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LIFE AQUATIC - Post Release Discussion (SPOILERS)

post #1 of 44
12/16/04 at 11:05am
Thread Starter 
Post Release Discussion – Potentially Filled with Spoilers

If you are looking for a thread without spoilers (mostly) then please go here:
http://chud.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69973

It seems that people are starting to see the movie and I figured it was time for a thread with a full on discussion.

My wife and I caught the movie here in Atlanta thanks to Chud (Thanks, Nick!) and we both really enjoyed it. Rachel even walked out with one of the cool Life Aquatic caps that they were giving away. While the movie may not have been as quirky as Anderson’s previous movies it was still fun to watch. It may also be a bit more accessible to mainstream movie goers. I know that making movies for the unwashed masses may not appeal to some of you, but it is a fact of life.

The look of the movie was awfully good in my opinion. I like the boarder-line cartoony feel of a lot of things. There were always interesting things to see in the shots beyond the actors and the cutaway ship set was great to look at.

I thought the actors did a reasonably good job. As has been mentioned before, I thought Angelica Houston was a bit wooden, but I guess that is kind of her thing. Bill Murray was pretty good, but not better than “Lost in Translation”. My favorite was really the ship’s crew. None of them had a ton to say, but it was the little nods, shrugs and indifferent attitude from them that probably made me laugh the most.

There were tons of things in the movie that I enjoyed. Bill Murray in the fire fights with the pirates was good fun. I loved the three legged dog. The dude with the guitar was interesting, if a little distracting. I found my self spending a few seconds at each song trying to figure out what he was playing. Zissou’s dealings with his agent or whatever that dude was were always good for a laugh.

The only times I felt the movie was dragging was when Steve was dealing with his “son”. The pace of those sections just didn’t seem to flow with the rest of the movie as well as I had hoped.

Basically, I enjoyed the movie. I’m not sure it is “great” or how well it will standup against Anderson’s other films, but it as fun, made me laugh and I didn’t leave feeling like I had wasted my time.

Mike
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post #2 of 44
12/16/04 at 12:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by f86sabre
Basically, I enjoyed the movie. I’m not sure it is “great” or how well it will standup against Anderson’s other films, but it as fun, made me laugh and I didn’t leave feeling like I had wasted my time.
I'm definitely sure it was <i>NOT</i> great, actually. I don't think this movie is less quirky or more accessible than his other flicks either. Bottle Rocket is really a pretty straight-ahead story that doesn't take nearly as many stylistic risks as something like this or Rushmore. There are no titles or graphics over the screen in Bottle Rocket. There's a highly improbable robbery subplot, but nothing as unlikely or downright unbelieveable as most of what happens in Life Aquatic.

I just don't think the movie worked at glueing the humor and drama together. There's a life and death struggle and gunfight with pirates, but it's just played for a laugh. There's never any real drama or tension there because every bullet but one misses every target, and when the intern gets a machete to the shoulder, it was one of the biggest laughs of the night. It's hard to imagine the pirate stuff as anything more than a fantasy of Zissou, maybe harkening back to his earlier and more interesting days as an explorer and filmmaker as hinted at by the old theater cards he has to sign. So, in the world of over-the-top fantasy that Anderson sets up so well, it's hard to be invested in anything because it all seems as fake (and beautifully so) as that cross-section set of the ship.

I really enjoyed the visual style in Life Aquatic, and it had potential for laughs although most of the best gags were honestly in the trailer, but I thought it really failed as a dramatic character piece. Almost every character is a one-note sketch, even Zissou himself has nothing of a real character arc. In the end, I don't imagine this appealing to a more mainstream audience than anything else he's done, but then again, it's not like Wes Anderson is on the cult fringe in the first place.
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post #3 of 44
12/16/04 at 1:53pm
I heard it put best on a radio show the other day, regarding Wes Anderson's films. The guy doing the review said it's like Anderson builds an "intricate little doll house" where each of these characters is so perfect yet constrained by those same intricacies he's placed on them. I tend to agree although I've loved his past films, namely the characters and the dialogue. I'll catch some flack for this, but Anderson or at least his career track reminds me somewhat of Kevin Smith. Now, Anderson is immensely more talented with both the camera and the pen but his films are all so vaguely similar that it's like watching the same characters in different settings. It's tough to get away with for long and I guess it's a credit to Anderson that we continue to enjoy his movies. That said, the reviewer asked of Anderson's moviemaking, whether he was "in a groove or a rut?" Ultimately, I think he's going to step outside his little nest and show that he's as talented as alot of us think he is.
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post #4 of 44
12/16/04 at 2:36pm
I will say that I think Andrerson definitely has to change it up for his next film. The "love triangle" and "dysfunctional father-son-mentor" themes are a little tired at this point. I'd like to see him apply his sensibilities to other types of stories.
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post #5 of 44
12/19/04 at 2:19pm
Read about some cameraman who told Murray right to his face that he's a bastard, his words were apparently "You're a bastard. You are horrible to work with." This happened at a Q&A for Life Aquatic, in front of the director and the cast.

This crazy cameraman stated that he worked on Charlies Angels with Bill and that he had every right to say what he said.

What a fucking asshole.
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post #6 of 44
12/19/04 at 2:20pm
Well, to be perfectly honest, he's not the first...
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post #7 of 44
12/20/04 at 12:52pm
Yea, I don't think it's a big secret that Murray is a prick. Did you see how pissed he was at the Golden Globes or Oscars (whichever it was) when he didn't win? I still like him though.
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post #8 of 44
12/20/04 at 6:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweaterbydarwin
Yea, I don't think it's a big secret that Murray is a prick. Did you see how pissed he was at the Golden Globes or Oscars (whichever it was) when he didn't win? I still like him though
Heh, prior to that last post I didn't know Bill Murray was known as a prick, parent read the story in the papaer and told me that Bill Murray wasn't a really liked, guess I watch Ghostbusters too much. That's still in bad taste to crash a Question and Answer and do that*

Can't wait to catch this Christmas day, damn you slow release.......

*Except of course if it's Uwe Boll
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post #9 of 44
12/23/04 at 12:52pm
I'm been anxious to see this for months. Can't wait to go this next week.

I've listened to the soundtrack samples on itunes and can't wait to see how these portuguese versions of the Bowie songs are used in the movie. Very cool concept.

I know that Anderson's next film is going to be The Fantastic Mr. Fox, which should be quite a different direction/film for him.
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post #10 of 44
12/27/04 at 1:51am
I liked it quite a bit. I admit the story wasn't as strong as the World the film existed in, but I probably care more about that sort of thing anyway. It's certainly neither my favorite fillm of '04 or from Anderson, but I thought it was a great night at the movies. I'll see it again and probably pick up the DVD and soundtrack. I don't know about some of you, but I have to enjoy a film A LOT to do that.
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post #11 of 44
12/27/04 at 2:08pm
I enjoyed Life Aquatic, but found it really slight.

The comedy worked just fine, but the drama didn't have the weight it did in Rushmore and Tenenbaums. None of the relationships (Murray and Wilson, Wilson and Blanchett, Murray and Huston) resonated on anything more than a surface level, and I never even really got the impression that Zissou was all that passionate about his work (despite the ending that seemed to play that up). Even Wilson's death rang a little hollow.

Truly, the only scenes that really engaged me emotionally were Defoe's pleasure with Wilson's flag design and the final confrontation with the jaguar shark. The latter reveals this film to be "Moby Dick for Pussies," which I don't mean as a slight. Anderson's characters are all about their feelings and, occasionally compromise. Just as Blume and Fischer stop their one-upmanship contest in Rushmore, Zissou's Ahab-lite seems to decide that seeing the jaguar shark (and I love how literal the look of the shark is, after Zissou generally dismissively calls it "the jaguar shark - or whatever the hell it was") is enough - revenge isn't necessary. Even in the most action-packed Anderson movie, the conflict that drives the plot is dealt with non-aggressively.

So, overall, a few great dramatic scenes, but this boat is mainly powered on laughter (I cracked a smile on every Bowie cover), and it's reasonably successful in that regard. Anderson's most forgettable movie, but one that I'd still definitely watch again.
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post #12 of 44
12/29/04 at 12:49am
I really dug this film. I just really loved the character study of Zissou as a man at war with himself, in constant conflict over who he REALLY is and who he THINKS he is. Combined with the normal Anderson style (great cutting, awesome soundtrack, cute cinematography), this would definitely be in my top 10 if this weren't such an awesome year for movies.

However, I would like to see Anderson try to attempt something new and dangerous in his next films, both in terms of style and story.
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post #13 of 44
12/29/04 at 1:16am
I loved the scene where they all see the Jaguar Shark. What was the name of the song in that scene?
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post #14 of 44
12/29/04 at 1:51am
Quote:
I loved the scene where they all see the Jaguar Shark. What was the name of the song in that scene?
It's off Sigur Ros' first album, but I'll be damned if I can remember the name. Something Icelandic.
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post #15 of 44
12/29/04 at 1:53am
Staralur. They don't sing in Icelandic, it's all made up.
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post #16 of 44
12/29/04 at 3:55am
I enjoyed it, but I agree it lacked any sort of real punch. Most of the film felt on the verge of totally losing it with only the good preformances and Anderson's wry directorial charm helping to keep the film in the positive realm.

Anderson's obviously got some sort of father issues, but in this film the theme felt particularly weak. The relationship between Steve and Ned felt pretty phony, and when Ned ultimately perished there was a big "so what?" to the whole scene.

Too much of the film felt formulaic, which is contradictory to Anderson's patented whimsy. It's still an entertaining picture, but a step down from TENENBAUMS, which is a certified classic in my book.
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post #17 of 44
12/29/04 at 1:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Werbal_Kint
Anderson's obviously got some sort of father issues, but in this film the theme felt particularly weak. The relationship between Steve and Ned felt pretty phony, and when Ned ultimately perished there was a big "so what?" to the whole scene.
Ned biting it resonated with me not so much because of the lack of poignancy in the Steve-Ned relationship, but simply because Ned was such a likeable and well-developed character.
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post #18 of 44
12/29/04 at 1:57pm
My initial viewings of Rushmore and Royal Tennenbaums were ones of disappointment. But afterwards, I watched those films any chance I could. On repeat viewings Rushmore suddenly seemed heartfelt, and not forced (or over-hyped). Some of the things in Tennenbaums (suicide attempt as means of getting attention, crush loving crush, car wreck because it's time for the movie to end) still feel false but I don't care, I like the film and the things and people in it.

I was again disappointed by Life Aquatic, but familiarly, there are things I want to see again, which will lead eventually I imagine to my love of the entire movie. I was confused by scenes' tone, whether they were trying to be dramatic or comedic, but I think on a second viewing I wouldn't be, and melodramatic plot elements... I'll just see them as part of the landscape.

My favorite thing in contrast to previous films (and it must be really annoying, to have anything one ever does seen only in the context of one's past history) is that the character of Jane Winslett-Richardson [Miranda Richardson + Kate Winslet?] does not, after a point, consider Steve Zissou as a possible lover. It is her choice, and not his, and instead his wife returns onboard, unhappy and hostile. Winslett-Richardson picks Ned unceremoniously, and the main character has to accept this. In Rushmore, Max got rejected by Miss Cross but got to slowdance with her at the end, and organize her love life. In Royal Tennenbaums, Gwyneth Paltrow (who was going to play Winslett-Richardson at first) returns the affection for Luke Wilson, and only won't love him because he's technically her brother. Here, Murray's an asshole, and... someone responds to him as if he was an asshole. It feels very grown-up.
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post #19 of 44
12/29/04 at 1:57pm
Anyone know the piece of music that plays from the Murray's helmet from the scene shown in the trailer? I'm really addicted to that.
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post #20 of 44
12/29/04 at 3:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by L7 Productions
Anyone know the piece of music that plays from the Murray's helmet from the scene shown in the trailer? I'm really addicted to that.
That's the Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou theme. It's on the soundtrack in a number of forms, and the official website is supposed to have a free ringtone available soon.
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post #21 of 44
12/29/04 at 3:31pm
". Most of the film felt on the verge of totally losing it with only the good preformances and Anderson's wry directorial charm helping to keep the film in the positive realm."
And that might be the reason why "Aquatic" is not getting as good a critical reception as Anderson's previous films. A lot of people think his charm is wearing thin.
Anderson is 2 for 1 in my book....I liked "Rocket" and "Rushmore", did not care for "Tennanbuams" and
I have not seen "aquatic " yet.
But the problem with relaying on charm and quirkiness is that it wears thin after a while and you really, as a director, have to find something more. You can't keep playing the idiosyncritic card alone forever.
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post #22 of 44
12/29/04 at 8:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daryl Zero
That's the Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou theme. It's on the soundtrack in a number of forms, and the official website is supposed to have a free ringtone available soon.
Awesome. I have yet to see the film, and this makes me happy. I specifically liked the one played in the trailer, like it was playing through the headset.
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post #23 of 44
12/30/04 at 1:54am
Haven't seen the movie yet, but I picked up the soundtrack last week and it's fucking fantastic.

Mark Mothersbaugh rules!
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post #24 of 44
12/30/04 at 7:56pm
A fantastic film an all ends. Will see this over and over again. Much better than Royal.
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post #25 of 44
12/31/04 at 1:11am
It's a slight change of pace from the previous films of Anderson but I enjoyed it overall. It doesn't raise any eyebrows as per subject matter nor does it try anything "new" per se but it works. The performances were great, with a big nod to Willem Dafoe's character ("Thanks...thanks a lot for not picking me.") and, of course, Bill Murray. Cate Blanchett will always be solid gold in any movie she plays in, although this performance isn't on the same level as Katherine Hepburn Cate in The Aviator. I found Owen Wilson to be slightly scaled back in this film as the son, and the death scene just didn't feel right to me - almost forced. The quasi-love triangle and father-son elements needed more development. The rest of the story holds up though, especially the Assualt on Ping Island. The small nuances, like the interns and the crew, also add to the atmosphere of the film. As usual, the music is excellent (Seu Jorge's interpretations of David Bowie songs for example) and the style, from the Leopard Shark to the oceon reefs, brings on a certain quirky element.
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post #26 of 44
1/9/05 at 12:50am
Checked it out today as my movie journal will tell you.

I didn't really get into Rushmore but I really loved Tenenbaums, I'd place Life Aqautic with Tennenbaums, I really dug the characters and their interaction with one another but as some already said I found Wilsons death scene somewhat forced [He drags Murray into the air to look and then crashes the copter] bit other than that I very much dug the gunfights, the cutaway ship, the long takes that show the set, as well as Blanchett, she was really great in Aviator but I liked her slightly more in this. Liked the end credit bit with him walking along the pier, reminds me of Buckaroo Banzais closing credit scene, which is apprently the inspiration for it, at least the IMDB trivia page says so.
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post #27 of 44
1/9/05 at 4:09am
Well, this I feel is another Wes movie that with some age will become better and better

And damn is that posh heightned british accent Cate used make her even more appealing, especially as I saw the Aviator immediately after

Rushmore to me is still better but I put this above Royal
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post #28 of 44
1/10/05 at 7:59am
Picked up the soundtrack today, great tunes, especially Search and Destroy, the bits of score, the Bowie Covers and the last two tracks.....

Must...see...movie again.....
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post #29 of 44
1/11/05 at 2:57am
Fuck. They wired it.
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post #30 of 44
1/11/05 at 5:06am
That will certainly make the 10 Best Fucks of the Year list.
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post #31 of 44
1/14/05 at 12:25am
I'm apparently in the vast minority, but I found it better than Rushmore and probably on par with Tenenbaums. I don't really know why. I think it's because it took my favorite characters from those two films (Bill Murray's, incidentally) and made an entire movie around him. Probably in my top four or five of the year.
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post #32 of 44
1/19/05 at 1:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sphinx always gets the sake
That will certainly make the 10 Best Fucks of the Year list.
Huh?

Loved the movie, even if it is more of the same from Anderson. Is that guy singing the Bowie songs in Portugese? I originally thought it was Italian (since they were docking in Italy when he sang the first one), but my friend insisted it was French. Anyway, his rendition of "Rebel, Rebel" is about my favorite thing on earth right now.
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post #33 of 44
1/19/05 at 11:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke, Raol
Huh?

Loved the movie, even if it is more of the same from Anderson. Is that guy singing the Bowie songs in Portugese?
Yup, just checked the albums booklet, Wes says it's Portugese
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post #34 of 44
1/20/05 at 2:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveB
I enjoyed Life Aquatic, but found it really slight.

The comedy worked just fine, but the drama didn't have the weight it did in Rushmore and Tenenbaums. None of the relationships (Murray and Wilson, Wilson and Blanchett, Murray and Huston) resonated on anything more than a surface level, and I never even really got the impression that Zissou was all that passionate about his work (despite the ending that seemed to play that up). Even Wilson's death rang a little hollow.
Ditto. I liked the movie well enough, but I never felt connected to the characters.

I have to say DeFoe's character was awesome. I really enjoyed his scenes. And I loved the guitar player singing David Bowie songs in Portuguese. I plan on picking up the soundtrack just for that.
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post #35 of 44
3/12/05 at 10:35am
I felt Life Aquatic was on a par with Anderson's other films (haven't seen Bottle Rocket), with the same qualities and the same failings - all his films start off great, have unusual and interesting characters in it, have a real comic quality to them and often an exhilarating comic-book style use of music, costumes and colour; for me at least his films also completely fall apart towards the end by wallowing in gooey cheesiness and soap-like "moments" between the main characters - the emotions is just overdone and cliched (everyone touching Zissou in the sub for example). So Life Aquatic is yet another great two-thirds of a film, but it's a shame to come out of it wondering how much more it could have been if it hadn't tried so hard to be emotionnal as well as funny and original.
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post #36 of 44
3/18/05 at 12:01pm
I feel like Andersons movies usually require a second viewing to fully appreciate, but I really feel like this one didn't measure up Tennenbaums and Rushmore.
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post #37 of 44
5/14/06 at 9:32am
Just watched it last night. Absolutley adored the way that stop motion was used to create those incredible looking sea creatures. The general plot of the film seemed a lot more slight than Tenebaums or Rushmore but it had a lot of stronger little moments, like Zissou putting the seahorse into his champange flute at the start. The jaguar shark was just incredible to look at and I really liked Claus, it was nice to see Willem Dafoe play a character who wasn't slimy/batshit crazy.

It's probably the most niche of the Anderson's films, you have to really buy into the world to appreciate what is going on but to be honest I think I prefer it to his other films.

I also loved the shots where the camera was essentially going through the walls of the ship as it followed characters around, I'm gonna guess they actually built a huge ship set to get that shot to work.
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post #38 of 44
5/14/06 at 11:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall
I really liked Claus, it was nice to see Willem Dafoe play a character who wasn't slimy/batshit crazy.
You didn't think Klaus was batshit crazy?
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post #39 of 44
5/14/06 at 12:20pm
On the Dafoe scale of craziness, Klaus was almost normal. Pathetic kinda, batshit crazy not so much. I liked Klaus but he wasn't bouncing off the walls which was a departure for Dafoe.
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post #40 of 44
5/14/06 at 2:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall
I also loved the shots where the camera was essentially going through the walls of the ship as it followed characters around, I'm gonna guess they actually built a huge ship set to get that shot to work.
Yes, check out the special features.
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post #41 of 44
5/14/06 at 9:30pm
the worst of wes anderson is still pretty damn good storytelling.

i wish owen wilson would become unpopular again so he could write and star in wes' movie over and over. sigh.
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post #42 of 44
5/14/06 at 9:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCynic
the worst of wes anderson is still pretty damn good storytelling.

i wish owen wilson would become unpopular again so he could write and star in wes' movie over and over. sigh.
With the amount of movies the Wilson's are going to be in this summer, I think that's not so far-fetched an idea, if they end up being over-exposed.
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post #43 of 44
11/9/06 at 7:38pm
On second viewing the film perhaps gets even better, the one thing I always disliked about the film is kinda resolved by the fact that it is setup throughout the film. When I first saw the Life Aquatic I fought Ned's death had very little impact and seemed utterly out of the blue, upon rewatching the film the entire tone of the film is gearing towards the fact that Zissou is going to lose someone on this trip, they even highlight the helicopter as being faulty within the first 30 minutes. I think almost all of Wes Anderson films are growers, when I first saw Tenenbaums I just appreciated it. The more I watched it the more my fondness for the film grew until I would now put it in my top ten movies of all time. The same thing seems to be happening with the Life Aqautic.
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post #44 of 44
11/9/06 at 8:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall
On second viewing the film perhaps gets even better, the one thing I always disliked about the film is kinda resolved by the fact that it is setup throughout the film. When I first saw the Life Aquatic I fought Ned's death had very little impact and seemed utterly out of the blue, upon rewatching the film the entire tone of the film is gearing towards the fact that Zissou is going to lose someone on this trip, they even highlight the helicopter as being faulty within the first 30 minutes. I think almost all of Wes Anderson films are growers, when I first saw Tenenbaums I just appreciated it. The more I watched it the more my fondness for the film grew until I would now put it in my top ten movies of all time. The same thing seems to be happening with the Life Aqautic.

Also the fact that Zissou is a blatant Cousteau ripe off. Ned and Cousteau son both die in air crashes. Although the story seem a bit flat to me, and the Tenenbaums is just a better film.
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