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Phantasm a fraud??

post #1 of 13
5/10/04 at 8:34am
Thread Starter 
I've always enjoyed the Phantasm movies. Especially the first two. What's not to like? Childhood fears running rampant. A menacing Tall Man. Silver brain sucking spheres. Jawas from Hell. And Reggie!

However, a few years ago, right after the video release of P3, I met some "literate" fans at a horror show who were very much opposed to the Phantasm series originality. They claimed that Coscarelli had stolen every element from others sources: H.P. Lovecraft, Bradbury, and a few other sci-fi novelists whose names escape me.

This bothered me. I have read a lot of Lovecraft and Bradbury and have never seen any direct lifts from their work in the Phantasm movies. So I wrote it off. Until I read an old review where the reviewer eluded to the fact that Phantasm plot was again "borrowed."

Anybody have any insight on this one?
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post #2 of 13
5/10/04 at 8:51am
The fact that the Tall Man uses shrunken midget humans as slaves on some other planet may qualify as "cosmic horror" and be slightly Lovecraftian but that in no way means that PHANTASM ripped off Lovecraft. The genre work of filmmakers and writers of the past naturally influences those of the present. It has always been that way and there's nothing wrong with that. There's a difference between being influenced and inspired by other people's work and outright plagiarism. PHANTASM falls into the first category and is definitely one of the more original genre movies made in the last 30 years.
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post #3 of 13
5/10/04 at 8:55am
AFAIK, the only thing that comes near to being a direct "lift" from another source in the Phantasm movies is the use of a hand in a box to teach the young hero about fear, as in Dune.
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post #4 of 13
5/10/04 at 9:28am
Thread Starter 
I agree with you, Wetbones. One other thing. Someone else indicated that in the original Phantasm, there is a Sci-Fi novel on young Mike's desk (in the infamous shotgun shell-hammer scene) which holds some sort of signifgance...
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post #5 of 13
5/10/04 at 11:55am
Quote:
Originally posted by mechshark75
I agree with you, Wetbones. One other thing. Someone else indicated that in the original Phantasm, there is a Sci-Fi novel on young Mike's desk (in the infamous shotgun shell-hammer scene) which holds some sort of signifgance...
I think the Sci-Fi book is brought up on the commentary. I cannot recall what it said about it but I don't recall anything of any particular significance. It's like someone's favorite book or something.

Besides the Dune hand in the box thing and, possibly, evil Jawas (which were supposedly done prior to Star Wars) I didn't see any rip off stuff.
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post #6 of 13
5/10/04 at 1:06pm

Re: Phantasm a fraud??

Quote:
Originally posted by mechshark75
However, a few years ago, right after the video release of P3, I met some "literate" fans at a horror show who were very much opposed to the Phantasm series originality. They claimed that Coscarelli had stolen every element from others sources: H.P. Lovecraft, Bradbury, and a few other sci-fi novelists whose names escape me.
That's just ridiculous. "Literate"? I don't know about that. "Totally dull and pedantic"? Without a doubt.

Phantasm is one cool horror movie, that's all that counts.
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post #7 of 13
5/10/04 at 2:44pm
This all brings us back to the thread on Tarantino..... basically, is getting ideas and inspiration from other people a crime, when you make it all a new an original movie......
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post #8 of 13
5/10/04 at 4:03pm
The first thing that comes to my mind is the "Suspiria" influence.
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post #9 of 13
5/10/04 at 5:21pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Writhing Walt
The first thing that comes to my mind is the "Suspiria" influence.
Point made.

Also, horror themes can only go in so many directions
until you feel like you're washing rehashed versions
of plots and elements.

I just say sit back and enjoy!
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post #10 of 13
5/10/04 at 5:31pm
I think some people in this thread are missing the definition of plagiarism and copy right. Basically if the whole story was very similar to another then it could be considered a fraud.

Sure it borrows from other stories and movies, etc. But just about any fictional work is inspired by another, thats why new movies, new versions, etc keep on coming out. I got no problem with that just as long as one story is not a direct ripoff of someone elses.

Also, last I heard HP Lovecraft's work is public domain. I think the only copy righted work of his are the published volumes and collections.
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post #11 of 13
5/11/04 at 11:26pm
Interesting that ya point out SUSPIRIA as an influence to PHANTASM. Both are favorites of mine......are ya comparing the fact that both are surrealistic?
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post #12 of 13
5/11/04 at 11:47pm
It's a TRAVESHAMOCKERY.
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post #13 of 13
5/14/04 at 4:56pm
Quote:
Originally posted by billylove
Also, last I heard HP Lovecraft's work is public domain. I think the only copy righted work of his are the published volumes and collections.
Actually the rights the Lovecraft's fiction is still considered to be under copywrite by Arkham House.


And...

"Totally dull and pedantic..." - LD Milkman that is quite funny.
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