NBAers going to the Hall of Fame

Bo Outlaw

what has Allen Iverson done to deserve the Hall of Fame? Lebron is premature too though I could eventually see it.

You can add Scottie Pippen since he's technically still playing.

Iverson is one of the league's top scorers and has led his team to the finals. And he's one of the most popular players of his time.

What else do you want him to do?

Win the Bulls a title, of course.

Lebron James is a joke on that list, I don't care how good he is. LeBron James having a long and healthy career is nowhere near a lock, so how can his Hall of Fame status be?

And I know I'll get heat for this, but Reggie Miller shouldn't be a Hall of Famer. He was never the best two in the NBA, hell, he was never the second best two in the league. He was one clutch motherfucker, but a shooting gaurd that played no D, with a career average of 18PPG should not be in the hall.

Scottie Pippen-if he still qualifies for this list-is a lock. And if you're going to say Garnett, you're going to have to include that loser on the Kings. They're comparable in every way, except one... Webber's done it for longer.

The same people who are already saying that Lebron is a HOF'er are the same people who are already saying Michael Vick is a HOF'er.

How about go to practice to get his shooting percentage above .417. If you shoot as much as he does you're going to score.

Hall of Fame should be for the elite players. AI could still get there but his game STILL needs maturing.

Webber might make it but his consistant choking is a problem.

AI isn't an elite player? What NBA are you watching? The guy has been a top scorer since he entered the league. How is that not elite?

since when did you have to be in the top 2 players at your position to be considered a hall of famer? i would say clyde drexler was never really in the top 2 shooting guards (although he's the sole reason the blazers never drafted jordan) in the league but yet he made it to the hall. why did he make it? because he had a great career. plus he did make the nba all 50 team. i fucking hate miller's guts but i think he should be considered a lock.

i got a question. how the fuck did bill walton make the hall of fame let alone the nba all 50? he wasn't a GREAT nba player. well he coulda been but the fucker was always injured. he had a few great seasons but was basically average the rest of the way and he just happened to end his career on one of the best teams ever. he made only 2 all stars games. so it wasn't like he had the longevity of a lot of good seasons. just because he had a fucking unreal college career doesn't automatically make him an nba hall of famer.

Are you actually comparing Clyde Drexler to Reggie Miller? Drexler was All-NBA first team in '92, had two All-NBA second teams, and two All-NBA third teams. Reggie Miller only managed three All-NBA third teams. Drexler was a 9 time All-Star, Miller a 4 time All-Star.

It's not even close, that's why Clyde Drexler is in the Hall, and Reggie Miller shouldn't even be considered.

Seriously, look at Millers numbers, does any single year even pop out at you as hall of fame calibur?

Bison Dele is still playing, right? He's definately in.

Isn't he dead?

you don't get what i'm saying. obviously clyde was a better player but you said miller wasn't in the top 2 at his position so he shouldn't be in the hall. i was pointing out that clyde never really was in the top 2. ok one year he was. and 2 other's he was in the top 4. you gotta find a better reason then that to omit miller i think.

yeah didn't his brother kill him on his boat and he's lost at sea.

My point is, you gotta be considered the best player at your position at some point. The only reason I even said the top two, was because he played during the Jordan era.

How a four time All-Star could be considered a Hall of Famer is beyond me.

well under your hall of fame there wouldn't be too many player's in it. not even clyde the glide.

Drexler was considered the second best gaurd in the NBA (1992 All-NBA first team).

About your other point, I agree, there wouldn't be a lot of players in the Hall of Fame. Though everyone on Fabfunk's list outside of Lebron and Miller would make it following my crazy criteria.

but for one year. one year doesn't make a career. i think to get into the hall you need 2 things. like you said you must be one of the best at your position in your era. what happens to someone like payton? when he first came into the league magic, kj, timmy hardaway and stockton were all better then him. then a couple years later in his career when he got better then those players kidd came into the league. so who gets in? i say all of em. they were all fucking great. the 2nd thing you need is longevity. thats something i give to miller. he scored around 20 points a game for like 12 years in a row or so and he was the man on his team in jordan's most difficult round he ever faced while he won his rings.

yeah i can't believe he actually mentioned lebron. if lebron stays healthy and plays for awhile i'm pretty sure he'll make it but for all we knew he could go out tomorrow and can blow out his knee and there goes his career. someone made a good call on people proclaiming michael vick as if he's a mixture of montana and randall cuningham.

Nothing happens to a guy like Gary Payton BTW, he was All NBA first team in 1998 and 2000. All I'm saying is, you'll be hard pressed to find a hall of famer that hasn't made the All-NBA first team at some point.

i know he has. but one or two years as an all nba team doesnt make you the best.

It certainly does for the year you make it, and if a player was never considered for it, it definitely says something about that player.

To me, a Hall of Famer is a great player, not someone who has great totals when he retires (Think Mariano Rivera vs. John Franco).

being the best for one year means shit though. one year does not make a great career. so if miller made the all nba 1st team once during his career i guess you'd say he's a hall of famer. that wouldn't make me think he's any better. his fifteen year's in the league has already proven enough to me. so whats gagne in the hall for baseball because he won the cy young last season. how about bob welch? pat hentgen?

i said around 20 a game........

89-90 24.6
90-91 22.6
91-92 20.7
92-93 21.2
93-94 19.9
94-95 19.6
95-96 21.1
96-97 21.6
97-98 19.5
98-99 18.4
99-00 18.1
00-01 18.9

that's 12 year's of "around" 20 points per game. fucking consistency. sure he even passed larry bird on the all time scoring list in the past season or two.

The criteria should be a little different for hoops than other sports. Look, there are only five positions... you could be a heck of a player and not crack the top two at your position and yet you could still be thought of as one of the NBA's finest.

My criteria:

Best player on the team (not an absolute but man there should at least be some debate ie would you rather have Malone or Stockton or Kobe or Shaq or Jordan or Pippen... just through that last one in for fun))
Playoffs and championships earn bigger points here than in football or baseball
Consistency and longevity are always important
Raw stats are somewhat less important.

Look at Reggie Miller:
Definitely the best player on the Pacers for a decade.
No championship but some great playoff runs
Consistently good into his later years
Good, if not great stats
Thought of as the best shooter in the league A. B. (after Bird)
Best Trey shooter who was also a superstar player and not a role player

Clyde Drexler was a great player... phenomenal. Yes Miller was not as great as Clyde but... the Hall over the last few years let in McHale, Worthy, and Robert Parish. Robert Parish! You're telling me that those three belong over Reggie Miller. No way. Hey, I'd put LeBron over Parish right now. And if there was a player whose career was overrated, due to his proximity to genius, more than James Worthy than you would obviously be thinking about Scottie Pippen and there is no way he makes the HOF.

In short, Fab's list is good minus Lebron due to age.

so you're saying pippen was overrated? no way in hell. when jordan left the game pippen was the best all around player in the game. he was forward who could control the ball well, score, pass and was a fucking shut down defender. he was bruce bowen ONLY pippen could score and handle the ball. not too bad at all. pippen was basically the bulls point guard in the triangle offense. the only thing with him was that he was a tad overrated at the beginning of his career. he probably never should have made the dream team in 92 but after that he became one of the best players in the game. first ballot hall of famer easily. i don't get your argument about mchale, worthy and parish. they're all worthy (no pun intended) of the hall. mchale was a great defensive player to go along with being pretty good at scoring. worthy was a big time player and parish played the most games ever. you gotta give him credit for that. plus all were big time winners. if of any was least deserving i'd have to go with you on parish though. he had the least amount of talent of the three.

i think that's spot on. it's not like he was a steve kerr type player who would just come off the bench to shot a trey when the team needed one.

Scottie Pippen in his prime was the most overrated player in the game. The fact that he was in the NBA Top 50 list was the biggest gaffe on there.

Worthy played with Jordan in college and Magic and Kareem in the pros. We will never know how good he really was. Hell, I could put up a double double playing with Magic and Kareem. Yeah, Mchale and Parish were good players but Bird was the basketball genius.

Proximity to superstars must be taken into account when analyzing a player's talent unless that player is the superstar on their team. It's easier with Malone/Stockton since they usually played with three other starters who would be benchwarmers on every other team.

I would take everyone (except LeBron) on Fab's list over Worthy, McHale, and Parish. Pippen should not be in the Hall of Fame but he would fit in with the previously named three.

it doesn't matter if you think someone is overrated. pippen is definitely at worst a hall of fame worthy player. without pippen jordan would have been lucky to win half of the rings he has. the same thing could be said about bird if he never had mchale. you mustn't understand the importance of defense in basketball and i don't mean tall guys who get rebounds or blocks. they're an overrated stat in some cases.

another debatable player to consider for the hall would be grant hill. he was terrific while he was in detroit. if only he was able to play a few more seasons healthy. who knows its possible he could make a come back and play for a couple more seasons. although its unlikely.

He was in Detroit for what, 4 or 5 years?

Grant Hill was not good enough for long enough. Period. I'd bet he trails Glenn Robinson's solid-not-great career numbers in shooting pct, ppg, and total reb. NO WAY should Hill be considered for the HoF based on his NBA career - though he might get in, since the basketball HoF takes the college career into account.

Pippen was a good all around defender. He was also the third best on his own team (you may have heard of Michael Jordan and Dennis Rodman). There's a difference between being a good player (Pippen) and being a HOF worthy player (guys mentioned in first post). Pippen was (is?) a unique talent who was the third best defender on his own team, rode the coattails of the NBA's best player, and who was no better in his prime than Anfernee Hardaway despite what the makers of the original NBA Jam may have thought. His signature moment was throwing a temper tantrum in the last few seconds of a playoff game and refusing to go back in with the rest of the squad. Quick, let's label him one of the best of all time.

I don't think so.

See, I give Pippen far more credit than you do. Third best defender on his team? Eh, I don't give Jordan that much credit on the other side of the ball (especially in the latter run). Rodman? I'd say it's a push at worst.

In my eyes, with his versatility, Scottie Pippen was one of the best defenders (if not the best defender) in the sport for a good 10 seasons. Top 50 player? I wouldn't go that far, but for what he brought to the table in every facet of the game, I'd put him in the hall.

Then again, I think those Bulls teams with Jordan, Harper, Pippen and Rodman were underrated. Their team defense was ridiculous.

Ben Wallace anyone?

i don't get why you're arguing against me? you said the same exact thing as me. grant hill played 6 years in detroit and was the best small forward in the game. i even said only if he played a few more seasons and that for all we know he could come back and play a few more. if he had 3 or 4 more good seasons he'd get in. oh and that glenn robinson bet i'm pretty sure you'd lose.

you're way off base. jordan was a fucking unreal defender but later in his career pippen was better the him because jordan never had the same quickness he had in his first run in the league. rodman was the best rebounder in the league. not the best defender. can anybody even realize rebounding and blocks doesn't necessarily make you a great defender. bruce bowen and ron artest are probably the two best defender's in the game now and neither of them put up huge defensive number's. it's the number's you don't see what make's them special. they hold top opponent's to low scoring number's or less shot attempts. pippen was one of the best. i think the six ring's on both of his hand's is his signature moment.

remember randy brown? he was a great defender who would come in to pest at the other team's point guard's. in the eastern finals in like 96 or so timmy hardaway had like 30 points in the first half and then in the 2nd half they played brown on him for the rest of the way. hardaway then ended the game with like 34 points. the bulls had all those little role player's who fit the bill to a tee.

Below is a list of all of the NBA Defensive Player of the Year award winners, sorted by year. This award was not handed out until the end of the 1982-83 season.

Year Player Team
1987-88 Michael Jordan Chicago Bulls
1989-90 Dennis Rodman Detroit Pistons
1990-91 Dennis Rodman Detroit Pistons

Scottie Pippen never won this award but we're putting him in the Hall based on defense. Unreal.

Good defender, good player, not worthy of the Hall. If you think rings are what makes a player a HOF'er than we can punch Steve Kerr's ticket right now!

Let's see:

http://www.sportsline.com/nba/playerindex/POS_F

Career stats:

Robinson, 20.8 ppg on 45.9 shooting; Hill 21.0 ppg on 47.5 shooting.

Weird; I DO recall at one point (maybe 3-4 years in) Robinson had a better carrer shooting pct and ppg avg. Of course, Hill improved every year, Robinson never really rose above what he came in the league doing.

Scottie Pippen, a "good" defender?

All Defense first team:
1992
1993
1994
1995
1996
1997
1998
1999

All NBA first team:
1994
1995
1996

#4 All time in steals, behind John Stockton, Michael Jordan and Maurice Cheeks

Those aren't achievements put up by a "good" defender. And I'd put him in the hall because of his all around game, not solely based on his defensive prowess.

i don't think you can say rodman was a better defender then pippen because he won 2 defensive player of the year rewards. it's much more difficult to win it by being a straight up defender who doesn't put up those huge statistical number's. rodman won those awards because he out rebounded everybody by like 3 or 4 boards a game. not because he would hold karl malone to 15 points. he had those big numbers that simple minded people could see and be like "wow he's good!" pippen never had that. he's less appreciated because he never had those number's. number's in defense is way over rated. it's not like scoring. to be a good scorer you must put up the big numbers. with defense you don't. it's much more difficult to tell if somebody is a good defender compared to a scorer. you'd actually have to watch tape of a game to see this. it's kinda like an offensive tackle in football. you never saw tony boselli on the cover of madden, you'd see michael vick or warren sapp when he'd get 15 sacks. you'd never see an offensive tackle win offensive rookie of the year or something like that either. even though that player made the pro bowl and the guy who won didn't. i'm not saying that rodman wasn't good because he was. i just think pippen was better overall. i'd list em in this order jordan (especially when he was motivated), pippen and rodman. all 3 were amazing. i'll never forget the time when stackhouse came into the league saying he thought the nba was easier then he expected it. then he played against jordan and jordan torced him for like 45 points and held him to under 10 points.

Tracy McGrady—perhaps in time, I can't imagine anyone else on that list making it though.

Glenn? No way. Ben needs more time. Same with Tracy. Vince needs to win. Sam is an interesting name. Latrell will have trouble getting past the choking incident.

i really like cassell but he's no hall of famer. he's always been very good but never really great. although he did have a terrific year this season. vince? never. he has no fucking guts. it will always hold him back.