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Angel Series Finale - "Not Fade Away" - 05/19/04

post #1 of 129
Thread Starter 
Jordan Levin and his flunkies had Angel dusted.
I don't know about you but I'm quite disgusted.
It's the end of an era, that much is true.
To the WB, two words, "FUCK YOU!"
post #2 of 129
Nice Barry but just so we can make this nice and official.
From thewb.com
Quote:
Series Finale | wednesday | 9/8c
Angel (David Boreanaz) and company spend the day as if it were their last as they prepare to bring down the evil Circle of the Black Thorn. Putting their lives on the line, Spike (James Marsters) confronts a demon cult, Lorne (Andy Hallett) faces off with Lindsay (Christian Kane), Gunn (J. August Richards) takes on an evil senator and Angel battles Hamilton (Adam Baldwin), the henchman of the Senior Partners.

Vincent Kartheiser guest stars as Connor. Jeffrey Bell directed the episode written by Jeffrey Bell & series creator Joss Whedon.
Anyway just to echo what Barry said, its been one hell of a ride.
post #3 of 129
And I can't believe I'm gonna miss this. Thank Joss for VCR's. This will be a sad night.

And guess what Jordan Levin is replacing Angel with? Jeff fucking Foxworthy and Drew Carey. He thinks the Smallville audienve will be the kind that will watch this hillbilly. That Kristen chick interviewed him and I just wanted to strangle him. His excuse for Angel was low rerun ratings and some other bullshit.

I hope Jordan Levin gets puppett cancer.
post #4 of 129
Really? Wheres that interview?
post #5 of 129
this is it.

As of next week, I will be watching one less television show each week.

Actually, I am considering giving up all Smallville as well (waiting for them to come out on DVDs) just to show my disgust for the network it airs on.

This show should be great. I can't wait.

p.s. Why is Wes not mentioned in the preview as fighting someone?
post #6 of 129
So anyone ready to place your bets?

Who Dies?
Who Lives
Who Dies and then comes back at a later date?
Does Buffy show?
Any Buffy alumni?
Will WB be a smoking heap of rubble come tomorrow?
post #7 of 129
Wes and Gunn are gonna bite it. And I bet it WILL end it a cliffhanger.
post #8 of 129
I'm betting on Wes dying, SAVING Illyria. And I don't think it will end in cliffhanger, as I don't forsee there being a chance in the near future for that to ever be resolved.
post #9 of 129
Wes seems like the likely person to kick the bucket, if anyone.

I'll be surprised no matter what though.
post #10 of 129
Here we go....
post #11 of 129
*ahem* Fuck. The WB. Oh, and there's a freakin' Catwoman TV spot on. Fuck monkeys.
post #12 of 129
I really hope Spike fulfills the Prophecy.

Angel did sign over his own nullification of it!
post #13 of 129
Well. That was kind of unsatisfying.
post #14 of 129
Quote:
Originally posted by El Gray
Well. That was kind of unsatisfying.

Respectfully disagreed.
post #15 of 129
Damn! It defiitely seemed like they were gonna bit off more than they could chew up in an hour and indeed that seems to be the case. It didn't even really end. I'm pissed at the WB even more now. What a joke. If those tv movies don't come then I'll be really upset. ARGH! It was a good show, but there is definitely more story to tell.

What a frustrating end to an amazing show. Thank you WB, and go die.

Maybe it was Joss Whedon's ploy to end the show like that so we'd all hate the WB even more. If so, well, it worked. If not, well, it still worked.

I need to shower now. I feel dirty...
post #16 of 129
I loved it. The fight goes on. Fanfic writers: to your computers!

Funny, the ending it most reminded me of was the last episode of "Blackadder".
post #17 of 129
Perhaps too harsh. I think I just wanted a few more minutes of final violence or something. I was referring only to the very end. Good stuff otherwise.
post #18 of 129
Yup thought everyone would be dissapointed. I was watching this with a buddy and he said "are you fucking serious" when the credits rolled. Thats what I like to call a cop out folks. What sucks is I knew about this cliffhanger shit before it aired and it sorta ruined the ep for me. Not ruined as in spoiled but ruined as in I knew that nothing I was watching was realyl gonna get resolved. Some ddi of course. But couldn't they of gave us 2 hours? I mean christ there were so amny people fighting and yet I only saw a small portion of it. With of course the exception of the Hamilton fight scene. I would of loved to see gunn do more, or at bare minimum see Illyria crush that car. But no we car half fight scenes.

However there were cool moments.
Connor revealing he got his memories back and fighting beside Angel.
Lorne killing Lindsay
What lil bit if Gunn fight we saw
the army coming towards him....wish we coulda saw it
Angel fight with hamilton
Harmony betrayal
post #19 of 129
Quote:
Originally posted by PuppetMasterFan
knew that nothing I was watching was realyl gonna get resolved.

I think pretty much all there was to be resolved (Shanshu, Wesley's torment, the battle with Wolfram and Hart, the Spike/Angel/Buffy love triangle) has been resolved. You're just in the camp of "I want to see Angel fight a dragon." Which I must also agree with, but I don't think that was the point of the episode.
post #20 of 129
So it WAS a cliffhanger after all. That or a fitting end to the series with Angel and company going out in a blaze of glory. I would've liked the last shot to be Angel getting his humanity back and walking into the dawn but this ending is rather appropriate in its own right. Some of my favorite moments:

1. Spike's Poetry Slam- Absolutely funny and touching at the same time.

2. Wes's death. Very emotional. Loved when Illyria said "Do you want me to lie to you now?"

3. Angel's master plan to get rid of the society of the Black Thorn.

4. Connor- Actually pretty likable.

Really cool ep. Didn't let me down until the very end. We needed another hour dammit!
post #21 of 129
Quote:
I think pretty much all there was to be resolved (Shanshu, Wesley's torment, the battle with Wolfram and Hart, the Spike/Angel/Buffy love triangle) has been resolved. You're just in the camp of "I want to see Angel fight a dragon." Which I must also agree with, but I don't think that was the point of the episode.
Yes but wouldn't you love to see if Gunn dies? How bout what happens to Lindsays girlfriend. And if Angel gave up the shanshu prophecy then that leaves spike right? But did spike live or die? If he does then the prophecy sin't fulfilled right? Well if its not fulfilled then its not really a fucin prophecy is it? And if Angel lives wouldn't you love to see him with Connor? Doing the whole father son thing. And what about Lorne? Anyone curious where he went? Resolved? ya gotta be fuckign kidding me. And im sorry but for the final battle that was VERY anti climatic.
post #22 of 129

Ok - I cried

so sue me - I swear the Want me to lie to you now broke my heart and made me tear up. Then when I replayed the last few minutes for my lovely husband I lost it. Go figure. So pissed this is off the air.
post #23 of 129
Quote:
Originally posted by PuppetMasterFan
Yes but wouldn't you love to see if Gunn dies? How bout what happens to Lindsays girlfriend. And if Angel gave up the shanshu prophecy then that leaves spike right? But did spike live or die? If he does then the prophecy sin't fulfilled right? Well if its not fulfilled then its not really a fucin prophecy is it? And if Angel lives wouldn't you love to see him with Connor? Doing the whole father son thing. And what about Lorne? Anyone curious where he went? Resolved? ya gotta be fuckign kidding me. And im sorry but for the final battle that was VERY anti climatic.

Unless Gunn is made of magic, he dies in ten minutes like Illyria said. It does leave Spike, and to the second part of that question I'll quote Angel: "Don't believe everything you're foretold." We did see him with Connor. Lorne is the only thing I can agree with you on in terms of 'could be further delved into'. The whole fucking point is that the battle is never over, ergo NO FINAL BATTLE. The point is, the series can never be furthered via film or television ever again and I feel satisfaction and closure. I'm sorry you can't feel the same way.
post #24 of 129
Probably my favorite series finale I've ever seen. And, for the record, the open-endedness (don't really see it as a cliffhanger, per se. I mean, it's not like it was the fucking Twin Peaks finale) really worked for me. Finales that tie everything up are boring (Friends, MASH, etc).

Oh, and I'll lay money on Whedon starting principal photography on a Buffy/Angel movie within 3 years.
post #25 of 129
Quote:
Yes but wouldn't you love to see if Gunn dies? How bout what happens to Lindsays girlfriend. And if Angel gave up the shanshu prophecy then that leaves spike right? But did spike live or die? If he does then the prophecy sin't fulfilled right? Well if its not fulfilled then its not really a fucin prophecy is it? And if Angel lives wouldn't you love to see him with Connor? Doing the whole father son thing. And what about Lorne? Anyone curious where he went? Resolved? ya gotta be fuckign kidding me. And im sorry but for the final battle that was VERY anti climatic.
None of the above. Sorry, but ANGEL was never the sort of show that provided all the answers -- if you want that much closure, you'll have to stick with things like the FRIENDS finale. It's good that it's over. It's good that it ended the way it did. I didn't want final answers. I just wanted the questions stated properly, and then drop the curtain one last time. And that's exactly what happened.

Whedon and Bell came up with a script that was all muscle and no fat, and roughly 80 billion times better than the Buffy finale, and this show died with honor.

Way to go, Mutant Enemy.
post #26 of 129
Personally, I thought it was a great ending. They are fighting the good fight. The knight goes to slay the dragon. What makes humans good is fighting the demonas/evil, to paraphrase Angel.

I don't understand the need to have everything wrapped up nice and neat. Ambiguity is nice.

I like to think only the three with powers make it. Gunn goes down swinging. Next day back to work fighting the bad guys. Who knows, maybe they die and Buffy and the slayers come to LA and kick ass in revenge.

Loved the execution of Lindsey. That was probably my favorite part other than Spike finally getting drunk and the final conclusion.

I did have to laugh at the thanks from the WB.
post #27 of 129
I don't know about you folks, but I loved that ending.

Rather than try and force some conclusion, the writers took the fact that their time was cut short and turned it into continuation. It's not important whether or not Angel and his team win or lose. It's not about that. The important thing is fighting, no matter what.

I was really sad to see Wes go, but I was expecting it, so it didn't sting me as much as Cordelia's death, although Wes was easily my favorite character in the series. His character arc was nothing short of remarkable. Alexis Denisof was amazing and the amount of pathos and emotion he brought to the role was exemplary.

In terms of great moments, this episode had them in spades. Just a few of my favorites:

- Spike doing poetry and being applauded for it.

- Angel basically telling Eve that he had Lindsey killed and didn't give a shit.

- "People who don't care about anything will never understand those who do."

"Yeah, but we won't care." -- Adam Baldwin needs to be cast in more roles. His role as Jayne in Firefly and now this have just blown my hair back.

- "I want to slay the dragon."

Oh, and as for the "Your friends at the WB", I have no friends at the WB. The WB is filled only with my enemies. It's been said before and I'll say it again: Fuck you, WB.

But praise be to Whedon & Co. They created a series finale which I feel was much better than the one Buffy recieved. And as for this season, I think it's at least as good as Season 2 of Buffy if not more so. It was easily the best show on television this year. Good job guys. Thanks.
post #28 of 129
Quote:
Originally posted by Matt Goldberg
Rather than try and force some conclusion, the writers took the fact that their time was cut short and turned it into continuation.
Yep. EXACTLY. That was farking BRILLIANT. I can't believe how Joss and co. keep seemingly writing themselves into a corner and then turning it to their advantage.
post #29 of 129
Wow. That easily trumped the Buffy finale. I can't think of a more perfect ending for this show than showing Angel & Company facing impossible odds, still fighting, still trying. Perfect fucking ending.
post #30 of 129
An ending Butch and Sundance would be proud of.

Also this Friday I'll be hauling a load of cow manure to the front of the WB Studio ,and spreading it on thier front doorstep to express my opinion over what they did to this show. Anyone care to join me ?
post #31 of 129
Thread Starter 
For those that care, Joss Whedon may stop by www.bronzebeta.com to chat following the west coast's airing of the finale.
post #32 of 129
It's funny to read other people's reactions, in other less savory areas of the interweb, people outraged that things weren't wrapped up, or that Angel didn't become human. Guess they weren't listening to all that stuff about evil always being around and that the important thing isn't defeating evil but fighting it.
post #33 of 129
Wow, people didn't like how it ended? That's just... odd...

It was a decent episode, though a lot of stuff just didn't work for me. Lindsey's death felt like it should have worked, but somehow didn't on screen. Wes' death? The way he slurred his lines, he seemed more drunk than mortally wounded. Illyria's moment? It just felt forced, and the FX really took me out of the moment.

Anyway, enough harping on the negatives. The poetry slam was genius. Having Gunn's character go back to the beginning, with Anne coming back and everything was great to see. Seeing Angel and Conner having a somewhat functional relationship was nice. And did I mention Hamilton rocked.

The ending? Quite frankly, I thought it was perfect. It was never about them beating Wolfram & Hart, it was about them taking it on. Just like with Buffy, they knew exactly which note to end the series with.

[Edit: Anybody else out there think that Illyria was setup to eventually be the Anya of this show? I mean, with lines like "Try not to die. You are not unpleasant to my eyes," and her gradual shift towards more human emotions just seemed eerily familiar]
post #34 of 129
Quote:
Originally posted by MoNkaholic
Wow, people didn't like how it ended? That's just... odd...

The ending? Quite frankly, I thought it was perfect. It was never about them beating Wolfram & Hart, it was about them taking it on. Just like with Buffy, they knew exactly which note to end the series with.
It worked, and it did a wonderful job of doing so. Whereas the show ends, the fight lives on. And it was great seeing the team coming together near the end.

And yes, the "Thank You" note from the WB was hilarious. But really, thanks for the memories.
post #35 of 129
I love Terry Pratchett and in one of his books, a group of ass kickers, immortals, the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse, are fighting seemingly impossible odds. Death says, "IN ORDER TO HAVE A CHANGE OF FORTUNE AT THE LAST MINUTE YOU HAVE TO TAKE YOUR FORTUNE TO THE LAST MINUTE. WE MUST DO WHAT WE CAN."
"And if that doesn't work?"
"THEN WE DID WHAT WE COULD, UNTIL WE COULD NOT." THAT snippet of quote is what ran through my mind most of the episode. I've always liked it and it just seemed to apply so well. Fighting the impossible fight, not knowing whether they would live or die but willing to take any of the consequences, they were willing to do what they could, until they could not. And that's how the episode ended for me, on that near perfect note. Fighting all there is too fight while the body could still work. Lorne did what he could, but then couldn't stomach what he and the others were becoming. Wesley and maybe Gunn, the two remaining non immortals, knew it was very possibly then end, and went down swinging. And the three immortals are left standing, ready to give evil the bloody nose it deserves. It was great. Just enough closure to make me glad I watched the show and enough left open so that it felt totally like Angel. I can't think of a better ending.

A friend pointed out to me that the poem that Spike did was the one in season 2, when you see him changed, that earned him the nickname William the Bloody. To Cecile, right? I'm too lazy to check, but I think he's right. Just the fact that there's no "loading up" scene before the big fights was great. No, they went and spent their day in the best way they could think. Fred and Wesley's last scene ripped me apart, especially his little "Hey there," when she changes. Goddamn, I'm going to be thinking about this all week long. I've never really stuck with a show long enough to see a proper series finale (I didn't have UPN so Buffy's will have to wait until 7 hits dvd), but this one made me glad that I had. Shit, I ramble. How's this for a summary: I liked it and I'm sad to see Angel off the air.

Oh, and fuck the WB.
post #36 of 129
This was a good episode, a very good ending to this season that would've been the perfect way to open up the next season. But it wasn't a fitting end to the show. It would've been alot better had it been an hour longer, but I think even still it wouldn't have really worked as the series finale.

It may be the overstatement of the year, but I believe I speak for most everyone when I say:

FUCK YOU WB!
post #37 of 129
Quote:
Originally posted by Matt Goldberg
I don't know about you folks, but I loved that ending.
I thought it was a great ending. I didn't ex[ect Angel staring off into the distance like Buffy did saying everything was going to be ok.

I would have loved to see more bad ass fighting but I can understand why not.

Angel, Spike, Gunn, and Illyria staring down a army of demons and a dragon was a great sight to see. The fight goes on and it will never end.

Spike and Illyria need a spinoff show.
post #38 of 129
Illyria, Spike and Crash, don't forget Crash.
post #39 of 129
Also I loved Lindsey"s last line: "But Angel is supposed to kill me, not some flunky"

And Spike volunteering to be the betrayer and asking if he could at least deny Angel 3 times.
post #40 of 129
Stand back folks, I'm about to get pretentiously poetical:

"Do not go gently into that good night,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light."
--Dylan Thomas

I can't think of a better summation of what Angel is, and, perhaps, what the tv of Joss Whedon has been about in the seven years we've shared in it, than this episode.

Because real life is not shiny. Because too often, the Freds, the Wesleys, the Cordys, and the Taras too often get taken from us too soon while the Lindsays and the Harmonys never seem to go away. Because real life isn't like TV. We want it to be, we want to think that we can all meet at Central Perk or Cheers for one final drink, we want to think we can ride into the Wonder Year sunsets, but that simply isn't true. But more often than not, the ones we care about go away or even betray us.

Whedon understood that, and he told us, in Buffy, in Angel, and in Firefly, that the most important thing in this world is to live in it, to really live. And when we get kicked in the teeth, get back up again and DO THE JOB. Because the will to never give up, to always keep fighting, and, yes, to never fade away, is not only what makes us human, it's what makes us heroes.

It's the stuff legends are made of, and legends never die.

And neither will Angel, Spike, Gunn, and Illyria (despite all seeming evidence to the contrary). Not while we have the shows. Not while we have the stories.

Best series finale ever? Well, no, that honor still belongs to the Homicide Life on the Street TV Movie. But I'm hard-pressed to think of a better one since.

Because, in reflection, this was the send-off Buffy deserved. This was the perfect capper to an astonishing era in televison.

And yes, it was, a wonderful ride.

"I want to slay a dragon...Let's go to work."

Thanks, Joss.
post #41 of 129
Saw Joss Whenon's posts at The Bronze Beta. While he says to give Jordan Levin a break because he let Buffy/Angel be on for 10 total seasons(imagine if Fox had them.)

I see his point but the guy killed 2 shows that had much life left in them. And it's not like he replaced them w/ anything good.

So is it time to firebomb the WB's offices? Hang a frog from a tree? Shit on their lawns?
post #42 of 129
I think this is all for Whedon on that board tonight:

"Can't stay long. Wanted to say thank you one more time, to all of you except anyone who ever criticized anything ever at all. I came on these boards in Buffy's first year and the support -- and even the criticism -- has been more helpful than I can type. I set out in television with one simple goal: to purchase a russian bride. Didn't work out. Immigration stuff -- it's complicated. But I did get to make this show, and that other one, and that other other one, and meet some of the best artists and the best friends I've ever known.

I had dinner with Tim Minear the other night, and we talked about what kind of show we want to make next. And it always comes back to the same themes... people getting strength. People helping out. People being thankful for whatever they have, be it power, a decent life, or a fun-tastic russian bride. And I'm thankful that for the last eight years my cohorts and I got to feel like the superheroes. 'Cause of y'all. I don't know if the Buffyverse is going to return to TV, but I hope so, and I know we'll be putting SOMETHING out there. Maybe on HBO, 'cause I like me some cussin'.

Keep you posted.

-j."
post #43 of 129
Quote:
Originally posted by Casey Moore
I did have to laugh at the thanks from the WB.
Not me. I felt that "thanks" from WB was a slap in the face and it actually pissed me off.

And I loved the ending.

"I want to slay the dragon." Brilliant.

I don't see it continuing with Angel in any future movies. Boroneaz already said he is no longer interested in television, so let him go to the land of SMG. But the ending really leaves it open for Spike.

Angel signs his right to Shanshu away, and that leaves Spike as the prophesy boy (Spike: "As long as it isn't you") We lose Gunn and Wes, but they are Angel's men anyway.

Maybe a Sunnydale players/Spike movie in the future? I can see it without Boroneaz or SMG, and it could still work.

Gunn dead.
Wes dead.
Lorne gone.
Lindsay dead.
Fred dead.

That leaves Angel, Spike and Connor as the only major players left, so Angel is pretty much history.

Nice finale.
post #44 of 129
A near perfect finale to one of the best shows to ever grace network television. I say "near perfect" because Wes's death really annoys me. It's too similar to Anya's death...it's bad enough that Joss is killing my favorite character on the show, but the fact that it happens in the last five minutes of the series renders it emotionally pointless. Killing Wes (or Anya, or whoever) halfway through the season would be devestating. Killing him in the second-to-last scene of the series just feels like you're trying to wring some tears out of the audience. If the characters aren't given time to mourn his loss, then neither is the audience. So yeah...Wes should have lived, at least right up to the point where the credits began to roll.

Other than that, this was a homerun episode.

Fuck you, WB. Get cancer and die shitting blood.
post #45 of 129
Damn good ending. Deep, heavy stuff that never failed to entertain.

But I remember thinking as Wes died that they could easily bring him back. I mean, death isn't much of anything in the Buffy-verse. He is one of the most deep and conflicted characters on T.V. for a goddamn long time.

I would certainly watch a show starring him coming back from the dead, utilizing his sorcery training, demonic knowledge, and gun badassery to take down bad guys on a regular basis. Kind of like Constantine. And imagine that on HBO. Badass.
post #46 of 129
Only if he comes back as a zombie ---- with a SOUL!
post #47 of 129
Thread Starter 
I ended up getting banned and deleted on the Bronze Beta for posting this poem for Joss:

A Hole In Our Hearts

Jordan Levin and his flunkies had Angel dusted.
I don't know about you but I'm quite disgusted.
Another quality show has been crushed, déjà vu.
Things in this world are terribly askew.
With your plans, the suits did screw.
To the WB, I extend two words, "FUCK YOU!"
My condolences to the Mutant Enemy cast and crew.
I know you all must feel Illyria-blue.
You break our hearts, while giving us vamp fu.
For sharing your genius, we all say thank you.
It's the end of an era, that much is true.
Good luck in the future, with all you pursue.

Thanks to Joss, Jeff, Ben, Sarah, Elizabeth, Steven, David and Drew.
As well as David, J., Alexis, Amy, Andy, James and Mercedes too.


*I guess the mods didn't like the four letter word I chose...
post #48 of 129
Barry, I got to say, that your enthusasim is boundless and admirable, but your poetry sucks as bad as Spike's.
post #49 of 129
You know one storyline that was necer tied up that I would be interested in seeing in the future was when the slayers showed up and took the potential that abducted Spike to safety.

Then they said no one trusted Angel and co., and that they got their orders from Buffy.

I wanna know about the ever growing number of slayers - you know they can't all be good - and maybe something with Faith.

so, to add to my list

Spike
Faith
the Slayers (maybe with Dawn)
Connor
Illyria
and maybe some people from Sunnydaye (like Andrew)
some bad guys (girls) like Harmony and Eve

We gots enough for a new show sometime methinks.
post #50 of 129
Unfortunatly The Powers That Be renewed Tru Calling even though it has shit ratings and shittier reviews. They think w/ Friends gone it will pick up an audience. The minds at Fox and the WB must be sharing a brain.

Spike and Faith were to have a spinoff show(meaning no Spike on Angel this year) but Tru fucked that up.
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