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Will the Ukriane soon taste the sweet cluster bomb of freedom?

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBC News

Strike call fuels Ukraine tension

Yushchenko supporters say the vote has been rigged
Ukraine's opposition is stepping up its campaign to overturn the disputed presidential poll, launching a general strike to try to paralyse the country.
Opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko called for the stoppage after election officials declared Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych the winner.

Thousands of opposition supporters are protesting for a fourth day in sub-zero cold in the capital, Kiev.

Former Polish President Lech Walesa says he is going to Kiev to help.

Legal challenge


Mr Yushchenko's supporters say they intend to go to the Ukrainian supreme court on Thursday to begin the process of trying to get the election result overturned.

Click here to see a regional breakdown of the official results
Both sides earlier warned of a civil conflict.

The US has said it "cannot accept" Sunday's poll result as legitimate.

DISPUTED ELECTION

Official result:
Yanukovych : 49.46%
Yushchenko: 46.61%
Western observers report:
Abuse of state resources and "overt media bias" in favour of Mr Yanukovych
State workers pressured to give absentee voting certificate to their superiors
Intimidation reported at some polling stations
Suspiciously high turnout in two pro-government regions


Monitors criticise poll

Outgoing Ukrainian President Leonid Kuchma - who backs Mr Yanukovych - called on world leaders not to interfere, warning that civil war "could well become a reality at the present time".

In a bid to calm the tense situation, the European Union and Poland have sent envoys to Kiev.

"I got a call from the president of Ukraine, Viktor Yushchenko," Mr Walesa was quoted as saying. "I told him right away I am in solidarity with him, and I'm ready to go."

Mr Walesa and other figures of Poland's anti-communist resistance say they want to help Mr Yushchenko because they remember how much Western support helped them in the 1980s.

EU-Russia tensions

Ukraine's crisis is also set to dominate an EU-Russia summit at The Hague later on Thursday, after the two sides adopted strikingly different stances on the election.

The EU voiced dismay over the result, pointing to widespread reports of election abuses.

Earlier, Russian President Vladimir Putin rushed to congratulate Mr Yanukovych - even before the official result had been announced.

It is time for Ukrainian leaders to decide whether they are on the side of democracy or not


A number of pro-government supporters were also visible in the city for the first time in Wednesday, though eastern Ukraine saw pro-government rallies earlier in the week.


Riot police have been on stand-by since the demonstrations began, but there have been no reports of violence.

Ukraine's Central Electoral Commission on Wednesday declared Mr Yanukovych as president, saying he had won 49.46% of the vote against Mr Yushchenko's 46.61%.

However, several exit polls immediately after Sunday's voting suggested that Mr Yushchenko had a clear lead.

Shutting down Ukraine

The pro-Western Mr Yushchenko immediately rejected the commission's declaration as the "latest crime" of the Ukrainian authorities.


He warned a vast crowd of supporters in Kiev's central Independence Square that Ukraine was now on the brink of a "civil conflict".


The nationwide strike aims to shut factories, shops and schools and paralyse Ukraine's major transportation arteries.

Some analysts say the planned stoppage could further divide the country. Mr Yushchenko draws his support mainly from the predominantly Ukrainian-speaking western and central regions, while Mr Yanukovych's strength comes from the Russian-speaking heavily industrialised east.

Mr Yanukovych - who is backed by Russia - on Wednesday offered to hold talks with Mr Yushchenko.

"We must improve our lives and we will do it together - all of our citizens and myself as president of Ukraine," he said in a brief appearance on state television.

But the opposition camp said Mr Yushchenko would only negotiate with Mr Kuchma.

Washington's warning

In Washington, US Secretary of State Colin Powell said Ukraine was at a "critical moment" and had to decide whether it was on the side of democracy.


Pro-Yanukovych MPs celebrated the electoral commission's ruling

Mr Powell warned the government in Kiev of "consequences" for the US-Ukraine relationship.

But he added: "It's still not too late to find a solution which respects the will of the people."

The new head of the European Commission, Jose Manuel Barroso, also warned Ukraine there could be "consequences" for its relations with the European Union, unless there was a serious and independent review.

Western election observers and the Ukrainian opposition have reported thousands of voting irregularities, including a near 100% turnout in some pro-government strongholds.

Earlier, Mr Yushchenko said he was prepared to have a re-run of the vote if it was carried out by "honest" officials.

First we take Baghdad, then we take the Ukraine.

So what does all of this mean, could the unthinkable happen and the US go to war with a muslim country in the name of democracy and freedom. Or is the US just rattling its sabre in an attempt to trigger reelections.
post #2 of 13
This is a non-starter. Ukraine is backed by Russia which, despite being a somewhat stunted superpower, still retains enough nuclear warheads to blast the earth out of its orbit.

Even if Russia didn't object (which it would), there's no way to launch operation Ukrainian Freedom without a base in a neighbouring country. And Poland, Belarus, Moldova, Hungary and Slovakia won't let US or any other forces on their soil for offensive purposes.
post #3 of 13
Thread Starter 
Ah well. At least that's one foreign war to not think about.
post #4 of 13
lol Raif you need to chill and eat some hash browns or something. AO clearly states why that won't happen. I think Ukraine might just implode on its own.
post #5 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Daywalker
lol Raif you need to chill and eat some hash browns or something. AO clearly states why that won't happen. I think Ukraine might just implode on its own.
I think that could well be the desirable outcome for both the EU and the US. The reversal of this election and the installation of a pro-West president could lead to some lucrative trade pipelines being opened up into what is a major food producing nation.

The disproportional and vociferous complaints (rigged elections occur in any number of countries - little gets said) from the West are, I suspect, a mischievous attempt to stoke up rebellion amongst the Ukrainian people.
post #6 of 13
Thread Starter 
Yeah maybe I jumped the gun a little.

I just thought.

1) Largely Muslim Populace

2) American's talking about democracy

3) Large oil fields supplying to Russia and Asia

Equals

Operation Ukraine Emancipation.

It will be quite interesting to see how this plays out especially if the re elections give power to a western friendly leader.
post #7 of 13
You forgot they have a shitload of Russian aresnal as well. Which of course would be our first reasoning to the public .
post #8 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiftel
Yeah maybe I jumped the gun a little.

I just thought.

1) Largely Muslim Populace
I was in Ukraine once and can tell you that there are not that many Muslims.
post #9 of 13
Ethnic groups:

Ukrainian 77.8%, Russian 17.3%, Belarusian 0.6%, Moldovan 0.5%, Crimean Tatar 0.5%, Bulgarian 0.4%, Hungarian 0.3%, Romanian 0.3%, Polish 0.3%, Jewish 0.2%, other 1.8% (2001)

Religions:

Ukrainian Orthodox - Moscow Patriarchate 26.5%, Ukrainian Orthodox - Kiev Patriarchate 20%, Ukrainian Catholic (Uniate) 13%, Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox, Protestant, Jewish

Source: The CIA
post #10 of 13
I just think it's great the people are actually fighting for their democracy, and taking to the streets to protest. I also thought it was richly funny when Colin Powell denounced the election as corrupt.
post #11 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Van Jones
I just think it's great the people are actually fighting for their democracy, and taking to the streets to protest. I also thought it was richly funny when Colin Powell denounced the election as corrupt.
Whilst the election might well have been "rigged", there is no evidence yet to prove that the pro-Russian candidate, Viktor Yanukovych, could have won regardless of interferance.

Of course, this is something of a secondary concern, but it's worth making the point anyway.
post #12 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentOrange
there is no evidence yet to prove that the pro-Russian candidate, Viktor Yanukovych, could have won regardless of interferance.
Yes, I agree.
post #13 of 13
So when this story first broke out, I was like "Hell yeah, show them Americans how its done!" and they eventually managed to do a re-election, and it looks like the contender is going to win. And in the middle of all this, we found out he WAS poisoned, and now a Ukraine minister is found shot dead.

Insanity I tells ya, this kind of shit is supposed to go down quietly, not in the media, Russia's losing their touch.
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