REVENGE OF THE SITH discussion - Page 2

I have to disagree with this.

The action is good, the animation and alot of the designs look good, but the story and most of the dialogue (mostly due to bad vioce-overs, except for Grievous and Dooku which were both done well) is nothing spectacular.

That said the series is still enjoyable, it's good Star Wars, but the short length of the chapters really helps to mask how empty the series really is, and I hope that changes with the upcoming 12 minute chapters.

Greivous has very little importance to the story. He's there to look cool and give obi-wan something to do during the middle of the film. Plus, he'll sell more action figures than Dooku did.

Well, there's the whole prototype/shadowing Darth Vader thing, but I guess that isn't important either...

As for CLONE WARS... I stand by my judgment. It has more of SW's atmosphere and creativeness than the prequels. And it's way more fun. That's just me though.

not entiely sure what's being disagreed about here but here's my take:

Although Ahnuld can't act for toffee, he was really believable in 'the terminator' because he was playing an android.

So, even if the artistic levels of characterisation of grevious aren't up to Gollum, grevious could still come over as an extremely compelling character, or a least make an extremely powerful impact on screen.
the believability of grevious could be up there with gollum, possibly because he's just a robot.

Anyways, he's a creepy alien dude (who definitely isn't Maul, apparantly) with a robotic body, so there could be more aspects to his persona than just whirring gears.
We also, as far as i'm aware, not certain as to his role in the film, though at the moment it certainly is likely that he's there purely for some 2nd string villain business and the inevitable toys.
it will be interesting to see if they try to explain his extreme manouvreability against Vader's clunky movements.

I think ILM is pulling out all the stops to make Grievous a great characterization. He's gonna be the opposite of Maul in terms of personality.

Lotsa dialogue

Lotsa character

Rob Coleman was asked about animating him:

Only important in the sense that it gave Lucas cause to show Dooku(an actual interesting character)the exit in the first ten minutes so his new CG character can take center stage for awhile. As for being a prototype of Vader, isn't it funny that the prototype is far more advanced looking than vader ends up looking. Look, I'm really not trying to bash Grievous. I'm sure he'll be cool to look at onscreen. I loved that finished rendering of his head and eyes that popped up in cinefex(least I think it was cinefex, could be wrong) awhile ago. But as advancements in CG go I see little room for advancement with the designs they are working with.

From all accounts officially and otherwise, we can expect Grievous to have a much larger role then most of the prequel villians thus far.

He's important at least for a few reasons:

1 - The story that Lucas is telling here requires another villian, unless you think of a better way to keep the other Jedi busy. Do we send Obi-Wan out on milk run that lasts a good hour or more of the film? I think not.

2 - This is Star Wars, you have to have some sort of major villian involved in the action

3 - All those Jedi can't kill theirselves (and Anakin alone isn't enough to do all of that either)

4 - With Dooku gone, who will lead the Confederacy war effort? Someone has to step up to the plate and take charge.

5 - It's likely that Grievous is working with Palpatine to device his captivity and take Dooku out of the picture.

6- Grievous leads to the Jedi discovering Palpatine's real identity

And this is the only rendered shot glimpsed so far.....

And it's not even the completed model that will be seen in the film.

See, I'm not arguing about his characterization. He could be a great character. But from a visual standpoint he's mostly metal and a cape. Gollum was flesh and blood and expressive to the nth degree. But, when all you've got to express with is the eyes then saying that he will give Gollum a run for his money is just silly.

Will he be a cool character? Sure, I don't see why he can't be a cool character with the right voice and good writing. Vader was great and he didn't even have the luxury of eyes to emote with just the voice. But when it comes to what was more of an advancement in the actual look of cg characters then Gollum will be above Grievous on the CG evolutionary scale until a more expressive and even more realistically advanced looking creature or human comes along to knock Gollum from first place.

It seems to me that most of what Grievous does could be done by Dooku, but I'm sure he'll be cool.

Anakin's annihilation of DOOKU in the opening act is a heck of a lot more important than keeping that red herring character around for the rest of the narrative.

It's important plot-wise.

It's important on mythological terms.

Dooku was another stepping stone to Sidious capturing the "chosen one". He also served his main purpose in EP2 (Creating Civil war in the galaxy)


Move along....move along

It's important when making it all up as you go along.

Wow, really?

Dang.

I'll tell you this once and once only: Lucas knew every line of dialogue back in 1973, for all 15 movies.

It's a bit hard to answer precisely without revealing a spoiler. Darth, if you and the guys really want to know I can post the answer in the OTHER thread (right, Trinity?) . But I'm not so sure how much people actually want to know (even though they say they do).

You're talking about Palpatine flipping the switch that turns the Clonetroopers against the Jedi, right?

Kreeper you can PM me with it.

I really can't wait for Grevious on screen, simply because I loved him in the clone wars when he has a bunch of lightsabers and they show him leaping towards a jedi and he looks like if the lfightsabers don't kill the jedi, he'll just land on him and crush him anyways.

Too bad, John Di Maggio voiced Grevious in the CW shorts but isn't being used for the film, I think they got Gary Oldman as Grevious' voice for the films, I think Di Maggio would've been great for the film.

In case someone here dosn't know who John Di Maggio is...

I was saying the same when I heard about him being in CW, being a gigantic Futurama fan.

But that picture of Grievous really gives me the creeps.

Is english your first language? Who the hell is Padmine?

Why would Vader even care? It would be totally jarring if in the middle of Vader trying to intimdate Han and Leia he stops cold to say hello to his old droid. I'm just rationalizing here. It's like a cop pulling over a wanted criminal then talking the crook's ear off about how he used to drive a similar car.

Anyway, droids are really common throughout the galaxy.

That short story was great, definently makes me feel better about some of the holes I mentioned to myself that I saw in the story. You do have quite a point that you can formulate what isn't there without much trouble.

Exactly.

SCORE!

Give that man a cigar (and a free trip to The Ranch)...

I'm anxiously awaiting for you to report to the Episode III Spoilers thread and share these tidbits you keep hinting around about.

But why do they switch helmets, or maybe they don't show why, maybe when they get to IV they've just remodeled a bit.

Nah, they don't switch helmets. It's more like:

Clonetroopers are good guys.

Stormtroopers are bad guys.

In episode III, the Clonetroopers turn on the Jedi--making them bad guys. hence they "transform" into Stormtroopers.

Bozz: I'm pretty sure I can fill in the blanks on some of Kreepers spoilers:

That's referring to Anakin force choking out Padme in a fit of rage at his percieved betrayal by her, I think. Obi Wan then jumps in

I think this refers to Mace storming Palpatine's office, wiping out his red guards like it aint shit and then going head up with Palpatine himself. Of course, Palpatine gains the upper hand, and Anakin delivers the finishing blow, cementing his turn to the Dark Side. Anakin then enters the Jedi Temple and slaughters everything that moves.

and this isn't really a spoiler, but:

Roger Barton. Edited "Pearl Harbor" and "Gone in 60 Seconds" Word is that Burtt is still helping a little bit editorially, however, and did work with the animatics team extensively.

BRING ME THE STONES.

That actually made me laugh out loud.

I do think having Anakin create C-3PO was a contrivance. But this is a pretty easy one to figure out and fits right in with the events of the OT.

Remember what Ben said in ROTJ to Luke about his father's transformation? When Anakin became Vader he purged/repressed every aspect of his former self. His rebirth in Ep. III is not just a physical transformation but a psychological one as well. As far as he's concerned, Anakin was a weak (emotionally vulnerable/hurt by Padme' and Obi-Wan, born in slavery), powerless (couldn't save Shmi/mother) person. He simply hates Anakin so much that he has, in effect, "killed" him. And after what he went through in EP. II and what he goes through in EP III, I can't say I totally blame the man. We've seen how much he loved his mother Shmi: he created C-3PO for her. It makes perfect sense to me that he'd purge that painful memory.

The reason I think EP III will be interesting in that it'll cause people to see ROTJ in the light Lucas intended. The scene where Luke is writhing on the floor in agony and calling out to his father and Anakin , not Vader, responds will mean that much more. Lucas always said that the film was about redemption.

(For the record, I think that Ben's "certain point of view" statement to Luke was very weak. Lucas should have just had him tell Luke that he lied to him because he wouldn't have been able to handle the burden of knowing Vader was his father. I think it's interesting that despite Ben telling him that Vader can't be saved, the kid goes and proves him wrong. But as we'll see in Ep. III, Ben has a few character flaws of his own.)

I can't believe you're actually arguing about somthing you haven't even seen yet! Doesn't that strike you as kind of odd?

Which character do you think will be more emotive in the end, Grievous or Gollum?

Gollum actually had a face to emote with. Grievous has a mask.

I don't have to see actual Grievous footage to guess that he won't be as emotive a character as Gollum. Will he be cool looking? Yes, most definitely, but does Grievous have the potential from a design standpoint to be as groundbreaking as Gollum? Unlikely, he's mostly a robot and we've seen that before. He has only eyes and a voice to act with and that limits the range of emotions he can display. Doesn't mean he can't be menacing or an effective character, I'm not arguing that I'm simply stateing that from a design standpoint Grievous doesn't stand a chance of outdoing Gollum in the animation department.

What is odd about arguing that?

What is this "flipping the switch" business Kreeper is talking about? I can't help but think of the Simpsons Halloween special featuring the Krusty doll with his 'good' and 'evil' switch.

Maybe it'll be like that episode of Futurama where all the robots suddenly turn evil.

LOL, Slowpoke

Witness the awesome destructive power of mime!

seriously though, those lamps from pixar were as full of character as any amination of the last 20 years.

High-Res

1024 x 768 Quick & dirty...

Kreeper "But as we'll see in Ep. III, Ben has a few character flaws of his own"

I'd love to hear more about this, Kreeper!

OB1 is a man of strong character and conviction and has been presented as such thus far in the PT. He actually strives in the rigid structure of the Jedi order. But he has to be flawed in some way to be human and for the audience to relate to him. I think it's true that these flaws will be seen or at least aluded to in ROTS.

I believe that when Anakin said that OB1 was "holding him back" he was not just whining. There was truth in that statement.

Is OB1 holding Anakin back to try to teach him, control him, or is it a result OB1's of envy of the "Force given abilities" that Anakin has?

OB1 is like the old sports veteran that is mentoring the young talented rookie. He genuinely wants to teach the youngster, but there is a part of him that thinks, "If I had his ability along with my experience, I would be the best of them all."

I think there is some deep seeded resentment on both sides in their relationship...Anakin's is just much closer to the surface, while OB1's lies deep and he may not even consiously acknowledge it's there. We may see it be revealed in OB1's actions during ROTS.

It turns out that Mustafar, more specifically it's geological environment, is an excellent symbolic representation of the end of their relationship. Their emotions "erupt", repressed anger and resentment is revealed, they battle, and each one loses a part of themselves. OB1 has failed Anakin, and Anakin has failed OB1 and the galaxy pays the price.

Ed:

If you think about it, Obi-Wan is becoming more and more like Qui-Gon Jinn. There's already a pronounced change between TPM and AOTC. By the time of the original trilogy, he's much more Qui-Gon than a Republic Jedi. (Same with Yoda in EMPIRE)


QUI-GON : Feel...don't think....use your instincts

OBI-WAN : I suggest you try it again, Luke. This time, let go your conscious self and act on instinct.


or

QUI-GON : Don't center on your anxiety, Obi-Wan. Keep your concentration
here and now where it belongs.
OBI-WAN : Master Yoda says I should be mindful of the future...
QUI-GON : .....but not at the expense of the moment.


YODA : This one a long time have I watched. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was
doing.


Something happens in REVENGE to change their whole outlook on life and the force. Obi-Wan is gonna blame himself in some part for the terrible tragedy of Anakin Skywalker (not to mention havng to deal with the fact that his sect has been destroyed), so it makes sense that he made amends to his perspectives by the OT.

There was a similar nifty little parallel drawn by D. Trull in either his TPM or AOTC dissertations -- that Kenobi's attitudes towards the "Living Force" and the "Unifying Force" get turned completely around by the time he's living the sweet life of the hermit, suckling from the teat of Mother Nature out near Beggar's Canyon.

Something's gonna get majorly fuckarooed in Revenge -- as you said -- to make him do this, and we all know where this ultimately ends up, vis-a-vis Luke's training.

Revenge of the Sith Political Pin

Hi:

I just bought and received yesterday a very cool pin that has the famous quote Ewan McGregor says
about a Sith only seeing in Abolsutes.

Here is the link to the pin. I think we should all get one and really sock it to the current adminisitration. Lucas has great foresight to do that exchange with Darth and Obi One.

http://www.ronsrhinestones.com/MR-LPI0252.html

rafe