Declaration of Independence banned in California school

We don't know the full story. Not allowing a teacher to show his students parts of the Declaration & the other materials sounds ludicrous in itself, but this sounds like it could just be a principal playing it safe. The teacher could be a religious fanatic, and she's just taking precautions before a parent complains about their student being taught religion.

That may not be the case, of course. While I'm a serious advocate for the separation of church & state, and things like the whole 'creationism should be taught' frightens the hell out of me, I think some cases are reaching a bit too far. The idea of God and religion, whether you believe in it or not, is something that exists in our culture, and it is a part of history.

So like I said, it all depends on what kind of guy the teacher is. If he's fanatical, it's probably a good idea to keep him away from anything referencing God. If he's just a good teacher that wants to give his students a full view on everything, then it's no different than teaching about Hitler- just because you discuss the man and his views, doesn't mean you're advocating genocide.

You know, I'd say that it's getting to be ridiculus, but it's not, it is ridiculus. I might be mistaken, but the whole separation of church and state only exists in order to keep the government from being controlled by the church, like in 16th century England. It does not exist to forbid the use of the word God in schools, court houses, etc. If we went by the word of some people now our own constitution and declaration of independence are unconstitutional, it's insane. If you don't agree with a religion, don't try to block it from everyone else's eyes, just ignore it.

I know what I'm trying to say, I'm just can't get it across clearly right now.

That'll show them pesky traitors Jefferson, Franklin, Madison, Adams and Washington!

While I'm definately an advocate for the separation between church and state, this doesn't make any sense. Presenting historical documents that refer to an religious diety in a classroom isn't advocating that religion, nor is it an attempt to persuade students to believe in that religion. Thomas Jefferson made reference to a god he believed in. Banning the Declaration of Independence because of that just doesn't make sense to me...

as mentioned before, the way the teacher taught this should be taken into account, but that doesn't change the fact that referrences to God are scattered throughout these documents as well as the nation's past. I agree that the amendment is to keep one religion from assuming control of the government, not to prevent any mention of religion by a state worker...notice though that nobody gets fired for being a buhddist? I wonder when somebody will sue the government for putting the phrase "in God we trust" on our money...

It seems that just the word "God" in itself is some sort of bane to the world at large.

Perhaps people have just become disenfranchised with God because they feel their prayers failed in a specific situation, or maybe the majority of new agers are disgusted with the things done in God's name that they have just linked the word to organized religion and therefore believe that God still symbolizes the hatred, barbarism and supremacy that our forefathers employed in His name in post 1492 journeys to the New World. Perhaps by erasing the word "God" from our vocabulary, we also erase our past track records of violence and bloodshed committed in His name. Just some thoughts on top of the fact that there are actually those who don't really believe because they were never taught (either by their parents' choice or for some other specific reason.)

I don't see any particular "pushing" of religion on people when they mention God, any more than I see a flag of hatred when some southern states still fly the Confedarate flag. It's HISTORY, for fuck's sake.

Nobody's banning the Declaration of Independence.

http://www.sanmateocountytimes.com/S...556644,00.html

You guys are talking like the teacher has been forbidden from mentioning that your dead white guys were religious. Personally, I don't see the relevance of what the guy wants to hand out to his students. Maybe the principal who gave them the heave-ho doesn't either.

The attorneys crying 'Censorship!' are the ADF.

ADF's Founders:

Bill Bright, founder of Campus Crusade for Christ

Larry Burkett, founder of Christian Financial Concepts

Rev. James Dobson, founder of Focus on the Family

Rev. D. James Kennedy, founder of Coral Ridge Ministries

Marlin Maddoux, President of International Christian Media

Don Wildmon, founder of American Family Association
(And 25+ other ministries)

ADF's mission:

The Alliance Defense Fund is a servant organization that provides the resources that will keep the door open for the spread of the Gospel through the legal defense and advocacy of religious freedom, the sanctity of human life, and traditional family values.

This has nothing to do with freedom of speech and everything to do with We Want Our Way.

Ah, there goes the liberal media again. Taking something like "banning quote-mined excerpts from the Declaration of Independence amongst other propaganda" and turning the headline into "Declaration of Independence Banned at Calif School".

Haven't you heard? It's been revoked:

MEMORANDUM
Home Office
Direct Communications Unit
7th Floor
50 Queen Anne's Gate
London
SW1H 9AT


TO: The Citizens of the United States of America

RE: Revocation of your Independence


In the light of your failure to elect a proper President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective today. Her Sovereign Majesty Queen
Elizabeth II will resume monarchial duties over all states, commonwealths and other territories. Except Utah, which she does not fancy. Your new prime minister (The Right Honourable Tony Blair, MP
for the 97.85% of you who have until now been unaware that there is a world outside your borders) will appoint a minister for America without the need for further elections. Congress and the Senate will
be disbanded. A questionnaire will be circulated next year to determine whether any of you noticed. To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect:

1. You should look up "revocation" in the Oxford English Dictionary. Then look up "aluminium". Check the pronunciation guide. You will be amazed at just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it. The letter
'U' will be reinstated in words such as 'favour' and 'neighbour', skipping the letter 'U' is nothing more than laziness on your part. Likewise, you will learn to spell 'doughnut' without skipping half the letters. You will end your love affair with the letter 'Z' (pronounced 'zed' not 'zee') and the suffix "ize" will be replaced by the suffix "ise". You will learn that the suffix 'burgh is pronounced 'burra' e.g. Edinburgh. You are welcome to respell Pittsburgh as 'Pittsberg' if you can't cope with correct pronunciation. Generally, you should raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. Look up "vocabulary". Using the same twenty seven words interspersed with filler noises such as "like" and "you know" is an unacceptable and inefficient form of
communication. Look up "interspersed". There will be no more 'bleeps' in the Jerry Springer show. If you're not old enough to cope with bad language then you shouldn't have chat shows. When you learn to develop your vocabulary then you won't have to use bad language as often.

2. There is no such thing as "US English". We will let Microsoft know on your behalf. The Microsoft spell-checker will be adjusted to take account of the reinstated letter 'u' and the elimination of "-ize".

3. You should learn to distinguish the English and Australian accents. It really isn't that hard. English accents are not limited to Cockney, upper-class twit or Mancunian (Daphne in Frasier). You will also have
to learn how to understand regional accents? Scottish dramas such as "Taggart" will no longer be broadcast with subtitles. While we're talking about regions, you must learn that there is no such place as Devonshire in England. The name of the county is "Devon". If you persist in calling it Devonshire, all American States will become "shires" e.g. Texasshire, Floridashire, Louisianashire.

4. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as the good guys. Hollywood will be required to cast English actors to play English characters. British sit-coms such as "Men Behaving Badly? or
"Red Dwarf" will not be re-cast and watered down for a wishy-washy American audience who can't cope with the humour of occasional political incorrectness.

5. You should relearn your original national anthem, "God Save The Queen", but only after fully carrying out task 1. We would not want you to get confused and give up half way through.

6. You should stop playing American "football". There is only one kind of football. What you refer to as American "football" is not a very good game. The 2.15% of you who are aware that there is a world outside your borders may have noticed that no one else plays "American" football. You will no longer be allowed to play it, and should instead play proper football. Initially, it would be best if you played with the girls. It is a
difficult game. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which is similar to American "football", but does not involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full
Kevlar body armour like nancies). We are hoping to get together at least a US rugby sevens side by 2005. You should stop playing baseball. It is not reasonable to host an event called the 'World Series' for a game which is not played outside of America. Since only 2.15% of you are aware that there is a world beyond your borders, your error is understandable. Instead of baseball, you will be allowed to play a girls' game called "rounders" which is baseball without fancy team strip, oversized gloves, collector cards or hotdogs.

7. You should declare war on Quebec and France, using nuclear weapons if they give you any merde. The 97.85% of you who were not aware that there is a world outside your borders should count yourselves lucky. The Russians have never been the bad guys. "Merde" is French for "$hit". You will no longer be allowed to own or carry guns. You will no longer be allowed to own or carry anything more dangerous in public than a vegetable peeler. Because we don't believe you are sensible enough to handle potentially dangerous items, you will require a permit if you wish to carry a vegetable peeler in public.

8. July 4th is no longer a public holiday. November 2nd will be a new national holiday, but only in England. It will be called "Indecisive Day".

9. All American cars are hereby banned. They are cr*p and it is for your own good. When we show you German cars, you will understand what we mean. All road intersections will be replaced with roundabouts. You will start driving on the left with immediate effect. At the same time, you will go metric with immediate effect and without the benefit of conversion tables. Roundabouts and metrication will help you understand
the British sense of humour.

10. You will learn to make real chips. Those things you call French fries are not real chips. Fries aren't even French; they are Belgian though 97.85% of you (including the guy who discovered fries while in
Europe) are not aware of a country called Belgium. Those things you insist on calling potato chips are properly called "crisps". Real chips are thick cut and fried in animal fat. The traditional accompaniment to chips is beer which should be served warm and flat. Waitresses will be trained to be more aggressive with customers.

11. As a sign of penance 5 grams of sea salt per cup will be added to all tea made within the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, this quantity to be doubled for tea made within the city of Boston itself.

12. The cold tasteless stuff you insist on calling beer is not actually beer at all, it is lager. From November 1st only proper British Bitter will be referred to as "beer", and European brews of known and accepted provenance will be referred to as "Lager". The substances formerly known as "American Beer" will henceforth be referred to as "Near-Frozen Knat's Urine", with the exception of the product of the American Budweiser company whose product will be referred to as "Weak Near-Frozen Knat's Urine". This will allow true Budweiser (as manufactured for the last 1000 years in Pilsen, Czech Republic) to be sold without risk of confusion.

13. From December 1st the UK will harmonise petrol (or "Gasoline" as you will be permitted to keep calling it until April 1st 2005) prices with the former USA. The UK will harmonise its prices to those of the former USA and the Former USA will, in return, adopt UK petrol prices (roughly $6/US gallon - get used to it).

14. You will learn to resolve personal issues without using guns, lawyers or therapists. The fact that you need so many lawyers and therapists shows that you're not adult enough to be independent. Guns
should only be handled by adults. If you're not adult enough to sort things out without suing someone or speaking to a therapist then you're not grown up enough to handle a gun.

15. Tax collectors from Her Majesty's Government will be with you shortly to ensure the acquisition of all revenues due (backdated to 1776).

Thank you for your cooperation.




Rt Hon David Blunkett
Home Secretary

"It's a fact of American history that our founders were religious men, and to hide this fact from young fifth-graders in the name of political correctness is outrageous and shameful," said Williams' attorney, Terry Thompson."

Wrong.Many of the founding fathers were deists or didn't consider themselves "Christian" at all.Just because you mention the word "God" in a document, doesn't mean you are refering to Christianity or the Christian god.

"I have examined all the known superstitions of the Word, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the world ...

The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind ... to filch wealth and power to themselves. [They], in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ. "
Thomas Jefferson

Accustom a people to believe that priests and clergy can forgive sins ... and you will have sins in abundance. I would not dare to dishonor my Creator's name by [attaching] it to this filthy book [the Bible].
Thomas Paine

The Founding Fathers were certainly spiritual men, but they were certainly not Christian. At least, not in a way that would sit comfortably with the sort of agenda pushed by the ADF.

Jefferson edited his own version of the New Testament because he didn't believe in miracles - including the resurrection.

Benjamin Franklin felt that Christ's teachings had been corrupted by the church, and had doubts as to the divinity of Christ.

John Adams said "the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion"

Thomas Paine said "I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church."

Somehow I doubt that the various Christian lobbyists behind the ADF are interested in encouraging children to explore that nook of American history.

All the above quotes come from here.

Do you think so? Could it be the other way around? Could it be that they try to justify their religious beliefs by pointing to the founders of the U.S., men who are held up as the end all and be all, and say "If John Adams said 'The Christian religion is above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue, equity and humanity' well, then it must be true."?

Let's not generalize here. A lot of the founding fathers were Christian, particularly Mr. Adams. A lot of them weren't. They came together to form a country in which state policy wasn't dictated by religion. That was seen pretty much universally as a good idea. At the time.

You have to remember how intertwined religion and politics have been in other "empires". Many, including the Romans, literally worshipped the emperor, and to not at least pay lip service to worshipping the gods of the state was considered treason (which is how those Christians got into trouble in the otherwise fairly religiously tolerant Roman Empire). In the British empire, which is what the fathers were trying to get away from, the King is the head of the church as well as the state. Anglicanism is practically "the worship of all things British" (my parents are Anglicans) with very little fire and brimstone involved. Anglicans are as likely to spend time lavishing praise on Shakespeare or Cromwell as they are Jesus.

Compared to all this, America was pretty radical and heretical in the eyes of the older nations. There's a long, proud tradition of secularism and atheism in America (Lincoln was an atheist, Teddy Roosevelt tried to get all mention of God off the currency and partly succeeded) but needless to say it doesn't get brought up very often these days.

Adams wasn't very religious.

Plenty of men who signed the Declaration were Christians, but not the ones we think of as the big guns. I think that early drafts of the document were not all that God oriented. I would look it up, but I'm at an internet cafe andcounting down the clock.

I always got the impression that Adams was the "religious one" among the "big guns", as you put it. I would like to see a breakdown, though of course it can be hard to say for sure on these kinds of things sometimes.

I hate to break it to you, but "In God We Trust" wasn't added to our money or the Pledge of Allegiance until the 1950's. It was done to show that we were better than those godless heathen Commies in the USSR.

And yes, i am well aware that it says "One nation under God" in the Pledge, not "in God we trust". Just fely I should state that before someone else.