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THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK - Yay or Nay?

Poll Results: Empire - What Do YOU Think?

This is a multiple choice poll
  • 68% (71)
    Masterpiece
  • 25% (27)
    Pretty damn good
  • 4% (5)
    It's okay I guess
  • 0% (1)
    Suckage
104 Total Votes  
post #1 of 45
1/24/05 at 8:03pm
Thread Starter 
I keep seeing people who try to justify the quality of the prequels by saying 'none of the original SW were that good anyway.' As a huge fan of ESB, both as a SW fan and movie geek in general who thinks objectively (well, as objectively as I can) it's a masterpiece, I thought I'd get an overall gauge of what people think.
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post #2 of 45
1/24/05 at 8:08pm
Pretty damn good entertainment.
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post #3 of 45
1/24/05 at 8:13pm
It is the standard by which all other SW flicks -- not to mention sci-fi films in general -- are judged and pale in comparison.
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post #4 of 45
1/24/05 at 8:13pm
I just rewatched these movies since getting the dvd set a month ago. I would have to say that Empire is the best one out of all them so far. It just has the best character moments. Plus I love Han....he rocks
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post #5 of 45
1/24/05 at 8:15pm
I don't do polls...

But, for the record, I can definitely say "The Empire Strikes Back" is (the) shit!!

I hope I've made myself plain.
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post #6 of 45
1/24/05 at 8:15pm
Masterpiece.
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post #7 of 45
1/24/05 at 8:19pm
It is the one film that all the other episodes have to pay respect to!

Empire is brilliant and quite frankly the fact that Lucas had next to nothing to do with it beyond the plot shows!

The actors act, the themes are dark, the score is fantastic, the set pieces great and the sense of danger is finally injected in to the star wars saga.

It sounds obvious really but without Empire none of the other sequels would have existed and A New Hope would be consigned to the history books as a fantasy film with ground breaking effects, Empire put flesh on the bones of the saga and in turn made A New Hope better by its presence.... or to put it a better way, Empire is the film that made us expect more from Star Wars!
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post #8 of 45
1/24/05 at 8:33pm
Masterpiece.

It's amazing that ANH could be followed by such a perfect continuation of its story. It's like icing on the cake. Take all the characters from one movie, add love story, family secrets, and a little muppet, and you have the best sequel ever. (Apologies, GF2)

Now, about that Return of the Jedi poll...
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post #9 of 45
1/24/05 at 8:43pm
Masterpiece; and the only really great Star Wars movie. All the other films have great things about them, but Empire is the only one that's 99.9% great.
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post #10 of 45
1/24/05 at 8:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffnrock
Well, I'm glad somebody mentioned the fact that Lucas did not direct this one....I was going to bring it up, but I held off, 'cause, you know, I got a "rep" for trolling. So thanks for doing the dirty work Lee. I've said it a million times before, Lucas is just one of those creative types who does his best work when collaborating.
Well I'm new here so I know bupkis about your rep so no worries I'll take the Star Wars Fan Flack for ya

Yeah I agree that Lucas works best when others take his ideas and do the rest, which is probably why Clone Wars cartoons and Knights of the old republic games are probably the best examples of Star Wars around at the moment.

Its sad though that because of his lack of control over Empire he was more hands on with Jedi that resulted in Ewoks and billions of credits in super high tech imperial weaponry hardware being fucked over by a couple of logs and some bits of rope.

Kinda went down hill from there
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post #11 of 45
1/24/05 at 9:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffnrock
Welcome to the boards, Lee. This is a very cool place to hang out.
So I'm rapidly realising

Thanks for the welcome
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post #12 of 45
1/24/05 at 9:26pm
Great first act, better third act.

Second act weakens the whole. And I've never bought the Han and Leia romance as it's dipicted. He was into her at the finale of SW, she had no interest in him. ESB opens and they're bickering like a couple of ex-lovers, which they weren't.

Kasden hadn't shaken the Indy/Marion relationship in his Raiders work yet and it shows.

I like the film. But I do not consider it the best of the SW movies.
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post #13 of 45
1/24/05 at 9:38pm
I was 9-years-old when I first saw A New Hope, and you know what I said after Leia's "You needn't worry about your reward" line? 'She likes him, doesn't she?'
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post #14 of 45
1/24/05 at 9:40pm
You'd be wrong. Which is fine because when I was nine I thought Lando was they guy who sold Colt .45 on TV during the breaks on CHIPS.
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post #15 of 45
1/24/05 at 10:03pm
I say short of a masterpiece, but definitely the best of a good series. I think it really lived up to its potential.
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post #16 of 45
1/24/05 at 10:07pm
It's pretty good, it's just a shame the midiclorian idea has effectively killed off what I thought Yoda was talking about.
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post #17 of 45
1/24/05 at 10:10pm
Don't worry Van Jones, i'm sure there's a needlessly involved exposition scene in Episode 3 that will clear it all up.

Empire is the film it is least embarrassing to like.
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post #18 of 45
1/24/05 at 10:11pm
Thread Starter 
EMPIRE is so good that when watching it I forget the prequels ever existed.
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post #19 of 45
1/24/05 at 10:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Striding Cloud Django
You'd be wrong. Which is fine because when I was nine I thought Lando was they guy who sold Colt .45 on TV during the breaks on CHIPS.
Works every time!

It doesn't matter what Billy Dee Williams is in.. whenever he appears on screen, that line -has- to be uttered.
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post #20 of 45
1/24/05 at 10:17pm
This is what made Star Wars what it is today. Sure the first one was a mega hit, but this one shot it into the stratosphere. Plus it gets bonus points for being the only star wars film that doesn't have a scene of Tantooine.
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post #21 of 45
1/24/05 at 10:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trinity'sGusset
i'm sure there's a needlessly involved exposition scene in Episode 3 that will clear it all up.
I'm just surprised he didn't 'fix' it when he 'fixed' everything else in the old films.
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post #22 of 45
1/24/05 at 10:29pm
As pulpy, Flash-Gordon-esque entertainments go, it's a masterpiece. As films go, it's pretty damn good and that's what I've voted.

I have been justifying aspects of the prequels by saying that their dialogue and acting are pulpy and Flash-Gordon-esque, no better or worse than the dialogue and acting in the original trilogy. I stand by that.
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post #23 of 45
1/24/05 at 10:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Van Jones
I'm just surprised he didn't 'fix' it when he 'fixed' everything else in the old films.
It's something to do with dark-side and light-side forces. Yoda isn't lying per se, it's just a question of your 'point of view'. beats the shit out of me, but it'll all make as much sense as you want it to come May.
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post #24 of 45
1/24/05 at 11:04pm
Empire is the best because it has a great story while also opening up the SW universe [Galaxy].

Bounty Hunters, The Empire, The Rebels, The technology all gets opened up in Empire, Greedo was just the tip of the iceberg, the Death Star was hardly the heart of the Empires operation, The rebellion is much more large than Yavin...in short it expands upon the first perfectly.

But for me my favorite part is the relationship between Han and Leia, especially when they're fixing the ship......also Yoda teaching Luke about the force, those scenes you just don't care about Yoda being a puppet.......

it's a masterpiece, love the story, the characters, the writing, Williams score [Han/Leias theme as well as the imperial March]
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post #25 of 45
1/25/05 at 12:52am
absolutely my favorite movie of all time.


I've seen it countless times but not once have I ever considered Yoda less than a living, breathing character in this movie. I KNOW it's Frank Oz, I just don't think of it that way while watching (which is certainly not true with the prequels)
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post #26 of 45
1/25/05 at 1:19am
Pretty great film. It has a weight and tonal sensibility the other Star Wars films lack. It looks like a masterpiece when compared to them, and compared to the bazillions of sci-fi action flicks that followed Star Wars.
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post #27 of 45
1/25/05 at 1:28am
While my personal favorite will always be A New Hope, Empire is the best movie of them all. Best written, best acted and most thematic.
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post #28 of 45
1/25/05 at 1:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by poopoodle
Masterpiece.
Agreed.
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post #29 of 45
1/25/05 at 3:38am
If you hate this film you are an evil monster that has no taste and have no business calling yourself a fan.

Great as it is, JEDI is my favorite. All the lying Ben and Yoda do to Luke kinda bugs me.

Still, it's fucking glorious.
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post #30 of 45
1/25/05 at 5:41am
That's it in a nutshell. By all accounts it appears as if Yoda and Obi-Wan are lying to Luke, trying to convince him that Vader offed Anakin so he can erase their mistake. Knowing and accepting this is the sole reason why watching the second act of ESB is like pulling teeth for me.

I can watch the film till Luke reaches Dagobah. Then I skip ahead to Han and Leia arriving at Bespin...
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post #31 of 45
1/25/05 at 9:05am
Absolutely fucking spectacular. The verbal sparring between Han and Leia is great.

"I'd rather kiss a wookie"

"I can arrange that, you could use a good kiss"

Han's reaction to Leia kissing Luke. Great.

The final shot is perfect. I love that shot of the two cruisers nearly colliding with the falcon diving towards the camera.
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post #32 of 45
1/25/05 at 10:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Striding Cloud Django
Great first act, better third act.

Second act weakens the whole. And I've never bought the Han and Leia romance as it's dipicted. He was into her at the finale of SW, she had no interest in him. ESB opens and they're bickering like a couple of ex-lovers, which they weren't.

Kasden hadn't shaken the Indy/Marion relationship in his Raiders work yet and it shows.

I like the film. But I do not consider it the best of the SW movies.
Actually, the Indy/Marion relationship more than likely evolved out of the Han/Leia relationship since Raiders came after Empire.
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post #33 of 45
1/25/05 at 1:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Zod
If you hate this film you are an evil monster that has no taste and have no business calling yourself a fan.

Great as it is, JEDI is my favorite. All the lying Ben and Yoda do to Luke kinda bugs me.

Still, it's fucking glorious.

That's the first time I've seen someone say they liked Jedi the best. Nice!...I agree. Best lightsabre duel (so far) and I enjoy Lando's Asian co-pilot's giggle after the Death Star is destroyed. It's all in the details, ugnaught.
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post #34 of 45
1/25/05 at 3:56pm
Masterpiece. This movie is what made me originally study Taoism and Buddhism.
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post #35 of 45
1/25/05 at 3:56pm
Clearly The best of the three
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post #36 of 45
1/25/05 at 4:05pm
The end reveal though... Does anybody believe that this was originally part of the grand scheme of things? It's one of the great reveals, no doubt, but Lucas never really had the grand design a lot of people give him credit for.
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post #37 of 45
1/25/05 at 4:12pm
Thread Starter 
I don't think it entered Lucas' mind that Ben and Obi-Wan were specifically lying. It's one interpretation, sure, but I can't see it meself.

But then I suppose that's why I also don't really understand skipping the middle of EMPIRE. I mean, that's the heart of the movie.

As for the reveal... hard to say. I mean, Vader as Anakin was a character in the first drafts of ANH, but the little nuances in ANH make me wonder whether it's down to Lucas' direction or the actors, referring mostly to Beru and Owen talking about Anakin, and Obi-Wan's little swallow before he says 'A young Jedi named Darth Vader...'
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post #38 of 45
1/25/05 at 8:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SchleppyTheMule
Actually, the Indy/Marion relationship more than likely evolved out of the Han/Leia relationship since Raiders came after Empire.
No...actually it all started with Kasden's screenplay to Contental Divide, which Spielberg liked and bought to produce. It was from that script that he hired Kasden to write Raiders of the Lost Ark.

When Leigh Brackett died after completing the first draft to ESB...Spielberg offered Kasden up to Lucas based on his work on the Raiders script.

Just because ESB came out first doesn't mean the script to Raiders didn't exist prior...
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post #39 of 45
1/26/05 at 12:39pm
Pretty damn good entertainment, wouldnt go as far as a masterpiece (much as i love it). Still the best of the three.
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post #40 of 45
1/26/05 at 1:03pm
Masterpiece. As many times as I've seen it, I'm always up for watching it again at any time.
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post #41 of 45
1/26/05 at 1:11pm
I didn't like it when I first saw it in the theater. I was seven years old and was rooting for Luke since ANH. I thought Han was just a prick 'johny-come-lately' kind of guy and the real hero was Luke. Hell, I probably wanted to be a Jedi, too. Plus I remember being totally bummed that it ended with the bad guys winning.

When Jedi came out, I remember hearing stats about how many more special effects were in the new movie. That was a big thing and the effects in the movie were great for the time. It was by far my favorite.

Of course, now looking back at the more adult, creative elements of the series, I think most, including me, chalk up ESB as being the best. MY POINT: this series is mainly for kids.


NOTE: Not like anyone cares, but the foregoing is in no way intended to be inconsistent with the fact that the series has had a dramatic effect on cinema generally. It's just that I find that kids enjoy different elements and look at the series in a different way.
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post #42 of 45
1/26/05 at 1:17pm
ESB always has been and probably always will be my favorite Star Wars film. I still got alot of love for SW but it's kinda died down with time. I was the biggest SW geek in high school, now at 22 it's cool and nostalgic and I dig it plenty still but I doubt I will pop any of em in to see again for long, long time.

But definitely, ESB and ANH are masterpieces for sure, IMO.
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post #43 of 45
1/27/05 at 3:09am
Masterpiece.
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post #44 of 45
1/28/05 at 10:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock_bollocks
Funnily enough I just watched it last night with my son who is new to the movies (I wanted to wait until he hit at least 10). Empire is the hub of the wheel for ANH and ROTJ the way I look at it, it's the pretty quiet 30 mins you get in the middle of the film that explains why some shit is gonna go down in the last third and why shit happened in the first third. I understand how people want to look at them like individual movies but I see them as a continuation of each other. And as much as you wanna bitch about Lucas, you have to admire that he had a story that he wanted to get to screen and he did, and the way he wanted it to be. And he changed the face and arse of movies doing it. This is the high point of the 3 movies for me, but I find it hard to think of it as the best because I look at all the movies as a continuation of the story and therefore think of them as one big movie with this being the good part between the good part at the beginning and the good part at the end.
Good words.
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post #45 of 45
1/30/05 at 5:31am
My vote was for “Pretty Damn Good”. I’m not comfortable picking out masterpieces yet. I felt it was the movie that let you know the characters in the way that most of us cherish to this day. I loved the fact that the movie ended with the bad guys inflicting some serious hurt on the good guys. Beating up on them in life changing ways. We didn’t enter into Jedi with everyone ok, just a new movie with the same characters, there were some big issues that needed to be resolved. A New Hope could survive without the two sequels, but Jedi would be nothing without Empire. I also think the Imperial March is one of the coolest bits of movie music ever.
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