 60
4/13/04 at 10:34pm
I didn't like Sunshine, but I'll say that it's the only game I've ever played that involved cleaning up puddles with a bionic Super Soaker. Advantage: Slater.
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post #44 of 60
4/13/04 at 10:37pm
I really dont want to make a judgement on this until I get to hear Jacob Singer's opinion, since his is the only one that matters.
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post #45 of 60
4/13/04 at 11:28pm
Hey Tony, if you'd just stated your opinions without being insulting and degrading it woulda been cool.
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post #46 of 60
4/13/04 at 11:31pm
I really do want to hear Jacob's take on whether Mario gets voted off or not.
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post #47 of 60
4/13/04 at 11:54pm
Voting off is overrated.
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post #48 of 60
4/14/04 at 12:05am
Your FACE is overrated.
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post #49 of 60
4/14/04 at 12:10am
I'm the wrong person to ask about Mario games. I was 20 years old when Donkey Kong was released in America in 1981. The Mario games on the various consoles have always seemed like children's games to me. I've tried many of them, but I'll never understand the appeal, other than knowing most gamers are much younger than me and grew up with these games, and have a soft spot for them and defend them just like they do their favorite saturday morning cartoons.

I just can't stand the cutesiness, innovative or not. Blech.
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post #50 of 60
4/14/04 at 12:16am
I don't consider two Italian plumbers cute.
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