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ALIEN series - Page 2

post #51 of 114
1/28/05 at 7:09am
Ha! great image, Mecha (I still have that issue)!

Quote:
But there was no point making a pale imitation of Scott's precise vision. He was definitely crafting a James Cameron movie.
Which is why I dislike ALIEN 3 so much. Yes, it's brilliantly shot. Yes, the acting is good...Yes, the new version improves the story...

But when all is said and done, it's just 2 hours of Finver jerking off. It looks like it was made by someone who hadn't even seen the first two films. Having bald, mostly British guys picked off one by one is just boring -- I don't care how good the acting is! Also, it takes too long for the characters to get up to speed ("there's a creature on the loose?") when the audience is already waaaay ahead of them.

The brilliant thing about Cameron's film was that he brought you up to date in an entertaining way (through chracter), regardless of whether or not you'd seen ALIEN. Even ALIEN RESSURECTION, with all it's problems, did a better job. Fincher requires that you totally ignore any and all logic from the first two films (how the hell did an egg get on board - the Queen had no eggsack). He then gives us a lame retread of

And thejumbo, while all the stuff your mentioning is good and nice, I think you (and a lot of ALIEN 3 apologists) are confusing visually appealing aesthetics and meloncholy mood lighting for story content. The former doesn't make a quality film (if it did, Michael Bay would have several Oscars), the latter does. Cameron gave us both.

Again, I'm not saying the new cut isn't an improvement -- it is. But all the fancy camera angles, death themes, and shadows in the world don't mean Jack if you don't have a decent story. And, IMHO, not only does ALIEN 3 not have one, (we'd seen it done as good or better by Scott), it ignores several important points set up by ALIEN and ALIENS.

To me, that's bad storytelling.
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post #52 of 114
1/28/05 at 9:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreeper
Having bald, mostly British guys picked off one by one is just boring
uhm, is your problem with them that they are bald, or that they are british? personally, i would have filled the prison with samoans: there's no film that can't be improved by a well-delivered haka, IMHO.
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post #53 of 114
1/28/05 at 12:14pm
I am an alien resurrection apologist I am afraid as I found it to be one of the more interesting of the series and I think that as visual technician Jeunet can not be beaten. While the movie does have some glaring flaws, namely the somewhat inspid way Ripley’s change was handled and the melted face antics of the hybrid I actually think the film has a lot going for it and despite these two quite horrendous oversights still retains some charm.

The thing for me is that I am a fan of the graphic novelisation of the series and to me it felt like a wonderful interpretation of their kinetic style. The plot was also something of an oddity meshing ideas of genetics and eugenics but not really looking into the actual damage caused other than the ‘auschwitz’ scene which itself was fairly terrible, more like ‘Event Horizons’ grossness than a moving piece of film. But then you have the undertones of the film, the gothic set design, the cast of characters who for the most part aren’t superfluous and are introduced just enough so you actually care about them. Then of course you have the critters out in the open which while elevating some of their power does allow you to see them working at full force, the alien sliding into the escape pod is a favourite scene of mine.

I think that Joss Whedon having a go at Jeunet for making an awful film is pretty pissy actually as Jeunet seems to be forced to direct with his hand tied behind his back. If anything I think this film would have benefited from some of the kinetic (yeah I know) humour of City of Lost Children and Delicatessen (which itself was a far more macabre film than Alien 4). Yet despite this the film still works on a fundamental level and despite my extreme grievances with the white alien, I am sure it screams “oh no” when getting dragged through the window it is actually a stronger film than most people give it credit for.
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post #54 of 114
1/28/05 at 1:19pm

Nuke it

Nuke Every single copy of Ressurection from Orbit......... It's the only way to be safe.
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post #55 of 114
1/28/05 at 2:09pm
Quote:
I think that Joss Whedon having a go at Jeunet for making an awful film is pretty pissy actually
It was VERY pissy. That script blew ass. Terribly. Contrived, cliched...it was fucking fan fiction. Even in it's "Purest" form that Kreeper is referencing, the script was garbage.

IT ENDED WITH FLYING FARM MACHINERY.

they land on earth and FLYING FARM MACHINERY takes out the newborn.

I have not told a single person about that proposed ending without them either rolling their eyes or doing a spit-take.

Juenet did what he could, but he was definitely handicapped. Plus, he didn't really know what the fuck he was directing it for anyway, as he admitted on the DVD.
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post #56 of 114
1/28/05 at 2:49pm
Why does no one talk about the one reason that Alien 3 is so heavily flawed? They make an inexcusable, illogical mistake from the very beginning of the film. The very FACT that an egg was on the Sulaco in the first place is one of the most contrived and idiotic choices that was made. If you watch Aliens you can see that there was no way for it to get there. There was absolutely NO way that an egg could have gotten there. Everything that follows in that movie and Alien Resurrection comes from this horrible idea. There are a thousand different ways the alien could have been introduced into the movie, and they just HAD to go with the one that made the least sense.

On top of that, the facehugger seems to infect both the dog/ox and Ripley? No way.
The alien hatches completely formed with all its limbs, etc? No way.

There are certain aspects of Alien 3 that are interesting: the tone, shot construction, the cinematography. But the fact that it starts out of the gate with such a jarring mistake and continues to make more leads me to ignore the entire series following Aliens. AVP is dismissed for the same reasons. Science Fiction is the ONE genre where coherent, believable rules should not be ignored to provide an exciting story. Especially if you are following someone else's work with your own sequel you need to PAY ATTENTION to what the previous filmmaker established and interpret it logically. I'm frankly kind of tired of filmmakers not caring enough about the franchise they are participating in (especially Sci-Fi) to tell logical stories. It's not like it can't be good if it makes sense.
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post #57 of 114
1/28/05 at 6:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreeper
And thejumbo, while all the stuff your mentioning is good and nice, I think you (and a lot of ALIEN 3 apologists) are confusing visually appealing aesthetics and meloncholy mood lighting for story content. The former doesn't make a quality film (if it did, Michael Bay would have several Oscars), the latter does. Cameron gave us both.
Good point. Don't get me wrong, I'm no Alien3 apologist. I enjoy the film, and enjoyed it more last night. I do feel that the presence of the egg(s) is not sufficiently explained, and I was thinking that out loud last night. But, I look at that film (director's cut) like I look at a Calculus problem. It has many, many steps, and there is a possibility of error at each one. Let's say you goof up in the very first step, but carry the equation out correctly till the end. You get a wrong answer, but almost all of your work is correct. The teacher will give you partial credit, and that't what I'm doing here. I agree that the story is not as strong as Alien or Aliens, but it does tread some new and interesting ground. While I share your disappointment, when taken in the bigger picture, it isn't bad - in fact, it's far from it. Just go to AVP for that.

And if you see my original post (Post #17), you'll see my love for Cameron. That film occupies the highest echelon in my movie queue. Unconditional love, flaws and all.

LATER
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post #58 of 114
1/28/05 at 8:22pm
I can answer one of those lingering Alien 3 problems. Originally it was NEWT who was facehugged during cyro-sleep. When the EEV crashed into Fury 161, she drowned and the barely functioning queen fetus crawled out of her mouth and into Ripley's. That's why she was complaining about her throat.

The scene was in the script, ADI built the full-sized queen fetus puppet but they never filmed the scene (so most people say). If you read either the novelization (better yet listen to the book on tape edition, it's read by Lance Henriksen!) or the Dark Horse comic it's in both.

But the Alien 3 that should have happened was the William Gibson draft. Newt heads for Earth, Ripley's in a coma leaving Hicks and Bishop to carry on the fight with some Space Russians in an analogy for the ending of the cold war.

Speaking of Rambo...anyone ever read Cameron's Rambo script?
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post #59 of 114
1/28/05 at 8:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Striding Cloud Django

Speaking of Rambo...anyone ever read Cameron's Rambo script?
Yeah, very different from Stallone's rewrite.

Here's what Cameron said about it:

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"I was trying to create a semirealistic, haunted character, the quintessential Viet Nam returnee, not a political statement."
Quote:
"The action's mine....the politics his"
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post #60 of 114
1/30/05 at 6:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubei
The very FACT that an egg was on the Sulaco in the first place is one of the most contrived and idiotic choices that was made. If you watch Aliens you can see that there was no way for it to get there.
At the end of the credits for ALIENS, Cameron put in the sound of a facehugger running across the floor.
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post #61 of 114
1/30/05 at 6:16pm
Quote:
I can answer one of those lingering Alien 3 problems. Originally it was NEWT who was facehugged during cyro-sleep. When the EEV crashed into Fury 161, she drowned and the barely functioning queen fetus crawled out of her mouth and into Ripley's. That's why she was complaining about her throat.
Quote:
At the end of the credits for ALIENS, Cameron put in the sound of a facehugger running across the floor.
Great info - thanks. That's one of the reasons I love this site.

Gibson's draft sounds pretty intriguing. That would have been a great way to keep the franchise a bit 'fresher' if it was done right rather than just be locked into having Ellen Ripley against the beast over and over again.
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post #62 of 114
1/30/05 at 6:58pm
I have to say, I'm loving the discussion in this topic. I'm 19, so I still believe the Alien films are a little "above" me in terms of fully appreciating them, but each and every piece of info revealed her is making me want to run out and buy the Quadrilogy. By chance, are any early versions of Whedon's Resurrection script online? I know one draft is, but it's not particularly different from the film.

But keep it comin'
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post #63 of 114
1/31/05 at 12:52am
The draft of Whedon's Resurrection script that I have I bought at a convention back in 1996. In it Call was a blond who reminded Ripley 8 of 'a little girl she once knew but can't remember anymore,' the Newborn was more spider-like and couple impregnate its victims simply by stinging them with its tail, the final chase was on Earth with Ripley 8 and Call chasing it down in a flying Kentucky Harvester, Distephano wasn't killed by the Newborn but by Wren when he told him to 'eat my fuck...'

And Chow Yun Fat was in it as a pill-popping merc named St. Just. He was the character with the then disposable guns up his sleeves.

Is it on line...dunno. But I've found all the others for the series, so maybe...
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post #64 of 114
1/31/05 at 1:09am
(Error-post)
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post #65 of 114
1/31/05 at 1:20am
Still, although I ain't what you'd call a huge Buffy/Angel acolyte, Joss Whedon has gone some of the distance. But not all of it. He's shared an Oscar nomination. He's been known to make $100K a week on a fairly regular basis as a script doctor, and that was *before* he ever helmed a weekly drama series. It's fair to say that he has a reputation.

What he's long needed, however, is a portfolio: a decent sample of good, un-mucked-with stuff that shows what he can do when he's given control of his work. That's what his work on Buffy has partially done. Now, if he's going to have a long-standing career as a TV producer, he's got to put up some more hits to prove that Buffy hasn't been a fluke.

Firefly wasn't that show.
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post #66 of 114
1/31/05 at 6:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Van Jones
At the end of the credits for ALIENS, Cameron put in the sound of a facehugger running across the floor.
I think you're reaching here.

He and Hurd have admitted in several printed interviews was just a joke. And if you listen to his audio commentary on the ALIENS DVD, Cameron makes it very clear that Fincher's premise doesn't fly. In fact, in a 1987 Starlog Mgazine rebuttal to fans criticisms (I'll try and dig it up) and queries about a sequel, Cameron clearly states that there was no egg on board the ship, in Newt, Ripley, or even Jones the cat from the first movie.

ALIEN 3 is just sloppy storytelling, plain and simple.
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post #67 of 114
1/31/05 at 7:26am
Alien Resurrection

Alien Resurrection script download for ya.

This debate prompted me to go through the alien series myself. Just about to watch Resurrection. Taking out the fact that the facehugger is a hardy son of a bitch, and that a fan favourite character is offed in the most pitiful way possible, Alien 3 is actually quite an impressive movie.

Very dark, and it has a very biblical feel to it, as if the alien is god's wrath smashing down onto Sodom.

As for not appreciating the films at the age of 19...I'm 19 and I have been watching the alien films since I was 12 and have seen 1 and 2 enough to be able to recount the script. But only now on this viewing did I start to see some of the more subtle elements in regards to writing, particularly the level of friction in Alien 1
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post #68 of 114
1/31/05 at 7:34am
I would like to know if any of the comics told about W&Y how they knew of Aliens. And if anything happened back on LV


Kill off Ripley and call and start a new
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post #69 of 114
1/31/05 at 7:47am
From what I can gather from the movies the company was pretty much omniscient due to the fact that all computer data got fed back to them. I am guessing that Ash would have told them about the lifeform after they left LV.

Then again if you read the comics then you know that Weyland + Yutai are just a puppet organisation controlled by the elephant esque aliens form Alien 1 who are trying to kill all life on certain planets for terraforming.
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post #70 of 114
1/31/05 at 5:05pm
Well everything I wanted to say has pretty much been explained to death but I'm gonna type anyways. I always like the Alien mythos involved and honestly I feel that the first 3 films were all done and kept continuity pretty well. Thats one thing that killed me about Aliens vs. Predator as well as Alien Ressurection...the mythos and concept of them were totally shit upon.

I mean you could follow one of the many graphic novels or the books about Alien Vs. Predator and while it was briefly touched upon with those Mayan/Aztec backgrounds the way the whole thing worked out was just crap. Lets not forget that there was a "baby scene" in Resurection. For god sakes, that made me about vomit in ludicrous fashion. I mean if we are to vote right now to excise one film from our memories in the series and we include Aliens Vs Predator in it, I'd still go balls out towards Resurection as that whole film just makes me cringe.

To digress, I really like the Alien Queen concept. I mean sure it takes away from some of the mystery but I thought the fact that they were like ants was kind of cool. Plus the fact of the matter is that at least graphic novel speaking, it was always that they were pure killing machines and in numbers....just freaking insane. They were also more intelligent than first glance I.E. problem solving etc.

We might as well face it though, there will never be a good Alien 5 movie if any. If they bring it back to earth as opposed to a huge scale invasion issue or even a pretty good set pieced based film it will just be like AVP.
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post #71 of 114
2/1/05 at 1:30am
Even though I like Alien 3 very much, I've always kind of wished that they had made the Gibson draft instead. It took the series in a new direction, and on top of that, who WOULDN'T have wanted to see a film top-lined by Michael Biehn and Lance Henriksen (Newt probably wouldn't have been recast either). It was written to leave Ripley in a coma, because at the time the script was written, Sigourney Weaver had no intention of returning to the series. It was of course jettisoned when Weaver changed her mind and a couple of new scripts were written (I always liked the wooden planetoid/monk one as well). Unfortunately, Hicks & Newt where ditched along with that script, and Bishop was reduced to a cameo. Oh well.

Let's clone Hicks for Alien 5. Why not? The series is already screwed as is (Resurrection and AVP), so we might as well screw it up some more in a positive way. Bring back Michael Biehn!
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post #72 of 114
2/1/05 at 3:18am
or heck I'll reveal my idea I had for Alien5,

a very early form of time travel is used to bring Ripley into the future. Several attemps are made before, bringing Newt many years before (explaining the age gap) and Hicks also. Of course the way I set up the story is an isolated crew which had figured the key location in space where Ripley would be at that time and momement finally was able to retrieve her to the future. It is done in secret of course by a corporation. The ship which it is done on is huge to manage the huge amount of power to bring Ripley into the future. So thus, large portions of the ship are without power now.

I'll admit my idea in the beginning is kinda hokey, and if I really cared to (or knew 20th Century and Weaver would go for this) I could do more research to make the time travel make a little more sense. Then the film goes into a horror film like the first one. I had an idea of just having Ripley there, and slowly throughout the film, you learn of the time travel and trick the audience into thinking its a prequel, when in fact SEQUEL!
What it does though is make Ripley vulnerable again, and not some hybrid alien creature who can't be killed. You also get the possiblity of bringing back characters from Aliens and whipe out Alien3 and 4.

Sucks 20th Century Fox doesn't hire just on reading Chud.com message board replies.
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post #73 of 114
2/1/05 at 3:45am
I've said it before, I'm saying it again. I fucking love that Fincher shit all over Cameron's vision of the alien mythos. Fincher brought back the pseudo realism, the bleak desperation. I love it, it takes balls. Masterpiece or failure, in my opinion, ALIEN 3 is more like ALIEN than ALIENS will ever be.

My continued issue with ALIENS is that it turned these mysterious perfect organisms into "monsters." In ALIEN, the creature wasn't a monster, rather an organism intent on living, not so much a killer but a survivor, Kane's son. I don't think ALIEN3 brought the alien back into the realm of "perfect organism" but it certainly put everything on track. As much as I enjoy ALIENS, I don't like the idea of little girls being used, it's devisive, using children to warrant sympathy is always manipulation. Film itself is manipulative but just like children in horror films, well, it's a bid for sympathy.

I want back to the bleakness of ALIEN and ALIEN3. I don't want "kick ass, kill em' all predictable marines, or the aliens back on spaceships running around." I want desolate, silence, shadows, darkness, fear, true fear.

J.M. Prater
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post #74 of 114
2/1/05 at 7:57pm
Aliens fans will have their revenge. Someday.

The great thing about Aliens, same goes for Predator, is that they're the central figures of their franchise. Which means that ANYBODY can bring them back at ANYTIME. Weaver's losing the battle to time.

Someday we'll see an Alien film that finally does what should have been done years ago.

One without Sigourney Weaver.

And it will be glorious.

As for Newt and Hicks...I don't think of them as dead. After all...that wasn't Carrie Henn or Michael Biehn, was it?
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post #75 of 114
2/1/05 at 10:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreeper
I think you're reaching here.

He and Hurd have admitted in several printed interviews was just a joke. And if you listen to his audio commentary on the ALIENS DVD, Cameron makes it very clear that Fincher's premise doesn't fly.

ALIEN 3 is just sloppy storytelling, plain and simple.

Er ... "Fincher's premise?" Where did you get the idea that any of this script was Fincher's idea? It was my understanding that he showed up on the set and spent the whole shoot doing damage control of a botched production.

Check out the doc on the new DVD. The producers booked a release date and production schedule before they had an approved script. Fincher came in late to the game.


About "Aliens," it's a good movie ... but not the Holy Grail of Originality that fanboys make it out to be. It follows the basic plot structure of the first film (the "director's cut" even adopts much of Ridley Scott's basic "introductory" camera work) and commits at least one cardinal sin: the mystery and mystique of the alien was destroyed when it was revealed they were just giant ... ants.

But: "Aliens" owes the same debt to "Them!" that "Alien" owes to "It! The Terror from Beyond Space."

All of this sounds very blunt (Internet posts often come across as bitchy and bitter, no matter how you word them.) I like the first two "Alien" movies a lot. I really appreciate Cameron's nod to the myth of Persephone, as well. Like Scott, he managed to sneak in a bit of feminism in a predominantly testosterone-fueled genre.

I didn't mind Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection on their original release, but was surprised how much they bored me when I purchased the boxed set.
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post #76 of 114
2/2/05 at 1:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallace McB
Er ... "Fincher's premise?" Where did you get the idea that any of this script was Fincher's idea? It was my understanding that he showed up on the set and spent the whole shoot doing damage control of a botched production.

Check out the doc on the new DVD. The producers booked a release date and production schedule before they had an approved script. Fincher came in late to the game.
Exactly. In fact, with all the trouble Fincher had on the set, I'm surprised it turned out as good as it did. It could have been a whole lot worse.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallace McB
But: "Aliens" owes the same debt to "Them!" that "Alien" owes to "It! The Terror from Beyond Space."
Quite true.
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post #77 of 114
2/2/05 at 6:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallace McB
Er ... "Fincher's premise?" Where did you get the idea that any of this script was Fincher's idea? It was my understanding that he showed up on the set and spent the whole shoot doing damage control of a botched production.
My bad. Technically it was "Ward and Pickett's" premise; since it was their draft that started the inconsistencies/mistakes. Fincher deserves part of the blame though, because Weaver said she'd back him on whatever story changes he wanted to make (to the point where she threatenened to walk off the production several times when Hill and Giler didn't let him have his way). According to Fincher, however, the premise (i.E. not explaining the inconsistencies from the first two films) was fine -- so he gets part of the blame for not even attempting to try to fix it. Visuals are his strong thing, solid stories aren't. Plus, Fincher knew what he was getting into when he signed on board.


And believe me, the DVD's don't tell half the story about ALIEN 3's troubled production and excatly who was responsible for what. All you need to do is ask anyone who worked on the film. Not appearing on the DVD was a great publicity move on Fincher's part because it just let all his fans build up even more outrageous scenarios in their imaginations.
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post #78 of 114
2/2/05 at 11:28am
Quote:
The worst thing about these things is that, when the actors say it wrong, it makes the writer look stupid. People assume that the line... I listened to half the dialogue in Alien 4, and I'm like, "That's idiotic," because of the way it was said. And nobody knows that. Nobody ever gets that. They say, "That was a stupid script," which is the worst pain in the world. I have a great long boring story about that, but I can tell you the very short version. In Alien 4, the director changed something so that it didn't make any sense. He wanted someone to go and get a gun and get killed by the alien, so I wrote that in and tried to make it work, but he directed it in a way that it made no sense whatsoever. And I was sitting there in the editing room, trying to come up with looplines to explain what's going on, to make the scene make sense, and I asked the director, "Can you just explain to me why he's doing this? Why is he going for this gun?" And the editor, who was French, turned to me and said, with a little leer on his face, [adopts gravelly, smarmy, French-accented voice] "Because eet's een the screept." And I actually went and dented the bathroom stall with my puddly little fist. I have never been angrier. But it's the classic, "When something goes wrong, you assume the writer's a dork." And that's painful.
Whedon Interview

When you read quotes like that from Mr. Whedon himself it starts to become apparent why Alien 4 didn't work. Seriously what film stands a chance when the director and writer are in such clear conflict with each other....

I think that Whedon may have wanted to direct the film and got pissy when they brought in Jeunet...
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post #79 of 114
2/2/05 at 3:10pm
The basic premise for Alien Resurrection was written by Joss Whedon. The idea of a group of people running from point A to point B while the aliens chase them is all Whedon. What I fault Jeunet for is agreeing to direct material he h ad absolutely no understanding for. I fault FOX for bringing in someone based on visuals and nothing else.

For me, the biggest issue with Alien Resurrection that I have is story, story, story. Joss Whedon wrote that script, and no matter how many scenes weren't filmed or whatever endings weren't used, he still wrote the story which is and will always be contrived, devisive, and obvious.

It's been most apparent to me that Whedon has a love for ALIENS above any other film and that's the problem. Instead of being in love with what Ridley created he tried to recreate his love for ALIENS in his own version. The idea that the ship's computer was called Father, absolutely ridiculous. Johner and Vriess were a direct throwback to the antics of Hudson which we didn't need. There was no way that Whedon's story could have been filmed in a way that brought anything fresh to the series. The Newborn was lame, most everything was lame except for the stunning visuals which I attribute to Jeunet. Joss Whedon can write great camp, and at times contribute to funny existing stories [Toy Story] but a great writer he is not. Fox should've known better than to hand the story to someone so incompetent.

Writing an Alien film isn't about coming up with a new creature or making a homage to films gone before. Writing another Alien film should involve the process of remembering that it's about realism vs. perfect organism. I don't ever want to see a Queen again. We've seen her twice in ALIENS and ALIEN RESURRECTION, that's fine, I'm done with her.

J.M. Prater
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post #80 of 114
2/2/05 at 3:30pm
Newborn is probably the worst thing to ever hit the franchise....though I did really get a kick out of the Ripley clone satire homage thing in South Park with Towlie.
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post #81 of 114
2/2/05 at 5:14pm
Quote:
I listened to half the dialogue in Alien 4, and I'm like, "That's idiotic," because of the way it was said. And nobody knows that. Nobody ever gets that.
What are the odds of half the dialog in the movie being "said wrong"? I mean, I understand his anger regarding the specific points there, but I agree with Prater - ultimately he wrote the script.
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post #82 of 114
2/2/05 at 5:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by soggybagel
Newborn is probably the worst thing to ever hit the franchise....though I did really get a kick out of the Ripley clone satire homage thing in South Park with Towlie.

I had completely forgotten about that!!!
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post #83 of 114
2/2/05 at 5:56pm
Thread Starter 
I'm with JM Prater when he posted that ALIENS devolved the creature in to a monster rather than the "perfect organism". Thats one thing that has been missing in the series after the first film that they all now follow a formula based around ALIENS where a group of dead meat squabbling humans encounter the alien (or in the case of Aliens, Alien Resurrection & Alien vs Predator hundreds of them) and so starts a battle of wits, usually involving heavy weaponry and smart one liners, that whittles down to last man standing vs the Queen and a self destruct race against time....

Of course Alien 3 does fly in the face of this and so again I agree with JM Prater that its probably the closest to ALIEN that any of the sequels get.

But even the dark horse comics are the same, always its lots of gun totting astronauts vs hundreds of aliens and between the comics and 3 out of the four sequels (one being a prequel *ahem*) the fear of the Alien has gone....

So yeah I think that if there ever is another Alien movie, it needs to return to its horror roots. Also as its a personal bugbear of mine I hope that the Alien design itself to return to the true Giger version of the original. The more that Alec Gillis and Tom Woodruff work on the design for the creature in each sequel the more the Alien is loosing its "pipes, pisons and valves" shiney bio mechanoid look and the more it looks like a half chewed bit of bubblegum with a few pipes here and there...And for the love of god I hope that someone sees the first film and realises that the Alien didnt leak KY jelly from every single pore all the bloody time! And a note for the director of any potential Alien sequel... Do not try and replicate the "upclose, toothy grin, lots of drool shot" that Ridley Scott did so well.... every director so far has tried to do that and that shot just doesnt work if its used every time you see the creature!

Anyway heres hoping!
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post #84 of 114
2/2/05 at 11:00pm
Does anybody really want another sequel? I think we can all agree there is one very obvious story left to tell, but even if its successful it will only serve to rob the alien of its mystique. And movies can go bad so, so easily.

I suspect that Alien 3 and 4 will quickly go the route of such sequels as The Exorcist 2, The French Connection 2, More American Graphitti, The Jerk Too (oh, and Splash, Too) as fogotten follow-ups. Studios love to milk a movie monster because they don't have to pay them (Boris Karloff and Robert Englund might be the exceptions as the Frankenstein monster and Freddy, but even Karloff soon found out that he was considered disposable.) I say let the series rest before the alien joins the ranks of Chucky and Michael Meyers. If it's not already too late.
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post #85 of 114
2/4/05 at 8:21am
Well, it's sad to say, that most people under the age of 20 have never seen Alien or Aliens. If any of them are familiar with the franchise past the name, they've seen Alien Resurrection. With Hollywood going after the youth market most aggressively, it's most likely another Alien film isn't on the docket.
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post #86 of 114
2/9/05 at 1:16am
Incidentally, here's Cameron's essay from Starlog responding to some criticisms of Aliens

http://public.globalnet.hr/~maprstac...art/art04.html
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post #87 of 114
2/9/05 at 3:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Creosote
Incidentally, here's Cameron's essay from Starlog responding to some criticisms of Aliens

http://public.globalnet.hr/~maprstac...art/art04.html
Intersting. He really went hardcore into detail to defend himself.
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post #88 of 114
2/9/05 at 11:42am
I loved the responses from Cameron! Why? Glad you asked!

Two reasons:

1. He isn't a cock, like Don Murphy would have been.

2. He treated all of the criticism with respect and took them seriously. His tone was one of professional dignity, not trapped wolverine. And he made pretty clear arguments one many of the subjects, so it's difficult to find fault with him, personally.

Whether you like the film or not, at least Cameron cares enough about the subject matter and the fans to take his role in the series seriously.
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post #89 of 114
2/9/05 at 1:49pm
They should base the next Alien film on one of the many comix series released by Dark Horse.Here are some of my favourites:







These comix prove that the Alien franchise is very versitile, you don´t need to have Ripley in the story to make it successfull.The alien monster is the main character, not Sigourney Weaver!
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post #90 of 114
2/9/05 at 5:35pm
"By the way, it's not in the goddamed cat and it's not in Newt, either. I would never be that cruel."

Heh, good article.
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post #91 of 114
2/9/05 at 7:53pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randolph Carter
They should base the next Alien film on one of the many comix series released by Dark Horse.Here are some of my favourites:







These comix prove that the Alien franchise is very versitile, you don´t need to have Ripley in the story to make it successfull.The alien monster is the main character, not Sigourney Weaver!
While I agree that these takes on the Alien series are unique, I think the only one there (having read them all but Nightmare Asylum) that would work is Labyrnth as its more visual and unlike Stronghold, for example, doesnt go off taking the ideas to the extremes that comics can get away with but films rarely can. For example Stronghold having a talking robot alien as a major character, which although is a good idea when taken in context, but wouldnt work in either a visual sense (how would you tell the "good" alien apart from the bad) nor would it make the aliens scary again as the audience has to accept one as ok.

Labyrinth would work because its a mystery thriller / mad scientist horror genre at its heart, the Alien is simply another thing in the lab being used as a pawn by the insane Scientist. The Alien isnt seen that often and when it is, its pretty tense stuff, but my only criticism of this story is it pulls a "Midichlorians" moment on you when it pads out the opening third of the story by having the mad "Dr Frankenstein" of the piece is explaining how the alien works, especially its taste for pork, its fight or flight responses and its suseptability to telepathy / strong projected emotion. All this demystifying of the monster again lessens it.

Dispite all of this you are totally right on one count, none of these stories are any the worse for the lack of Ripley.
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post #92 of 114
2/9/05 at 10:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreeper
Fincher knew what he was getting into when he signed on board.
That's what I keep telling people, but they want to make it look like Fincher was simply screwed without reason. Not true. He had many different projects to choose from for years before making ALIEN 3. He KNEW about the trobles with script; he KNEW the sets were already built and that he was going to have to work with what was already there. He KNEW there was a looming release date. He KNEW he was a nobody director dealing with a paranoid studio.

So he shows up to a soundstage with sets that can't be torn down because they were too expensive to build with a script that obviously wasn't working and wanted to play ball. He fumbled the ball, then blamed the pitcher for throwing it too hard. Sure, Fox should take alot of the blame, but ultimately Fincher knew what was what and he did it anyway because it was a chance to make another ALIEN.
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post #93 of 114
2/13/05 at 11:56pm

An absolute brilliant idea...

And it's all mine!

Alright, here goes: In Batman: Dead End, Aliens snag the Joker. Even though we never see him again, let's assume that he got his innards turned into an incubator. Can you imagine the havoc created by a Joker spawned Alien? ok, I know that Aliens that pop out of people are just standard issue, but the Joker's not just your average human is he? Fuck it, set the wee beastie loose in Arkham and the script just writes itself!


Yep, I've been drinking again. Sorry about that.
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post #94 of 114
2/14/05 at 1:30am
You forgot the All Time #1:

Pig with a nuke strapped to its back. There's your ALIEN 5.
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post #95 of 114
2/14/05 at 12:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randolph Carter
They should base the next Alien film on one of the many comix series released by Dark Horse.Here are some of my favourites:

<SNIP>

These comix prove that the Alien franchise is very versitile, you don´t need to have Ripley in the story to make it successfull.The alien monster is the main character, not Sigourney Weaver!
You missed out the all time great Dark Horse comic



Aliens Vs Predator

It would make a great idea for a film.. You could get some aficianado to direct it, . like Paul W.S Anderson, and it' so versatile you could get away with a PG cetificate, and. and....Oh shit!! It wasn't just a delirious nightmare... it really happened!!
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post #96 of 114
3/8/05 at 4:27pm
Can't believe I haven't posted here.

Alien : A classic sci-fi/ horror flick. Not much more to say that hasn't been done by someone with a bigger vocabulary and more extensive film knowledge than me. (10/10)

Aliens: Definitley one of the best sequels ever made. My fave of the series and one of my favorite films of all time. (10/10)

Alien 3: A film that I once hated and now enjoy thanks to the new Quadrilogy cut. Great film that should have marked the end of the series. (8/10)

Alien Resurrection: It's got some nice visuals/ concepts (hybrid alien/human) but it never progresses the series or lives up to it's potential. (6/10)

I'm interested in another Alien flick being made as Alien 4 was a unsatisfying bookend to the series.
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post #97 of 114
3/8/05 at 4:48pm
Dark Horse really made some shite ALIEN stuff... some of it ranks as bad as the SW EU.

However, they made up for it with ALIENS: BOOK II (aka NIGHTMARE ASYLUM) which is better than 3 and 4.
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post #98 of 114
3/8/05 at 5:53pm
One idea that could work for another Alien movie would be infestation of earth that so many people seemed interested in over the years. They kind of set up the possibility for this at the end of the last movie but it doesn't need to be connected in any way.

I just read that essay that Cameron wrote to address the critics and it was really interesting, but the whole idea of the colony being wiped out and the aliens going dormant for lack of food/hosts is great. It would be a bit of a downer, but there is potential there for pretty cool story where the same thing happens to earth on a planetary scale. There wouldn't just be a derelect spacecraft but a whole derelect planet.

I suppose there could still be people living on space stations or other colonies on other moons etc etc, but the whole concept of the annihilation of earth is pretty powerful stuff. It could be an epic scale disaster movie or it could be a smaller story set to the backdrop of a world in decline, ending on the wrong side of things, pulling away from where our story ends up into the sky, up into space, as the easrth is more or less in the process of being laid to waste.

It works for me.
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post #99 of 114
7/16/05 at 11:08pm
I'd like to see something explaining the "space jockey" guys.

I finally got around to buying the damn set and I'm very pleased with it. It's the best DVD set in my collection.

What's your thought's on the special editions of all fours films, guys? Their pretty interesting to watch and I prefer the special versions of the final two films over the theatrical releases. A4 is still mediocre though.
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post #100 of 114
7/17/05 at 6:10pm
Thread Starter 
hehe saying you prefer the extended Alien Resurrection is kinda like saying you like a shit sandwich on toasted bread instead of just a plain ol shit sandwich

I have to say that after that line though I do actually agree with you... I saw Alien: Directors Cut at the cinema and found that although I was glad they stuck the Hive / cocooned Dalas & Brett scene in there it did, as Scott said on the original DVD commentarty, kill the pace of the film.... Not to mention anyone seeing this film for the first time would be confused as to why there was a need for an Alien Queen in the second film.

Similarly I found that Aliens was already long enough and with the inclusion of a few interesting scenes which help flesh out bits of story, such as the Jordans finding the derelict and the auto guns forcing the Aliens to take a new route which is why they head in through the roof cavity, it became bum numbing and again dragged the film out long past its sell by date... and it still didnt include Carter Burke pasted in to a wall pleading for Ripley to kill him ...

Alien 3 with the extra bits did help flesh a few bits out but not to the point where I think it saved the film, it just made it make more sense in places but all in all its a better film for the additions.

Alien resurrection on the other hand.... well like I said earlier, would you like your shit sandwich toasted or on plain bread...
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