Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones?

I've always preferred TPM. Less action scenes, but it had a bit more goofy charm and Liam Neeson. Liam outweighs a lot of stuff. AOTC had a great turn by Ewan, but seemed too much like generic fan-fiction. It's villain also had more screen-time (Lee is good, but doesn't appear until late in the film). That said, I really disliked AOTC on first viewing, and I find most of it tolerable for now. It has a great ending, and some nice ideas.

But I like TPM more...always have. AOTC is the worst of the 5 films to date.

IN MY OPINION,
Chuck

I voted for the Phantom Menace.
Being filmed on real film seems to make a difference - making it actually beautiful at times rather than AOTC's impressive.
I'm also going to go with that argument about TPM being truer to Lucas' vision (!), having a genuine sense of pacing and purpose and theme, while AOTC is too cobbled together and fan-pandering. It's probably expressed better somehwere else, and you've probably all read it there so yes, it's that argument.

And remember, everytime you say the prequels suck, an ewok dies.

oh, hold on.

I think overall, TPM is the better film, even though I hate it. Although AOTC has a few parts which I think are pretty close to the OT in terms of tone and goodness. I think Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan dominate pretty much, although I think the most successful part of the PT is Palpatine's arc.

Ooooh evil poll!

Personally I think Attack of the clones feels more like star wars, both are flawed films to say the least but for spectacle and pacing Clones wins this IMHO.

Phantom Menace takes too long to get in to the real action and then dies half way through with the Tattoine segment and the pod race, none of which does much for the film at the time and which I felt could have been handled differently....

Just watched AOTC again with my four year old son (his first time) last Friday. I really liked this movie a lot more than I remembered it in the theaters. Found myself less anoyed with bad parts (i.e., '50s diner, space cow riding, inappropriate 3PO humor), and much more enthralled with what I thought were great moments (Geonosis, Jango versus ObiWan in space and on ground, Hayden riding out to kick Sandpeople ass, the last half hour).

Yes.

btw, I voted Clones.

I like both but TPM got my vote. I'm all about the Qui Gon.

TPM is complete shit. Minus the Jake Lloyd factor and you would have a much better movie.

AOTC, in my opinion, was a much more action oriented and much more mature film compared to TPM.


But there is one scene that bugs me, nobody ever talks about it though.

At the battle of Geonosis when Padme' falls out of the Jedi troop carrier:

She falls to the ground and lands on her back, the camera is focused on her, she gets up as if nothing happened faces stage right and then a clone trooper runs up, stops in front of her...then there is a short pause and he asks her if shes okay, she says "yes"...another pause and then they run off.

The scene just seems so odd to me. More like kids playing than a scene directed in a major motion picture.

Does anyone else ever notice this?

If I had to choose one film to keep due to some crazy circumstance, I would choose Attack of the Clones. I don’t really prefer one over the other on whole. The Obi-Wan super sleuth subplot adventure was a lot of fun though. That is what tips the scales for me. The pod race has a lot of re-watch value, but the Clone War at the end was really fun to watch as well. So I chose Attack of the Clones.

Plus, I really like Natalie Portman’s white outfit. But you guys have good points about Qui-Gon, he's probably one of the best Star Wars characters.

The changed the "yes" to a grunt on the DVD release. Yeah, it was a pretty Hollywood moment.

I went with TPM. For me it was really a choice between two evils, though, since I really don't care for the PT. The opening of TPM was so promising. . . then they landed on Naboo. *sigh*

I have so many problems with both films it's hard to decide which one I disliked least. I'll join my voice with those who feel that Palpatine's arc is being handled well, though. It's the one aspect of the PT I have consistently enjoyed.

Really? I thought it was boring and went on too long. Of course I am not a fan of real life racing.....and the two headed announcer? I don't think we need to tread that ground again .


ESPECIALLY if what we are hearing about ROTS is true.


Well I am glad I am not the only one that noticed. It almost seemed like a rough deleted scene that they accidently left in. I was scratching my head when I first saw it. Thanks!

I always love to hear it when people say they loved the beginning of TPM, because I thought it, too, was peppered with a lot of bad moments with good moments.

Bad Moment: "Roger, roger" (I mean come on. I thought the next line was going to be, "What's your vector Victor?").

Good Moment: Qui-Gon coming through the blast door. Total reference and tip of the hat to Forbidden Planet. Loved that scene and the music was perfect.

Bad Moment: First introduction to Trade Federaction dialect. Highly discussed so no need to rehash.

Good Moment: Obi-Wan's force push; the rolling super Droid Decars (sp?); "brief negotiations."

My point is that the first bit of TPM is consistent with the rest of the film.

I won't argue that point. It's just that the good moments were close enough together that I thought it was a good start. AFTER that point the good points were few and far between. Once the Naboo stuff started I began to lose enthusiasm for the film, and it never really won me back over.

Seems odd that I'd pick it over AOTC after all that criticism, but after it's said and done I find TPM more cohesive than AOTC.

AOTC over TPM every day.

Clones Attack Me Daily

Clones. I am staring to appreciate TPM more and more as time passes. But man, AOTC is fun. I actually like the Anakin-Padme stuff too. Like teenagers who take themselves way too seriously. Kind of perceptive on Lucas' part or the product of melodramatic middle-aged man? Either way, works for me.

Clones

I think the Phantom Menace could be fixed by :

1. Redubbing Jar Jar, Watto, the Gungans and the Nimoudians with alien languages. The OT rarely had aliens speaking English, and was better for it. Use subtitles for some, and context for others.
2 Eliminating the commentator for the Pod race. That thing just pulls you right out of the movie.
3. Restoring Anakin beating up the young Greedo.
4. Removing the line about Anakin being birthed by the Midichlorians, or Anakin's father/non-father/whatever in general. Nothing wrong with there being a biological reason that some people are stronger than others, but don't make them sentient.
5. Making Anakin's attack on the Trade Fed. ships more deliberate.

"ESPECIALLY if what we are hearing about ROTS is true."

No, REGARDLESS of the ROTS spoilers, Liam gave a great performance as an interesting nuanced character. That helped the film tremendously. It has little to do with his future relevance.

It's like asking which is preferable, genital warts or a prolapsed rectum.

eh, I'll vote for Phantom Menace. At least it didn't have space cow riding to the theme of The Sound of Music.

I'd choose your post!

Wow, i'm surprised by the amount of people who chose TPM instead of AOTC! Yet i get a feeling that you are only now admitting it because Nick did. But what ever, i chose AOTC baby!!

No. There are indeed many people who prefer TPM. But it's really more to the point that they just hate AOTC more than TPM.

Oh, I hate TPM like my dick hates cheese graders but the Anakin/Padme love story somehow went back through time and killed Jesus.

When I first saw The Phantom Menace, the Viceroy's voice really put me through a loop. It was so odd. I wasn't able to get used to it until I saw Attack of the Clones. Watching the Viceroy trying to get Padme killed was the funniest Star Wars moment for me. After that, I actually liked their funny voices.

The main reason I choose Attack of the Clones over The Phantom Menace was mainly because we aren't to the "thick" of the story yet. Not until the end anyways. Once we get to Attack of the Clones, we have the Clone army conspiracy and the universe really starts to become that one from when I was a kid.

Generally speaking TPM has a lot more going for it than AOTC- namely Darth Maul and the final space battle which I find cool. However the simple fact that Jake Lloyd is in the movie means that I have to plump for AotC. If Lucas was hoping to achieve perfect iconoclasm of the Darth Vader character then he suceeded.

I understand the grievances many people have with the Anakin/Padme love story from AOTC. Those are obvious. However, wouldn't you say that the annoying stuff in TPM (ie, Jar Jar, Jake Lloyd, and grade school churlishness) is much more prevelant than the trite, corny cutesy love stuff in AOTC? I mean, we're only talking about a handful of scenes as opposed to almost half of the other movie.

What, and eliminate Greg Proops' last seven years of steady work? You heartless bastard!

bingo.

I think it comes down to the fact that, while TPM has lower lows, there's just nothing about AOTC I like. Ian McDiarmid notwithstanding. Maybe it's also because I "blame" AOTC for not being good more than I blame TPM. I know that's silly. But I feel like TPM was a failed experiment and that AOTC is just a terrible movie. Besides, I've always liked the character of Qui Gon... he seems sincere, for lack of a better term. The stuff most people credit AOTC for, like Obi Wan's story, I thought was just as piss poor as the rest of it.

For what it's worth, when you only have two choices, you are choosing which film is 'better,' not which film is 'best.' Be that as it may, Clones baby, Clones!

I love both of the prequels...

but,

The Phantom Menace was better.

I voted for Clones. I never really feel the need to fast forward thru anything in AOTC, whereas I skip right past the Tatooine scenes in Menace. Especially the Pod Race.

The Phantom Menace is the truer Star Wars movie, but I find Clones more entertaining with a few scenes that send chills down my spine.

You know if I was a betting man I would have lost guessing this vote...

Its interesting, considering the result the amount of vitreol elsewhere thats leveled almost exclusively for Phantom Menace....

Personally as I mentioned before I prefer Clones and actually feel that if there hadnt been a prequel Trilogy but just Episode II (with a crawl explaining the three moments of interest in TPM - Anakin freed from slavery, Obiwan becoming a master and training Anakin & Palpatine being voted in as grand chancellor) and Episode III being released then perhaps things might have been different as far as who likes the prequels...

Still maybe not.... because I sometimes think, that no matter how good TPM or Clones might have been, there'd still have been some Aint It Cool Talkbacker saying "George Lucas Raped My Childhood"...

So, he intentionally made a bad one with Ep2?

I heard a theory once that the uptake of the internet and chat forums like this one grew in ernest around the time just before Phantom Menace (I dont know how true this is so dont shoot the messenger) and that by the time the film had come out the internet users had whipped themselves in to a frenzy to such a degree that the backlash soon after the films release was incredibly vitreolic and exceptionally bleak. No surprise there you might say, but the theory goes, that while before, Lucas could simply make the movies he wanted to and ignore the critics in the normal press and media, the fact that the negative response came from the fans was something of a shock to him.

After all in reality, Lucas had till reciepts and fan conventions as a barometer of quality before the internet sent the fans views right in to his computer.

And so the theory goes, that Attack of the clones is really a product of Lucas compensating for fan reaction, more lightsaber duals, big battles, less jar jar, overblown action and a pace which was less sedate than Phantom Menace.

How true any of that is, is obviously unknown but it is interesting to consider that if Phantom Menace, with its more sedate pace and gee golly gawsh action moments had been a fan fave rather than the disaster that everyone keeps harping on about, what Attack of the clones would have turned out like?

Went with AOTC, because it contains more of what I wanted from the prequels -- more of the rise of Palpatine, more of the origins of the Clone Wars, more Jedi being Jedi.

That said, and this is going to be an enormous reach, but I'm starting to look at TPM as sort of The Hobbit to the rest of the PT's LOTR -- it's a prologue, it's more for kids, but it does a good job of showing you the lay of the land before the more adult story starts. Not comparing quality, mind you, just function. And there's a part of me that still responds to the whole theme of lost innocence in the first film -- it's a happy ending that's actually sad because we know this high point in the Republic is going to crash in flames.

Still, there's not a lot in TPM that couldn't have been done in the first 30 minutes of an Episode I AOTC, leaving Episode II for the Clone War carnage we've been yearning for (and I mean more than five minute cartoons).

You've just described one of the best unintentionally hilarious moments in all the SW films. The funny thing is, you skipped over the truly "WTF?" moment. When she and the clonetrooper run off at the end of that scene, Portman does the funniest goddamn "run", using the term loosely. She must've not felt like acting that day, judging by the cartoonish way she pumps her arms while moving at a snail's pace.

It's a strange ending to a strange scene.

Neeson as Qui-Gon Jinn...

Artoo's introduction and the 'death' of the astromech droids...

The cheese 30's era 'Saturday Morning Serial' inspired opening with the Niemodians and Queen Amidala...

Hugh McQuarrie as Captain Panaka...

The look of Outa Gunga...

The Pod race...

The final space battle...

Phantom Menace all the way.

That would be because Padmé's CGI in that scene.

But then that's what happens. He goes on his own, makes THE PHANTOM MENACE, everybody hates him. He thinks, okay, let's see what the fans would like to see, makes ATTACK OF THE CLONES, everybody hates him for pandering. I don't think the guy can win, really.

Not saying anything he did was right, just that the guy's not in an enviable position.

Where did you see the movie? If anything, public opinion of Phantom Menace seems to have improved since it opened.

No. you're wrong. People came out trying to convince themselves that they liked what they saw. Opinions changed drastically a few days later.


And many people WANTED TO LOVE THIS MOVIE.


Remember that. Some of you act as if people were gunning for it from the begining. That was not the case with most people that HATE TPM (like me).

I guess it's just the midwest, but I came out of the movie hearing how everyone was disappointed, whereas now, basically everyone I saw the film with say they at least like it.

Um, I think the Anakin/Padme love scenes do equal half of Clones and more importantly it was supposed to be the heart and the driving force behind Ep. II. Having it be a failure pretty much sinks the entire film. I mean , the final shot of the movie isn't the clones being sent into battle it is Anakin and Padme's wedding. As much as people enjoy the clone wars segment it wasn't meant to be what carries the film. The heart was always meant to be Anakin and Padme and it failed miserably.


However the stupid shit in Menace, well, it can be written off much like the entire film can be. Yeah, it sucks but it was Ep II that really needed to deliver. That's where the meat of the story, as pretty much everyone at Lucasfilm reminded us, begins. Not to mention the horrible editing. Clones was a film that needed to breathe instead it was strangled at every oppurtunity.

I like both movies, despite their flaws, but I think I like Phantom best.

Attack of the Clones has a kickass opening, and builds up pretty good, but most anytime Obi Wan's off camera the movie gets pretty boring. I hate the ending. The ObiWan, Anaking, Dooku duel is the weakest of the series(including the A New Hope). Droids made outta balsa wood suck and the Jedi are hopping around like idiots. The clone troopers some how turned out cooler than an army of Jedi. Wow. Then there's C3PO's antics....I'd honestly take Jar Jar tripping around the battlefield over that.

Phantom has Qui Gon....man when he starts taking apart that door on the Trade Federation ship...so cool.

And it's not that I'm trying to defend Phantom Menace it's just that I feel Phantom Menace was a film full of bad choices where Clones was simply a poorly put together film, period.

TPM, and it's not even close. Even with the farting and horrible performances by Jake Lloyd and Jar Jar.

I remember the feeling of finally getting into the theater after waiting 14 hours to see TPM, seeing the THX, LucasArts and "A time ago..." screens. Then finally Star Wars and the TPM crawl...God DAMN I got chills.

Aside from that wonderful feeling, TPM had two excellent parts...the beginning until they arrived on Naboo, and the Jedi fight at the end. Nothing in AOTC came anywhere close to those scenes. I was bored when saw AOTC on opening day (even with low expectations), and upon the "second-chance" viewing, I was bored even more. I'm a big fan of SW and my first memory as a child is seeing SW in the theater, but AOTC is just plain bad.

Also:

6. Reinstate the sequence showing Jar Jar's discovery of the shot-to-hell Gungan city, along with many, many, many shot-to-hell Gungans -- something we *didn't* get in the final battle. Would go a long way toward re-establishing some of the Gungans' street cred, insofar that we'd have actually SEEN their devastated civilization. Unlike the Naboo.

Wouldn't need for much (or any) Ahmed, either...most of this was already presumably shot and dumped into a storage bin somewhere at the Ranch; George could simply have his ILM elves sexy-up the Gungan death toll and finally get in line for some of that belated fan-lovin'.


That makes the Baby Osama cry, y'know...