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Gagne Blows It

post #1 of 18
7/6/04 at 12:39am
Thread Starter 
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1834786

But does anybody really care? Probably the most overrated streak in all of Baseball, hearing it compared to Joltin' Joe's 56 game hit streak just irritates the hell out of me.
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post #2 of 18
7/6/04 at 12:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoNkaholic
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1834786

But does anybody really care? Probably the most overrated streak in all of Baseball, hearing it compared to Joltin' Joe's 56 game hit streak just irritates the hell out of me.
It will be overrated if someone easily matches/beats it.

If it stands the test of time, then it deserves the hype its gotten.

Really, batters get 3-6 tries a game for a hit.

A pitcher, one mistake and the save can be blown.

It is quite remarkable to reach the numbers gagne did. Comparisons to dimaggio's streak maybe aren't valid, but it still is quite impressive.
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post #3 of 18
7/6/04 at 12:52am
Maybe it's overrated, but I'd have to say 84 straight is DAMN impressive; USA Today talked to Rollie Fingers and one of the other early closers about it and they somewhat downplayed it, since they used to pitch 2-3 innings at the end of a game instead of coming up and facing 3-4 batters at most if everything goes well. But neither was disparaging Gagne as a pitcher or his ability, just the hype over something that, while impressive, wasn't the greatest thing ever (I recall that Scott Podsednik reached base in something like 50 straight games and that got ZERO play nationally - again, good for that player but in the scheme of things it's far below DiMaggio's 56).
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post #4 of 18
7/6/04 at 1:11am
Seeing the Gagne strikezone against the Yankees I'm not that impressed. He got strikes Maddux didn't get in his dominant years.

But I'm glad it's over. Just gets tiring hearing about it. I think I'd still rather have the Eck close a game out.
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post #5 of 18
7/6/04 at 1:30am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern
It will be overrated if someone easily matches/beats it.

If it stands the test of time, then it deserves the hype its gotten.
Gagne is probably the most babied pitcher in all of baseball. He's only brought in to start the ninth, thus he rarely deals with inherited runners (the one time *I* saw him brought into the 8th was last season, a tie game he blew against the Giants). I don't respect the streak as much as others because the closer's job has become so specialized that they're SUPPOSED to succeed, good closers save something like 85% of their games.

And it's good of you (Chavez) to bring up the lack of media coverage following Scott Podsednik's streak, was there any pressure on Gagne when he approached Flash (Ahhh-Ah!) Gordon's immortal streak of 54?

Gagne's got some of the nastiest stuff in the game, but this streak has more to do with the way managers like Tony La Russa have compartmentalized the role of the reliever than anything else.
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post #6 of 18
7/6/04 at 5:59pm
He beat the closed guy by 30 games, come on now. Overrated? Not even close. This was an amzing feat. If it's so dammned easy, how come nobody else can seem to do it anywhere as close to that?
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post #7 of 18
7/6/04 at 8:09pm
Thread Starter 
Because a lot of closers get put in higher leverage situations, face more inherited runners, and are actually treated like the ace in the pen that they're supposed to be.

To get an idea of what I'm talking about, Mariano Rivera had to deal with 35 inherited runners in 2003, in the two and a half years Eric Gagne's been a closer, he's had to deal with a grand total of 44.
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post #8 of 18
7/7/04 at 12:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoNkaholic
Because a lot of closers get put in higher leverage situations, face more inherited runners, and are actually treated like the ace in the pen that they're supposed to be.

To get an idea of what I'm talking about, Mariano Rivera had to deal with 35 inherited runners in 2003, in the two and a half years Eric Gagne's been a closer, he's had to deal with a grand total of 44
But that's not really Gagne's fault - he's been perfect at what's been asked of him for 2 1/2 years; heck, I can barely get out of bed without fucking up, though nobody's keeping stats on me (I hope not, at least).


As for LaRussa, he's an overrated puke.
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post #9 of 18
7/7/04 at 1:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavez
But that's not really Gagne's fault - he's been perfect at what's been asked of him for 2 1/2 years
Hank Blalock.

I don't care if it was an exhibition game and did not count towards stats.

Hank Joe Blalock proved that Gagne was not invincible long before this loss.
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post #10 of 18
7/7/04 at 2:23am
streaks arent about being invincible, its about a high degree of skill being combined with a high degree of luck.

luck plays at least a 50% role in almost any of the big streaks in any sport.
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post #11 of 18
7/7/04 at 12:32pm
Whats with all the Gagne hate now that it's over? Mad because he's NOT on your team?? I detect a hint of jealousy out there.

The man is even hailed by the best closers in the game as the GOD of closers. Get over yourselfs and recoginize that man did something special.

If saves were THAT easy then we wouldn't have so many guys who suck at getting them, and they wouldn't be trading for them come crunch time. AND Marion Rivera would be hailed as one of the major reasons the Yanks have so many rings.
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post #12 of 18
7/7/04 at 1:31pm
Thread Starter 
I've neither derided Gagne, nor closers, I've merely stated that the streak is overrated due to the recent changes in the usage of relievers. If you can't see the difference between me saying the streak is "easy" and saying that the streak shouldn't be compared to DiMaggio's 56 game hit streak, well then, I guess theres really no point in continuing this discussion.
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post #13 of 18
7/7/04 at 2:47pm
DiMaggio's 56 game hit streak


Were you there to witness DiMaggio's hit streak? Because if you were I bet you would of berated him also.. You woulda bitched that the pitching he faced was weak and that he was protected where he batted in the line-up. I swear nobody is ever fucking happy with anything that happens in sports today.
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post #14 of 18
7/7/04 at 2:58pm
Thread Starter 
The hell are you going on about now? Because I don't agree with you, suddenly I ignore all of todays accomplishments? Seriously, just let it go.
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post #15 of 18
7/7/04 at 6:19pm
Nah, I don't have any hatred for Gagne. He did a pretty special thing, a really nice (almost) streak. Of course, like I said, it does not mean anything to me because he blew a save last year to give the AL home field in the World Series. Of course *that didn't count*

But when Hank Blalock went yard on Gagne, it's still a blown save, I don't care if it isn't an "official game"
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post #16 of 18
7/7/04 at 7:25pm
Blalock's shot doesn't count becuase it wasn't an official game. The mindset is completely different. If Gane blew a spring training save is his streak invalidated? A better argument to break Gagne down would be to note that he has lost a number of games that were tied. All in all it's a a fairly amazing streak and there is no doubt that he is the most valuable closer in the game today. There are ameliorating factors as always. How many times did Gane pitch part of the eighth? My guess is no too many. How much was he helped by the rest of the outstanding Dodger pitching staff of the last few years? Quite a lot. Chavez Ravine is an excellent pitcher's park. I'd take Gane on my team in a heartbeat.
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post #17 of 18
7/8/04 at 3:17pm
No it's just how some people like to invalidate anything anyone does these days. It's stupid.
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post #18 of 18
7/8/04 at 5:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke
Blalock's shot doesn't count becuase it wasn't an official game.
I agree Gagne's a hell of a pitcher. But a blown save is a blown save. It was not an official game but it was still a home run given up causing a loss - unofficial or not, a blown save occured in the middle of the "streak"
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