2004 NFL Draft

The NY Giants are looking to move up - they have their eyes on Manning or Iowa OT Robert Gallery (can't miss stud) and both figure to be gone by the time they pick at #4.

As for my team, the Packers, as has been my tradition, the pick of a QB in the first round will result in an angry drive 120 miles northward to set Lambeau Field on fire in protest. I wouldn't mind seeing them take a flyer on Bradlee Van Pelt on day 2, but otherwise, it better be defense all fucking draft.

My Saints HAVE to have a linebacker (MLB or one that can play SSLB) and a CB on the first day. They have a 1st rounder (#18), 2 2nd rounders (48 and 60) and a 3rd rounder.

The Saints would also like to take a WR, a DT (a run-stuffer type), a Safety, a FB, and a late round QB. They have seven picks total, but I doubt they will get all those guys as later rounds never turn out like ya want em to.

With the first pick, I would be happy with any of the following:

Hall, Robinson, Vilma, DJ Williams, Reggie Williams, Michael Clayton, and maybe Gamble.

With the second rounders, any of the following would be nice:

Teddy Lehman, Boulware, Dontarrious Thomas, Daryl Smith, Shawntae Spencer, Matt Ware, Keith Smith, Ricardo Colcoulgh, Joey Thomas, Ahmad Carroll, Isaac Sopoaga, Randy Starks (Kiper has him slipping to the second), Marcus Tubbs, Devery Henderson, Derrick Hamilton

3rd Rounders:

Matthias Askew, Keary Colbert, Jason Shivers, Best Available Player

Saints will go likely all D on the first day, unless a WR slips to them such as Reggie Williams.

My Colts need to go all D on the first day. We need a DT (I like Igor Olshansky a lot), starting-caliber Sam Backer (Lehman or Thomas from Auburn would be great fits in our system), and any secondary help we can get. Then again, it's Bill Polian so I fully expect us to draft a RB in the second round. He's usually proven right down the line, but he's frustrating as hell to have as your GM on draft day.

My Niners have so many holes I have no idea where they should start. I guess you can't go wrong with a first round DB or OL especially since I think the average age on the Niner OL is 50. But they do need a big play reciever, with the # 1 and 2 guy gone now. Shit.

I'm hearing a lot of negative press about Manning, being that I don't watch Collegiate sports, does anybody know what makes him a risk?

The only guys that seem to be universally loved are Gallery and Winslow as far as I can tell.

I don't think anyone considers Manning a risk. The Chargers are still VERY hesitant to take a QB in the first round. That, and Eli's dad Archie has let it be known he does NOT want his son playing for the Chargers.

The Giants, however want Eli pretty bad.

And Winslow universally loved? NO. A lot of teams HATE his attitude. He just has so much damn skill, if he was a hair less talented, he would plummet.

To echo Smirk - I don't think anyone is "down" on Manning, it's just a relatively deep draft for QBs - with Manning, Roethlisberger, and Rivers, you have 3 blue chippers, plus guys like Losman (Tulane), Schaub (UVA), Pickett (UW), and Harris (BGSU) are carrying first-day grades.

My own personal late-round sleeper is Van Pelt from Colorado State.

Well let me qualify "down" and "risk" with not as high as one would assume. Many people think that he's not worth trading up for (in regard to the Giants), and that he's not a sure thing like his brother, Vick, or hell... even Carr were.

I read something about SD pulling some sleight of hand and ending up with Rivers and two extra second-round picks. If it works out, I bet they'll do it. I think I probably would.

I've watched Eli for a number of years:

1) His family is from New Orleans and he played High School football here (as did his brothers)

2) The Mannings are treated like gods here

3) He played in the SEC against LSU

Personally, I think he has more natural talent than his brother, he just doesn't have as good a work ethic and his not as cerebral about the game. He is still very smart and has a pretty good work ethic...but Peyton is on another level

Heck, with all the titles the Colts have won with Peyton....oh, wait, never mind....

Yes, but I'm pretty sure that's due to very little of his fault. Try bad D. But I am not going to get into this agrument in this thread. Its been done.

I'm a Giant fan, don't know much about Manning except that he's a Manning. When was the last time the Giants really went after a QB in the draft? Phil Simms?
Anyway, Kerry Collins is an average QB, i wouldn't be against it. But there are a lot more holes the giants need to fill.

But the Giants weren't that bad a team last year talent wise. They just got decimated with bad injuries and had mediocre/poor coaching. You would know more than I, but that is the way it appeared to me.

They probably think (or hope) they will not be in a position to take a top rated QB next year or for a few years, so why not take him now?

what they would do is trade down with the giants and get the extra 2nd. then trade down again to around 10th in front of the steelers and get another 2. then they'd draft rivers and have 3 2nd round draft picks. it's very possible it could happen but all of it depends on whether any of the teams in the 7-10 area would wanna trade up to san diego in the giants spot.

the best rumor so far (although i think its bullshit) is the raiders trading down to the redskins pick at #5 and also getting samuels. samuels won't rework his contract so it seems the skins are interested in gallery. this would be fucking awesome. the raiders would then take roy williams at #5. i wouldn't mind them taking taylor though and in the 2nd round taking one of the remaining recievers who happens to slip which is certain to happen.

Don't get me wrong, i think it's about time the Giants went after a QB. They should have done that years ago, though. They've had horrible (Dave Brown/Danny Kannell/Kent Graham) to average (Collins) QBs since the Simms/Hostetler days.

Re: 2004 NFL Draft

talking about espn insider do any of you have a clue how to sign up to it? it won't let me. im from canada and i gotta switch the billing address from america to canada. then it says under the shipping address that if its the same as the billing addy you don't have to fill it in. then i click to go on and it says i have to fill out the shipping addy. only thing is its only listed under american and american territory residents. its fucking stupid. even signing up for the free account won't work for putting canadian info. i have to make fake american info up. fucking espn.

why would the chargers care what eli's dad has to say?

sons tend to listen to their former All-pro quarterback fathers.

Whoever mentioned Bradlee Van Pelt from CSU as a sleeper, I sincerely doubt he will be a productive NFL QB. He played in a option type offense, and though he has some arm strength, I doubt he can make all of the NFL type throws.

I also lived on his dorm room floor when he was at Mich St. for a year and the guy probably didn't score very high on the Wunderlick test.

I think Jon Navarre is a definite sleeper at the QB position, however.

If he's still there at #11 (which he may not be), there's a good chance that the Steelers may take Philip Rivers. He's from NC State, and so is Bill Cowher, plus, they've got to start grooming a QB of the future. If he isn't available, they may trade down and pick up another draft pick or two.

And I've also read the rumor that the Raiders and Redskins are looking to make a deal involving Samuels--similar to what they did with Champ Bailey.

I have no idea what the Falcons will do. They need another major WR to take pressure off Price, but they signed Dez White a few weeks back...so I don't know if they think that will do it. Mora was a defensive coach first, so I wouldn't be surprised to see a pick on the defense.

i'm curious about the niners: they've sent most of their top offensive players from last year packing, but they also need help on defense. they ought to be a little nervous come draft day.

also, there are way too many wide receivers whose last name is williams in the draft: roy williams (texas), reggie williams (washington), mike william (s cal). what's up with that? what this sport needs is for the players to start adopting cool nicknames, like brazilian and portoguese soccer players.

Navarre has the arm, but he is too slow of foot, IMO. I'd be surprised if he ever got past being the #2 on any team - he reminds me of Jim Druckenmiller.

no need to thank me:

mock drafts a plenty

And here in mid michigan i say the lions should trade down because they need a runningback anyways (not to mention WR)

but if they stay at 6 they are either going to take winslow or sean taylor whoever is there after washington pics one of them.

AJ Smith, the Chargers GM, is doing a good job of putting on his poker face but deductions can be made. It pretty much seems like the Chargers are going to take a quarterback, the question now is who. I think Roethlisberger is out with the Chargers contemplating Manning because he's the one getting all the hype and Rivers because he's giving them wood. If I had to take a guess, I'd say that they trade down with the Giants and get their second rounder then trade down again with the Falcons/Texans/Steelers and get another second rounder. Then with the first round pick they get, take Rivers if he's still on the board.

theres a good draft show every day on espn at 4-5pm eastern time, next week at 3-5pm

There is also an abundance of mock drafts at www.hailredskins.com

For what it's worth...

Did a little research, players I would like to see Green Bay end up with; as usual, I'm pretty disgusted with all the yap the GB "needs to draft Favre's successor"; I tell ya what, high first-rounders aren't guaranteed to be good pros, much less LOW ones. And Sherman would be wise to make the years Favre has left (I'd say two, at least, maybe four) count. So let's go defense, defense, defense:

1.25 - there's a good chance Chris Gamble will be available; bit of a risk, but his physical ability makes it worthwhile. Not a need as of this moment, so hopefully he could watch and learn as a nickel back, but also gives some protection depending on how the McKenzie situation plays out.

2.58 - Marquise Hill should be there and would fit nicely at power end. Some issues with his motor, but again, those measurables...Also can swing to tackle, and would allow Kampman/Nwokorie to platoon with KGB on the left side. Wouldn't mind productive, hard nosed S Bob Sanders or Hawaii strongman Isaac Sopoaga here, though they would hopefully slip to the third round.

3.86 - this is right around were Ben Utecht should go. Not much of a blocker, but Franks has the first two downs handled, and he is one heck of a target in the passing game.

4.118 - Rich Gardner from Penn State would be a solid pick here; might never be an all-pro, but shouldn't be a bust either. Another hedge against McKenzie leaving.

5.153 - I like Lewis Moore as either backup to Barnett or challenger to Navies at SLB. Landon Johnson could challenge Diggs at WLB or be converted to safety.

6.188 - I think that around here you take a flyer on a QB - I'm a fan of Bradlee Van Pelt's swagger, ability, and production.

7.226 and 7.251 - I dunno; Jarrett Payton, maybe, just to piss off Bears fans?

I'm making no claims to accuracy or inside info here, just what I'd do if everything goes according to Hoyle next weekend - which it rarely does.

Chavez, while I do not think he will be there, Marquise Hill would be a GREAT pick up for you guys at the 58th pick. He's a great player, pretty versatile, but a little bit of a motivation problem.

Nick Saban thinks very very highly of him though, and that should be a good sign. But again...Hill at 58 is a major stretch. Gamble would be a pretty good pickup at 25 as well, because he is sliding down a bit. He has great physical abilities but is still very raw. If he can be groomed and doesn't have to start for a year or 3, he's a good pick.

The Saints should pick:

#18 Any of the following: DJ Williams, Jon Vilma, Dunta Robinson, Reggie Williams, Michael Clayton. Probably 2 or 3 of those guys will be available and would be a great pick up for us. With the trade for CB Jason Craft, we don't have to reach for a CB and can take a LB (a VERY pressing need) or BPA.

#48 Any of the following would be nice: Teddy Lehman, Michael Boulware, Dontarrius Thomas, Daryl Smith, Randy Starks (he's sliding down boards), Igor Oshlansky, Best Available CB (Shawntae Spencer, Keith Smith, Ahmad Carroll, Joey Thomas, Derrick Straight), Best Available WR (Devery Henderson, Derrick Hamilton, Michael Jenkins)

#60 Best Available CB, WR, LB, DT

3rd round: Best Available CB, S, WR, LB, DT (Matthais Askew, Isaac Sopoaga, Keary Colbert, Bernard Berian, Jason Shivers, etc)

Any combo of those picks where we get a CB, LB (2, more likely), WR, DT, and a late round FB is a successful draft in my book.

A dream draft would look like this to me:

1) Jon Vilma MLB (or DJ Williams OLB)
2a) Teddy Lehman (likely won't be there) (or Daryl Smith MLB)
2b) Shawntae Spencer CB
3) Keary Colbert WR (likely (won't be there)
6) Mike Karney FB
7a) Ahmad Childress DT (has slid down)
7b)Late Round QB: Matt Mauck, Luke McCown, etc

Looks like a Federal Appeals Court has put the kibosh on Maurice Clarett's bid to enter the draft. The saga continues...

Corey Dillon to the Pats for a 2nd round pick. Looks like the team of the decade just got better.

Wow hell of a move by the Pats. Gotta admire that organization. Looking forward to seeing where Mike Williams goes in the draft.

The rich get richer. Fuck the Pats. Hell of a good move by them.

And I think the courts should rule against Claret, but allow he and Mike Williams to enter this years draft, (therefore allowing the NFL to make their no-Sophomores rule but giving the guys this year who would be screwed an equitable solution).

Yes.

Save for last year (and I got screwed by drafting him, too), Dillon has been a workhorse running behind a shitty offensive line on the shittiest team in the league. Most of last year's turmoil was about bad blood between Dillon and Mike Brown. There's little reason to believe he won't flourish in New England.

Wow. Patriot backlash.

How do you consider them "rich." They have won with low priced talent and great coaching. I'm not a fan, but they did it through teamwork, not through paying for high priced free agents.

The have won two Super Bowls in the past 3 years. I would say thats pretty rich. The only position on the team they were lacking in was RB. Now, they have a good one.

I was sort of kidding though. I have nothing against the Patriots really. They aren't in "my" division, or conference.

Not that it matters, because my team will never, ever win a Super Bowl.

Unless Cartman can predict the future.

taking dillon makes sense. antwain smith was horrible, although i'm not sure the o-line was really that good for the run either. but dillon should do good. provided he can keep his trap shut if the team decides to let him split time with kevin faulk.

and i'm definitely considering drafting rudi johnson as my 2nd RB in my fantasy team. he should be great now that he's the starter.

Gettin' closer...ESPN.com did their mock draft online yesterday. Not a lot of surprises, although everyone has Tampa taking Steven Jackson (RB from Oregon State)...do you really think they'd take another RB after signing Charlie Garner and about 3 other RBs, or would they get some more WRs or DBs instead? I just can't see it. And I'm hoping nobody grabs Rivers before Pittsburgh gets to him.

The Chargers got punk'd by the Manning family.

Why do I think that this would have been a lot bigger deal if Mike Vick's mom had come out & said he wasn't going to play for the Chargers in 2001?

I told you all.

Archie just does not want his son playing for San Diego and has said so for weeks. He has finally forced the hand of SD to trade, which they were going to do anyway. Really its the better deal for SD, they can fill in more holes.

Rumors run rampant that Archie convinced Peyton to stay for his senior season because he did not want him to go to whomever was picking 1st that year. (If I remember correctly)

If they know anything, they know how to play the NFL I suppose.

It would have been. It would be "just another spoiled black greedy athlete" and not a NFL dynasty of white QB's.

Well that makes one thing we agree 100% on.