Position: The American Godzilla movie isn't all that bad

RUN, Frank! Run while you still can!

We'll give you a headstart.

False.

I kinda like the American Godzilla. It's totally lacking of any of the charm the old movies had, but I enjoyed some of the action sequences.

I don't think it was the King Ghidora-sized fuck up that people claimed it was.

Except it ceases to be a Kaiju movie about twenty minutes in and becomes a feeble attempt to be JURASSIC PARK III. With stupid jokes about coffee.

Budget for GODZILLA '98: $125m
Budget for GODZILLA VS MEGAGUIRUS: $104, 000

The thing is, Devlin and Emmerich make the worst mistake possible: Nobody cares about Matthew Broderick getting together with his annoying as fuck ex. Godzilla flicks are called so because the star is The Big G - not some human guy. Even Akira Kubo knows that.

Besides, everyone knows Godzilla ain't no chick!

Yeah, the last 20 minutes are pretty cringe inducing.

There are PLENTY of Toho Godzilla flicks that waste just as much time on their human characters as the American one did. And with much worse acting.

As a giant monster movie, it's a piss-poor effort.

The evidence:

1. Too much time spent with a bland and characterless human cast.

2. A monster that spends most of the movie hiding underground.

3. Evacuating New York is achieved amazingly quickly, and thus removes all sense of danger or threat from the concept. "Oh no! Property damage!"

4. On that subject, a giant monster that walks between skyscrapers is not a giant monster I want to know.

5. The movie is stranded between fantasy and reality. If you're going to have a giant radioactive lizard, is it really that much more crazy to have him blast energy beams from his mouth?

6. Ditto for the eggs nonsense. Not only is it a lame Jurassic Park rip-off (the movie is called Godzilla, not Godzillas) but it introduces a gaping plothole - why does the creature swim halfway round the globe to lay eggs in New York? What was wrong with the islands where it lived?

7. And, yes, the Japanese movies are hardly airtight examples of plotting - but they are also clearly fantasy movies. See: Point 5.

So it pretty much fails - even as an update of The Beast From 20,000 Fathoms (which it more closely resembles - with a dash of Gorgo thrown in).

As a Godzilla movie?

It isn't. In any way.

It's like making a two-hour episode of Murder She Wrote and marketing it as a Sherlock Holmes adventure.

Godzilla is a character, not a generic lizard.

The Japanese series has thrown up both classics and turds in its time, but every single one of them - yes, even Son Of Godzilla - has more charm than this bloated, pointless piece of marketing-as-movies horseshit.

Frank, if it's any consolation, I don't see why people love the Japanese Godzilla movies so much either, other than for nostalgia's sake. I've never found them charming, engaging, or even entertaining, beyond the curiosity level. I can admire the craft in making them, but I don't think they're good movies.

That scratching sound you hear is me being removed from Whitehead's Christmas card list...

But then you love the SW prequels.

I don't love them, but I also don't have seething, unbridled hatred for them either.

I'd rather play Tie Fighter than watch the prequels. I'd rather watch the prequels than see balsa wood Tokyo get stomped again.

Isn't Godzilla the "bad guy" in some movies, then a "good guy" in others? I can never keep up.

And if Godzilla is a character, he sure never has much of an arc, unless showing up and killing different monsters and stomping on buildings and getting caught in power lines can be considered an "arc".

I can understand some of the fondness people hold for these films, and Godzilla is certainly a monster icon, and deservedly so, but I think some people like to inject a lot of subtext into the movies that just isn't there.

I tried to watch the film back when it was released to video, (damn I was still in high school I think), It was retarded and I turned it off halfway through.



But who could forget the magnificent peice of audible crapp that PuffDaddy gave to the world. Not only did he completely screw a Led Zepplin classic, but the lurics made absolutely no sense to boot. All thanks to that god-awful remake.

I'm not sure I follow you. The only subtext I can really think of is the atomic bomb stuff, which is definitely there as it is in similar American movies of the period, such as THEM!

I'm certainly not about to start trying to convince people of the value of Toho's movies.

I, for instance, think the Friday 13th movies are uniformly wretched from beginning to end and can't comprehend the enthusiastic affection people - like Charles - have for them. And if I were to list all the things I dislike about them, most fans would probably say "Yep, that's true" and continue loving the Voorhees.

There's a great book called Godzilla On My Mind by a guy called Dr William Tsutsui. He's an associate professor of history, and shameless Godzilla fan. It's not an academic book by any means, but he does look at how this camp rubbery monster came to have such a lasting impact, at the culture and society that shaped the franchise and the politics and mythology that lurked underneath the surface. And all the while acknowledging that the movies are cheap and silly monster films.

And you can write a book like that about the Japanese Godzilla. It's silly, yes, but it's also rich and vibrant and unique.

You can't say any of those things about the US version. It's just a flabby generic blockbuster.

But all of this is beside the point. The thesis is "American Godzilla isn't all that bad". But it is. It's awful. And not just in comparison to the originals, so any arguments of "Well, the old Godzilla movies are stupid too" are redundant.

On its own terms, Godzilla is a bad film. It's bland, boring and soulless.

That it's supposedly an "improved" remake (and don't get me started on the Western-centric arrogance that Devlin and Emmerich showed throughout the process) of an old franchise just rubs salt in the wound.

Actually, most of the Godzilla movies have some sort of commentary behind them - it's just commentary on Japanese culture and society of the time that is meaningless in the West today. The way the Japanese military are portrayed through the franchise is a major recurring theme, reflecting Japan's post-war identity crisis. Sometimes they're noble defenders, other times they're inept idiots. That's totally deliberate.

I like the "American Godzilla" movie. I just wish it had been called something different Godzilla isn't really in it. It's a good monster movie, it's not a good Godzilla movie.

See, that's my point. It's neither.

There's no threat, no danger, no sense of scale. For a movie about a monster attacking New York it's horribly uneventful.

All this time I thought I was the only one.

Rock on, Frank. I too greatly enjoy the American Godzilla movie. It's got a sense of style, a fast paced story, and great action. And Jean Reno. I love the scale of the thing, too - this giant monster than can run faster than an attack helicopter and burrows under New York. I think the Japanese Godzilla movies are sort of seen as sacred, and hence a big-budget Hollywood interpretation of them was I guess destined to crash and burn.

Well, we're in agreement about the Jason flicks, that's for sure.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, let's not dive off the deep end here. Both of these films are fine action-adventure romps in their own stead.


Praising Godzilla and knocking Con Air in the same day, damn. Ballsy.

Honestly, yes.

I don't hate it just because I'm a Godzilla fan (though the fact it bears the 'Zilla name irks me).

It's a really, really weak film. Poorly paced, badly written, devoid of any spark or wit.

There are no appealing characters. I actively wanted all the human characters to die.

But that was never going to happen because the monster is a curiously coy animal that spends more time hiding than being an actual monster.

The movie makes absolutely no use of the New York setting. The notion of a monster - any monster - running amok in the Big Apple should've been enough to at least lift it to the level of passable cheese, but the Empire State Building, Statue of Liberty, all the icons are ignored.

The Chrysler building takes it in the chops, and there's a dimly lit scene which we're told is Central Park, but that's it.

Speaking of which, a giant monster movie where more damage is done by the military than by the monster is missing the point spectacularly.

By taking the politically correct route and clearing Manhattan of people, the movie removes all spectacle and drama from the concept of a giant lizard in a crowded city.

It's a mish-mash of cliches from the Kaiju genre, King Kong, Beast From 20,000 Fathoms, Jurassic Park...there's not a single thing in the movie that hasn't been done before, and done better.

There's no awe, no spectacle. The movie shuffles along, embarassed by its own ancestry but arrogantly believing that simply by existing - by being a modern US blockbuster with CGI effects - it'll be an improvement anyway.

It's a lazy, half-hearted and cynical movie that fails to deliver even a quarter of the base level popcorn thrills you'd expect from a movie about a huge lizard attacking a major city.

For my money, it's the epitome of that horrible mid-to-late 90s period where movies like Lost In Space, Armageddon and The Avengers stank up screens with their hateful presence.

The line between "not bad" and "plain old bad" is vague at the best of times, and I guess you could argue back and forth as to where this particular film falls til the end of time. I honestly don't think the film deserves the effort required to, as you say, defend mediocrity.

I'm sorry, but I just got to say, the Broderick Godzilla movie was the single most disappointing movie I ever saw in my life. The teaser trailers for this movie were so great, coming at intervals all year before this movie was released, that the difference between how great they were vs how terrible this movie actually was, was almost enough to make me die right there in the theater. of embarrasment for myself for having been so excited to see this turd.

Well, there's a slim chance you could possibly get a democrat to respect *some* aspects of the Bush administration. But there's no chance in hell you could get the Godzilla-haters to relent one iota.

Hey, I liked this flick. When I saw it, it entertained me. End of friggin' story.

I'd never deny that Toho have churned out some stinkers over the years. Godzilla X Mechagodzilla was pretty fucking shabby as well. But then, it's their franchise and I don't really consider the fact that one movie is poor to be an excuse for another movie to be poor.

The American Godzilla is shitty in a way that only US blockbusters can be. Dismissive of the audience, an arrogant assumption that money and effects will bludgeon us into feeling entertained.

Even the worst of the Toho flicks feels like it's trying to entertain honestly. They don't always succeed but there's a heart and enthusiasm behind the failure.

An intangible argument, I know, but that's how I see it.

I went in expecting a dumb movie, certainly, but I thought that a blockbuster budget spent on a giant monster movie must surely result in something that at least met the basic criteria of the genre in a cheesily entertaining bombastic way.

But it was boring. For all the reasons I listed above.

I was riveted by a great many movies when I was a kid, some were great, most were crap. I loved Star Wars. I also thought Flash Gordon was equally good, if not better. As a litmus test, it's hardly reliable.

This is a very good point, and I heartily agree. While I don't care for the films at all beyond the MST3K fun of sitting around with a group of friends and making fun of the effects and dialogue, it's easy to see that they were made with affection and a certain innocent kind of earnest-ness. They never look like they're just trying to cash a paycheck, which the American Godzilla does in spades.

I'm sorry, but it was Godzilla in name only.

American Godzilla = bad remake of Beast From 20,000 Fathoms.

Frank, you get major props for showing your little one some of the newer G movies. But how could anyone not dig that awesome scene of the chick "riding Godzilla" in the ocean to attach the transmitter?

I'll agree that the new movies are very hit and miss. They're an anthology. Each takes place in it's own universe.

For a sophisticated but fun G experience check out the 1990's flicks. They basically ignore all the previous G films except the original. The first two, Godzilla 1985 and Godzilla vs. Biollante aren't available on DVD but the rest are. Godzilla 1985 had a very strong anti-nuclear/arms race message that came through despite the Americans putting in Dr. Pepper jokes and Raymond Burr comic relief. If you want to see what the American Godzilla could have been, watch this film's suspensefully shot first Godzilla sequence (which Spielberg later "borrowed" for Jurassic Park's T-rex attack 8 years later) and the very graphic destruction of Tokyo Bay .

Each film is a direct sequel to the other and there are recurring characters. Frank, if you get the chance please check out Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla (the 1993 version, not the 2003 or 70's crappy one). They just released it on DVD and it's well worth a rental. Even better, try the 1992 Godzilla vs. King Ghidora. It deals with controversial themes like U.S. Imperialism and explains in detail why the Japanese see Godzilla as both savior and demon. Godzilla vs. Destroyah is a sequel to the 1954 film and is cool because they actually kill him off.

I'm not a fan of Godzilla by any stretch, they were fun movies, nothing more. The only part of the movie I liked was the moment where we see Godzilla for the first time and that foot crashes onto the bridge, goddamn that was impressive, the movie quickly went downhill from there.

I remember the night I went to see it in the theaters. Maybe it was my imagination, but there seemed to be an excruciatingly long pause after the order to blow up Madison Square Garden, almost as if the director wanted to leave space for the audience to cheer. Much in the same way sitcom actors have to wait until the laughs have ended to deliver their next line.

Of course no one in the theater made a sound.

But I agree with the main criticism that it was a poorly received because it was a wasted opportunity. Here they had this huge production with a massive budget. They had the chance to pull off from a technical standpoint everything that the low-budget Japanese movies were unable to do, but unfortunately were unable to give it any sense of charm or even excitement which the Japanese versions sometimes did very well.

My best friend and I also went to see Godzilla 2000 and the difference was huge. We were thoroughly entertained. Most of it I admit came from laughing our asses off, but there were also one or two action sequences that were more entertaining on a visceral level than anything in the American version.

The American Godzilla is a genuinely bad movie. But, it's one of my favorite genuinely bad movies.

For all it's flaws, I found it very entertaining. I didn't see it in the movie theater, but on DVD, and I knew it's reputation so I was expecting a suck-fest. I just didn't expect it to be such an enjoyable one.

G running through Manhattan chased by helicopters, and the 'copters blowing the bejeezus out of the skyscrapers... MSG and the baby 'zillas... thrusting his snout at the screen while trying to chomp the 'actors'... chasing the car over the bridge... having the fucking car in his mouth... this film was just so over-the-top, and became increasingly absurd at the end. I loved it.

Bear in mind, I am very forgiving with films (a sufficiently entertaining sequence or two redeems a film for me), and I was realy fucking high when I saw it. I have since seen it sober, and was still amused.

I fully understand why folks despise it, but there are some scant few of us, it seems, who managed to squeeze some thrills and chuckles from this wonderful turd.

EDIT: I should add that I used to have nightmares about being chased by Godzilla. One of the most memorable was me hiding in my high school with G outside, trying to find me. No matter which room I hid in, Godzilla would locate it and look at me through the window - marvellously unsettling!! Thus, the sequence when G was chasing the car near the end really struck a chord with me. Shit, I gotta get me this DVD.

I actually found this movie to be fairly entertaining. It just shouldn't have been called Godzilla. This is just a generic lizard, not the legendary Godzilla, who as others have said is a distinct character. He's a bad ass who takes all you can throw at him and just keeps coming. He doesn't run around hiding like in this film.

A secondary problem is the New York setting. Why the hell did Godzilla swim halfway around the world just to get there? If they had to set it in the US it should have been Hawaii or California.

Of course, most of the Japanese films are far from perfect as well. They need to follow the model of The Grudge and Ring 2 and bring the Japanese creative staff into Hollywood to make a film that keeps the heart and message of Godzilla but adds good acting and incredible effects.

I had a big fucking problem with the constantly changing size and proportion of Godzilla.

But I dated the hot niece of the lead female, so I'm cool with GINO.

Frank, usually I agree with you, but not today. Not today.

I think it was someone on these boards who said it best using the following example, which I will attempt to restate:
If they made a new Batman movie where some guy gets fed up with crime in Smalltown, Nebraska, so he decides to fight crime wearing rainbow pants and a multi-colored fedora while calling himself Batman, would you be disappointed? It'd be called Batman, but it just wouldn't be.

Add that into the fact that the movie fails as a kaiju movie, for reasons stated above. I mean, two or three scenes of the big monster smashing while the rest of the movie he hides underground? Not destroying the big landmarks we all associate with NY (although this could have led to trouble with 9/11). New York being evacuated of people? All things that a good giant monster movie would have handled better. And that's not even getting into the velociraptor rip-offs that the baby 'zillas were.

Godzilla smashes buildings, he doesn't hide underground. Godzilla spits radioactive energy, not fireball breath. Godzilla doesn't lay eggs. Godzilla can smash a cab in his mouth just as well as an attack chopper. And Godzilla never, repeat never would have been taken out by plain missles.

The American Godzilla movie was not a Godzilla movie, and it wasn't that good of a giant monster movie. It has one or two scenes that I enjoy (giant lizard vs. military), a bunch of filler crap (Ferris Buler and his dopey girlfriend), and a lot of uninspired Jurassic Park rip-offs. And, for my closing arguement, I would just like to say the following: Mayor Ebert?!?

The worst part for me is I saw it twice in the theaters. My girlfriend at the time wanted to go see it, but she had to wait a couple days so she could get back into town. I was excited to go so I saw it the day it came out but didn't tell her. Then it was so dumb, but I couldn't say anything, and had to see it again with her.
*Sigh* Then, I'm a glutton for punishment, so I bought a home copy.
I have to go with everyone that said it was ok except for the baby G's. The fact that supposedly the Godzillas would take over and rule the world was enough of a conflict for me, but the whole JP running from the raptor looking little zillas was so dumb.
The only scene I really like is when big G climbs up one of the big buildings and you finally get a good look at him/her (I think it was right after he/she munches all the helicopters), and he/she leans back and roars and the lightning crashes. That whole thing was nice. Not much else though; even the strange King Kong bit w/ the heartbeat at the end was more of a ripoff than a tribute.
I still like Jean Reno though, despite the weird character. "I thought you said this was French Roast?" Wow.

Wasnt the atomic bombing of Japan the reason Godzilla was created, and so each Japanese film has that subtext running through it, as fantastical as the plots all seem, Godzilla is tied with Japanese cultural identity, a monster movie is just a monster movie, but a movie with Godzilla is something else, its Japanese first and foremost. And so when Americans remake it, isnt it some sort of complete and utter faux pas, and maybe some type of cultural burglary!? Erasing the subtext of America's bombing and occupation tendencies by diluting and 're-imagining' the movie into a tepid, tame, soulless, shallow, meaningless putrid piece of shit with Jean Reno on top? Or something, I dunno, why the fuck am I in this thread anyway...

"Wasnt the atomic bombing of Japan the reason Godzilla was created,"
Nope, it was created because Toho saw how well "The Beast From 20'000 Fathoms" did in It's Japanese release, and decided a Japanese giant monster on a rampage movie would clean up at the box office. Andan Atomic blast was the easiest explanation for the monster. BTW "Beast From 20'000 Fathoms" and"THme" both used that plot before "Godzilla".
"Godzilla is tied with Japanese cultural identity'
Considering how silly some of the later Godzilla movies got, that's an insult to Japanese Culture. whatever Subtext there was disappread when it became a series of films aimed at kids.
"And so when Americans remake it, isnt it some sort of complete and utter faux pas, and maybe some type of cultural burglary!"
Not that simple, considering how "Beast from 20'000 Fathoms" was a direct inspriation for "Godzilla". Everybody is guilty of cultural burglary somewhere along the line.
"a tepid, tame, soulless, shallow, meaningless putrid piece of shit "
Can't argue there. The Emmerich Godzilla sucked...as has just about every other film Emmrich has directed.
My greatest hate for Emmerich is reserved for the way he screwed up "The Patriot". There is a great movie waiting to be made about the American Revolution, but "Patriot" sure isn't it. If he did rape Japanese culture in His "Godzilla", he raped American History in "The Patriot". Emmerich is an equal opportunity offender when it comes to shitty film making.
BTW Jean Reno was one of the few entertaining things about the Emmerich "Godzilla".
I have become very cynical about Subtexts. You can find a subtext for just about anything in just about anything if can bullshit good enough.
Deconstrutionism is one of the biggest intellectual frauds ever perpetuated and a bunch of highly educated suckers.

Interesting info dudalb...

On a scary note, imagine a movie produced by Bruckheimer, written by Emmerich, directed by Bay...

*shudders*

The first one was an allegory for nuclear devistation. Or at least it could be defended using that arguement. However, it's the only one that can use that defense. The rest are just giant monster fun.

Denying the subtext of the original Godzilla is ludicrous. Whatever motivations Toho had for greenlighting the project, it's obvious the director's take on the material was a reaction to the bombings. The recent rerelease makes this even more apparent.

This is true, though the idea of the only nation in the world to suffer two atomic strikes using the spectre of nuclear devastation (personified in an unstoppable monster) less than ten years after the bombs dropped has to have been something rather more than just "the easiest explanation".

It's like making an American movie about a flying monster from the middle east that crashes into skyscrapers and denying any resemblance to 9/11.

It's not really an insult. Godzilla is considered a national icon in Japan, one of their most successful and omnipresent exports. It's not more insulting than the notion that Mickey Mouse is considered an icon of American culture.

I'm no fan of that sort of thinking either, but there's a danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. While there are those who'll find socio-psychological depth in an episode of Captain Caveman, it's also true that it's often the most "meaningless" pop culture artefacts that say the most about the culture that spawned them.

So while the later Godzilla films are corny kids movies, that doesn't mean there isn't something else at work there - consciously or not. I've already mentioned how the portrayal of Godzilla/Japanese military varies depending on the mood of the Japanese nation, and the old China/Japan rivalry is often used as a plot device.

Even the silliest entries in the series have been used to make sly comments on world events. King Kong vs Godzilla is "just a monster movie", but it's also an interesting look at the US/Japanese relationship from their point of view. Even when the movies don't try to make a point, they can't help but carry a subtext because of when and where they were made.

They may not be David Lynch movies, but to write them off as utterly meaningless kids fare is to do a disservice to the intelligent craftsmen who worked on them.