Baseball All-Star Game

Alfonseca deserves to be nowhere near the All Star Game. His wins are lucky. He pitces to 1 batter or so and ATL scores right after. Schoenweiss and Shingo? Homer. Most of your other players won't make it. only 1 player from Pitt will. Set up men don't make it so take Hawkins out. Catalanotto? He needs power numbers. He may have killed the Sox but that doesn't make you an all star.

Voting will mess up all star chances. like Jeter hitting under .200 but could win the vote.

Early odds NL-
C-Piazza/Estrada
1B-Pujlos/Thome/Wilson
2nd-Loretta, Kent, Walker,Castillo
SS-Renteria, Matsui(voted in by Japan stuffing ballot)
3B-Rameriz, Rolen, Lowell, Castilla-toughest position.
LF- Bonds/Alou
RF- Berkman/Cabrera
CF-Podsednik/Abreau
OF positions are guesses. that's where i'd figure they play. Bonds being injured will help 1 guy get in maybe and depends if Sosa gets voted in and if he gets back.

P-Randy Johnson, Clemens, Zambrano, Sheets, Glavine, P. Wilson, Beckett(1 FLA starter WILL make the team)
RP-Gagne, Graves, Benitez

Clemens pitching to Piazza will be funny to see and it will happen.

Early AL odds
C-Pudge/Lopez
1B-Giambi(voted in) Delgado
2B-Soriano,Young(SS field could be screwed cuz of Jeter so he can play here
SS-Tejata, Jeter(he'll get voted in)
3B-A-Rod, Mora, Blaylock
RF-Vlad, Ordonez
CF-Beltran, Lawton
LF-Rameriz, ???

SP-Washburn(lucky, high ERA), Mulder, Schilling, Pedro, Rogers, Buehrle
RPRivera, Nathan, Foulke

Not exact list but most of those will make it.

Didn't really object to most of yours, but... Ramirez over Rolen? In what world would that happen?

Aramis Ramirez
.290AVG .337OBP .533SLG

Scott Rolen
.344AVG .403OBP .594SLG

It's not like Ramirez is so much better defensively, that it makes up the difference.

Most positions I just listed posibilities. I don't think Loretta will get ahead of Kent only because of reputation.

But Ramirez could get the votes to be the starter. other than BA their stats are pretty even. Defensively ARAM only has 3 errors just like gold glove Rolen. ARAM has been solid. And w/ all the Cub fans voting it could happen.

1 or 2 3rd basemen are going to be screwed because the NL has depth at 3rd.

Too early to say... I'll call back in a month.

Yeah, Ramirez is as good defensively as Rolen. As if errors were the only way to tell an average defensemen from a gold-glover. Rolen not only makes great plays, but he makes the average play better than most, due in large part to his unbelievably quick release. As soon as the ball hits his glove, it's back out toward first.

And Anya, Monk posted three stats where Rolen has a substantial lead over Ramirez, yet you say 'besides batting average, their stats are even'.

Anyhoo - My AL (these aren't complete obviously)

C - IRod
1B - David Ortiz
2B - Soriano
SS - Michael Young
3B - Melvin Mora
OF - Vlad, Beltran, Manny
SP - Washburn, Kevin Brown, Tim Hudson, Buehrle
RP - Rivera, Folke, Nathan

My NL

C - Piazza
1B - Pujols
2B - Jeff Kent
SS - Jack Wilson (there is SHIT in the NL at SS)
3B - Rolen
OF - Alou, Bonds, Abreu
SP - Randy Johnson, Clemens, Carlos Zambrano, Glavine, Sheets
RP - Gagne, Benitez,

Ramirez vs Rolen-Runs+2, doubles+4, triples-even(1), HR-even(10), RBI -8, TB -2, BB -2, SO -3(better). Mike Lowell beats them both in just about everything except RBI's.

Besides as a player Rolen isn't much for the cluch hitting. And Ramirez has been great on defense making great plays and clutch hitting carrying his team early. Between Lowell, Ramirez, Rolen-it's a tough choice. Add Castillo to the mix and you have more problems. Playing in Colorado hurts him though.

Rolen is the best defensive player at third base I have ever seen, and I grew up watching Mike Schmidt with a passion. Rolen is better.... AND I HATE SCOTT ROLEN. It is hard to say, but it is true.

first of all i can't believe someone actually said delgado is playing ok. he is sucking major cock so far and aramis ramirez is nowhere in the same league defensively as rolen. don't give me that shit about he only has 3 error's so far. it's not even close. anyways here's who i think should make the all star teams as of right now. not who will get voted in or anything.
al
c pudge, posada, martinez
1st harvey, konerko
2nd soriano, uribe
ss young, tejada
3rd arod, mora, blalock
of vlady, manny, maggs, lawton, guillen, beltran, matsui, ichiro
sp rogers, lee, buehrle, mulder, schilling, hudson, brown, garcia
rp rivera, foulke, nathan, frod

nl
c estrada, lo duca
1st casey, pujols, overbay
2nd kent, loretta
ss wilson, izturis
3rd rolen, lowell, rameriz
of bonds, berkman, wilson, alou, burrell, finley, giles, cabrera
sp clemons, penny, glavine, zambrano, johnson, schmidt, sheets, wilson, peavy
rp graves, benitez, gagne

many changes to come...

Hell Paso puts up a nice list, thanks man.

Would you place Overbay over Thome right now???

OVERBAY
g ab r h 2b 3b hr rbi bb K sb/cs avg obp slg ops
51 193 23 64 22 1 6 40 19 42 0 0 .332 .384 .549 .933

THOME
g ab r h 2b 3b hr rbi bb K sb/cs avg obp slg ops
43 161 27 49 12 1 12 26 27 41 0 2 .304 .407 .615 1.022

In my opinion, its no contest. The only reason Thome is not getting RBIs is because the Phillies have no guys on base in front of him. His average will probably dip down to .285 by the all-star break, but still he is playing better then Overbay.


Errors are not really a great indicator on how good a player is defensively. Scott Rolen could play shortstop. He is SO quick on his feet and gets to balls that no other player can get to, and has a cannon arm.

well, the question is if the all star game were now, who would I put on MY team. It's in Houston, so I assume it is NL rules that the pitcher must bat, so no DH.

AL
C - Pudge Rodriguez - .333, 7 HR, 40 RBIs
1B - David Ortiz - .274, 11 HR, 46 RBIs
2B - Alfonso Soriano - .277, 6 HR, 29 RBIs
SS - Michael Young - .338, 8 HR, 34 RBIs
3B - Alex Rodriguez - .295, 12 HR, 29 RBIs
OF - Vlad Guerrero - .357, 14 HR, 49 RBIs
OF - Manny Ramirez - .355, 15 HR, 40 RBIs
OF - Melvin Mora - .377, 10 HR, 37 RBIs
P - Kenny Rogers - 8-2, 3.10
P - Curt Schilling - 6-3, 3.00
P - Esteban Loaiza - 6-3, 3.78
P - Kevin Brown - 6-1, 3.59
RP - Francisco Cordero - 1-0, 18 saves, 2.08
CP - Mariano Rivera - 20 saves, 1.21

NL
C - Craig A. Wilson - .356, 12 HR, 34 RBIs
1B - Sean Casey - .391, 10 HR, 42 RBIs
2B - Jeff Kent - .310, 8 HR, 41 RBIs
SS - Royce Clayton - .305, 5 HR, 17 RBIs
3B - Mike Lowell - .342, 14 HR, 36 RBIs
OF - Barry Bonds - .361, 14 HR, 29 RBIs
OF - Albert Pujols - .317, 17 HR, 40 RBIs (I put Pujols in OF because he deserves a spot, but so does Casey)
OF - Moises Alou - .320, 14 HR, 36 RBIs
P - Roger Clemens - 8-0, 2.27
P - Randy Johnson - 7-4, 2.88
P - Ben Sheets - 5-3, 2.71
P - Tom Glavine - 6-3, 2.31
RP - Danny Graves - 1-3, 26 saves, 2.81
CP - Armando Benitez - 1-0, 20 saves, 0.20

Dissapoiting Positions? 1B in the AL. Where did all the studs go? SS in the NL is a baren wasteland.

Biggest Question? Albert Pujols vs Sean Casey. I cheated to get them both on the list.

Surprises? No Cubs pitchers (Wood and Prior hurt). Craig Wilson? Melvin Mora? Why are these guys not getting more press?

Prediction: The NL's pitching will destroy the AL. And I'm an AL fan. The NL just seems to be filled with more talent this year.

Rolen is good, but better than Schmidt?

I know its almost wrong to say, because Schmidt was amazing, but Rolen is so big and so fast and gets to balls that I really do not think anyone else can get to. Maybe it is just that Schmidt was 20 to 30 years ago, and Rolen is doing all of this today (and my memory may be foggy), but as big as Rolen is I think he can get to balls Schmidt never could. How many men at Rolen's size can move like he can?

But then again, I could be wrong.

Maybe, my love for Schmidt is making my memories of him better than they really were. Certain players (Schmidt, George Brett, Johnny Bench only seem to bring back the best memories)

yes i would place overbay over thome now. i think he's played better overall. basically thome has only hit more homer's which then helps his slugging %. by the time the all star break happen's chances are i'll have thome in there instead of overbay but as of right now i don't think so. you said thome doesn't have many rbi's due to the fact that the phillies have nobody on base. well that hasn't stoped burrell so far (even though thome gets on base for him).

well first of all i don't know how you could list loaiza when he hasn't even been the 2nd best pitcher on his own team, unless you named the other 2 guys which you didn't. secondly you didn't just cheat on putting pujols in the outfield. wilson has only caught one game all season and mora has played 3rd all year. why not add everyday eddie guardado at 1st base.

I guess RedSox Nation learned a thing or two from the Japanese about stuffing the ballot. Nomah's the leading vote getter last I heard, I wonder if he should respectfully decline? Assuming he makes the team, all it would do is give an oppurtunity to another, more deserving player.

Craig Wilson is no catcher and doesn't deserve to start there. W/ 1 rep from every team he should get 1st w/ Pujlos but 1B is always tough. Overbay(slumping), Thome, Casey-It's like SS was a few years ago in the AL.

Rolen is 1/10 the player that Mike Schmidt was. Stats can lie. If you needed a hit or HR to win a game you'd take Schmidt over Rolen anyday.

no wilson should be selected as an outfielder. he's played there more then 1st base and it's easier to fit him into a position that pick's about 8 guy's instead of 2 or 3.

Ok, but Piazza does not deserve it either, since he has pretty much been switched to another position.

Replace Wilson Johnny Estrada.

As for Pujols and Casey, if I can only choose one, I take Sean Casey. Casey has a lot higher batting average and more RBIs, and defensivly Casey has less errors (1) than Pujols (3). So, it has to be Casey.

And since we lose Pujols in the OF, put Wison there. His stats make him deserving.

brain cramp. I always see Wilson in the outfield. What was I thinking?
Piazza does have 26 games at Catcher and if the fans will probably vote him in. Wstrada deserves it too.

Casey over Pujlos? Riiiiight Pujlos might be the best all around player in baseball. I'd say he is. Casery is having a great 1st half but doesn't deserve to start even if it wasn't fan voting.

And Starving Dog, what are you smoking? Royce Clayton as an Allstar is a joke. The guy plays at Coors. He hits .343 at home and .267 on the road. He's easy to strike out and has no power.

pujols is a better player but so far casey has played better. that's the argument. we're not talking about who is better or who will get voted it but who is playing better as of now. even though pujols is leading the lead in homers.

I never said Rolen was a better player then Mike Schmidt. I said he was a better DEFENSIVE player then Mike Schmidt. Rolen is not nearly the hitter that Schmidt was, but Rolen has comperable to better range, is quicker on his feet, and has a fantastic arm.

You really have to watch Scott Rolen every day to appreciate how good he really is. Highlights on Sportcenter really do not do him justice. Web Gems can be done by pretty much anyone, but Rolen makes the most difficult plays look easy.

It has not stopped Burrell because Thome and Abreu get walked 100 times each year a piece. Thome has 27 walks (due to the fact that Burrell is on a tear) and Abreu has 38 walks, both in the top 20 in the league. Burrell has just had a much better year then Thome has, up until this point. All three are strong candidates for the All-Star game, though I would give the nod to Thome and Burrell.

I am not saying I would be disappointed if Overbay makes it ahead of Thome, because they have put up pretty comperable numbers in some respects. But I would lean toward Thome because of the HRs.

Yeah, that was my bad, because when I was looking, fantasy on Sportsline mentioned that Wilson was eligible at catcher and I just went with that - but I think Estrada deserves it over Piazza, because Piazza is a great hitter but a bad catcher.

Nope, Casey at this point in the season deserves the vote over Pujols. Casey leads Pujols in average, RBIs and based on errors, is playing better defense too. I love Pujols - I said that he deserved to be in in my first vote, but Casey is better and more deserving at this point in the season.

Royce Clayton as an All-Star is a joke. Every other NL Shortstop as an All-Star is a joke too. You got to choose one and none are all-stars. Clayton just has the better numbers.

I agree with voting Royce Clayton in to the All-Star game. If you look at splits, a lot of guys have disparities between what they hit at home and how they hit away from home. He could be hitting .500 at home and .165 away and i would still vote him in because the SS position in the NL is just trash.

i'd still pick izturis over clayton so far but there's really not much different. sure clayton is batting better at home but you wouldn't know if .265 was a terrible average on the road. it's not like he's batting .380 at home and .200 on the road. atleast he's putting up a respectable average on the road.

Just looking forward to Clemens and Piazza.

Guess I have to defend my team...

Mike Piazza's defense at catcher is nowhere near as poor as people make it out to be. For instance, he's certainly not any worse than say a certain NY Yankee behind the plate. His only problem is throwing out runners, and in a league where Juan Pierre or Carlos Beltran can match the stolen base totals of entire teams, I don't see a catchers arm as anywhere near as important as it once was.

Estrada should be the National League starting catcher. It is as simple as that. The All-Star game is primarily about offensive numbers, and I would say Estrada has been carrying his team for about 4 weeks now.

Estrada is hitting .358, with 4 HR, 18 Doubles and 37 RBIs.

Piazza is hitting .304 with 10 HR, 11 Doubles, and 22 RBIs.

I say that there is no contest.

Don't get me wrong, Estrada's having a great year, I'm just defending Piazza's defense. I constantly hear how horrible he is behind the plate, simply because people exagerate the importance of a catchers arm.

It's not just the importance of the catcher's arm, it's also about how he calls the game. Forget throwing out base stealers and the offensive stats - the catcher's importance comes in how he calls a game. more than any other position player, the catcher's defense is most important. The reason All-Star games have such high scores is because no one cares about defense - only about who hits the most homeruns.

Bingo, and I've yet to hear anyone question Piazza's abillity to call a solid game... in fact, his handling of pitching staffs has usually been cited as a positive.

I haven't heard kudos for him in that area like I have for Posoda, though. Since Girardi left, it's been all Posoda.

It's mostly comments from the pitchers, and people trying to make a case for him by comparing the team ERA with him at catcher as opposed to Jason Phillips or Vance Wilson. But even if those aren't reliable sources (and really, what is when rating a catchers play behind the plate?), I've never heard anyone question Mike Piazza's game calling in the first place, or his ability to block the plate, or snag pop-flys.

While on the other side of town, we have Jorge Posada who has had a career of being porus behind the plate. Something that isn't nearly as scrutinized as Piazza's arm, but something that's at least equally as important.

piazza can call a decent game but basically every major league catcher can. his arm effects the game way too much. i remember last year against the marlins in the first 2 games of the series he let over 10 stolen bases. they then sat him out in the final game of their series. if you say that doesn't effect the outcome of a game then you're fucking insane. he's hidious behind the plate. he has no athletic ability at all. look at him at first. it hurt's for me to actually witness how he handles it.

Essentially, for his arm to effect the game "way too much," the stolen base would have to be a serious threat on a daily basis. I just don't see it as that, especially when only a handful of teams actually try to run on a consistant basis.

On top of that, look back through all of the games Mike Piazza's caught, and try to establish the number of games his arm has actually cost the Mets a game. If it even gets up to a handful, I'd be surprised.

well losing that whole series against the marlins was mainly his fault. he constantly allowed runners to get into scoring position. i'm pretty sure that's not the only time he's let this occur. if i were the mets i'd trade him away in a second. he really need's to go dh in the al. it would even help his batting a lot. he'd be in way better condition throughout the season by not taking the beatings and grind on his body due to fielding.

Now come on, you do understand that just because he gives up a stolen base doesn't mean that any subsequent runs are his *fault*. With such speedsters already being *fast*, they could have scored on an XBH, thus scoring runs regardless of whether or not he threw them out. Let alone the fact that all those baserunners didn't cross the plate, and you begin to understand how ludicrous your point becomes.

Anyway, the point is moot because they lost that series by far more than the runs he gave up due to stolen bases. And remember, the difference between his CS% and the average catchers is something like 15%, it's so minute a thing to care about that it surprises me how vocal people are about it.

Anyway, I'd have traded Piazza last season had he not been hurt, this season wouldn't bother me either-though they probably wont so long as they remain in "contention"-because he's the only player on this team that can get us any sort of real prospects.

To continue on your DH bit, one can already see the benefits of having him out from behind the plate this season, let alone as a DH.

yeah you can score from 1st on an extra base hit but the majority of hits are singles. in that case you would need 2 singles to score a run. he alone manufactured around 25% more runs then marlins probably should have had. you said that not all the runners crossed the plate which is true but i mean it's basically impossible for all of them to score unless they batted 1.000 after the steals. all they had to do was hit around .300 in these situations and that would then give them nearly 2 runs a game extra. that can certainly change the outcome of any game.

Let's just leave it as, neither of us are sure exactly what's attributable to him, and what's not. Both of us can speculate what *may* have happened, but neither of us have access to the game log for that series (or do you?).

My main point from the beginning, though, is that the importance of a catchers arm is often exagerated because it's the most visible element of a catchers defense. I mean, even you have to agree that a 15% difference between the CS% of Mike Piazza and the league median doesn't exactly have an enormous effect on the outcome of most games.

yeah it usually doesn't effect a game but it could. i wouldn't want to chance it.