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" So my country is in financial ruin up yours! "Russia Developing New Nuclear Missile - Page 2

post #51 of 85
11/18/04 at 10:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALIENinfluence
You are a true example of idiocy! I've been saying that the idea of a black hole weapon is what is DESIRED by the military...
And this is detailed where?
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post #52 of 85
11/18/04 at 10:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Warren
When you act like a condescending prick, you're pissing in my territory.
I take it you have some expertise in this area? <fx: snigger>

Quote:
I'd suggest not being so literal in your interpretations of ALIENinfluence's posts. Yes, his claim is ambiguous, but there's a fairly sensible post inbetween the wacky claims. All the guy was trying to say is that it wouldn't be surprising if the military Was funding a loony "Black Whole" weapons programme.
Erm ... I think you'll find that ALIEN states this is a "desired" weapon.
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post #53 of 85
11/18/04 at 10:45pm
Whatever, I'm done.
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post #54 of 85
11/18/04 at 10:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentOrange
And I'm somehow discredited by pointing out the fact that Naeye isn't qualified to pass judgment on experimental research he is excluded from?
Maybe he isn't qualified. Maybe he's excluded because he's a quack. You didn't say that. You stated that he doesn't work for CERN — big deal, you don't work for the department of health, but you free to comment on your impression that they're wasting billions on CJD research.
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post #55 of 85
11/18/04 at 10:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Warren
Maybe he isn't qualified.
Thankyou.
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post #56 of 85
11/18/04 at 10:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALIENinfluence
I told you, my deceased father-in-law was in the defense contracting business for years. Guys would sit around in the coffee room and dream up all kinds of crazy crap to sell to the government.
So what you are saying is that there is no evidence whatsover that the miltary "desires" a singularity weapon.

QED.
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post #57 of 85
11/18/04 at 10:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentOrange
And this is detailed where?
Does something like that have to be documented? I mean, the military has pursued some fairly large white elephants. Given the fact that the planet is destroyable several times over, it strikes me as sensible to assume the military would go after something stupid like a Black Hole. Just ask yourself: what would grifter do?
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post #58 of 85
11/18/04 at 10:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuddL
Whatever, I'm done.
You never started.
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post #59 of 85
11/18/04 at 10:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentOrange
So what you are saying is that there is no evidence whatsover that the miltary "desires" a singularity weapon.

QED.
Who cares. QED is for mathematical proofs, not hypothetical arguments. Unless you plan on running his posts through a truth table.
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post #60 of 85
11/18/04 at 11:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Warren
Does something like that have to be documented?
You tell me. Would you prefer it if a highly unstable and ridiculously lethal weapon such as a "tactical black hole" <fx: guffaw> was designed exclusively inside someone's cranium with no written records?
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post #61 of 85
11/18/04 at 11:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentOrange
Thankyou.
I'm curious: what makes him unqualified?
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post #62 of 85
11/18/04 at 11:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentOrange
You tell me. Would you prefer it if a highly unstable and ridiculously lethal weapon such as a "tactical black hole" <fx: guffaw> was designed exclusively inside someone's cranium with no written records?
Yes.
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post #63 of 85
11/18/04 at 11:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALIENinfluence
No, you've been right all along. The US military is always in the habit of telling the public what they have under research in the field of weaponry. What do you want, a General to hold a press conference telling you we're building stealth-capable missiles, new bio-warfare agents, and other assorted goodies?

If you don't have an 'in' source on the industry, you don't get to find out what's going on in the field.(with the exception of a projects like building a new sub or naval ship that's in plain sight)
ROFLMAO!

I'd just like to say at this point that I've come across "secret hearsay" which proves absolutely that the Papua New Guinean government plans to eradicate the entire planet and achieve world dominance with a crop of bananas that radiate lethal cosmic rays.

There is no evidence whatsoever to substantiate my claim but the fact that armies are entirely opposed to revealing weapons secrets automatically renders the above statement absolute truth.

I shall now retire to my bomb shelter and read some dodgy SF. <fx: laughter>
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post #64 of 85
11/18/04 at 11:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Warren
I'm curious: what makes him unqualified?
The fact that he's not included in the project. The kind of research involved in these experiments is so specialised that only a handful of people on the planet are qualified to oversee it. If he had the knowledge to contribute positively to this project then he would have been included. It would make no sense not to include him.
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post #65 of 85
11/18/04 at 11:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Warren
Yes.
You are aware of the fact that the calculations involved in fission and fusion experiments require teams of scientists working around the clock with super mainframe computers?

Would you care to consider the question again?
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post #66 of 85
11/18/04 at 11:19pm
In response to the ROFLMAO post:

Well, AO, no one has laid claim to the absolute truth. Which is what makes this discussion so inane. The black hole thing is just a poorly substantiated hypothetical meant to suggest at the absurdity of arms races.

I'm dragging this out because I dislike misguided intellectual self-righteousness more than I dislike absurd claims.

You're dragging this out because you're convinced alieninfluence must be set right for holding views he probably doesn't hold that dearly.

I'm fairly sure JuddL is just looking for an oppurtunity to look educated. (Reason number 2 for being here: I think JuddL is an idiot.)
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post #67 of 85
11/18/04 at 11:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentOrange
The fact that he's not included in the project. The kind of research involved in these experiments is so specialised that only a handful of people on the planet are qualified to oversee it. If he had the knowledge to contribute positively to this project then he would have been included. It would make no sense not to include him.
I thought so. This sort of intellectual eltism has no validity. You're attacking his credentials, not his words.
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post #68 of 85
11/18/04 at 11:28pm
PhD, no dot. And only to the extent that a philosophical understanding of the subject matter in which the doctrate is recieved.
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post #69 of 85
11/18/04 at 11:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentOrange
You are aware of the fact that the calculations involved in fission and fusion experiments require teams of scientists working around the clock with super mainframe computers?

Would you care to consider the question again?
Yes, I'd rather the whole thing existed as a fantasy in someone's head.
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post #70 of 85
11/18/04 at 11:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Warren
Well, AO, no one has laid claim to the absolute truth. Which is what makes this discussion so inane. The black hole thing is just a poorly substantiated hypothetical meant to suggest at the absurdity of arms races.
Ahem ... ALIEN has stated that such is a "desired goal", yes?

Quote:
I'm dragging this out because I dislike misguided intellectual self-righteousness more than I dislike absurd claims.
Translation: I have (irrational) "issues" with what I perceive to be "intellectuals": how terribly dreary.

<fx: If I had a roll eyes smiley, I'd insert it here>

Quote:
You're dragging this out because you're convinced alieninfluence must be set right for holding views he probably doesn't hold that dearly.
I'm "dragging this out" because I have a problem with people putting forward gibberish as fact. If you have a problem with it then ... cool, you’ve offered me something to do over the long, cold winter months. <grin>
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post #71 of 85
11/18/04 at 11:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Warren
PhD, no dot. And only to the extent that a philosophical understanding of the subject matter in which the doctrate is recieved.
Inverse snobbery: How disappointing <fx: chortle>
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post #72 of 85
11/18/04 at 11:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Warren
I thought so. This sort of intellectual eltism has no validity.
More inverse snobbery. Do you want some vinegar to go with those sour grapes Adam?

ROFLMAO!
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post #73 of 85
11/18/04 at 11:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentOrange
Translation: I have (irrational) "issues" with what I perceive to be "intellectuals": how terribly dreary.

<fx: If I had a roll eyes smiley, I'd insert it here>
You wrongly assume that I've mistaken you for an intellectual.
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post #74 of 85
11/18/04 at 11:46pm
I'll bite the bullet on the PhD comment. It was directed at ALIENinfluence.

I'm not interested in defending myself against absurd claims of inverse snobbery; you're the one attacking people's motivations and credentials, while inserting "fx" chortles and grins, as if you own reason and everyone else has devolved into lunacy — and mearly pointing this out is enough to win argument.

As is, we've quite lost track of what was being discussed.
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post #75 of 85
11/19/04 at 12:24am
I can't believe this is still going.

Here's a response from an actual physicist on a similar topic:

Quote:
It is not possible to create a real black hole in a laboratory on
Earth. The energy required to create a black hole is far beyond
anything that scientists can generate. Even our Sun, which dwarfs the
Earth both in size and in energy production will not give rise to a
black hole at the end of its life. Black holes are created when stars
larger than our Sun collapse, or at the centers of galaxies of
billions of stars, or during the Big Bang, all processes involving
unimaginably high energies. Naturally, a "black hole weapon" is also
impossible at this time.

To answer the second part of your question in detail, I would need to
see the article to which you refer. Using a WWWeb search engine, I
found several like this one, which I will take to be typical:
http://www.sciencenet.org.uk/slup/Cu...blackhole.html

The scientists in the link above are not creating real black holes,
but merely laboratory experiments that model one particular feature of
black holes, their ability to trap light. Light or anything else can
enter the event horizon surrounding a black hole but can never escape.
The scientists hope that observing a similar effect in moving fluids,
rather than just imagining what actually occurs near a real black
hole, will stimulate new theoretical ideas which may prove useful for
real black holes. Sometimes seeing a working model gives one insight
that equations on paper do not.
oh and spare me the pompous assertion that I'm here to look educated. I am educated (moreso by the day in fact) and I couldn't care less whether or not anyone inteprets me as such, let alone a message board nestled in the nether regions of geekdom. That's your cue to go fuck yourself, Adam.
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post #76 of 85
11/19/04 at 1:18am
You're disproving anon-existent claim, Judd; no one suggested that creating a blackhole is possible now; as for the future, the odds poor (there are no certainties in science). It's just speculation as to whether or not the military would be dopey enough to give it a shot, and the absurdity of the global arms race; that is the subject of this thread, after all.
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post #77 of 85
11/19/04 at 1:40am
I admit I jumped into the conversation late, and didn't bother reading Alien's initial post at first, so admittedly I missed his original point. Still, this was his response to me:

Quote:
Yeah, I'm retarded enough to know that with the 2 incomplete systems of General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics, that Physics is still an incomplete science. You and your buddy from Cow College U both are on your high horses claiming to absolutely know all there is to know about black holes and their related effects. I'm eagerly awaiting the next paper you two are going to publish in the Scientific American.
So now he has taken the conversation away from the "dopiness" of our military's expenditures and into the realm of science. If that wasn't his point, and it seems it wasn't, I couldn't tell. Do I agree that our military will throw money at anything with the slightest potential advantage? Sure, there's a lot of money to be thrown around. In the meantime, whatever money that is being tossed in this direction is not going toward weapon development but research which will almost certainly never culminate in weapon development (at least of the nature of a black hole). It's a fantasy, kinda like that Darpa project to predict future events by a stock market trading potential outcomes.
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post #78 of 85
11/19/04 at 2:49am
This could be the most entertaining thread I have ever read on this board. Honestly. Guys come on....
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post #79 of 85
11/19/04 at 5:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Warren
I'll bite the bullet on the PhD comment. It was directed at ALIENinfluence.

I'm not interested in defending myself against absurd claims of inverse snobbery; you're the one attacking people's motivations and credentials, while inserting "fx" chortles and grins, as if you own reason and everyone else has devolved into lunacy — and mearly pointing this out is enough to win argument.

As is, we've quite lost track of what was being discussed.
Yes, let's return to the discussion:

You were attempting to back up ALIEN's claim that the US Defence Department is involved with designing mini-Black Holes that will suck Moscow? Beijing? Boston (DIE PESKY DEMOCRATS!!!!)? into the hereafter.

Will you two be getting Agent Mulder to testify any time soon?

"The TRUTH is out there", or so I am told.

ROFLMAO!!
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post #80 of 85
11/19/04 at 5:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben (formally Ned Fats)
This could be the most entertaining thread I have ever read on this board. Honestly. Guys come on....
<grin>
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post #81 of 85
11/19/04 at 4:34pm
...wow...a couple of comments about a game that resulted in the cold war NOT ending...

And y'all just go OFF! wtf, m8?
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post #82 of 85
11/19/04 at 4:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuddL
If that wasn't his point, and it seems it wasn't, I couldn't tell.
Yeah, ALIEN's posts weren't that clear, and he'd long since been on the defensive for his initial — and insane — categorical claim, which he was trying to back away from. Hence his insulting retort.

My defense was pedantic (I was between classes and bored); but, after restating ALIEN's post in relatively plain english (he agreed with the interpretation), AO carried-on like the discussion hadn't strayed from the intial post. AO can be annoying.

I certainly don't believe that any government is actively trying to build such a silly weapon; however, I would not be terribly surprised if it was suddenly revealed that the US (or China or ... ) dropped 6 billion on the matter. Such is the absurdity of a global arms race.
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post #83 of 85
11/19/04 at 7:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Warren
Yeah, ALIEN's posts weren't that clear, and he'd long since been on the defensive for his initial — and insane — categorical claim, which he was trying to back away from. Hence his insulting retort.

My defense was pedantic (I was between classes and bored); but, after restating ALIEN's post in relatively plain english (he agreed with the interpretation), AO carried-on like the discussion hadn't strayed from the intial post. AO can be annoying.

I certainly don't believe that any government is actively trying to build such a silly weapon; however, I would not be terribly surprised if it was suddenly revealed that the US (or China or ... ) dropped 6 billion on the matter. Such is the absurdity of a global arms race.
It seems a lot of us are bored students. At any rate, I'm sorry for contributing to this misunderstanding, and I hope we can stop talking about black hole bombs and get back to other trivial debates.
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post #84 of 85
11/19/04 at 10:28pm
No, let's bash Adam some more.

I can't be ”annoying" otherwise, and I get so few opportunities as a married man these days. <grin>
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post #85 of 85
11/20/04 at 7:29pm
See, if I was a chronotrooper, this could all be cleared up so easily...Erase the entire thread from ever having existed!
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