Any Whedon haters? Vent!

I watched one episode of Buffy once. I don't think I've ever seen anything else he wrote.

I love the first three seasons of Buffy and most of Angel, so I don't hate him, but I don't swallow his juice like some folks. Nor do I think the shows have the greatest cast in the history of filmed images (Barry, I'm looking in your direction). But, he did good stuff with TOY STORY, although I don't know how much in the end turned up his. However, ALIEN RESURRECTION sucked. His claims about his great story ruined by Jeunet are bullshit, because it was always a lame script. But the guy's a decent writer, if a bit too popcultureish for my liking.

Angel is great. Buffy is good as a primer for Angel. Firefly was fun. Most of his other stuff stinks to high heaven, low heaven, and all the heavens in between (I understand he's responsible for the worst line in X-men).

I don't hate the guy, but I think his stuff is WAY overrated. I'm sorry, but his dialogue is okay, but it's definitely not that great. I think that if I were a 14-year old girl or Herc from AICN (I maintain that those two things are not mutually exclusive), I might have more of an appreciation for Whedon. As it is, though, I'm not the biggest fan. Having said that, I loved "Firefly" and sorta dig his stuff on "Astonishing X-Men." Overall, though, just don't get the obssessive love some people have for the guy.

I think it's because he created some great tv. And people love some tv.

True, but he's also responsible for the best line in X-Men.

"Prove it."
"You're a dick."

I'm having a hard time thinking of anything he's done that I like. Did he do the original Buffy movie? i liked that. Can't get into anything else he's done (and I've tried).

I think that he only wrote the movie's script.

I appreciate that the guy brought Colossus back to the X-Men, but his television work leaves a lot to be desired.

Whedon only wrote the first three seasons of Buffy (which was good), the rest was under his creative control but a rotating staff of writers (all capable, some really good), same with Angel.

I never got to see Firefly. I was out of the country that week.

Alien: Resurrection was, as Whedon would say, "the suck".

Atlantis was under-appreciated

Astonishing X Men is a fun book.

X-Men the movie was a mixed bag, popcorn diversion.

I like Buffy, and have all seven seasons on DVD. But I don't think that it is the greatest thing to hit the airwaves. Some of the effects and prosthetic work is laughable, the last season felt rushed, plot threads were started that went nowhere, but overall I would give the entire series a solid "B".

I don't understand why some people hate Whedon.

he's crap...I never have understood why people worship this guy...as far as I can tel, he writes 90210 for people that are to "hip" and "edgy" for 90210...

You could take time and refute most of these critques one by one, but it'd be like banging your head against a brick wall...

I happened upon Angel by accident, and got hooked. I considered Buffy nothing more than a 90210 clone with vamps, and was way the fuck off. Firefly is devoid of the half of popular gripe of Whedon's style, and I think it fires on all cylinders faster, and is a more mature and elegant bit of storytelling than either of his other shows (which I love dearly). He's not flawless. I admire his technique as a storyteller, and I'm partial to the same themes he's fond of exploring.

Dismissing Whedon out of hand for either the pop culture references, or the more overzealous factions of his fanbase is the epitome of taking an angle grinder to your nose to spite your face. Knock yourselves out, though. We'll be having a good time while you're all crotchety and what-not.

That's bullshit. People say about Tarantino. People say it, along with self-referencing, ruined American horror. I happen to think the shows do it too much. It's called an opinion, you see. We all have them. I actually was impressed this thread had gone so long without some idiot coming in and decrying everyone who doesn't like the man's opinions as worthless. Thanks for bringing us down to earth.

Ease up, sailor, its just a joke you're not going to, and I don't expect you to, catch. Through no intellectual fault of your own.

Other then not liking the Whedon.

Edited For Charles B:

Slow with the venom. I'm NOT calling anyone a retard for not liking Buffy. I just think the charges leveled against him are easily overcome, considering I did.

I've seen several seasons of Buffy, and whatnot (save for Firefly), and I'm really just apathetic towards him.

Also, this statement: You could take time and refute most of these critques one by one, but it'd be like banging your head against a brick wall...

Sorry, about that, that's hyperbolic shit on my part.

This forum has taken a turn for the bizarre. It used to be "______ will tell you what he thinks of you" and other chewer love and self-love threads. Now it's all UFOs, Joss Whedon, Robert Zemeckis and restaurant-of-the-week.

I liked Buffy. Never got into Angel. Was unaware of his contributions to much else. I like the way he tells a story. I also appreciated Buffy's continuity, but I'm a nerd about continuity.

We have UFOs here? Cool.

checking amazon.com for that Slim Whitman collection

Haven't watched enough of the man to really make a fair opinion. Tried half an episode of Buffy and Angel apiece, and I was bored silly, but you can pick a bad episode of virtually any great TV show and do that. I just don't have the energy, time, or desire to sit through seasons and seasons of some mythology-rich show that I'm not particularly excited to see.

Love his X-Men run, tho.

Nada, you're reading waaay too much into this. If someone doesn't like the man's work, it's no skin off my ass.

I think the typical bitching about Whedon is short-sighted bullshit. Have fun playing MB cop, though.

I liked the first few seasons of Buffy, never watched any of his other stuff. Buffy was a well written show at first though, but kinda tailed off in the end.

As previously stated the first three seasons of Buffy are Great BUT NOT REPEAT NOT the greatest thing ever made on TV. Angels first, 2nd and last season were good but the rest was ok.

He is no the saviour of TV people think he is

I tried watching Buffy but just couldn't get into it, I don't hate Whedon or anything but I just found the character's annoying except maybe Nick Brendon's character, that and the fight scene's. I haven't seen Angel or Fyreflies.

Okay, this is not an attack post from me, but a legitimate query. I've heard plenty of praise for Angel, and reading your first statement kind of aroused some old suspicions of mine, about how the Buffy as a series isn't really a good example of Whedon, etc, etc. But then you go on to say that Firefly is more elegant and mature, which pushed me pretty far in the other direction, since that show actually had people wearing early American frontier attire, using colt single action army pistols, and having conversation after conversation that could easily be a direct port from an episode of Will and Grace, 8 Simple Rules, etc, in a dystopian future/sci-fi show. I mean, did I just see the wrong episodes? Is the extreme level of camp a big part of the appeal, like Troma or something? I know that sounds like a run-of-the-mill bullshit insult, but I swear to god these are the unadulterated impressions that show made on me.

I really want to know what Whedon fans are getting from these shows that I'm not. I'm tired of missing out.

Touche!

I think Angel is greatness (at least the first four seasons, haven't seen the fifth), but that's just me. The only reason I watched Buffy was to get the backstory on him and Spike (since I know Spike shows up in season 5). In my opinion, it's the worst of the three though.

Firefly has some charm, because it's a space western, and I haven't seen that done too much before. That idea just appeals to me. I think that it's believable. Space is a frontier, and I think the people settling it will be just like in the American frontier. Some advanced technology, but not the rich folk or the government, just the simple settlers. It appeals to me to take that settler setting into space. I mean, in Star Trek, everything's all shiny and new looking, and I don't think that will be the way real space settling will be. I think it will be dirty and second-hand, just like the settling of the american frontier was.

I'm a fan of the guy, but I had to share this conversation I had last night regarding Whedon:

CUTE GIRL OUT OF MY RANGE: Name one thing he's done that's bad.

ME: Alien Ressurection

(silence)

Storytelling is as much a technical skill as it is a creative one, and I've come to really admire how Whedon tells his stories. He tells the kinds of stories I want to tell, and how I wish I could tell them. I dig on the content and I dig on the themes he likes to play with. Usually, he tells his stories exceedingly well, from the stuff he has total control over, to when he's just laying the foundation for other people. Simple as that.

Not everything works for everybody & it's not about me "getting" it amongst a bunch of drooling retards. I try not to pull the bullshit elitest card. If for saying this stuff, I come off as a pledging-his-allegiance-blindly fanboy, that's unfortunate, because that kind of perceived unwarranted devotion turns people off. Whedon's stuff ain't everyone's bag, and if it doesn't work for you, that's cool, but as I've said before, the usual complaints about the guy's work strike me as really lazy criticisms, especially because I wrote off Buffy for the same reasons I think a lot of other people here do.

Annnnnnnnnnnd, I'm spent.

I totally agree with it not being some super nice and sterile environment, and that it would be function over style by far, but do you really think any part of it will look EXACTLY like the 1800's? Unless they're 'Space Amish' or something, I can't see any of the settlements being like that. I dunno, maybe this isn't that big of a gripe. After all, the other settlements I saw them go to looked alright.

Geez. Must be the only guy here with love for Alien: Resurrection….It ain’t that bad is it? Well aside from the evil white gorilla alien thingy…..and Winoa Ryder….

I have to admit that I like Whedon’s writing but I am not entirely sure why, as a lot of falls into either bullshit post modern referencing or just completely wacky stuff out of left field. And yet generally speaking it usually makes me smiles, plus he does some quite clever things with his storytelling. Innocence is perhaps one of the best examples of this. In this episode of Buffy, a show I find watchable but strangely insipid, Whedon taps into the teenage fear that when you finally have sex with someone it changes your relationship for the worse. In Innocence this is shown by Angel changing to Angelus in a fit of post coital blues.

Firefly is an interesting show, but I think that is mainly down to Whedon’s ability to create good rapport between characters through his writing.

As for his script doctor work while a lot of it ain’t brilliant , or in the case of Speed even used it is far better than the Tarantino stuff on Crimson Tide…..the comic book debate almost always takes me out of that movie every time I see it. The scene just messes up my concentration.

Well, it is a TV show. I guess it was just a stylistic choice to make the western part of 'space western' stick out more. It's just a stylistic choice I happen to like. If you don't, so be it.

I also thought that I should add that originally I hated Buffy, because everyone else liked it and I thought it was merely OK. Once I gave Angel a chance, I loved it. I still find Buffy ok, but it's tolerable because of its connections to Angel. So, if one of his shows doesn't click with you, at least try the others. One of 'em might just be up your alley.

Also, this idea is really funny and could make for an awesome comedy TV series.

Hmm. I think I get what you're saying. And sorry if I gave the impression that I was saying you were trying to make it seem like you 'got' something others couldn't. What I mean when I say 'get' has more to do with knowing what you're watching. For instance, I used to think that Heat (by Michael Mann) was dull because there didn't seem to be a while hell of a lot going on in many scenes, and thus had poor pacing. Of course, I was expecting it to be more like other 'crime' movies I'd seen, that weren't trying to be as realistic.

I don't want to do the same thing with Whedon's stuff, watching it expecting to see what I usually do from things in what I thinkare in the same genre, and thus missing what its actually trying to do.

See, I don't hate any of his stuff, I just haven't seen anything that broke the average barrier for me.

Yeah, I'm thinking I should pick up the first season of Angel. I already have season one of Buffy, maybe I should try to watch more of that one, too.

Don't know about Angel, but Buffy kicks in pretty good about halfway through the second season.

I love Angel because I loves me some vampires. Forever Knight was one of my favorite shows ever. I like Angel because it feels like it's in a similar vein (ahh! a pun) to that show. Only with, you know, a budget.

Much of Season 1 of Buffy is....not good. However, if you stick with it through the introduction of Spike in Season 2, you'll find the rest of the series is worth your while.

And, personally, I think Firefly is Whedon at his best.