Predator 2 - why the hate? - Page 2

Good news for those of us who like the film, from www.dvdanswers.com:

And to think I almost finally picked up the existing release last night for $9.99 minus 12%.

Well hang on, because surely the Aliens are actually more powerful and dangerous than Predators, and should be able to win in a one-on-one fight? In AvP, we see the arena is constructed so that the Predators remove their cannons from the shelf thing, which then opens the cages. The humans screw all that up, leaving the Predators to fight without their guns. I do agree that the Predators looked much worse than in 1 and 2 (far too bulky in the shoulders). In fact, both sides do not come across too well in this film, which perhaps was always going to happen with a versus movie.

Says who? The Predators have always been touted as extremely badass warriors. Why shouldn't they be able to hold their own against xenomorphs when certain human beings always seem to that in every Alien movie? They should at least be "smarter" warriors than the xenomorphs. Whilst they may have a collective hive-like consciousness do not posess anything in the way of weapons technologies and even without the shoulder canons the Predators had a wide array of deadly goodies at their disposal.

The scene in question was just another example of Paul Anderson's cheesey style of quick kill/death editing. An annoying movie cliche that he seems to employ in every film that he does.

Predator 2, I don't hate.

I just want to go on record as saying I love Predator 2, and don't know how it could've been directed by Stephen Hopkins seeing as I generally have despised all his other films. As far as AVP, goes, get over it, everybody knew it would suck and it did, no big surprise, I would have rather watched a film about the association of volleyball professionals.

Well, because they're Aliens, man. They're fricking monsters, killing machines with acid for blood. The Predators are just humanoid hunters with neat gadgets. From the movies we've seen, an Alien should be a lot more fearsome than a Predator, and the Predators should have gained their advantage not by matching physical strength, but only by having very powerful weapons. Instead, Anderson's inflated the Predators in order to try and match them up. One of his big mistakes, imho.

(and your human crack doesn't make sense, since pretty much every human in every (real) Alien film has died.)

Dude you and I agree totally. That is precisely what I am trying to say.

By real Alien movies I assume you mean the first 3. And yes pretty much every human died in those movies but the ones who survived (Ripley, Newt, Hicks) did so more by using ingenuity like Kevin Peter Hall's Predator from the original. At least he was able to rack up a decent body count before Ah-nuld terminated him.

After watching AvP, it really made me appreciate and sorely miss the late great Kevin Peter Hall.

Me too. You need actors who are tall, rather than tall people who can act. The lead Predator actor did what he could, but I think is let down by story and effects.

Watching AVP made me appreciate and sorely miss rectal exams.

But KPH was a great guy. Not just in PREDATOR, but in HARRY AND THE HENDERSONS too.

Bwahahah.. for real.

But regarding Kevin Peter Hall, the Predator SE docu really made me appreciate his contribution. The way he moved and reacted really did add to the stealthy hunter mystique of the Predator. His performance was sorely missed in those dumbass WWE Predators of AVP.

I greatly enjoy P2, if the sequel had Arnie in the jungle again, or even the Predator in the jungle again, everyone would be bitching about the lack of creativity. P2 went in a new direction, a very logical one I feel, and the fact that Dutch informed the US military about his experiences in the jungle is a nice tie in to the original without being beholden to it. I think the whole movie, for the most part follows its own internal logic and respects the original's logic. Watch both back to back and I feel you get a better appreciation of both sides of the equation(human and predator). Just had to throw in my love for P2

This thread made me buy P2, and watch it last night. I like it, but agree with those who don't rate it as highly as the first film.

A lot of it feels very familiar, several scenes are virtual remakes of scenes from the original, while others expand concepts, but only slightly. Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever had both films running side-by-side? I'd be curious to see how close the dupe events/scenes/character pieces are; for example the initial action scenes, the first reveal of the skinned corpses, the short 'funeral' scenes (for Blane and Benny respectively), the main characters' various realisations, the supernatural 'explanations' (Anna and King Willie) deaths of key characters, that sort of thing.

It's just the little things in P2 that bugged me - why did the Predator continue to see in heat vision after Harrigan removed its helmet when the previous film made clear it was a function of said helmet? Why did the Predator start up its self-destruct just because it was hanging from a roof? Come on!

And the actual facial effects for the creature itself are really bad. If you compare the brilliantly orchestrated and realistic movements of the jaws and mandibles from P1 to the pathetic rubber mask/bits of string movements of the sequel (someone make an animated gif of the hilarious look of surprise on its face when Harrigan cuts its hand off) the difference is shocking.

It's not like they utterly ruin the experience, but it's sloppy things like these that I feel stop it attaining the genre perfection of the original.

Although that said I do actually like Harrigan, and furthermore I like the idea of him. He's not some iron-pumping, he-man, steroid-beast super-soldier with biceps like cannonballs - he's a regular guy made strong, cunning and lethal through the rigors of his everyday life. I love the realisation that he's as capable of taking on a Predator and winning as Dutch was, he's just got to that stage in a completely different way. That's very cool, IMO.

http://www.dvdtown.com/coverart/pred...edition/13651/

New cover art for P2 collector's edition.

My fave sections of P2 include the part when the Predator kills the Jamaican dudes and the part in the slaughterhouse where he uses his spear and spinning blade.

This is a question I've always wondered myself, as I think I'm alone in the world in thinking that Predator 2 is the BETTER of the two films. *Hides*

Why? Because I think it's the best comic book film not actually adapted from a comic book I've ever seen. Seriously, watch the film again with that in mind and it's just look reading a comic book...the look...the camera angles...the editing...everything basically. I love the first Predator don't get me wrong, but I think they're both completely different animals. There's alot more I could say but I'm too tired right now hehe, maybe later...

As for what the other guy said, about the Alien being tougher than the Predator because no one survives in the alien pics yet the Predator leaves loads of survivors. Well...errr...get a grip man! An alien will capture you or kill you ON SIGHT!!! A Predator loves to fuck with it's prey, stalk it and make it more enjoyable. Emotions come into play with the Predator whilst it don't with an Alien, it only has a one track mind, so of course it's going to have the higher body count on paper but that does not mean tougher. A REAL Predator would waste a lone alien's ass with cunning e.t.c. but please, let's not discuss that merits of that piece of shit AVP, that film doesn't exist to me and it shouldn't for any true Alien or Predator fans, so let's just pretend it didn't happen and discuss it no more...

Predator 2 is sorta based on a comic book, in 1989 Dark Horse published a comic named simply Predator.The comic is set in the concrete jungle.And our favourite intergalactic rasta hunter is going after gangster involved in a gang war, just like in the film.

Show's how much I know then doesn't it? :P

It doesn't take away from what I was trying to say though, despite all the obvious tactics of say...Hulk by Ang Lee (God Awful), I've never felt like I've been watching a comic book in film medium more than when I'm watching Predator 2.

Predator
Arnold Schwarzeneggar: 1 Predator: 0
Predator2
Danny Glover: 1 Predator: 0

Alien
Sigourney Weaver:1 Alien:0
Aliens
Sigourney Weaver:1 Alien:0

Alien3:
Sigourney Weaver:0 Alien:1


Ding! Aliens win!

Jesus! Well after 3 attempts they better get it right :P *knock knock*

Simple answer to the question of the thread. The film was terrible.

Just have to say that I loved Predator 2! I never miss a chance to see it on TNT. I think it works as a sequel on pretty much every level. In fact, it almost seems like it was an alternate, unused script for the first movie. Still, you can't beat "the Body's" witticisms from the original -- "I ain't got time to bleed!" Classic.

While not the classic that the original is, I still think Predator 2 is a very solid sequel. It's also leagues ahead of Alien vs. Predator.

TIE fighter engines, blasters, lighsabers from Star Wars, and the pulse rifle from Aliens. Does Mr. Freeze's voice count in Batman the Animated Series?

Oh, and who could forget the Gonk droid?

The one good thing I can say about Predator 2 is that it contains Teri Weigel's best acting to date....

Rented this after reading the thread, for a sec I thought that they were going to be gutsy and end it with the Predators surroundeing Glover and then fading to black....the best bit was the gang leader who pulls out his sword and then get's decapitated and cleaned out for PRedators collection.

Question though, when Glover chases the Predator after the train sequence, is the ripped off head supposed to be Paxton or some homeless guy? I was cooking something during that part and the clothes didn't look like Paxtons....

It's Paxton. He screams "Jerry" after all...

Ahhhh, thanks....but......isn't the skull the Predator holding there skinned clean?

Or did the Predator feast on his dome?

Rank of Predator/Alien flicks overall:

1. Aliens
2. Predator
3. Alien
4. Predator 2
5. Alien vs. Predator
6. Alien Resurrection
7. Alien 3

1. Aliens
2. Alien
3. Predator
4. Alien 3
5. Alien Resurrection
6. Predator 2
7. Alien Vs Predator

1.) Aliens : (10/10)
2.) Alien : (10/10)
3.) Predator : (9/10)
4.) Alien 3 : (8/10)
5.) Predator 2 : (7/10)
6.) Alien Resurrection : (5.5/10)
7.) AVP: (4/10)

I'm not a fan of the film (I agree it improves tremendously once it becomes Glover vs. Predator, but the film loses me long before then), but can any of you who have a decent memory of it confirm the long-standing rumor that you can see Newcomers from Alien Nation in the crowd scenes during the opening firefight? The time frame in the film would be right chronologically, and they're both Fox films, so it'd be possible, but I've never bothered to look.

I don't remember seeing any newcomers but it would be cool if they were there. Here's my rundown of the franchises.

1. ALIENS
2. PREDATOR
3. ALIEN
4. PREDATOR 2
5. ALIEN RESURRECTION
6. AVP
7. ALIEN 3 (I know it's better than AVP but if you mess with Hicks you get the 7 spot)

There's nothing really wrong with PREDATOR 2. I liked how the action was brought to an urban setting and Busey is at his best. I would have prefered more Robert Davi and less Morton Downey Jr. but that's the way it goes.

Of course Glover isn't as good as Arnold but I give him credit for trying. It's like when Bill Saddler was the bad guy in DIE HARD 2, there's no way he can be as good as Alan Rickman but he sure gave it his all and that's what Glover did here. Plus it was cool to see Captain Murphy from the LETHAL WEAPON films take orders from Glover in PREDATOR 2.

If Arnold should end his career in politics I would love to see him in some kind of PREDATOR movie with Glover, and throw in Adam Baldwin for good measure.

How in the hell can anyone think Glover's Harrigan is exactly the same as Murtaugh? Murtaugh was a family man who kind of played buffoon to Riggs when the time came for it. I can't see Harrigan being tricked into dancing around in his boxers to distract an enemy or Murtaugh doing half the shit Harrigan did. They were exact opposites. Aside from them both being cops, what did they have in common? One's a single workaholic loner and the other is a by-the-book family man.

My take on the franchise (-s):

1. Alien (The Masterpiece)
2. Alien3 (The widely misunderstood and brilliant conclusion to the "Ripley" trilogy)
3. Aliens (The worthy sequel that is too weapon-fetishistic)
4. Predator (The equally weapon-fetishistic, homo-erotic and pure action thriller)
5. Predator 2 (The retread that at least doesn't compromise. A worthy sequel)
6. Alien: Resurrection (The failure that is better in theory than in practice)
7. Alien vs. Predator (The cynical cash-cow, the result of a hack-with-a-vision. In many ways a train wreck, but one that could actually have been much worse)

Predator 2 is the film that made me wonder whether steroid testing should be introduced to the movie business.

Did someone inflate Glover with a foot pump after Lethal Weapon 2?

Which way to the beach, baby!

Even though this thread is about the sequel (which I've always had love for), combing through the old posts I'm actually sensing some subtext that would lead me to believe the original is what's underrated (ie, it's great as shoot-em-ups go, it's good despite the homoerotic undertones, I dunno, I'm not really a fan of Arnie, etc.) I think it's one of the single best pure action movies of the last 25 years. Much like its monster, it's a lean, mean, fighting machine. It's like the best short stories - rich but not overly expository, interesting shades of character in a short period of time, beautifully vivid sense of location. And unlike many of the other heralded action movies of its time, it's aged perfectly well. I can't believe it's almost 20 years old.

I'm always knocked out when I think of McTiernan's resume in those days - PREDATOR, DIE HARD and HUNT FOR RED OCTOBER right in a row.


EDIT: I need to revise my original thought a little. Reading through this thread again, the undervaluing isn't nearly the undercurrent I thought it was. Just a few jabs I noticed here and there. Having said that, I do think the original film is sorely underrated by the masses. So I stand by what I said above, but direct it more toward the public than my fellow film geeks.

The year, in the film, is 1997 - I just watched this film about a month ago.

Looking back, even though it was only set 7 years into the future, PREDATOR 2's vision of L.A. was pretty close to reality. It may not have been Columbian gangs shooting up the streets but there were those Russian bank robbers who did about the same thing. They were a bit off when it comes to Maria Conchita Alonso, she was probably much more haggard looking in real 1997 than she was in PREDATOR 2's 1997.

You guys remember there was a crappy game based on the film made for the Sega Genesis?

What the fuck are you talking about? First of all, the Aliens didn't kill Ripley. She killed one and then killed herself, killing the other Alien inside her. Oh Jesus! I took the bait.

Think it through, Crazy. Of the Predator films, both heroes made it out alive. But Ripley never came back from her adventure. This indicates which is the more dangerous species.

Wait, wouldn't that mean that since the Aliens have had three cracks at a single protagonist, whereas the Predator only had one for each of it's, we would need two more movies with Dutch and Lt. Harrigan each?

1. Alien/Aliens/Predator (Excellent!).
3. Alien 3/Predator 2 (Great!).
4. Alien Resurrection (Commendable, but flawed).
5. Alien vs. Predator (Awful. Creative vision my ass, Anderson was hired because of the $$$ made from RE).


They craft five great films and a flawed sequel and then sell out for installment number seven. I can mildly understand selling out on a sequel to a series that hasn't made a whole lot of money, but such is not the case. The execs at Fox need decked in the face for AVP and then swift kicks in the ass to get motivated to bring out a quality installment(s) to atone for their horrible sin.



- Predator 3 would be easy to do. Just pick an interesting volatile setting and throw in the hunter. Also, give control to a director and writer that know what they are doing. Hell, bring back McTiernan and the Thomas Bros.

- Alien 5 is trickier. Do you do it with Sigourney or try something new? I'm clueless as to this and almost feel that it should be left alone unless a perfect idea is formed.

- Alien vs. Predator 2? That's simple. Adapt the damn comic/video game! Ingrediants: Future setting, a colonized planet, aliens dropped by Predators, colony becomes infested, Predators land, Colonial Marine Corps answers the distress call, mayhem insues. Again, give control to a director and writer who know what they are doing and all else will fall into place.

To be honest something based on the Briggs script/AVP2 game could make a fantastic film. It just needs to be in the hands of someone ready to make a movie, not a release date.

I bought both Predator films this past week and I recommend getting them if your a fan. There's even some cool easter eggs on the set for the original film: such as the bit where Stan Winston talks about getting back at Arnold by putting some giant mexican bullfrogs in Arnie's bed.

I'm still interested in seeing a third Predator film being made. Even if it's fifteen years late. Set it on the Predator's homeplanet or something.

That is exactly what an AVP2 film should be based on. As for making a movie and not a release date, you are perfectly correct but it matters not. Fox has not changed. They did it with Alien 3, they did it again with AVP, and now they are doing it once more with X-Men 3. Sad, sad, sad.

Catching some bits of AVP on TV this weekend, I couldn't agree more. Another sequel dedicated to the man in dreadlocks could be awesome, if done right. One really interesting idea I heard was setting P3 in the Old West. I like the idea of a band of fighters with primitive weapons going toe to toe with the baddie (which would be an interesting extension of the climax of the first film). It wouldn't even have to be the Old West. You could stick one in the time of Ancient Rome.

Having the story set in Ancient Rome or the Old West could be cool. A gang of hardened gunslingers in the Old West facing off against our titular alien foe could be a tribute to the original film's dynamic of colorful bad-ass soldiers.

While lounging around the IMDB boards yesterday, I heard someone suggest a rogue Predator ditching his home turf while Predator "bounty hunters" are after his ass, all the while humans get involved. Not a shabby idea.

The old west would be cool, I think a WW2 setting would be fun, even Robert Rodriguez's idea of Dutch being caught and put into a Predator-run zoo sounded good. There are a lot of great premises that could lead to another PREADATOR film. I just hope we get a 3rd one of those before we get an AVP2.

It's an interesting idea, the problem is that since they don't speak english you'd have to figure out how to communicate it all with images. Could be too difficult to get across to the audience. I like the western idea, it should also appeal to the accountants in charge. Everybody likes westerns. Everybody likes Predator movies. Everybody likes explosions.

I think going to the Predator's home planet (or the Aliens for that matter) would be a mistake because all it does is serve to de-mystify the species more than they already have been. Some things are better left unknown for your own imagination to conjur up.

A cool nickname for the Pred: "The Rastafarian Martian".

Found that while reading reviews at The Digital Bits.