2004 NFL Draft - Page 2

Francis was torn up at the time of the draft for refusing to play for the Grizz. Lindros I think was ripped more after he was traded than while he refused to play because he was traded for who became the actual best player in the NHL. J.D. Drew got a free pass from everyone except Phillies fans.

I don't know why Archie doesn't want Eli in SD. Sure, they've got a bad history, but they only gave up 29 sacks last year and they have LT (lots of play action). The Giants, on the other hand, gave up 44 sacks, and have shit at RB.

The Giants also play in the NFC East, facing the D's of Philly, Dallas and an improved Washington, while SD will get to play the aging D of Oakland, the suspect D of Denver, and the lack-of D for KC.

I would think SD would be a fine fit for Eli. But hey, what do I know.

Not after they paid for Thomas Jones. If they do draft a RB, it won't be until a later round. If they stay where they are, I think they should pick up DJ Williams or Tommie Harris.

I don't disagree with you. I'm looking at how the Bears are thinking about the pick. I wish they'd trade whatever they had to go jump up and get Kellen Winslow, but it ain't going to happen.

Thomas Jones! I couldn't remember who the Bears signed in the off-season. Still blows my mind.

Anyway, the mock draft had the Bears taking Tommie Harris. Gutte, I know you just said that's what you'd like, but do you guys think that's what will happen, if Harris is there?

The Packers don't have much of anything going on with the 25th pick. I suppose some D-line help will be the choice.

They say that Lovie really likes D-linemen who are smaller & quicker, and Harris definately fits that bill, especially over Wilfork who is a lot fatter than Harris. So yeah, I think if he's available, the Bears will pick him up, unless some player that shouldn't drop that far somehow ends up there (like Will Smith or Kenichi Udezi).

Archie doesn't want Eli to play here because San Diego has no winning History, the team is in shambles and he'll get 20 times the national exposure in NY. He'll be a star in NY even if they don't win right away. Here he'll just be wasted.

Wow. I agree with Smirk & now Anya. If I was listing the best players in the draft for the Bears, my list would be

1 - Robert Gallery
2 - Kellen Winslow
3 - Larry Fitzgerald
4 - DeAngelo Hall

I think San Diego is only going to benefit from this. They were being pressured into going after Manning, but now there's a good chance they're going to get the best LT prospect to come out of the draft in a long time.

See GFC...we can agree on something.

And I have seen about 30 interviews with Archie today, both on ESPN and in the local press (New Orleans press sucking his cock), and I think the situation is not as bad as it is being made out to be.

Archie is saying that they pondered it a very long time, and eventually told San Diego that they would prefer if they did not pick Eli, and that they wanted this to be a strictly behind-the-scenes deal. They also did NOT specify ANY team that he would prefer to play for.

So the Chargers GM basically came out and fucked with the Mannings.

Schotty said today that he does NOT THINK THAT SD WILL TRADE OUT OF THE 1st SPOT and he thinks Manning should be the 1st player taken in the draft.

Could be Elway all over again.

Of course that's what Archie is going to say. He's not going to take any blame and he's just doing PR. Why should San Diego not tell everyone? If they didn't take Manning, thinking he wouldn't sign because he didn't want to play for them, they would be heavily questioned & if he does become a great quarterback, they'll look like morons. Archie is asking for the cake & eating it, too. He wants to dictate how things go but he doesn't want to look like he's actually doing that.

Well, I concede the point.

But I will say this: Archie supposedly had an understanding that this was a behind the scenes thing. SD went public. That wasn't cool, but it might have been good business, although I tend to think it was not. Keep it to yourselves, make everyone think you're going to take Eli and get more picks out of someone (NY) who wants him. Now, the cat is out of the bag (if there ever was a bag).

And I just thought some of you might find this amusing:

From a Marquise Hill (DE, LSU) chat:

Justin (Ohio): What do you make of the Eli Manning saga?

Marquise Hill: (1:22 PM ET ) It's just another case of a spoiled kid trying to get whatever he wants. They've hyped him up. Everytime he made a pass, it was as if he was winning the Super Bowl. That's what they get.

---------

Josh (Baton Rouge, La.): What is youre fondest memory you will leave with from youre 3 yrs at LSU?

Marquise Hill: (1:29 PM ET ) Watching Eli Manning fall down and lose the game for them

Apparently Eli is ready to sit the season out if SD takes a hard line and drafts him. What a clusterfuck this is.

It's pretty stupid. Obviously SanDiego is going say something because-- 1.) they have nothing to lose and 2.) they would have been asked after the fact if they didn't draft him or there was a trade. Someone tell Archie about the Parody in the NFL these days. San Diego could be good next year. I'm a Giant fan and i don't get the Manning love affair with the Giants. Meadowlands, cold, crappy offensive line....
If the Giants trade for him, i hope they don't give up too much.

Another problem for San Diego is that now that they've let this information out, that lowers the value of their #1 pick. Teams know now that SD doesn't want Eli, so there's no threat in them taking him.

Sure, SD could still take Eli, but SD's trade value has gone down significantly as SD can't press team with the "threat" of taking Eli.

I think you mean "parity", just FYI.

And its all about money. NY = huge market

I guess Eli wants that sweet Casio Watch money that Shockey got.

http://www.gshock.com/

To tell the truth, I'm actually surprised by the cajones the Giants management is showing off pre-draft. First, everyone knows that Gallery would be of immediate help. Second, Manning is not even going to start for the Giants next year AFAIK (when does Kerry Collins' contract run out BTW?).

For a team in NY to skip the treading water phase, and jump directly into rebuilding with a brand new coach takes some testicular fortitude as far as I'm concerned.

Kerry's contract is up next year, and he's hoping for a longterm deal with the Giants. His hopes are fading, i think.

fuck eli manning. he's a little bitch to let his daddy tell him what to do. it's pathetic. i thought maybe archie was the dick but when reporters tried to get through to archie he had no comment saying he had to talk to tom and eli over things. that just proves eli's into all this nonsense. i originially thought his dad was a bitch. i love the raider's and was hoping he'd slip until #2 so they could grab him. why? it's stupid. he's probably only the 3rd best qb in the draft anyways. roethlisburger has way more upside. he could be a bust but he has more talent and rivers was amazing in college. eli never won the big game and he never even really took over many games. rivers was different. sure he has a shit motion in his arm but who cares. as long as he gets the job done. he beat fsu the last 2 years and played amazing in both games and the osu game was pretty fucking impressive too. i'd much rather take fitz then that little girl. or trade down and pick up some extra picks and hopefully get williams. all i know is whoever gets taylor is gonna have the best safety in the nfl for the next 10 years.

Marquis Hill is my new favorite player.

What I love about this whole situation is that were he not Peyton's brother & Archie's son, he wouldn't be a first round pick. Because of who he's related to, people are fighting to pick him number one.

I just want Rivers to remain on the board until Pittsburgh can get him.

And I like the moving the draft around each year idea. Atlanta is hosting a gathering at the Georgia Dome Saturday where you can come down for free and watch the draft on the big screens in the Dome.

And I predict Kellen Winslow aka K2 (as his agent is calling him) will be fined at least once during his rookie year. I think it's going to be a rude awakening for him to go from UM where he lost like what, 6 games in his career, to an NFL team that probably won't even win 6 games in 2004.

That's not true. I've watched him play at Ole Miss for years (being in the SEC West and all) and he is very very good.

I'm sure being a Manning bumps him up boards, but I think he would be a first rounder regardless. He's not just hype, he is GOOD.

I'm not saying he's poor, but he's at best the third best QB prospect in this draft.

Meh, QB prospects, I'm starting to think that they're as "easy" to predict as pitching prospects. I mean, wasn't there a real issue as to whether Ryan Leef was better than Peyton Manning not so long ago?

I wonder if NFL statisticians employ TINSTAAPP, or would that be TINSTAAQP.

Well let me put it this way:

All of the top 3 have problems:

Rivers: His release is unusual, which could cause serious problems in the NFL.

Rothlisberger: Level of competition he played against sucked.

Manning: Under pressure tends to make terrible decisions.

They aren't all prefect. Manning throws a ball prettier and runs better than his brother, he just doesn't have the mind for the game Peyton does.

Its a crapshoot really, but I would bet on a Manning.



And this just in from Chris Morentsen:

THe Chargers will stay put at 1 and select Manning. It would take the "trade of the century" to not do so.

Hell, screw these guys. I'm takin' The Battleship Lorenzen from UK.

Has there ever been a case where a great college quarterback turned out to be poor in the pros because he had an odd release? I mean, we're not talking about a weak arm, or a tendancy to throw ducks, just a different angle of throwing the ball.

I'm not being a smart-ass or anything, I just can't think of anyone for whom that is the case.

I watched Rivers close-up at the FSU/NC State game last year, and he was just unbelievable. About the time you thought he was cornered, he'd pop that ball out to someone, or run for a couple of yards. I think he only had about 5 incomplete passes that whole game. Lucky for us (FSU), his last incompletion was on 4th down in OT. I like Rivers above Manning and Ben R., probably because I've actually seen him play a bunch of times. I think he's really a gamer. And I'm a Steelers fan, so that's really who I want them to pick.

If SD can trade down and get Rivers that'd make for an interesting move. All of a sudden i've been hearing the Browns are pushing hard to get Gallery too. It'd be a good offseason for them getting big G and Garcia.

GFC:

Regarding Rivers, because of his mechanics, he has by NFL standards a VERY slow release. It leads to more tipped passes than other QB's, more time in the pocket, etc. Also, he is not all that athletic, but he can scramble a little bit.

I think he is very good, although I tend to think JP Losman is better.

Well, let's not deny some home-team bias there. There've been other Tulane QBs that were supposed to be great but under the radar. I can't imagine there's someone who's played against better secondaries than Rivers & he ALWAYS torched them. I just think sometimes we get a little too worried over the little shit.

I agree. And I think Rivers is a great QB, the 2nd or 3rd best in the draft.

There might be some hometown bias, but I'm not really a Tulane fan at all so its not all that much. Losman had NOTHING except Mewelde Moore. His recievers sucked and his O-Line was beyond awful. But he is a great athlete with an awesome arm. He could develop into a really excellent QB. He can sling the ball.

As for other Tulane QB's: Shaun King I think was never really given a fair shake, but his career has been dissappointing. Ramsey SHOULD be the starter in Washington, he proved himself last year. He was injured because Spurrier refused to Max Protect. He got killed.



My Final Predictions for the Saints:

1) DJ Williams OLB, Miami
2a) Derrick Strait CB, Oklahoma
2b) Keary Colbert WR, USC
3) Will Allen S, Ohio State
6) Luke Lawton FB, McNeese St
7a) Matt Mauck QB, LSU
7b) Ryan Boschetti, DT UCLA

I would also not be suprised by any of the following players being picked by us:

Jon Vilma, Dunta Robinson, Reggie Williams, Michael Clayton, Teddy Lehman, Daryl Smith, Dontarrius Thomas, Keith Smith, Joey Thomas, Ricardo Colcough, Bob Sanders, Isaac Sopoaga, Jason Shivers, Junior Savaii, Mathias Askew, Mike Karney, Jeff Smoker, Derrick Hamilton, Bernard Berrian

I recall some concern about a "hitch" in Kerry Collins delivery, and he's had a decent career.

I think Smirk hits on it - it's not so much technique as speed. A slow release is a death sentence in the NFL. Remember highly-rated but slow of release (and foot) Jim Druckenmiller?

Druckenmiller weighed like 280 lbs though. He and Lorenzen should go eat at a buffet together and put the place out of business.

Fuck Eli. I hope they draft him and he acts like an asshole. After the Whole Tillman tribute he'll look like a complete ass.

Draft him and let him sit out the year.

Shit. I wanted Rivers at Pittsburgh. I guess they'll shot for Roethlisberger now. Dammit.

And I agree with some other folks...if San Diego and NY trade QBs, why in the hell didn't they just trade picks? Jeez. Good for him though. A four year starter who gets picked 4th in the draft. But I had him going to the steelers so I get no points for him, though. Dammit again.

Well there you go. #4 plus 3rd round pick, plus 1st and 5th round pick next year for manning

OH MY GOD! Eli Manning ain't worth 1st, 3rd, and 5th round picks. If you haven't heard...the Chargers swapped Manning and Rivers, and the Giants also threw in their 3rd round pick this year, and their first and 5th rounders next year. Ugh.


And color me AMAZED that Washington didn't take Winslow.

On the other hand all the mannings look like Deer caught in headlights when they talk to the media.

Well this is going to be odd... Stephen Jackson is going to be available when the Jets go up? I wanted them to go after a LB obviously but... Curtis Martin's just about done, LaMont Jordan is a free agent after this season...

Hrmmm...