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Doom 3

post #1 of 192
Thread Starter 
http://pc.ign.com/articles/529/529830p1.html

That's everything IGN PC knows.

And this has now surfaced:

http://www.andresbecerra.com/ShackUp...GSeptCover.jpg

PC Gamer reviewed it, gave it a 94.

Now, things are still a little weird...no official statements as of yet, just all these different signs pointing to the August 3rd or 4th release date. Also, one would assume that if PC Gamer reviewed it, it's been gold for a while. It is possible they reviewed a pre-release version, as many game rags have been known to do.

If we don't hear anything official within the next week...who knows.
post #2 of 192
This and Half-Life 2 are gonna eat up so much of my time if they live up to expectations. I didn't work last semester, but went back last week to earn some cash for some more memory and a video card(hell, maybe even squeeze in a new sound card by the time HL2 rolls around) cause of these games.

The only thing I'm really worried about with either game is the length. The last PC game I bought was Max Payne 2, which was all kinds of awesome...for the weekend it took to beat it.
post #3 of 192
The actual length of Half Life 2 is hardly relivant. No doubt it'll have a damn fine single player, and I look forward to it a great deal, but the mod possibilities for Source are where its REALLY at.

There was a thread on the forum of I think halflife2.net (favorites got erased recently) where people would send questions to the guys at Valve about the game, and post the replies they got. Among these were an absolute shitload of exciting mod ideas that used the Source engines physics, materials, remote camera system, AI, and all kinds of other shit in some pretty cool ways.

The replay value of HL2 will be damn near endless.

Though I still just want my god damn Team Fortress 2 already.

- Fate
post #4 of 192
sigh, if this was fall 2003 I might be more excited for this game (and also Half Life 2 for that matter). As I have aged in my gaming life, perenially delayed games are really just becoming more annoying than exciting to me. Everything that excited me for half life 2 last year, has been either ripped off or implemented by faster produced games. Doom 3, never really excited me too much besides the graphical power behind it, and I know I don't have the rig to get the most visual joy out of it, nor do I care to upgrade for it.

Granted, I am sure Half Life 2 will be a masterpiece, and a modders paradise. but doom 3 just seems like it will be a flash in the pan that everyone will automatically love, but it doesn't look to bring anything innovative to the marketplace, which is really what it takes to impress me now. I take the Nintendo approach and say graphics are graphics and the visual leaps that games are capable of in the next few years arent enough to warrant consumers laying down 40-50 bucks 2-3 times a month. At least HL2 seems to have some innovation behind it, but Doom 3 seems to have none.
post #5 of 192
I agree about the release getting bumped it just gets more and more annoying. Thankfully with Halo 2 I know Bungie will deliver which makes all the difference in the world.
post #6 of 192
Thread Starter 
http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/bla...20040714#50067

Gold!

August 5th is the official release date.
post #7 of 192
Kyle beat me to it. Doom 3 gold! Sweet.

Now watch, the game will last seven hours and be mediocre.

Well, I'll keep my fingers crossed in any case.

I wonder if there's any hope for a demo?
post #8 of 192
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer
I wonder if there's any hope for a demo?
Yes, the Shareware version will contain the entire first third of the game.

No, not really. Since it's done, and theres 3 weeks to release, its possible they could crank out a demo by then, but I haven't heard anything.

Here's PC Gamer's review:

DOOM 3

THE WORLD-EXCLUSIVE FIRST REVIEW

You've waited years. Now the wait is over. PC Gamer was the only publication in the world to review Doom 3 a split-second after id declared it "Done." We thought we were ready...

Turn out the lights. Get the surround-sound speakers in place. And say goodbye to sanity for the next 20-odd hours. The guys at id Software are famous for delivering a game "when it's done" - and we're here to tell you that Doom 3 is not only done, it's mind-blowing.

X The game opens up with your arrival at Mars Research Facility of the massive United Aerospace Corporation. It's the year 2145, and you're a Marine newly assigned to the facility's security detail. For the first 15 minutes,you're not even issued a weapon - the action unfolds in a pace reminiscent of the opening of Half-Life, as you get oriented around the security building and watch some video primers on your new job and new home. In this opening act, you're familiarized with your Personal Digital Assistant, wich will be your invaluable interface throughtout the rest of the game. Using this handy gadget, you can download info from other people's PDAs as you come across them, adding codes, access keys, and emails that contain crucial information you'll need to progress through the 28 maps to follow. Here's what you really spen those first 15 minutes doing: gawking. This is your chance to absorb the full shock of magnificant graphics engine put to stunning use. The enviroments are huge-scale and packed with detail. The base is a convincing Mars Station - less a far-future design than a depressingly postmodern corporate park. It feels lived-in, too - from the skin mags scattered on the kitchenette tables to the nastiest in the public rest-room toilet bowls.

But no sooner do you get oriented with your gear - and with the very cool physics model that lets you rearrange just about any object in the place - then all hell breaks loose. Literally.

The base is hammered by a shockwave of satanic force, and immediatly discover that almost evryone around you has turned into a flesh eating zombie - with a mindless devotion to snacking on you. Worse yet, the base has been invaded by a horde of nightmarish demons. Cut off from your fellow Marines (and stalked by some of their well armed zombie versions!), you've got only a comm link with your still human Sarge to steer you to safety

DOOM AND THEN SOME

For those expecting a "classic" run and gun Doom gameplay, the biggest surprise may be just how substanial this game is. If you try to blaze through any of these 28 missions you WILL be humiliated. Instead the only route to access is a slow and steady one, sticking to shadows, searching every nook and crany for health, ammo, and access keys, and generally advancing as methodicaly as you can.

You've also got to figure out whats happening. As you make your way through the different levels of the base, the pilot is revealed via the PDAs you pick up, and in breif conversations with the few NPCs who werent "turned" by the satanic attack. To make your way through the inevitably sealed-off access doors between levels, you'll have to read through email that progressively reveals a conspiracy of apocalypse proportions - the nefarious scheme of phsycotic Dr. Betruger, UACs cheif scientist, who's perverted a teleportion to open up a portal into hell-like demension. (Oh and if you didnt notice Dr. betruger is also keen on transporting his hellion army to earth.)

Gear is an absolute premium. All the old Doom weapons are back, but preciously rationed, and with an ever windling supply of ammo for each. The shotgun is your basic in close sledge hammer, while the assault rifle is your best down hallway exchanges with armed zombie marines. The chaingun provides a heavy punch for those hectic occasions when you need to yell "LETS ROCKKKK!" The plasma rifle was my personal fav, dealin streams of fiery blue death, although it runs out of ammo quickly. The rocket launcher scores devastating hits at a distance, while the stock pistol is suitable for minor enemies and desperate last stands. (And as for the BFG 9000 - you'll have to wait a bit before you get to arm it, but the wait is well worth it.)

But theres no need to worry that Doom 3 is as slow as spliner cell - hardly a minute goes by without a furious exchange of hostiles with some manner demonic beastie, imps, Hellknights, and Archviles are all back to shock and awe you with viscerally jarring attacks, and the endless stream of zombies and scuttling nasties gives you plenty to chew on (and chew up). The gallery of grotesquerie is the product of almost limitless imagination for horors - spiders that make your flesh crawl, infant "cherubs" mutated with fly wings, and other unamable terrors that blight the corridors of the possessed base

TO LAUNCH A THOUSAND PC PURCHASES

Early in the game, you're tasked with sprinting outside the mars Facility ( with rapidly depleting air canisters) in search of the next airlock. It was here that i really started to notice what I was seeing was graphics superiorty that not even current hot tech showcases like Far Cry could match. Dust blew around the martian surface and the dull brown/red hue of the sand and the twisted metal of shredded structures all semed so perfectly plausible.

Each girder, door, and window adds tangible substance to each scene, and even th \e effect of your flashlight shinging into a drakened corner looks ridiculosly real - as the light floods through a room , swinging back andforth, shadows are cast perfectly; dust particles gently drift into the cone of the flash light , eerily visible. And these are just the basics of the enviroment: just wait until you enter the depths of hell, and dive into some of the later mass melees,\. Doom 3, with all due awareness of hyperbole, is the best looking game you've ever seen.

Not surprising you'll need a monster system to render these monsters in all their intracetly textured glory. But the ability to play Doom 3 with all its visual magic maxed out is really a good excuse to trade up. A P4 3GHzwith a Georce 5950- class card will see u through okay. One of our test systems had a geforce 6800 ultra and ran flawlessly at 1024x 768 with high detail. (A higher level of quality and resolution is available , but the PC to run it well isnt)nning with a geforce4 MX card and 512 Mb RAM, the texture detail was great, although the game was choppier in spots.

Bottom line: If Far Cry didnt convince you, then Doom 3 should - the time to upgrade to a next generation 3D chip , or even an all new rig, is now.

SOUND, FURY...AND SCARES

While I was expecting amazing graphics, it was the sound effects and sound design that had me reeling. Footsteps echo spookily down halls; monsters issue bloodcurling shrieks; every hallway has an audible drip of menace and dread. Doom 3 is the reason to own surround sound speakers. The collective impact of sound design on the whole expierience cant be overstated, adding to the urge to switch out ll th lights, close the curtains, crank up the voulume, and let yourself be scared s***less.

And you will be jolted right out of your seat. I'm not going to spoil any of the socks here, but there were at least four occasions where i lunged back in y chair. Lead designer Tim wiltis is inside your head like a phycologist - and just when hes let you think you can lower your guard, he sticks the psychic shiv right into your nervous system.

Even when the scares arent heart stopping , theres a constant, simmering anxiety at each and every step. You basically subjecting yourself to a 20 hour cariac episode. At times, death brought sweet, momentery respite from the fear drenched mayhem.

The zombie plagued space station is creepy enough , but about mid way through the game you make a teleporteraided detour to hell. The whole feel of the game changes utterly - if you thought you were in desperate straits before, you now find yourself in a balls shriveling nightmare netherworld. (With no weapons!)

It's all leading up to a knees knocking climatic spelunk into the archealogical ruins beneath mars base where you enter a final showdown against evildoers amid the remnants of a fallen martian civilization. As the massive fright lifter descends so agonizingly slowly into the darkness, you may find yourself as I did, cursing out loud at the grim hold this game has on you.

Does Doom 3 have any missteps maybe just one; its attemps at humor feel way out of place. there are a few lame running gagas: PDA spam and an uber-nerdy string of emails between members of a roleplaying club. (The spam gag actually becomes a puzzle that requires you jump out of the game and use you web browser to find a code. Huh?) In one appalling instance, you even even become privy in a tounge-in-cheek directive by arcvillian Dr. Betruger, advising hellions on the proper way to prepare virgin sacrifices. These limp jokes server only to dump me out of the games carefully calibrated dread machine.

But no matter: The rest is all dynamite. Doom 3 took me 23 hours to complete on the medium difficulty setting. (For all those who rumored that the game would be over in a few hours- you couldnt be more wrong.) And for those 23 hours, you will never expirience a dull moment. Or even a less than mesmerizing one. Doom 3 is a masterpiece of art form - staying true to the frantic legacy of the Doom series, while ambitiously reaching new hieghts and bashing down the doors of the next generation of PC shooter. The bar is raised. Lets see someone else climb over it- Dan Morris
post #9 of 192
Thread Starter 
Sigh...well, I guess Tool never ended up doing a song for the game. I'm not sure if theres any remnants of Trent Reznor's involvement either.
post #10 of 192
Hehe, I'm contemplating taking the 5th off for a National Doom Day =D
post #11 of 192
CNN Money (?) is reporting that there will NOT be a dvd version of the game, and that multiplayer is limited to four people.
post #12 of 192
And yes, I get all my gaming news from CNN Money.
post #13 of 192
Good gravity, did you type out that review by hand?? Or did it come with all the spelling errors?
post #14 of 192
id CEO Todd Hollenshead has announced Doom 3 is gold, set to be out for retailers on August 3 as we reported first and at all stores by August 5, though some earlier. Enjoy!


Yes, this is the official word that DOOM 3 has been code released and has been approved for manufacturing! It won't be long now until the anticipation ends and the PH34R begins ;-) We literally just hung up with Activision and have confirmed that our latest release candidate has been mutually approved and is finally GOLD. Thanks to everyone for their patience (yeah right! =) and for everyone at id, Activision and our numerous partners for helping us create what I believe is absolutely the best game we have ever made.
So, the next question is release dates. Retailers in the States will be allowed to pick up games starting at 12:01 AM on August 3rd. The official street date is actually August 5th in the U.S.A., but some of your favorite stores will probably have it early for those of you who have to have it first. Check with your local retailer for that information.

Internationally, the game will take a few more days to make it to the store shelves. The UK will probably get it first, on or about August 6th. Everywhere else will probably be Friday, August 13th (que Twilight Zone Theme) or close to that date, with just a few exceptions (e.g. Russia and Poland). This isn't because we don't have love for you folks outside the U.S., but the localization and manufacturing process takes a bit longer outside the U.S. where we will have JVC run 24/7 to get the units built. I guess the European manufacturers prefer to give their employees nights and weekends off. Go figure!

The champagne is flowing here at id and smiles abound! I'll update again with some DOOM 3 preparation tips (not what hardware to buy - you'll have to wait for a programmer for that sort of thing). In the meantime, I want to see those "DOOM 3 GOLD!!!" threads set new records for swamping message board servers, destroying productivity, and post counts ;-)

Recapping today's headlines....DOOM 3 GOLD!!!
post #15 of 192
better order those parts from newegg real soon then.
post #16 of 192
ya, the multiplayer is only 4 players.
post #17 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Davis
Good gravity, did you type out that review by hand?? Or did it come with all the spelling errors?
that's what happens when Rob Smith leaves to take over OXM.
post #18 of 192
Computer Gaming World's preview of Doom 3

Quotes to look for in the preview:

"The unnamed Jurassic demon is so big it can't be seen in its entirety in one screen. While Scott can't go into detail on what it is, he assures me that this isn't the final boss.

"Scott describes the berserker mode as the sci-fi drug "red-eye" that was seen in an episode of Cowboy Bebop. As you slap the berserker helmet on, the world goes crimson; you run uncontrollably at a full sprint, and you're only able to punch or club someone with your flashlight for ridiculous amounts of damage. And all the while, you're maniacally screaming."

"Back in the game, a stray shot at a window suddenly breaches the base's atmosphere. Oxygen is getting sucked out to the Martian surface. You'll die from suffocation if you're not careful. . ."

_________

*head explodes*
post #19 of 192
Thread Starter 
Heh, I cut and pasted the review from another forum.

And it's always been known the multiplayer was 4 players. They wanted to keep it intimate and claustrophobic, and a seperate entity from Quake.

I believe at Quakecon of August 2003 they had the deathamtch playable, and theres impressions of it at every game site.

Also, if anyone is curious about the Xbox version, its coming a few months later, and has co-op. No co-op on the PC version because of programming difficulties, yadayadayada.
post #20 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Reese
Also, if anyone is curious about the Xbox version, its coming a few months later, and has co-op.
I hate non-specific release dates. Better not be too close to Nov 9...
post #21 of 192
Can't wait, just hope my PC can run it smoothly.

Hell, I ran that leak of it that came out more than a year ago....
post #22 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Reese
Heh, I cut and pasted the review from another forum.

And it's always been known the multiplayer was 4 players. They wanted to keep it intimate and claustrophobic, and a seperate entity from Quake.
And this is why Doom 3 will be nice and all (4 player DM in Doom 2 was frequently amazing), but Quake 4 promises to be amazing.
post #23 of 192
About bloody time. I'll be needing a new pc. And a couple of days off work. Brilliant.
post #24 of 192
Thread Starter 
Holy Sheepshit.

Go to www.doom3.com , go to Media, download the clip of the theme song.

Sounds like Tool to me.

It sounds like the song Lateralus at a slightly different tempo, but oh well. Can't wait to blare it from my speakers on August 5th.
post #25 of 192
Thread Starter 
http://www.3dgamers.com/dl/games/doo...m3_g4.avi.html

http://www.gengamers.com/doom3g_4.avi

Great little movie clip. First time I've ever seen the chaingun and plasma rifle in action.

Too bad they were using a shitty computer to show it off...massive framerate drops.

I suppose now is the time to upgrade. I've got an Athlon 2200, Radeon 9700 Pro, and 512 ram. I'll just get more RAM first, see how that suits me, then maybe do the processor.
post #26 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Reese
Holy Sheepshit.

Go to www.doom3.com , go to Media, download the clip of the theme song.

Sounds like Tool to me.

It sounds like the song Lateralus at a slightly different tempo, but oh well. Can't wait to blare it from my speakers on August 5th.
Nice clip. Even a hint of new music from them rehashed or not gets me really excited.

I really wasn't hyped for Doom3 at all (aside from hearing Tool was doing a track for it). Some comments Carmack made about the gameplay lead me to believe it was going to be lacking. However the PC Gamer review and other initial impressions are peeking my interest and causing me to buy into the hype.
post #27 of 192
Ohh, can't wait to get my hands on this thing. It's gonna be like three of the longest weeks in my life =(
post #28 of 192
that's assuming you manage to dodge that falling jet engine Biff; if that doesn't get you - the old man at the gas station will.
post #29 of 192
Thread Starter 
OK I might have been full of shit. http://doom3.planet-multiplayer.de/download.php?list.11

It sounds a bit less like Tool. Either way, there was the pre-chorus part from Third Eye borrowed as well. If it wasn't them that performed it, the whole composition is cut and pasted from various Tool songs anyways.
post #30 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Reese
OK I might have been full of shit. http://doom3.planet-multiplayer.de/download.php?list.11

It sounds a bit less like Tool. Either way, there was the pre-chorus part from Third Eye borrowed as well. If it wasn't them that performed it, the whole composition is cut and pasted from various Tool songs anyways.
I am pretty sure its Tool. I remember it being reported on Toolshed.down.net that the band sans Maynard was recording a track for Doom 3. Sounds a HELL of lot like Tool jamming to me. If not, Kudos to some seriously talented rip off artist seeing as it t apes their style to a tee.

Regardless I like the track, it'd be a throway on album and really just sounds like a grittier Lateralus, but as a download I can't complain.
post #31 of 192
Thread Starter 
Yeah, apparently the track was done by this guy Tweaker aka Chris Vrenna, former NIN drummer. It is apparent from listening to the track that this dude really, really, really likes Tool.

As far as the actual GAME goes...various retailers are charging 54.99 for Doom 3 it seems. You also get some little figurine thing when you preorder. Why 54.99? Does it seem to make perfect business sense to them to charge extra for what may be the biggest seller of the year? I don't get it.

FUCK pre-ordering I say. I'm heading to the place that gets it first, I don't want to be locked into a pre-order at a place that gets it late.
post #32 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Reese
FUCK pre-ordering I say. I'm heading to the place that gets it first, I don't want to be locked into a pre-order at a place that gets it late.
Amen, brotha!
post #33 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Reese
I suppose now is the time to upgrade. I've got an Athlon 2200, Radeon 9700 Pro, and 512 ram. I'll just get more RAM first, see how that suits me, then maybe do the processor.
Get a processor too, not much coin for another AMD chip.
post #34 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by billylove
Get a processor too, not much coin for another AMD chip.
Might need a new motherboard too, depending on the max processor the board allows.
post #35 of 192
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by L7 Productions
Might need a new motherboard too, depending on the max processor the board allows.
She be an Epox, I think I can go to any Socket A AMD processor. I'm looking at something around the Barton 3200s, but is that really enough performance gained to shell out another 150-180 for?
post #36 of 192
That rig should be able to run it, Maus, with some of the bells and whistles turned down. 800 x 600 will probably be your best bet.

My new ATI X800 Pro video card is on its way as we speak. Now all I need is another 512 of ram and I'll be reasonably happy.
post #37 of 192
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer
That rig should be able to run it, Maus, with some of the bells and whistles turned down. 800 x 600 will probably be your best bet.

My new ATI X800 Pro video card is on its way as we speak. Now all I need is another 512 of ram and I'll be reasonably happy.
How much you pay for the x800?

Maus, that geforce 4 needs to go. It'll run it decently, and be able to operate all the advanced effects, but not too fast. Grab a 9800 XT for $210-230, or wait for cheaper x800s. I'm sure theres nVidia options to consider also, but I'm a bit biased.
post #38 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Reese
Maus, that geforce 4 needs to go. It'll run it decently, and be able to operate all the advanced effects, but not too fast. Grab a 9800 XT for $210-230, or wait for cheaper x800s. I'm sure theres nVidia options to consider also, but I'm a bit biased.
Geforce 4 is only DirectX8-comaptible and won't be able to use DX9-features. It'll probably run ok, especially since Nvidia is supposed to be a lot faster than ATI in doom 3... or is that only the DX9-generation?
post #39 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Reese
How much you pay for the x800?
It's from Gigabyte, got it for $330, free shipping, comes packed with two games (not great ones) and an s-video cable that's twenty bucks extra on ATI's site.
post #40 of 192
Thread Starter 
12 days now...whoa baby.

It looks like the demo is definitely coming after release. I don't think they've even started on it yet, according to the interview up at IGN.

http://pc.ign.com/articles/532/532505p1.html
post #41 of 192
Did anyone watch the G4 show Icons last night? They had id on there talking about D3, and a good deal more footage from the game. I'm sure if they don't rerun the hell out of it (hrmm, with the game about to be released? NYAHH), it'll appear on the 'net shortly.
post #42 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by biff
Did anyone watch the G4 show Icons last night? They had id on there talking about D3, and a good deal more footage from the game. I'm sure if they don't rerun the hell out of it (hrmm, with the game about to be released? NYAHH), it'll appear on the 'net shortly.
Ooooh yea!
post #43 of 192
I just want a release date for the Xbox version, damn it.
post #44 of 192
HardOCP has the higher-end benchmarks up. Summary for some of you lazy bastards :

The 6800 cards are the sweet spot for running this in high quality and very high resolution (1600x1200), substantially outperforming the x800s. In fact, the difference between the 6800s and the x800 Pro at these settings is playable/unplayable. (The x800 XT fares a lot better.) At 1024x768 and high quality they all clock 60-70 FPS.

9800XT/5950s clocked 45-50 FPS at 1024x768 and medium detail. These cards were the lowest tested for the benchmark.

Anti-aliasing makes the biggest impact on the framerates.

The timedemo is less forgiving than the actual game.
post #45 of 192
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slater
I just want a release date for the Xbox version, damn it.
You poor, poor man.

They said MAYBE by the end of the year. So if not, probably January or February. Why are you fiending the Xbox version so much? Co-op seems pretty sweet, but this game is all about the graphics.
post #46 of 192
Because I refuse to play first person shooters on a PC. Because I suck at them without a controller. And because my home computer can barely run Monkey Island III without wheezing.

So, yeah, it's Xbox for me.
post #47 of 192
I concur 100%.
post #48 of 192
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slater
Because I refuse to play first person shooters on a PC. Because I suck at them without a controller. And because my home computer can barely run Monkey Island III without wheezing.

So, yeah, it's Xbox for me.
Well, that makes sense I guess. I just had a flashback to 2000 when I bought Quake 3 for my Dreamcast, heh.

When you get a new computer someday, be sure to look in to the magical experience that is FPS games using a mouse. Then we'll probably see a thread here about how you just can't stop playing Counter Strike.
post #49 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slater
Because I refuse to play first person shooters on a PC. Because I suck at them without a controller. And because my home computer can barely run Monkey Island III without wheezing.

So, yeah, it's Xbox for me.
I could mock you for this, but I won't. Instead my true intention is to ask... HOW? If I play a console shooter I always get reemed by the first baddie I see. Those weird "analog" things just freak me out, how the hell do you look around with those? Golden Eye is the only console shooter I can maneuver properly in, I've tried a few on PS2 and I could not adjust to it.

I am happy X-Box is getting a proper version though. As PC bias as I may be its great that a console system exists now that can run good PC games these days as opposed to getting one of 3,000 versions of Theme Park 4 years after its release. Let's just hope the translation went smoothly.
post #50 of 192
does doom 3 use pixel shader 3? I read over at toms earlier that crytech patched Far Cry to use Pixel Shader 3, supported by the 6800's, and the improvements - for the most part - were good. Kind of a slap in the face to ATI...or something.

on a side note I have 100% respect to anyone who can play a fps with any console controller. I too suck when my mouse is taken away from me.
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