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Battle Royale - Page 2

post #51 of 157
Which you thought was lame.

Ergo, you missed the point.

Ergo, you may not have got it.
post #52 of 157
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post #53 of 157
But you didn't get the movie because you have no understanding of what it's about. It'd be like enjoying the violence in a holocaust film.
post #54 of 157
Not enough awesome kills in SCHINDLER'S LIST. I heard they killed 6 million Jews, but you only see like a couple dozen snuff it in the movie.
post #55 of 157
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post #56 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva
If I had know it'd be a holocaust film I wouldn't have seen it. My expectations of what it would be were different from what it actually was.

Seriously, you guys are so fucking elitist its kinda sad and pathetic. People enjoy movies for different reasons and no one reason is better than any other. Just because you think a movie is a masterpiece does not make it so.

I stand by my original post. I find the movie amusing at best, regardless of its social commentary.
Not to get entirely on the already-quite-occupied Diva-bashing train, but the social commentary is the point. It's one thing to not expect a social commentary before watching, but once it became clear to you that Battle Royale was social commentary (and I assume you acknowledge this, right?), to willingly refuse to accept it as such and then fault it for not living up to your expectations as a balls-out action movie... well, that's pretty goofy.
post #57 of 157
You are criticizing something not for what it is, but for what you wanted it to be. It's like complaing that a chair makes a bad car.
post #58 of 157
I'm really embarrassed. I need to see this film.
post #59 of 157
also understand at the time this movie was released there were a rash of high school age kids killing themsleves off in Japan. this movie and others like it, Suicide Circle and Blue Spring, were commentaries on a society which brought kids to that end. Battle Royale, and Suicide Circle, is a gross exageration of that situation but it still holds as a documentation of a time and place in Japanese society where a filmmaker would make such a film.
post #60 of 157
Woo, I feel better now. I thought I was the only one who hasn't seen this film. I am embarrassed with Rudler.
post #61 of 157
I mean, I'm not as embarrassed as Diva, but I'm pretty embarrassed.
post #62 of 157
post #63 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Daywalker
I'm on the side of the geeks who think she's hot.



Latent schoolgirl fantasy that I have. Nothing too shocking really. Now I am definitely looking forward to seeing this movie!
post #64 of 157
Its a small role but a good one. You'll notice my reply in that thread.
post #65 of 157
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post #66 of 157
Don't bother with the Director's Cut. Its only got some extra non-island footage edited back in (plus another disc of bonus features.) I saw the theatrical release in an actual US theater and it isn't missing anything important. The theatrical release has a better transfer, and is generally more affordable on eBay.
post #67 of 157
There are quite a few different versions of this out there, especially for us region free, PAL to NTSC dvd player owning mofos.

Personally, if you have a region free player I would recommend the Tartan region 0 NTSC disc...theatrical cut, excellent widescreen transfer, great 5.1 track (no DTS though). I just finished reviewing it for Love and Bullets and my review should be up soon. I haven't seen the 'directors cut' but the theatrical cut feels fully fleshed out and I didn't feel short changed at all.

Here are some links to a couple of comparisons.

DVD Beaver Comparison

DVD Compare Comparison
post #68 of 157
And to take part in the discussion once again, I have to say that I strongly disagree with letting your expectations guide you when it comes to forming an opinion about a film.

A film should optimally be viewed with a 'clean slate' expectation wise. That may be kind of utopian, and I would guess as an ideal that would be virtually impossible, but expectation should have no bearing on what a film really is.

If I've learned anything, it is to try my darndest to leave my expectations at the door and take a film in as openly as possible.
post #69 of 157
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post #70 of 157
You're dismissing something you don't understand, of course people are going to be annoyed.
post #71 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Straxboy - An Anthony Hickox Film
"Conflict between generations popping up as a big theme"

"Or possibly the crux of the whole beautiful facist-leaning comedy of the piece. The reason they're wanted for murder is simple: they broke the rules. There is nothing greater, in a non-figurative sense, than that. this is a picture of absolutes, even if you believe you've found a way out..."


"'You can do it' isn't cheesy. It's an aching plea for optimism in a child from an adult to save himself (in the classroom, in the game should he be picked, in life). Adults were in favour of the BR Act in the fist place, don't forget. The rift is incalculable, obviously (or not obviously, since I hope everyone saw it as a none too far fetched hyperbole). It's aching."

"And the 'secret to the smile' at the end -- Fukasaku pulled Douglas Sirk into the ring with Verhoeven and created magic."
And this, among so many other things, is why I love you Giles.

This is a movie that tortures. If it doesn't make you sad than you don't have a heart. If you think it's just gore/exploitation, you either need to see it again with a clear head or you're too thick to see it as anything else.

Diva--you did not get this film. Not even a little. Hate to play dogpile, but the way I figure it - since all of this derision is coming from the Devin camp (never could figure out why you two didn't just get it over with and FUCK, fer chrissakes), you're not gonna' take it seriously. But take it seriously. 'Cause it's really, really true.

You can comfort yourself with the knowledge that your thread gave way to some breathtaking posts - like Straxy's above - that make me remember why I spent so much time here, and why I loved it so much.

Being holed up with a few people who "get it" - whatever "it" may be - makes being perpetually surrounded by those who don't just a little easier to bear.

Was that about CHUD, the movie, life, or all of the above? The world may never know.

But I think I've found the secret to Andre' Dellamorte's last smile...

RUN!
post #72 of 157
This thread makes me sad. You have more people talking about versions of the movie available and what weapons people used to kill each other than anything significant about the film. At least Straxboy tried to communicate it's goodness in terms everyone could understand. Diva, you should stop watching TV for a month, then go watch it again when you have gained your sensitivity back.
post #73 of 157
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post #74 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva
This movie never pulled me into the main story. We were told there was a rift between kids and adults and there was a small flashback to Kitano getting slashed in class, but that wasn't enough to make me really feel the conflict. I do think BR a far-fetched idea as adults are essentially committing mass suicide by killing off all the children. It is obviously a bleak solution and it is tragic in its own right, but what kept me interested in the film was the game itself and how the kids negotiated within it. And since I had no idea who any of the kids were nor their relationships to each other, I really didn't care who survived and who didn't. The father flashback was fine once (even twice), but what was cheesy to me was the third time. It ached of overkill. It's similar to my complaints with the ending of Signs. Beating me over the head with flashbacks isn't going to make the scene more powerful to me, its going to annoy the fuck out of me. I've already said I'd see the movie again with a more open mind, but people continually saying I didn't get it isn't gonna make me enjoy it any more or less than I already do.
Not getting it is one thing, but not paying attention is something else. One bad class is chosen at random out of a group of the worst classes to participate in BR as a deterent for the millions of other kids who may or may not be thinking of being bad. The first five minutes explains this, or at least the rational behind the BR act. The adults are not committing suicide, they are acting out of desperation because things are bleak, there are way more kids than adults, and this is the most creative way the adults can come up with to solve the problem of the kids. The significane of the film stating that the national unemployment rate in Japan is 15% isn't just flavour text, it's every politician's nightmare in this film. If the kids have no hope of work, what's the motivation to be good in the normally ultra-competitive schooling systems? If you could just pull yourself out of thinking like you're watching a TV show for 5 seconds and try to imagine a world where this is considered a viable option, I think you may actually experience something wonderful and terrible.
post #75 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva
but people continually saying I didn't get it isn't gonna make me enjoy it any more or less than I already do.
I think the main goal of people bitching at you for not getting something is to get you to either try again and hopefully figure it out (and I think another element is that the social commentary seems so pronounced that to miss it is relatively amazing), or to just shame you into shutting up.
post #76 of 157
Syntax notwithstanding, the post above (the "Hentai" kid's, not Dre's - though come to think of it...) is pretty "on". You do know how school in Japan works, right? You do know that you can't go beyond the equivalent of secondary school here without the grades, right? And there's not enough room for everyone, and so kids LITERALLY kill themselves over the pressure. The socio-economic reality in Japan right now is very similar to our Reagan-era realization that going to college and getting good grades didn't mean you'd get a decent job.

So the film theorizes that the youth populace fucks the system - that most of them don't even bother to compete anymore. And so to thin the herd and show who's boss, the Government creates the BR Act.

Unfortunately, the BR class pool is not comprised of shit students - it's done as a RANDOM lottery, as Beat explains at the beginning.

That the students don't know what the fuck the BR Act is speaks to how little they care about the world around them - it's like being eighteen years old and working class and not knowing or caring that they've reinstated the DRAFT.

This isn't gonna' work. This is like trying to explain Aronofsky's Pi to a kite-clad drunk chick who says seeing Pretty Woman changed her life.
post #77 of 157
Which I have. And she did.

But she was really foxy and I thought she'd make a great Catherine...
post #78 of 157
Jesus, this thread turned into a monster. I can understand where Diva maybe coming from, on the surface all that you see is the gore and the killing's, it's only when you look slightly deeper, the film takes on more meaning. I'm not bashing Diva, the film was primarily marketed on a controversial idea. The idea of kids running around hacking each other up and generally causing havoc is one of the reasons why this movie caused such an uproar. Fukusaku took that approach and buried social critiscism inside, some can appreciate it, some can't and feel it's just overblown and melodramatic.

Asian cinema has a history has a history of embracing melodrama that the US will never understand or maybe that's just Hong Kong, I don't think Japan is quite as guilty. This whole movie plays out like high school drama taken to the extreme, you have the kids getting all melodramatic, settling perceived grudges, you stole my boyfriend, the chance of getting revenge on classmates who bullied you in school, telling someone you love them before dying, it's all high school bullshit, everyone's been there, that's why this film isn't just one big killing spree. Behind that though, is another idea, as someone has previously stated that a government's solution to out of control kids who are pushed to excel, excel, excel at the point of going insane and when you couple that with an economy that's beyond fucked you have a recipe for this kind of action being introduced. It's like Kitano's final scene where he answer's the mobile after being shot up by an uzi, he tells his daughter to shove it because he's tired of her bitching, he finally gave up, snapped and decided to condemn his class to Battle Royale.

On a larger critique, Fukusaku took aim at the japanese school system which is intensely competitive, moreso for guys so when unemployment is that bad then the men simply cannot handle it and kill themselves like the father because of his inability to take care of his kid is just unbearable for him, that was his final message, keep going because he couldn't go any further, he wanted his kid avoid his father's shame.

So, in essence, the adults and kids have it bad due to the state of things in japan, the kids are out of control because they're bored and just don't give a fuck and the adults have given up trying to help.
post #79 of 157
Just to switch subjects off of Diva-Bashing, going back to the weapons the kids where given.

Didn't one of them have a frying pan? I would have been so pissed had I got that one. Social Commentarily speaking, it refecks society's need to eat, and therefore even our desire to consume mass quantities. Ney, our lives are spent shoveling gruel down our pie-holes and it just renforces our gluttinous natures. I think there's really something they are trying to say with that frying pan. Devin, what do you think?
post #80 of 157
No, it was just inspired lunacy, some got cool weapons, some didn't. Some were fucked from the starting fate, some made the best out of what they had, other's just killed and stole someone else's weapon as is the way of society.
post #81 of 157
I assume that was a flippant aside, Momatoro, but yes, I suspect there is some mild thesis inherent on the subject of the distribution of weapons for the contest, and the gross irony conveyed in the deployment of a utensil primarily associated with "living" (or at least sustaining life, eating or whatever) and them having to be used against other utensils associated with "dying".

HAMonster, this picture moves. And moves me. And you and Dre and others. Which explains and reassures so very much. Which isn't elitist as it numbers a great many. So I figure it's common sense.
post #82 of 157
And interesting and insightful review at midnighteye. Also has an interview with Fukasaku there as well for those interested.

http://www.midnighteye.com/reviews/battroyl.shtml
post #83 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Animal Machine
Syntax notwithstanding, the post above (the "Hentai" kid's, not Dre's - though come to think of it...) is pretty "on". You do know how school in Japan works, right? You do know that you can't go beyond the equivalent of secondary school here without the grades, right? And there's not enough room for everyone, and so kids LITERALLY kill themselves over the pressure. The socio-economic reality in Japan right now is very similar to our Reagan-era realization that going to college and getting good grades didn't mean you'd get a decent job.

So the film theorizes that the youth populace fucks the system - that most of them don't even bother to compete anymore. And so to thin the herd and show who's boss, the Government creates the BR Act.

Unfortunately, the BR class pool is not comprised of shit students - it's done as a RANDOM lottery, as Beat explains at the beginning.

That the students don't know what the fuck the BR Act is speaks to how little they care about the world around them - it's like being eighteen years old and working class and not knowing or caring that they've reinstated the DRAFT.

This isn't gonna' work. This is like trying to explain Aronofsky's Pi to a kite-clad drunk chick who says seeing Pretty Woman changed her life.
See this is where I was left with a feeling of ambiguity...I couldn't tell if the class was chosen 100% at random or if it was only from the worst classes. When I first saw this I asked people here about whether it was A or B and there seemed to be some confusion as well. Having it be just 100% random I think would make it even more of a grim film, as no matter what you did or how good you were you have the chance of being forced to go to the island. Do you remember the exact line? Shit, I should just really buy this on DVD and answer my own goddamn question...and hey, don't call me 'kid'! You know who I am and sadly I am older than you are. Junior.
post #84 of 157
I also thought the lottery was 100% random. I know Kitano states as an answer to the class that they were chosen by 'impartial lottery'. That does carry a larger dose of grim than just punishment for being the worst of the kids and that's how I took it.
post #85 of 157
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post #86 of 157
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post #87 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJ43
I also thought the lottery was 100% random. I know Kitano states as an answer to the class that they were chosen by 'impartial lottery'. That does carry a larger dose of grim than just punishment for being the worst of the kids and that's how I took it.
But it doesn't really work as an incentive for kids to behave if it's among all classes. I thought Kitano had reported or signed the class up for the lottery after being knifed by Nobu (was that the kid's name?).
post #88 of 157
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post #89 of 157
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post #90 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Harvey Cobblepot
But it doesn't really work as an incentive for kids to behave if it's among all classes. I thought Kitano had reported or signed the class up for the lottery after being knifed by Nobu (was that the kid's name?).

he volunteered to run the BR when he heard it was that class that had been chosed, because of the knife encounter.
post #91 of 157
Quote:
But it doesn't really work as an incentive for kids to behave if it's among all classes. I thought Kitano had reported or signed the class up for the lottery after being knifed by Nobu (was that the kid's name?).
You are right, it wouldn't be as strong an incentive if even if you were a 'good' class the BR act could have your class selected. To me, that wa a sign of the desperation of the adult world and how they basically 'gave up'.

It was Nobu that cut Kitano up in the beginning. I thought personally that Kitano had already 'signed his class up' prior to that as he already seemed pretty weary and resigned.

Quote:
They are killing 50 or so kids every 3 days. There will come a time when the kids are killed off and then the adults will realize there is no future because they will die off and there will be no one to replace them.
They aren't doing the BR thing every three days. Three days is how long the 'contest' takes. There is, I'm sure, a large amount of prep work, selecting the class, etc. I did not notice that it was specified how long the intervals were, but it wasn't just happening constantly every three days.

Quote:
Why should I know how the Japanese school system works? A good movie should give me all the elements I need to know within the film. If it can't then its bad storytelling.
I'm not trying to jump on the bandwagon bashing you here, I just disagree with that. A good film can provide any number of frameworks as far as backgrounds go. You can 'have it all spelled out for you' or it can leave it up to you to figure it all out or it can be somewhere in between. You don't necessarily need to know how the Japanese school system works to 'get' this movie, but it does help to strengthen the understanding of it. I personally assumed that most people knew about the pressures in the Japanese school system as it has gotten pretty good press over the years.
post #92 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva
Why should I know how the Japanese school system works? A good movie should give me all the elements I need to know within the film. If it can't then its bad storytelling.
It's a JAPANESE movie. Most American movies don't go out of their way to explain why every little US-centric thing is there, they just gloss over it because it's being marketed to Americans. It's the same thing here.

Expecting them to spell it out for you just because you don't know anything about Japan isn't just ignorant, it's insulting. And unfortunately what I've come to expect from most Western people who view Eastern movies.
post #93 of 157
See, it's all a Biblical allegory: Nanahara is John the Baptist, Kawada is Jesus, Kitano is Satan, Noriko is Mary Magdalene, Kiriyama is Pontius Pilate, Mitsuko is Judas, that scene where the chick gets food poisoning and the schoolgirls kill each other is The Last Supper...
post #94 of 157
I'd like to point out that there are a bunch of people in this thread who I never even HEARD OF calling you stupid, Sabrica.
post #95 of 157
Read the book. It's one of the best books I've read all year. I haven't seen the movie yet, but all the people that I know who've done both have preferred the book.
post #96 of 157
I gotta give it to you Diva, in face of evidence and facts, you hold your ground. iit's a very Republican way of life, and I salute you for getting me ready for 21st century America.
post #97 of 157
Quote:
Being good is one thing. Resorting to stabbing teachers is another. And yes, I know this concept as I live near Bed-Stuy. I see it every day in my neighborhood and this country. Why should I care any more about Japanese kids killing each other off than American kids killing each other off? Tragedy to me are things that are going on right now and no one is doing a thing to stop it. I'm not going to "ache" for an imaginary Battle Royale Act.
Which middle-class, pseudo-hip, willfully nonchalant air bubble do you live in exactly ? As Charlie so rightly said, quit being so purposefully myopic when watching films and try and contextualise your viewing rather than expecting every frame to kowtow to your Western existence. No wonder you get so little from some pictures. Don't/didn't you work in the non-profit sector or at least something with a social/humanitarian context ? And you can't bring yourself to empathise with such obvious arch-politicising as this ? Just a movie ? Nothing else ? Scary.
post #98 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckaroo Hentai
This thread makes me sad. You have more people talking about versions of the movie available and what weapons people used to kill each other than anything significant about the film. At least Straxboy tried to communicate it's goodness in terms everyone could understand. Diva, you should stop watching TV for a month, then go watch it again when you have gained your sensitivity back.
Well, I don't have a whole lot to say that hasn't been combed over already. I was just trying to point some people who hadn't seen BR in the right direction.

But I will add that part of the reason why the "message" of winning by not participating in the BR is diluted is that several innocent (= only engaging in self defense) people die in the movie. Maybe not to the extent of our main protagonists, but there are some good people who get gruesomely executed in the film. Not to mention the crazy girl who wins at the beginning. So its hard to really identify a solid message as described earlier in the thread.
post #99 of 157
I never could finish watching this. Perhaps I am a bit of a wuss, but what I saw bothered me that much. I don't even think it was the gore since I have a pretty strong stomach.
post #100 of 157
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