BATMAN BEGINS discussion (No Spoilers)

I win...

I was hyped for this movie, was honestly taken aback by the first images of Battank and the suit, and am now slowly having my confidence restored by the teaser and hearing more from the people involved...

Where's everybody else, now that we're 10 months out?

I'm hyped up.

I thought the script was a solid framework with some weak dialogue, but I assume that Nolan and Goyer have been tweaking it along the way. After reading the reports from their Chicago presentation about how they wrote together during Nolan's wife's pregnancy...I still think that's the case. What we all got to read was probably an early Goyer draft, untouched by Nolan.

This could all be setting us up for a huge letdown, but I still haven't seen anything that I don't like.

I once told a friend that "The Hulk" was going to be the best superhero film far, well it was certainly the ballsiest & most intelligent of the Marvel crop, but I ended up eating half a humble pie anyway.

I of course have not learned my lesson, being a huge Batwhore and all, I'm *certain* Batman Begins will own.

Nolan can do what he wants, it's his show, I'm only hoping that there'll be a scene w/ Batman being a prick to somebody, anybody.
If you read the comics regularly, you should know that aside from being a badass, being a prick is one of his endearing qualities.

I just hope that Batman Begins manages to tell a great story and lay the groundwork for the future installments. Bale from interviews and past articles really sounds like he wants the film to be the best it could possibly be, I think he mentioned how he wanted to make it his best role when his father passed away. I keep hearing that the script for BB is either really good or really bad, so I don't know if it's just different opnions or they just read a different variation of it. I wonder how they'll handle Batman as a crimefighter, if they'll go for that type of action as seen in the Animated series or like the past fighting in Batman films where it was rather weak [mostly due to the costume but still....]

One wonders what Nolan will have in mind for the Joker, seeing how he is Batmans nemesis i'd say they should not kill most of the villains in Batmans rogue gallery, or else there'll be nothing.

Teaser was ok, but I want more, MORE dammit.

I think you're letting the "similar" looking suit cloud your vision, because this film looks *nothing* like the Burton films.
Batman's world is a dark place, so of course there will be some repetitive themes, it's damn near unavoidable.

I have to agree with you there. I thought that certain aspects of the teaser reminded me much more of Superman (The Movie) than anything Burton has done. Burton is a wiz at creating odd/off parallel universes that twist reality with quirky fantasy. In fact, that's his calling card. I didn't get that feel at all from this teaser.

Agreed. From what we've seen so far, this film couldn't look anymore different from Burton's.

I'm glad.

I think this will be just fine, and I'll continue to think that until given reason not to.

Well he's Batman. Bats tend to fly with their wings spread. Since when did Burton copyright that?

Easily my most looked forward to film since LOTR:ROTK.

I think this is the one film WB have finnally got "right" from what ive heard so far. The cast is phenonminal and to have got all of those people on bord it must have a pretty damn good script.

Anyone here seen that video of the bats on aint it cool? That cape looks awesome....

I'll add my two cents. Batman is a film I cared nothing for, until WB got serious with going in a new direction. The first signal they were doing it right was Nolan. He's not my favorite director (I merely liked Memento), but he wasn't a big name. He wasn't a selling point...just a skilled director. Then, after all of the terrible options touted on imdb and other dreadful sites, the moneymen allowed Bale to be cast as the lead. Bale, who's a great actor, has incredible physical skills, and looks the part. But who's a relative unknown. This signalled that they were casting the role, not the movie poster. That Batman was the draw, not some stars. That I am a little gay for Bale is beside the point

They then surrounded Bale with a top-notch cast, only pandering a little with Katie Holmes (who's still a tolerable actress). A cast that included Watanabe (for Ra's...who'd have ever thought we'd see Ra's in a movie), Freeman, Wilkinson, Neeson, and the incredible Oldman (they got Gary Oldman to play Gordon). The car bothered me not at all. It made sense. My first good look at the suit wasn't all that great, but I don't care. It'll look fine in motion, and the film's not about the suit or the toys. It's about the man. I haven't (and won't) read the script. This movie is important to me, and I want to watch it wondering what's around the corner. Not counting off script moments/changes (which is what *I* would do).

They then quietly release a very subtle teaser, with the right tone and style to get me very interested. Bale looks good.

It looks like a winner, and is easily the film I am most excited about in the future.

Take care,
Chuck

Well, I have come down to Earth on this project. I was psyched out previously, but then I read an early draft of the script and I feel like it has noticeable holes. I'm not long for the actual plot, and I think some lines are a Schumockery, plus the twist is mega-silly.

The fact is, it is a great cast, but there were probably big paychecks involved. I mean, Bale is a guy who has some silly shit on his resume, and Oldman is coming off a series of straight to video flicks. Michael Caine is known for selecting roles based on where they're being filmed and while I wish it were true, not everything Rutger Hauer touches turns to gold.

At best, this movie is my favorite of 2005. At worst, which is likely, it's as good as BATMAN RETURNS. Not terrible, but definetly not what my expectations are.

That's not Burton, that's a total Batman move that Burton adapted from the comic to the big screen.

It's encouraging that ,as it seems,they will use Batman's more theatrical moves,like hanging upside down,using his cape and such.These grand gestures are critical in Batman's behaviour,imho.

Yeah he does those things to strike fear into his enemies, and him crashing down with his cape fully expanded has to be pants shitting scary to the bad guys.

I assume you're referring to the leaked draft, which I understand has already been rewritten. But sure, it's easy to come up with plenty of reasons to question the project. For example, it beggars belief that Warners is giving a $100 million+ franchise film to-and supposedly staying out of the way of-a director who's only made three small, intimate mysteries. It's like something out of Barton Fink. Even if WB thinks Nolan is the godhead, he has no experience handling a film of this scale, and he could well be presiding over a mess.

Nonetheless, I still can't dispel the feeling of goodwill that seems to have spread around this film, delusional or no; given how upfucked the DC properties have been to date, it may just be another example of "the soft bigotry of low expectations".

I still don't think the suit looks all that similar to Burton's. It's very misleading--when that one pic leaked in the other Batman Begins thread, I thought it was kind of bulky and rubbery looking. But if you look closer, you'll notice the bulk is actually Bale: About 50-60 percent of that suit is basically wet-suit material. There's extra padding up around the chest (which makes sense, he's wearing kevlar under there, I believe) and I think there's actual armor around his shoulders and knees, but other than that, the suit is mostly form fitting stretch fabric, with padding underneath it in certain spots. Definitely a lot thinner, less rubbery and bulky

When people say "similar" when talking about the suit, I believe they're attention is primarily concentrated on the cowl and the coloring.
The cowl *is* similar, and much to my chagrin they once again felt the need to use mascara. I do however realize that it is important for an actor to be able to convey emotion through the eyes. If lenses were used that could go so far as to disrupt the body language of the character, and make him difficult to read in a bad way.

I've seen enough pictures of the costume to become fully comfortable with it, including the clearest one yet on Superhero Hype; a picture of Bale relaxing on set w/ Oldman wearing the preliminary "experimental design".

I was really hoping that Warners would not release a pic of Ra's Al Ghul, as I'd have preferred to seen him 1st on the screen, or at least closer to the release date. If they happen to release a costumed Scarecrow pic, I'll have to fight the desire to steal a peek.

Only thing I'm weary about is the role that all of the heavy hitters in the cast will occupy. I think they all deserve a "moment or two", I'm just hoping they don't overwhelm or unbalance the picture.

Love Nolan's work and Nick was dead on in his Equilibrium review that Bale is Batman the rest is gravy and icing.

The movie I want to see most in 2005 is this one.

Just for the record gravy and icing sounds like a terrible combination.

Well yeah but you get my meaning... I hope.

My most anticipated film in years. My favorite fictional character.

The fact that Bale, the best possible candidate, actually got the job is amazing to me and very refreshing. Aside from that this has the best cast since "Heat". Whether they all get utilized or not (see "Troy" for how to waste a magnificent cast) remains to be seen, but the caliber of thespians couldn't be any higher.

Great looking teaser hinting at the best possible route for them to take. All about Batman and actually delving into his mind in a real way.

Very cool suit, awesome batmobile. I'm psyched, but sadly, I'll be in Iraq, so for the first time in my life I'll probably have to wait until DVD.

Agreed, and stay safe Stew.

Yeah Stew, thanks for looking out for us.

I'll third that one Stew stay safe and thanks for your service. Hope the movie is kickass and you enjoy whenever you're able to see it.

Thanks guys, it means a lot. Its so weird though to think about. I usually see big movies like this on opening day. Or a wild midnight showing. Now I'll be gone for the entire theatrical run and maybe much of its DVD life. "Star Wars:Episode III" too. I'm in the infantry and am going to get shot at, but I actually pout more about this!

There's a cool little article on Batman Begins HERE. Nothing new, really. But for those following every little bit of Bat-info going around, here ya go.

"He had just lost 80lbs for his role in the psychological thriller The Machinist"

haha. now its 80? seems Bale just keeps getting thinner and thinner!
i thought they would stop at 63lbs.. guess i was wrong.
right now, someone somewhere is having a hard time converting pounds to kilograms.



theres some great new Bale quotes in that piece, tho:

"This Batman remains in the shadows and is fuelled by a great deal of rage. He has tremendous anger. He's not a knight in shining armour, because of his personal need for revenge."

"This is probably the biggest film I will ever do, and if I didn't treat it seriously, nobody else would,"

"I wanted to make Batman more like a creature, more like a beast, than a human being. I didn't want him to be just a funny bloke in a fancy-dress costume. You're either going to look like a complete fool or you're going to look like a bad-ass. So you have to look like a bad-ass."

I know that quotes from people in the production can be disappointing when they talk a good talk but don't follow through, but damn if everyone involved here doesn't seem to really "get" it. I really want to hear what David Julyan says about his score. To me its one of the very biggest ingredients, and his music for "Memento" and "Insomnia" was atmospheric but too subtle for what I think we deserve for a Batman film. I want another nice theme.

I'm interested in seeing what they do for a score too. It's about time Batman had some musical reinvention. As much as I love the Elfman score and all its variations, that's been the character's musical trademark for fifteen years it seems a little bombastic for the new mood of this film.

I'm not familiar with Julyan really, so i'm not sure what hes capable of, but I'd like to see them try something different. Like the Spider-Man score, lame as much of it was, had some pretty sweet moments scored with electric guitar which was cool and should have been utilized more extensively.

I'm not saying that's right for Batman, but I'm saying they could rethink the character musically the way they've been rethinking the whole mythos. I'd have something more eerie. A little funkier, a little grittier- more "detective movie" than superhero movie.

What's that bizarre electric instrument that goes "whooooeeeeoooouuueeooo?" They used it in the scores for Ghostbusters and dozens of old monster movies, and the Beach Boys' "Good Vibrations." It'd be great to see them cram one of those bad boys in there.

Yeah, Elfman's score fit Burton's version like a glove, but the film was complete fantasy/goth. Nolan's film looks to be much more gritty and real and the music should reflect that. So far Julyan's scores have been very foreboding which is good but I'm afraid he may not have the ability to inject the score with a little GRANDNESS, because even though it's grounded in reality it's still very much a fantasy type movie and there needs to be a balance between that foreboding darkness and realism and the grand Wagnerian style that Elfman got so perfect. Wouldn't it be cool if they could work together? A sort of blending of styles.

I hope it's noirish, w/ a dash of melodrama, guilty pleasure that.

If it's anything like Julyan's previous scores (plus a bit of added grandeur instead of bombast) then I'll be very happy.

I dig Julyan's MEMENTO work, but man, Elfman's score is just fucking awesome. It'll be hard to beat.

Very true, and while Elfman (like Julyan) hadn't done anything extremely significant before "Batman", I'd still feel a little more at ease with James Newton Howard, Cliff Martinez, or Patrick Doyle writing this score.

Oh yeah. It's become almost as iconic as Batman himself. The music in Burton's films was like a character.

My hope, though, is that they don't try to outdo Elfman's score but rather go for something more subtle (more ominous and ambient) with hints of BIG (you would think I'd find a better adjective) for just the right moments. I know the music in the teaser wasn't Julyan's, but if it's at all similar, I wouldn't be dissapointed because it seems to jibe very well with the visual tone the film seems to be going for.

Elfman's score for the Hulk crushes his work on the Bats and Spidey films.
That's just me though.

Is there anyway to take a peak at the script for Batman Begins?
Or a link to a review of it perhaps?

You might want to do some searches and PM some people in any threads you find. Careful though, remember this is the Non-spoiler thread so keep a tight lid on whatever you find out.

I read the draft that was going around, but almost instantly regretted it and deleted it from my computer. I will say this though- It hasn't done anything to make me want to stay away from the film. It's actually made me more eager to see it come to life in front of me.

I liked it. I think that's the best recommendation I could possibly give it.

I agree sort of. On crushing Spidey absolutely. Batman no.

Bullaffleck. Elfman's score on Bats was insane. I still get an adrenaline rush listening to it. His score on the Hulk and Spidey films were generic at best, and certainly not memorable, IMO.

hi-res 40-meg version of the begins teaser:
http://pdl.warnerbros.com/wbmovies/b...begins_drm.wmv

"I looked at 'YEAR ONE,' 'THE LONG HALLOWEEN' and I saw that they were superb and hadn't realised before that (he) was that interesting of a character because I think that all that I'd seen before was that the villains were fascinating in Batman always, and suddenly I was reading these and it was like he's by far the most interesting of them (characters)" ~ Christian Bale on the set of Batman Begins.

You know you're a geek when something like this gives you an erection.

Cool.

Check it out...

"At last! Learn the startling origins of the Dark Knight!"

-The tagline for that "comic book" absolutely kills me, and I wish they'd have the sense of fun to use something so pulpy in the actual campaign.

But it will probably be something stupid like "before the Knight there is the dawn" in an attempt to sound dramatic.

Maybe theyre treating the tone of the film with a touch more gravitas than that?

Maybe the last time Batman had a sense of fun he was overtly gay with tights and man-boobies?

Maybe thats precisely the feel Nolan ISNT going for?

Maybe?

Oh give me a break. I've praised everything about this production so far- The tone of the film is certainly darker and more appropriate than the last few. There's some sardonic humor in the script, though. Batman's roots are in pulp horror and detective fiction and the film doesn't seem to ignoring that either. Why couldn't some of that be extended to the marketing campaign?

Besides, hoping they have a little fun with the promotion of this movie is far from being a call for the return of bat-nipples.

Oh man, I found this today in the forums of Channel 101 (independent monthly 5-minute faux-TV shows voted in by an audiance; check it out, you'll like it) and just had to post it here.

That's not to say I agree with all or even much of what he's saying, but in an environment like Chud with loud opinions coming from everywhere you sometimes lose sight of reality. Heh, it seems the recent posts here make this one (written today, no less (technically yesterday, but I started this post before midnight so I get grandfathered in)) even more timely.