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Pg-13

post #1 of 39
2/3/05 at 4:36pm
Thread Starter 
"Here comes another really bad horror film."

That's what I think nowadays when I see the PG-13 rating tagged on a horror film. I didn't used to worry about the rating at all. It is possible to make a decent horror movie and maintain a PG-13 rating afterall but sadly it seems that's not the case anymore. Movie after movie gets cut up with the scenes us horror fans really want to see ending up on the editing room floor. Thank God for the studios out there that are unafraid to actually release an R rated movie though they are getting fewer and farther between. Who are they trying to appeal to with the PG-13? Isn't there enough mature horror fans out there to make money for the studios? Surely after releases like House of 1,000 Corpses and Cabin Fever the ties must see that going for broke and giving us what we want is a win-win situation. We get the gore and they get the money.

I'm starting to see a trend with more and more movies leaning towards and ending up as PG-13 and it scares me. Am I just being close minded or should I be afraid of the dreaded PG-13?
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post #2 of 39
2/3/05 at 4:43pm
A good movie can scare you even with a PG-13 rating, they focus on storyline and character development more and build up great tension through atmosphere.

However, your average horror movie isn't anywhere near good enough to be able to survive a PG-13 rating. They depend on gore, monster FX and great kill scenes to entertain the audience. When you take those out you turn a poor but entertaining movie into a boring movie.
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post #3 of 39
2/3/05 at 4:45pm
Is gore really all that matters in a horror movie? I don't even consider gorefests like Cabin Fever or House of 1,000 Corpses to be horror movies. They're slasher flicks or gross out thrillers. They rely on cheap scares and musical cues, like a ramshackle haunted house attraction that gets built on some little league field every year in time for Halloween. It's startling, but there's no actual meat there. Nothing that sticks with you.
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post #4 of 39
2/3/05 at 4:53pm
And though both did fairly well considering their budgets, neither Cabin Fever nor House of 1000 Corpses was a real hit.
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post #5 of 39
2/3/05 at 5:16pm
"Is gore really all that matters in a horror movie? "
Unforutnantly to a lot of alleged horror fans, yes.
This might be why "Carnival of Souls" one of the scariest movies ever made and a horror movie icon, get so little love around here. It scares the hell out of you but has little if any violence.
I agree, though, that a film that is going to depend heavily on the gore factor should be released with a R instead of a PG-13. Cutting it down makes no sense.
And I find "horror" films that rely on one gore filled scene after another with no attempt at story or charecter to be boring.
It's not I am opposed to gore...you will not find a bigger fan of the original "Dawn of the Dead" then I...but you need more , a lot more, to make a really good horror film. It's a lot easier to hire a make up FX team to create gore then write a good screenplay and hire a good director.
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post #6 of 39
2/3/05 at 5:30pm
Personally I dont think 'horror' and 'PG-13' go together. Sure, PG rated movies can scare people, but I dont think they're specifically horror movies to begin with, they have elements of scary things going on, like Huston's performance in The Witches, or T-Rex killing people in Jurassic Park. A real horror movie is surely aimed at a mature audience, above 18 years old, dealing with mature themes aided by lots of explicit violence and nasty things going on. The gore and shit isnt necessarily the crutch of the movie, but is apparent usually.

Anyway, Hollywood horror is more or less dead right now, all thats left is to plunder Asian cinema while we all wait for another American renaissance.
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post #7 of 39
2/3/05 at 6:11pm
Yeah. Sure.
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post #8 of 39
2/3/05 at 6:16pm
I have no problem with a horror film getting a PG-13 rating as long as the material warrants it. Not everything has to be rated R. The real problem is when studios gear for a PG-13 from the get go just to sell more tickets or even worse, edit down an R feature into a PG-13 one......like Alien vs. Predator (the first 6 films are rated R, why not this one? Damn them for toning it down), Cursed (who in the hell edits a werewolf film down to a PG-13), Darkness (again, trimming for tickets is wrong on so many levels), etc.

I'm actually still surprised that Constantine is being released R rated.
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post #9 of 39
2/3/05 at 7:19pm
"...fuck PG-13 and fuck "R"....NC-17 baby!...that's what horror films are all about..."
Wow, what an intelligent approach to Horror films.
Like a film that is having problems getting a general release is going to be a renaissaince of American Horror film.
Plot, charecters, writing, good filmaking are meaningless. It all about the gore, baby.
I had an interest in seeing Murder Set Pieces until I saw the reviews.
The overwhelming number of reviews I have seen ..and a lot of them from Horror fans...is that Murder Set Pieces is a shitty movie with nothing but it's over the top gore to recommend it.
I require a little bit more from a film before I put down my Ten Bucks to see it.
Yes, Romero has the gore, but he also has plot, characters you care about, and exceptional filmaking skills to go around with it.
Nothing I have read about the film, and in fact nothing I have heard from Palumbo, indicate Set Pieces has any of the above to recommend it.

And fright is beginning to sound like a Shill for the movie....
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post #10 of 39
2/3/05 at 8:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Werewolf Girl is the Universe
A good movie can scare you even with a PG-13 rating, they focus on storyline and character development more and build up great tension through atmosphere.

However, your average horror movie isn't anywhere near good enough to be able to survive a PG-13 rating. They depend on gore, monster FX and great kill scenes to entertain the audience. When you take those out you turn a poor but entertaining movie into a boring movie.

I agree.
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post #11 of 39
2/3/05 at 8:08pm

I'm just ignoring Fright from now on.

Starting to look like a shill???

Shit. All he does is shill shill shill. He's almost as bad as the free ipod people.
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post #12 of 39
2/3/05 at 9:17pm
Thread Starter 
Fright, stop please. It's getting very annoying and the more you keep it up the less people that will actually want to check out the movie.

Carnival of Souls is a very good and important horror movie. I love it. I'm not trying to say that ALL PG-13 movies are going to suck just that the majority of them do and get that rating from making excessive cuts of the original film which might have started out being an R rated picture. I just think the latest trend for Hollywood is to make as many movies as possible PG-13 to hopefully draw on a larger crowd and make more money only to make an unrated DVD and rake it in there also from the hardcore crowd. It's debateable wether or not a movie like Alien vs. Predator would have been better had it been an R rated flick but I think Paul Anderson has the talent to do better than what he did with it.

I'm surprised that Constantine will be rated R. That actually gives me hope that it will be a good movie. Had it turned out to be PG-13 I would have skipped it for sure.

The fact is it takes alot of talent behind and in front of the camera and everywhere else for that matter to make a good PG-13 horror movie. They are not flukes. Look at The Others. Was it not rated PG-13? I liked it alot and thought it was one of the more classic style horror movies to come out in a long time. (I am infatuated with Nicole Kidman so that might have colored my perception a bit)

If you look at the great horror directors of the past and of our time I don't think any onf them would ever dream of trying to make a PG-13 Horror film. JC wouldn't touch it nor would Fulci, Argento, Romero, Cronenberg, or anyone else who is in the upper echelon.

The PG-13 rating is Hollywood's baby it doesn't have anything to do with horror films and shouldn't. It's all about the money.

Also House of 1,000 Corpses and Cabin Fever were both highly succesful films at the box office and in DVD sales. Compared to their respective budgets they made a windfall.
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post #13 of 39
2/3/05 at 9:25pm
Personally, I think JAWS takes the PG-13 rule and bites it in half.

And it's a horror movie. Unless you think dragging Robert Shaw to his death as he spits out blood while being bitten below the waist is family fare.
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post #14 of 39
2/3/05 at 9:37pm
It really depends on the film. Movies like The Ring and The Grudge etc. don't need gore to be effective. However, I totally agree that films like AVP and Cursed which are meant to be R rated gory creature fun are neutered by being trimmed to PG-13 ratings. I am of the mind that certain horror movies and genres need to be rated R to do justice to the material. It is a flat out shame that Hollywood gets so hung up on ratings. I mean, why even bother to film material with gore that you are just going to take out later?

P.S. Cursed better getting a fucking Unrated/R rated cut on DVD. Problems and all I was amped for some werewolf munching action, and it would be a true disservice to Wes Craven, Rick Baker and KND FX if the film they intended to make goes unseen.
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post #15 of 39
2/3/05 at 9:38pm
Rick Baker who left the project a while ago?

I have no allegiance with Craven anymore. His continued pairing with Williamson makes me wish he'd hook up with Sean Cunningham again. At least he'd be making interesting movies.
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post #16 of 39
2/3/05 at 11:38pm
Yes that Rick Baker. The way I understand it the creature design is still based on his work.
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post #17 of 39
2/3/05 at 11:43pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles B
Personally, I think JAWS takes the PG-13 rule and bites it in half.

And it's a horror movie. Unless you think dragging Robert Shaw to his death as he spits out blood while being bitten below the waist is family fare.
First of all I didn't realize Jaws was PG-13. Still as I said it takes talent to make a PG-13 horror movie work and Jaws had a little of that.
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post #18 of 39
2/5/05 at 5:54pm
Well technically every film should be rated R whether it be horror, action, comedy or romance. And why? Well because it's real life. Yes I agree that that the grudge and then ring and most ghost stories really don't need the gore to be effective however not rating them R takes the real life factor out. Listen what makes a horror film scary is realism. If every other element in the film is real then when the giant monster or ghost or whatever shows up it's more believeable. Even if it's a ghost story and it's not violent it should have a fair amount of cussing because if anyone saw a ghost, or smoe kinda monster your gonna say holy fuck! and thts all there is to it. Now I haven't seen the grudge yet(it's sitting here beside me waiting for tonight) but im sure people die in it. Those deaths should be shown realistically. Realism is the single most important thing. A horror film either needs to be real is so far over the top it's ridiculous(army of darkness, Undead, Return of the living dead ect...). Just look at a film like garden state(not horror but you'll get my point) it could have easily made a pg-13 and still have been good. But the language made it real because thats how people talk period. Look all im saying is that yeah a film can be really perfect being pg-13 but lets face it, it would be better if it were R. I find it hard to believe that in poltergiest, the scene where the wife was getting drug across the ceiling she wasn't cussing because I know I would be.
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post #19 of 39
2/5/05 at 8:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FRIGHT
the American renaissance is Nick Palumbo's "Murder-Set-Pieces", which is rated NC-17...fuck PG-13 and fuck "R"....NC-17 baby!...that's what horror films are all about...check out the trailer at www.frightflix.com
__________________

Dude, I'm one of the very very few fans of this film on the internet, and even I think what you just typed is so unbelievably full of shit.

Oh, and Puppetmasterfan has a point. Life is rated R. Then again, we're in the business of creating movie magic, and nothing is scarier than the unknown. I have a feeling a truly scary film would feature something that the ratings board would look at and have NO IDEA how to classify.
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post #20 of 39
2/5/05 at 11:49pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Werewolf Girl is the Universe
A good movie can scare you even with a PG-13 rating, they focus on storyline and character development more and build up great tension through atmosphere.

However, your average horror movie isn't anywhere near good enough to be able to survive a PG-13 rating. They depend on gore, monster FX and great kill scenes to entertain the audience. When you take those out you turn a poor but entertaining movie into a boring movie.
WG I have to come back to your post because I have so many issues with it.

Yes, a GOOD movie can scare you with a PG-13 rating but how many of these so called GOOD PG-13 horror movies can you name.

As for focusing on storyline and character development more and tension build up well for the most part PG-13 horror movies don't generally contain any characters I give a shit about and are usually made by studio hacks who will do whatever the suits and the MPAA want them to do. This comes down to sacrificing many of the things, as Puppetmaster has said, that make a story truly believable and therefore frightening.

As for the average horror movie not being good enough to survive a PG-13 rating well the average horror movie (going back to when horror movies were first made to today) wouldn't want a PG-13 rating becasue they were too good for it.

As for depending on gore (realism), monster FX (now who doesn't like a cool monster?) and kill scenes (hell yeah) to entertain. Goddamit girl that's what horror is all about. It isn't about these namby pamby, girlie, soft-core 90210 wannabees that are coming out lately.

Let's see.....

GORE

My God where would the horror genre be without it. I love gore. I am a gore hound in the first degree. To me there's nothing better than a good eye piercing scene. By good I mean one that's shot up close, happens slowly, and the camera never pulls away. Lucio Fulci would have been out of a job without gore and I love the man. Same goes for Romero. Can you imagine any of his Living dead films without proper gore. Hell Jason and Micheal would have been bored to death if their movies had the gore scenes stripped away. They reveled in gore and they're good movies for it.

MONSTER FX

An American Werewolf in London, Alien, Predator these great movies were built around their great monster FX. To this day there has been no better werewolf transformation filmed than in AMerican Werewolf. H.R. Giger is an artistic genious and birthed one of the more memorable monsters in movie history with the Alien. Can you picture ALien rated PG-13? Hell No.

KILL SCENES

Are you saying that movies that rely on great kill scenes are weak? John Carpenter doesn't make a movie and then at the last second decide to throw in some kill scenes because otherwise his movie is going to suck. They are as much a part of the movie as any other scene or line of dialogue and without them yes the movie would probably suck but only becasue it is incomplete.

The PG-13 rating is fine for other genres in film but it rarely works in horror. The only reason so many PG-13 horror films are coming out now is because with movies like The Ring and The Grudge the studios are tapping into a younger, broader market and are making more money than sticking with the hardcore fans.

I consider myself to be pretty hardcore and yes I like my monsters and gore and kill scenes to be as realistic and heavy as possible. The first horror film I saw at the young age of 9 was The Shining. Had that been rated PG-13 and not scared the living shit out of me I probably wouldn't love the genre as much as I do today. I just wish the studios would stop and give horror back to the fans instead of relying on underage focus groups to make their decisions.
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post #21 of 39
2/6/05 at 12:03am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
"SLITHER has been specifically designed to urinate freely and proudly onto PG-13 horror. It will be the hardest R ever!" - James Gunn

Go man!
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post #22 of 39
2/7/05 at 1:58pm
Yeah just thought I would add to this. Just watched The Grudge last night and I really didn't like it. However I can see how some people could like it. Anyway I put on the commentary and as I suspected Sam said, "Yeah the ratings board made us take out a bunch of scary stuff". So there ya go, was it effective and scary for alotta people? Yup but it would of been alot better as an R(and without that stupid explanitory scene in the middle). But at least Sam is honest. He clearly said the reason they went with a pg-13 was for money and nothing else. Hey Sam can we say sellout? But don't worry everybody Sams gonna get more of our money. I rented the grudge so I don't gotta worry about it but for those of you who bought the grudge better throw it away cuz they're gonna have a directors cut so there ya go. Sam goes on and on about how much he wants to make these little horro pictures and then his production company makes this and boogeyman. What do ya wanna bet boogeyman will have an unrated cut as well? Yup Sam good job getting back to those good ol horror roots. Im here right now to bet seriously I will bet that they try to make the evil dead remake pg-13. And as for evil dead 4 if that ever happens im sure that will be pg-13 too, they were going that way with army of darkness anyway(it had some cartoony gore but honetly if it were summited today I really doubt it would get the R, doln't get me wrong I do love it.)
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post #23 of 39
2/7/05 at 2:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FRIGHT
Dude, I've been running horror websites for 12 years, been an avid collecter of horror genre for last 30 years...Ive seen it all......

You run websites with THAT grammar?
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post #24 of 39
2/8/05 at 3:44am
Actually fellas, Jaws is rated PG.

Also, in case anyone hasn't read it, Ryan Rotten has a nice little article of his opinion on this whole argument over on Dread Central. I tend to agree with his views as well.
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post #25 of 39
2/8/05 at 9:59pm
Thread Starter 
Rotten just isn't hardcore enough.

Heh, messin with ya Ryan. It's a neat little article and I would agree with him if either this were the 60's or I was 12. Hollywood isn't exactely pumping out the classics with this latest batch of PG-13 horror. WHat they are doing is capitalizing on the sudden renewed interest in the genre and instead of worrying about putting out quality flicks that even the biggest horror fan would love they are content with putting out shit movie after shit movie and maxing out the seat to ass ratio. I guess Boogeyman came in at #1 and that only goes to prove my point. I doubt many seasoned horror veterans went to see this movie. It was probably full of teens and newbies who only recently discovered how cool horror movies are. I'll never accuse the suits of being stupid that's for sure. They know how to turn a quick buck. So excuse me if I don't get all giddy about a PG-13 slated movie. I'll wait for reviews first. If people say they like it and it's good then maybe I'll take a look either at the theatre or on video. For the most part however I expect them to get slagged like they are and in that case I'll most likely never see it.

I don't think there are too many people saying they won't go see a movie because it's rated PG-13 period. What they do realize is that there is a trend in Hollywood of taking advantage of the kids with pure garbage. Was Darkness Falls rated PG-13? I can't remember but if it was that may have started this whole thing. IMO, it's the worst horror film ever made. Anyway, everyone is aware that an other than R rated horror film can be good. It's been done in the past sure. We're not talking about the past and movies like The Wolfman, Dracula and Creature From the Black Lagoon(one of my all time favorite creatures). This is the 00's. The decade of the half-assed, turn a profit and run, PG-13. Also I do believe Tremors was rated PG-13 was it not? I love that one too. So for now give me the R rating or hell I like the idea of NC-17. Blood and guts that's what I want.
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post #26 of 39
2/8/05 at 11:43pm
I think the two main factors in horror switching to PG-13 are...
1. The Sixth Sense. This movie made a TON of money, and the copycats abound. Still, these copycats are only a small chunk. The main factor is number 2...
2. "unrated" DVDs. Many horror fans, including myself, will pick up a movie we've already seen in theaters(the PG-13 one) to see what's new, or what got cut out. These DVDs are selling so well that it's crazy, even when the same movie fails theatrically.
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post #27 of 39
2/9/05 at 3:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus-6
I think the two main factors in horror switching to PG-13 are...
1. The Sixth Sense. This movie made a TON of money, and the copycats abound. Still, these copycats are only a small chunk. The main factor is number 2...
2. "unrated" DVDs. Many horror fans, including myself, will pick up a movie we've already seen in theaters(the PG-13 one) to see what's new, or what got cut out. These DVDs are selling so well that it's crazy, even when the same movie fails theatrically.

Agreed. Hell, look at what has been trimmed recently and is supposedly going to come out "unrated" on DVD:

The Grudge
Darkness
Boogeyman
Cursed (not announced, but it's a given)


I'm probably forgetting a few.
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post #28 of 39
2/10/05 at 12:10pm
First thing I have to say is that everyone in the "real" world does not cuss.

The most important thing in any movie is story. If the story is good enough it doesn't need gore, cussing or sex. Of course if the story is about gore, cussing or sex and you take it out, the story will suck.

The Others worked without those things because it was never about those things.

You cut those things out of a movie like Dead Alive/Brain Dead or Dawn Of The Dead and the movies would suck because they are key to the feel of the movies.

If the story didn't have any of those things to begin with they should be added, if they did have them they shouldn't be cut.

Many of the movies that came out in the 70's and 80's wouldn't get the same rating if they were released today. When Roger Corman's Cry Of The Banshee came out in 1970 it was rated GP ( there wasn't a PG or PG-13 at the time ), today the DVD is rated R. Ratings are based on the morals at the time a movie is released as much as they are based on what's in the movie. You could cut about 30 sec. out of Night Of The Living Dead and Halloween and get a PG-13 rating today and they would still be great movies. The truth is Halloween had very little blood in it and Titanic had as much nudity and it was PG-13.

I will never go see or buy a movie based only on it's rating. I don't watch movies for their gore, sex, or cussing, I watch movies for the stories.
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post #29 of 39
2/10/05 at 12:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by S.D. Bob Plissken
Agreed. Hell, look at what has been trimmed recently and is supposedly going to come out "unrated" on DVD:

The Grudge
Darkness
Boogeyman
Cursed (not announced, but it's a given)


I'm probably forgetting a few.

Would you buy a "unrated" DVD of a movie you didn't like in the theaters? I wouldn't.

I bought the remake of Dawn "unrated" because I liked it in the theaters and felt that added footage would help the movie, both the cut gore and the cut story. If I didn't like it in the theater I'm not going to buy the DVD no matter what they add to it.
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post #30 of 39
2/10/05 at 2:52pm
I don't know that I would buy an unrated DVD of a movie I didn't like in the theatre, but I may certainly be more likely to pick up that DVD as a rental to see what may have been cut. For instance, I did not like Seed of Chucky well enough to buy it, but I am planning on checking out the NC-17 cut when it hits the local video stores.
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post #31 of 39
2/10/05 at 4:00pm
PG-13 is the devil. It is the film-rating equivalent of a mini-skirted, big-titted, platinum blonde cocktease.

When there is a seriously fucked up situation in a movie, I want to hear characters curse (just like we do in real life). When somebody is going to get eviscerated or shot, I do not want a lame cutaway scene, I want the gore and horror of the moment to envelope me in "R" rated goodness. Artificial constraints on movies with adult themes of violence, sex, and horror almost always result in a watered down viewing experience. Imagine how gutted a PG-13 rated Aliens would be. While you can make a good movie that's PG-13, I think the same movie would almost always be better if it had gone for an "R" rating. The inverse is definitely not true.

Basically, when I see any movie attempting to pass itself off as a suspense thriller or horror movie with a PG-13 tag I invariably decide not to see the movie unless some other aspect of the film appeals to me.
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post #32 of 39
2/10/05 at 9:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlord

Basically, when I see any movie attempting to pass itself off as a suspense thriller or horror movie with a PG-13 tag I invariably decide not to see the movie unless some other aspect of the film appeals to me.
Ratings don't appeal to me, good stories do.

Are there any movies that you didn't like that added gore, sex, or cussing would cause you to change your mind about? Would a movie like Secret Window become a good movie if gore, sex or cussing were added? Have you seen movies with gore, sex and cussing that you didn't like? These things don't make a movie great, the story does. You know that some director's cuts are shorter than the cut released to theaters? "Director's cuts" and "unrated cuts" don't always mean a movie has more gore, sex, or cussing.
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post #33 of 39
2/11/05 at 4:46am
I used to not have a problem with PG-13, but it's become so obvious that movie companines only use it to make more money. When The Sixth Sense came out, I was interested to see if other cool PG-13 horror films would follow, but all we got were a bunch of films that were cut down to get that rating. I guess the argument can still be made that good films can be made, even with a PG-13 rating, but that sure hasn't been the case lately.
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post #34 of 39
2/11/05 at 10:59pm
Truth is I haven't seen any good R rated movies lately.
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post #35 of 39
2/12/05 at 3:34am
Quote:
Are there any movies that you didn't like that added gore, sex, or cussing would cause you to change your mind about
Yes. Many. At least at that point they would become guilty pleasures of the nihilistic portion of my brain, rather than simply poorly executed movies.

Lost World comes to mind as a prime example. Why bother having dozens of people killed off if you're going to wimp out when it comes to delivering on screen violence.

PG-13 v. R has nothing to do with "good" versus "bad" stories, it just has to do with potentially censoring themes out of a film. That invariably leads to a tamer/blander product.
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post #36 of 39
2/12/05 at 4:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borgosi
Ratings don't appeal to me, good stories do.

Are there any movies that you didn't like that added gore, sex, or cussing would cause you to change your mind about? Would a movie like Secret Window become a good movie if gore, sex or cussing were added? Have you seen movies with gore, sex and cussing that you didn't like? These things don't make a movie great, the story does. You know that some director's cuts are shorter than the cut released to theaters? "Director's cuts" and "unrated cuts" don't always mean a movie has more gore, sex, or cussing.

Very much agreed. And no, I wouldn't buy the unrated DVD of a movie that I did not like in theaters. I might, however, give it a second chance by renting it. That would depend on the cirumstances of what was edited and how much was edited. For instance, extra gore/violence is not going to save Darkness. On the flip side, Cursed is a werewolf movie being released to theaters with a PG-13 rating. I am not one to complain about ratings, although in this case I would. Besides that point, given the projects troubled nature, I would be inclined to check it out again on DVD if it were released uncut if for nothing else then to compare the versions.

You are right though. The STORY makes the movie. Not gore, violence, profanity, sex, etc. Such things can enhance (or detract from) the story. What do I want out of a horror film? A good story, a clear vision, and hopefully atmosphere. Anything else just helps (or hinders) it.

PG-13 vs. R? Whatever serves the story best and whatever suits the films purpose. Take Boogeyman for instance. Now if you were making that film with the intention of the titular beast's victims being ripped and torn asunder, by all means go for an R rating and go for the gold with it too. However, if people being sucked into dark spaces and/or occasionally thrashed about is your vision, then see it through. Point is, film your movie the way you want it. If it turns out as a PG-13 film, fine. If it's R, fine. Just don't sacrifice your film by cutting it back for money. The one exception to this might be NC-17 vs. R, because most theaters won't carry an NC-17 rated film. Any cuts/edits made to a film should be made for pacing/time and whether or not the scene has any sort of impact on the story. It should not be cut so more seats can fill the theater. If your film is good enough and gains a big enough reputation, those seats WILL be filled. Word of mouth will spread, children will sneak in, etc. That and the ones that miss or can't see it in theaters will see it on DVD/Video. Hook your audience in that theater, and you will pull money off the film for the rest of its life. Draw them in and disappoint, and you will lose a larger chunk of long term sales.
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post #37 of 39
2/12/05 at 9:33pm
A poorly executed movie with gore, and sex is still a poorly executed movie.

There are those movies like Dario Argento's Phenomena that are cut for no other reason than to be able to get in more showings in a day. It was cut by 28 mins. and the title was changed to "Creepers". Story was cut. When that happens I will watch a movie I didn't like before. However 2 or 3 mins. of gore or sex spread out over 90 mins can't change a movie enough to make it good if the story isn't there, or to make a classic bad if the story is there.

How many of us would rush out and buy "Children Of The Living Dead" if we heard they were releasing a directors cut with 6 mins. of missing gore?

I know I wouldn't.

How many of us would rush out and buy a new copy of "Night Of The Living Dead" if we heard that it would include 6 mins. of footage that Romero lost and had now found and put back into the movie?

I know I would, even if I knew it didn't include any new gore or nudity.
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post #38 of 39
2/23/05 at 9:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borgosi
A poorly executed movie with gore, and sex is still a poorly executed movie.

There are those movies like Dario Argento's Phenomena that are cut for no other reason than to be able to get in more showings in a day. It was cut by 28 mins. and the title was changed to "Creepers". Story was cut. When that happens I will watch a movie I didn't like before. However 2 or 3 mins. of gore or sex spread out over 90 mins can't change a movie enough to make it good if the story isn't there, or to make a classic bad if the story is there.

How many of us would rush out and buy "Children Of The Living Dead" if we heard they were releasing a directors cut with 6 mins. of missing gore?

I know I wouldn't.

How many of us would rush out and buy a new copy of "Night Of The Living Dead" if we heard that it would include 6 mins. of footage that Romero lost and had now found and put back into the movie?

I know I would, even if I knew it didn't include any new gore or nudity.
I agree completely. Story matters to me more than anything in horror films (hell, films in general). Gore, Sex, and an R rating do not make a film good. If the story is shit, then even nice effects usually can't save it.
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post #39 of 39
3/13/05 at 7:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FRIGHT
"finnaly, Lion's gate is releasing"Haute tension" --NC-17.....and that film, along with "Murder-Set-Pieces" ------finnnaly opening in dozens of theatres will show the public the shit they used to be able to see all the time in the 1970's and early 1980's. That's the reality of it.
This post disturbs me for various reasons, not the least among them being that Haute Tension is an atrocious piece of shit that should be kept out of the field of vision of every intelligent filmgoer on the planet.
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