The NL East - Page 2

Well, Tom Glavine had issues hitting his spots and feeling out the ump, and payed dearly... by the time he had everything figured out, the game was just about over.

Nice to see Floyd come back with a solid effort, and that may have been the best Matsui's ever looked at short. As an aside, finding out that the guys wearing cleats as opposed to spikes just boggles my mind.

No, I'm trying to forget about the ______________ current involvement in the race. They've done it 13 times, and seeing them make a push is not reassuring. Before this season started, I picked the Florida Marlins, but the ______________ still scared the hell out of me because of who they are, and now they're getting too close for comfort in a division without a team willing to pull away.

It's good to see the Mets come out with a solid effort after that loss, but the Mets needed a split at the very minimum, and it's not looking good at the moment. Trachsel's ERA on the road is fucking ridiculous, and I have no faith in whomever starts the fourth game.

Great to see Abreu make the team, would have been a shame had he not.

Mets 10, Phillies 1

Steve Trachsel pitched a gem, while the Mets current infatuation with the long ball has yet to subside. With first place on the line tomorrow, this has got to be the most excited I've been as a Mets fan since their late push in '01.

Oh, and I just checked the updated standings, this division just got a lot closer than I thought it was.

Philadelphia Phillies - 44 Wins, 39 Losses, 0 Games Back
New York Mets - 43 Wins, 40 Losses, 1 Game Back
______________ - 43 Wins, 41 Losses, 1.5 Games Back
Florida Marlins - 43 Wins, 42 Losses, 2 Games Back

What happened to Brett Myers?

5-4 Phillies

See what I get for voting for Bobby Abreu? Damn you! Damn you to heck! You're only supposed to help my fantasy teams when you're not hurting my Mets.

Anywho, the Mets had multiple oppurtunities to break out against Millwood, they just couldn't get it done. Good game, here's to hoping the Mets don't tailspin into the All-Star break.

Don Baylor's the hitting coach for the Mets now, isn't he? He's always had a positive effect in that role - just don't let him become manager!

1.5 games back, we've still got Giles to return to the lineup, Ramirez to return to the rotation and the Joneses to return to form. This season is looking a lot better than I expected it to at this stage. Being realistic though no team has been outstanding though so far, that's the reason it is so close.

Whoa! An ______________ fan that cares? Seriously, are you guys like an endangered species or something?

What do you think about this series against the Braves this weekend?

I imagine you feel pretty good about it...

I am not feeling very confident coming into this weekend against Atlanta. The Phillies need to win 3 out of 4 before the All-Star break just to give the NL East some respectability. The Mets played well this weekend and I felt that they were the better team. They have better starting pitching in the 1-2-3 holes, their 1-2 batters get on base, and their bullpen pitched strong. What will bring down the Phillies will be their starting pitching...

that said, I heard a rumor that the Phillies were going to trade Millwood and Polanco to St. Louis for Morris and somebody else. Was I just hearding idle trade rumors or has anyone else heard anything?

Oh, and it was a good game yesterday. The Mets took 2 of 3 from the Phillies, so they should be pretty happy with their weekend.

Abreu stealing second pissed me off more then anything yesterday. He did that to Thome maybe 8 times last year that I counted and it probably cost them games. Good for him, being on the All-Star team and all, but I would trade him in a second. I wish they did this past winter.

Well, it's the halfway point, everyone picked their division champs before ths season started, anyone want to change their picks for the NL East?

1) I picked the Marlins because of their pitching, and without a healthy A.J. Burnett or Josh Beckett they've managed to stay in the race. So until I see another team really pick it up, I have no problem sticking with them.

2) If theres one team that scares me, it's the ______________, I've bumped them up from four because I'm starting to think that the Mets and the Phillies are what they are.

3) I'm a homer damnit, I'm picking the Mets 3, just because with Wright coming up, a healthy Jose Reyes and Cliff Floyd, and perhaps a call up or two (and a Benson over the horizon), I feel like there's more room for them to improve than the team I rate them ahead of.

4) I abhor the Phillies rotation, I had no faith in Kevin Millwood producing this season, and outside of Wolf there's just no one else on this rotation that scares me. Their bullpen is suddenly strong, it's just too bad they don't get the oppurtunities that they should. I figure if they hit a real bad stretch, they'll implode, because there were real expectations for this team as opposed to my Mets.

That was before this season where Abreu has really stepped up. Before this season, Abreu was a lazy bum who 'roided himself up to hit HR's that never came. In doing so he became slower and his arm is GONE. He once had a rifle in the outfield, and now he is bouncing balls all over the yard. PLUS, before this year he had real trouble with left handed pitching. He compensated for it by hitting like .340 against righties. This year he has turned it all around and is a better player then years past.

But he is not a good outfielder. He misjudges balls routinely, he has less range, and he tends not to go all out for balls that he probably could catch. This is, as opposed to Burrell, who is not the best outfielder, but WORKS REALLY HARD to make up for his lack speed and agility. He has learned how to play the outfield and is not a liability at all. Burrell does not have a really strong arm (its good, but not great), but has a bunch of OF assists each year because he is really accurate. Plus, Burrell always hauls ass after balls. He dives, he cuts balls off, and does a lot of stuff that the fans really appreciate. STuff that Abreu could easily do but does not care to do.

Burrell batted .206 last year and a lot of people wondered why Philly fans really did not get on him as badly as they would have got on maybe Abreu or Rollins or Rolen in the same situation. It is because Burrell works his ass off and the fans appreciate it. Abreu, on the other hand, does not.

This year has been different then the other 4 or 5 years when he would hit .300, knock in 80 or 90, but add little to the team offensively when it counted (he had "hollow" stats, like stated before). You can make a case that the new park is why his numbers have jumped up and not because he is a much better player then years past.

Heh, I just picked em fourth cause I wanted to give the Mets some love, flipping those two teams around doesn't make much of a difference to me. Now the ______________ #2, well, that's more out of respect than anything else. They win, they always win, and with nobody really seperating themselves from the pack, I'm more afraid of a team that knows what it takes to win than almost anybody else.

As for the most dangerous team, I still figure it's the Marlins, they've got the best pitching in the division and are fairly solid in every other aspect of the game. If they can solidify the bridge to Armando Benitez, they should take this division... though Benitez and Koch in September is a recipe for disaster if they don't pull away.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the Phillies record against the rest of the East will probably come back to bite them in the arse.

Now that I think about it, my rankings were more a gage of who I thought could take the division as opposed to the actual divisional outcome.

Who fucked up this thread?

Nobody is taking the East and the only team that looks like they can is the Phillies. The Fish losing Becket again hurts them. And some of the players they have are slumping. Mets don't have enough pitching. I think I've killed the Braves(like everyone else) every year but this year they look extra vulnerable.

first 8 games out of the box should say if the Phillies take the east. 4@NY, 2@ ATL, 2vs FLA. Then they get swept by the Cubs but everyone will in the 2nd half

I hear this a lot from the NY media as well, I don't know about the Braves (though I figure it's a similar situation), but the Mets were about a .500 team before the season started, so I don't see how being a .500 team at the All-Star break is playing above their heads.

They're in the race because the other teams in the division are underachieving.

Why the Mets have a shot: There starting pitching is really good and has been better then any team in the division. Matsui and Rayes are hitting.

Why the Mets do not have a shot: Bullpen is still not good enough. Teams that make the playoffs have stable and effective bullpens.

If I was a Mets fan I would be upset at the inconsistancy of the team. They go out and win 4 or 5 straight and then give back 3 games. But at least they have Glavine, Leither, and Trachsel pitching great.



Why the Marlins have a shot: Pavano, Burkett, and Willis are tough. They have experience.

Why the Marlins do not have a shot: They have not hit the ball as well as they should. Benitez.

The Marlins are playing to their potential. At least they have the Phillies 10 more times this year. They should win 9 of em.


Why the Phillies have a shot: Probably the best bullpen of the bunch. Small ballpark which the Phillies will hopefully use to their advantage.

Why the Phillies do not have a shot: Terrible starting pitching that will probably nullify the bullpen over the next 80 games. Terrible with RISP.

The Phillies will not win the division unless they can get some solid starts out of Myers and Millwood. Millwood always has one GOOD half. He needs to have his half now.



Why the Braves have a shot: Every other team in the division is not playing to their potential and the Braves are playing probably better then everyone else (minus the Mets, who are playing pretty well at times).

Why the Braves do not have a shot: Do not have the pitching to compete. A. Jones and C. Jones are not hitting, and you cannot expect Estrada and Fercal to carry a team.

Overacheiving and will probably continue on this path. I would rather have a team of overachievers then underachievers.


Prediction:
1) Mets (88 wins)
2) Phillies (87 wins)
3) Marlins (85 wins)
4) Braves (81 wins)
5) Montreal (13 wins)

Well wasn't that a funny game, Ty Wigginton gets away with a tailor made double play ball to drive in the winning run. I'd be happy if I didn't notice something all too familiar in the standings:

Atlanta
Philadelphia
Florida
NY Mets

No matter who people put #1 out of the East, they will still lose fairly easily to St. Louis.

Roberto Hernandez is awful. I did not understand why Wagner was not in the game at that spot. Or if not that spot, in the 8th when they put Madsen in the game. Madsen should have been the first pitcher after Wagner. Oh, well... Hernandez is bad.

Ty Wigginton is a good player. He does not do anything spectacular, but he is steady. I know you probably want more production out of the 3B spot, but you could do worse.


I was listening to Mike & the Mad Dog in March, and they were trying to figure out who was the scariest hitter in the division. They pretty much ranked Thome #1, Piazza #2 and Chipper and Lowell 3a and 3b. I know Chipper has not had a great year, and Lowell does not get the pub he deserves, but I would place Piazza #1. I do not know what other people think out there, but Piazza has the prettiest swing for a right handed hitter that I have ever seen. Also, he hits for average and power. Plus, he does not strike out as much as Thome. I know Thome will put up more in terms of power, but that is easily offset IMO by Piazza's ability to hit for average and make contact. Who in the division would you be most scared to face? I will go with the past couple years because Chipper is having an off year, but has put up huge numbers in the past. I go

1) Piazza
2) Thome
3) Chipper
4) Lowell
5) Abreu

Starting Pitchers? I do not know where to start. Glavine? Burkett? Beckett? Wolf? Pavano? Leiter? Trachsel (most underrated pitcher in baseball)? Just a start.

Ty Wigginton swings at EVERYTHING, ugh... and he's got about as much range at third as I do. Perhaps I'd be kinder if he wasn't holding David Wright back, you know, the guy that just hit two homeruns for our AAA affiliate yesterday.

I was surprised they went to Hernandez over Wagner, seeing as how our pen was tapped out and the Mets can't touch the guy, but it's not like you'll hear me complaining.

About the Cardinals, is their pitching for real? I mean, I've seen them get to the postseason before with their offense, it sure hasn't gotten them all that far with their mediocre staffs though.

I've been watching the Card's on EXTRA INNINGS a lot and their starting pitching is for real. Plus, they have a great defense behind them (and defense does not slump). Their bullpen may be a bit weak, but when the trading dealine comes around they will be buyers for middle relief. They may also try to get Benson, Johnson, or Hernandez to start.


That's how I feel about Paul Abbott in the starting rotation over Gavin Floyd, Ryan Madsen, or ME. The guy is an automatic loss and anyone would be better then him. I KINDA understand keeping Floyd down for the rest of the year, but it better be worth it because I cannot stand watching Paul Abbott be the worst starter in the majors.

About your list of hitters, I've been on the Cabrera bandwagon for a bit, but Lowell's better right this instant. Theres not much I'd change, and Larry's year has been one of the biggest surprises of this season (along with Ken Griffey Jr. playing in actual games).

As far as pitching goes, the two starters I'd fear-when healthy-are Beckett and Burnett. Tom Glavine's having a great season, as are Leiter, Pavano, Penny, and Wolf... but those two are the only guys I see with overpowering stuff.

Looks like a good outing (I didn't see the game), I keep hearing though that he really didn't have it. You know, control issues and the like. Sort of like how Wolf looked today, solid line, but questionable performance. What happened to his fastball? When'd he turn into a junk throwing lefty?

Wolf has always been a junk throwing lefty. His fastball usually tops at 91 at most, but 88 to 89 is more like it. He has thrown in the 92-93 range in la couple games I've seen, but I call that a radar malfunction. He used to just try to hit the corners and nibble. That was probably before 2 years ago. He just tried to hit the outside corner and occassionally throw his hook and change. He did not have much success, but now with his slow curve and maybe newfound confidence, he is throwing the ball on both halfs of the plate with control. His goal is the jam people inside and make people reach outside. His curveball is nice and induces lots of ground balls. He is really is a very good pitcher who has come to master changing speeds (something a pitcher with an average fastball must learn to do).

Is he a junk ball pitcher? Maybe not. He is a control pitcher.

But that's my point, least he was hitting 88-89 consistantly, he was hitting 83-85 consistantly on Saturday... I found that to be a bit odd...

I did not get to see the game on sat, so I assumed that much. The problem is why could the Mets not hit a guy throwing 84 MPH. I bet it was just a bad day for him.

Regression to the mean my friend. Piazza has been slumping for a while now (though everyone hopes that homer on Saturday meant something), Richard Hidalgo is finally cooling off, and Cliff Floyd can't hit lefties for his life this season (.203AVG .263OBP .319SLG .582OPS). Take them out of the lineup, and suddenly our offense becomes even more pedestrian than usual.

Of all top flight closers, John Smoltz does not scare me. Usually the Phils have a bit of success against him (well, as much success as you can have against a closer of his caliber).

The Braves are in first... God help us all.

Come on, Flyarz, Andy Reid calling a swing pass to Deuce on 3rd and 6 EVERY SINGLE TIME is pretty annoying. Andy Reid getting away from the run EVERY SINGLE BIG GAME is pretty annoying.

Allen Iverson throwing up bricks all day long, going 7 for 33 every game, is pretty annoying.

Keith Premieu getting a big deal and the Flyers just letting Recchi walk away (EVEN THOUGH RECCHI WOULD HAVE STAYED FOR A DISCOUNT) is pretty annoying... BOBBY CLARKE IN GENERAL is pretty annoying.

Philly fans know annoying, and sadly the Phillies this year are pretty damn annoying. I'm with you.

You all know that the Braves aren't going to run away with this division. This is going to be two plus months of nailbiting.

I'd be going insane if I was a Phils fan right now. It's so painfully obvious that Bowa is the problem with that team. They clearly have the most talent in the division, but will not win as long as Bowa remains the manager. It'll be a close race, but The Bowa will bring them down in the end. Mark my words.

I don't like Larry Bowa either, but their starting pitching has been the biggest issue.

I didn't catch the game, but theres no way it could have been as painful as yesterdays Met loss. Seeing Scott Erickson-of all people-come in and pitch 6 solid innings after two years of inactivity, only to watch the bullpen (Braden Looper included) and defense blow a three run lead.

Then tack on the fact that our old closer managed to shut the door while our current one couldn't... aaargh...

So is today a must win game for the Phillies? I know the Mets need to win in order for me to keep my sanity.

Larry Bowa is not at fault. Plus, their talent is not as good as people think. They strike out way too much. You all no my position on the Phil's lineup holes. 0They still may have an okay rotation even with Paul Abbott throwing BP every 5th day; there is no clear cut solid rotation in the division (maybe the Mets). Wolf and Milton have produced, and Myers and Millwood are hit and miss. The Mets have the best rotation right now, followed by the Marlins (maybe) and the Phils and Braves make up the end. The problem is, like I stated earlier, there is no pitching staff that should scare anyone in the division. There is no dominant starters. Beckett will be at some point, but he is injured and is not one now. The team that will win the division is the team with the best offense and most reliable bullpen. Right now, the Phillies probably have the best combination of offense and bullpen. If the Braves can pick up another reliever or if the Mets can stop giving the ball to Franco and pick up another reliever, then it may be different. The Marlins bullpen does not stack up. Padilla and Beckett may never get healthy this year, and who knows if the Braves with Jarret Wright are capable of winning ball games the rest of the season.

It is going to be a really BAD race, if you know what I mean. Neither the Mets, Phils, Marlins, or Braves are built to win the World Series. The Cards have no dominant starter and a good bullpen, but they do not shut anyone down. SF with Schmidt could do some damage, and the Cubs (if they even make the playoffs) are probably the best team built for the postseason when healthy. The Padres are also sleepers, since their rotation has been pretty good.

The NL in general this year is pretty sad.