Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion Discussion Thread - Page 9

Fucking painted trolls!

I loved that one! And nothing sells better than Painted Troll Fat.

Despite my nigh-saintly demeanor, I somehow STILL manage to kill a guy and get invited into the Dark Brotherhood.

He asked for it, though! Literally!

I have yet to murder, but I did break into the house that leads to the Brotherhood's lair. When I got to the door and was asked what the color of night is, I was irritated that I couldn't answer 'Jane March'.

I went back and killed everyone in hackdirt.

There's an easy way to kill those painted trolls - [spoiler]not really a spoiler, but a hint. Just let one see you, and then run up onto any one of those rock formations that are all over the place. The trolls can't climb or jump up after you, so I'd just hit them with a turpentine poisoned arrow and then summon a skeleton to wail on them while I shot more arrows down at them. They all went down like bitches.[/spoiler]

Am I the only one who's used the Dorian glitch to get an assload of gold?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...livion&pl=true

This video is quite incredible. I never really noticed the weather effects and stuff until I took a look at it.

Is that really a five and a half minute long clip of clouds in a video game?

Oblivion is good at pointing out the members of our society in a desperate need of being culled.

And with it being spead up like it is, someone had to let their computer sit there and record the clouds going by for hours.

Damn.

I just thought it looked pretty and it was interesting that they actually had clouds...and oh fuck I'm defending myself against Devin I might as well just top myself now.

It is very pretty, and a testament to the work these people will put in to create an immersive secondary world.

I wonder if Devin ever parked up by the beach In GTA and just listened to the radio? Or posted a picture of his character wearing a jetpack?

No. I am not a fruit.

But seriously, I am usually the last guy to say this, but go the fuck outside of your house. They have clouds there. And it has a better frame rate.

It's raining.

Now, see, if they had used Philip Glass's Koyanasquatsi soundtrack, then they may have had something.

I can't stare at the sky where I am, the air is caustic.

I found out why I got killed so much in my first attempt to get Martin....instead of coming up the road and being told I had to go in the Oblivion gate first, I went cross country and came up the back way, and snuck around the gate...hence taking on a group of bad guys that I wasn't supposed to take on myself. Oops.

When extra gates open am I supposed to be able to close them, or am I just supposed to be looting Oblivion?

I find giant oak trees being shaken by light wind hard to believe.

You're supposed to be able to close them. Each Oblivion area has one major tower. You'll always know which one it is, because it's the tallest, and has a big bright yellow sigil on the outside near the top. Sometimes it's easy to get into and get up to the Sigil Stone, sometimes you have to open a lot of war gates and work your way there.

OK, after spending too much of my weekend playing this, I have to say it's not that great. It's a glorified hack n' slash, Diablo with more walking. The quests are singularly inane - talk to this guy, follow the dot on your compass to that spot, kill that and take the item to the other spot on your compass.

I can't imagine the game will have any replay value - you can join every single guild. I was worried that being in the Mage Guild would mean I wouldn't be able to be a Fighter - nope! I have like six different affiliations right now. Loyalty divided indeed.

As for the depth - what depth? It's big, sure, and you can take it in any order, but you're still going to get the same quests with the same outcomes, whether you start in Anvil or Bruma or wherever.

And forget playing as a bad guy - this world has psychic police, who show up wherever I am and arrest me the second I steal something or kill someone. They may have no emperor, but they have a damn fine police force!

Speaking of no emperor, wouldn't it be nice if there was some kind of fallout from that? I hide Martin away and help some lady kill mountain lions in her basement. There's no sense of urgency to the main quest, which is dumb. They go through all the trouble of making pretty clouds but there's no sense of reality to the world at all. Hell, someone can tell me to meet them at midnight tonight and I can spend three months futzing around as long as I come to them at midnight some night. All the rag doll physics they can fit in and none of the game play manages to feel real as a result. Radiant AI makes the people in the world seem more like low functioning retards than the robots that you have in other RPGs, but they're still retarded.

Let's not even talk about how poorly implemented the level scaling is. It doesn't make any sense - break into a rich man's house when you're level 1 and get 3 gold and a pair of pants after you expend 200 lock picks breaking into his chest. Break into that same house ten levels later and his loot has leveled up with you - makes no sense! And why does every being in the world level up with me? There are no more level one wolves or mudcrabs anymore? Aspects of level scaling works, but on the whole it's stupid. There's something really wrong with your leveling system when I am waiting to go to sleep so I don't level up so I can handle the monsters in the next Oblivion gate. I run into bandits carrying better armor than I have because they've scaled with me.

I haven't run into that many bandits, though - the world is weirdly empty as I travel through it. I mean, I can't run ten feet without stubbing my toe on a ruin, but there's just not much going on outside of these designated action areas.

The game is OK, and it's pretty, but it's pretty ho-hum in general.

Edit: I forgot the thing that's annoying me the most - disposition and speechcraft. I can sit there and spend an infinite amount of time telling jokes, admiring, boasting to and threatening these people until I get what I want. That's ignoring the fact that the game MAKES me admire someone even if I know that they hate it. It's a stupid mini-game that wastes time.

Credits Due, Oblivion Gates Destroyed

credit to Devin for at least giving it another shot. i understand his problems with it, and i think thats endemnic to the genre. calling it a glorified hack n' slash, though, is like calling half life 2 a glorified FPS. some poeple will like it a >whole< lot, and other people will think its dumb. that's cool, everyone has an issue with something.

for those tryin to pick locks - just tap a tumbler till it hits a 'short' spring. that is, when you hit it it comes back down almost immediately. you'll be able to identify this with just a little practice. after seeing (or hearing) a short spring the next tap will be veeery long, so just be calm and you'll lock it. easy greasy. of course, this becomes irrelevant eventually, but its useful knowledge.

Fallout 3 - pretty please

the greatest things about the Elder Scrolls, i think, is the infinite modification. Devins complaints about the pyschic police is relevant, cause those fuckers do possess superhuman crime fighting ability (like the Commish). but there's already a mod out that re-works the cop AI so they cant bust you if you're crime is unseen and unreportable. while downloading it, extracting it, and executing an .ess mod is probably too much for someone just playing oblivion to see what it is before moving on; but for those who really appreciate the Elder Scrolls games, this is a feature singular in its scope.

my copy of Morrowind is almost completely rehauled from the original default version . . . the graphics are >far< more than serviceable, even after oblivion, the AI is castly improved, the combat is closer to Oblivion than default Morrowind, there's slo mo and custom items and titty bars, etc. The Construction Set is unlike anything else out there, and the community it fosters is among the best in any RPG. No (or >very< few) MMORPG 7337 PwwzORZ, no elitist, no brownshirts, just people who love what Bethesda does. If you dont have the time for it, or think its kinda dumb and irrelevant, that's fine, go fuck with some other shit. easy greasy.

please, fallout 3

->Big Swing

The problem with the Elder Scrolls series as a whole is that they sacrifice a great deal of purpose for a more free form play style. Essentially they try and make the game as open as possible for players and in doing so it lacks any real purpose. Sure the main quest is an interesting diversion, but unless you are willing to invest yourself in the gameplay and actually play a role within the world then it's going to be a hollow experience. You have to make the decision not to join the fighters guild if your a mage. Which is a pretty huge fallacy in itself.

Oblivion is only worth what you put into it. If you invest time and patience in building your own narrative then the game works, if you don't then it is a simple hack and slash game.

With regards to immediacy that is another example of the game trying to cater to everyone. A lot of people won't do the main quest and would get upset if forced, which means that you can leave the entire world in stasis if you wish. I just ploughed through the MQ straight off and then spent the time after game over joining guilds etc.

However I would suggest joining the Dark Brotherhood, kill a dude and get an invite, and the Thieves guild, get yourself in jail and break out, as these missions tend to break away from the hack and slash nature of the game.

I like level scaling, aside from the loot aspects. It keeps the game nice and challenging, and the progression of critters seems a lot more natural than the zones of the traditional rpgs. There are pieces of unique equipment around, and enchantments from the oblivion gates should give you an advantage against the bandits.

Edit: I immediatley thought of Koyaanisqatsi when I saw that video...

Also how can anyone not love a game with moments like this

In your more linear RPGs (lilke Baldur's Gate) and MMORPGs, increasing player levels are handled by sending you to increasingly difficult areas. You can go back to the lower level areas and wade through hordes of level 1 critters (not that you'll get any experience for it). But in that case, the story in on rails, so to speak -- it's not the free-form exploration that The Elder Scrolls allows, so for things to move forward, you have to go on to tougher critters. With TES being more relaxed, they had to come up with something so that if you stayed in the same area doing quests for a while, you didn't end up overpowering opponents after a time. While I'm not sure the level-scaling is the best way to do it (the game could simply generate tougher creatures as you go along while leaving the weakers ones in place), I understand the reasoning behind it.

The level scaling works. Weak enemies stay weak, tough enemies stay tough. If I were level 11, and still getting manhandled by a simple wolf, I'd complain.

I've noticed an interesting tendancy of my long distance bow strike one-shotting enimies in the groin. Hrm. Maybe I have latent issues.

I could never get into Diablo (and wasn't a huge fan of Morrowind or Daggerfall, either), and I love this game, so this is a true case of Yor Milage May Vary.
This actually reminds me more of Masquerade: Bloodlines.

The depth is in the amount of stuff you can do (or ignore, or whatever), like in GTA. It's not a matter of the world being totally changed by everything you do, so that quests turn out differently depending on the order of how you do them, people are just impressed by how much there is to do, period.

That's exceedingly annoying (although stealing and B&E need to be done in sneak, and you can kill folks without anyone but the Dark Brotherhood noticing) and a point of contention with many people. (The game has many flaws, no one's denying that.) Someone mentioned a patch to fix that....where is it? Is there a good site for mods?
I found this:
http://www.tescreens.be/oblivionmodw.../Category:Mods


I wholeheartedly agree with you on this.

I disagree with pretty much everything you said in your post (aaaah, the wonder of opinion!) so I won't waste your time or mine taking you point by point - but this needed replying to. What would be the point of me finding a Level 8 enchanted doo-wazzit at Level 1 if I can't use it/carry it/wield it? The game rewards you as you progress. The weapons/armour/spells/enemies level up with you to reward you for playing the game well. It also creates sustained goals - I know that by the time I reach Level 15, I'm going to be getting to use some amazing spells/weapons against some huge, gnarly beasties. It's incentive. It's a reason (among countless I could rattle off) to continue playing. The game grows and evolves as you do. Which is just one of the unequivocally stunning things about it.

It seems to me that the only difference between going against a monster at level 1 and level 15 is the bells and whistles. Level scaling means that there's essentially a constant level of difficulty, and that it's just the monster skins and spell effects that change.

Try fighting an ogre or minotaur the way you'd fight a rat. Besides which, you'll still have smaller critters to kill in one hit, you'll have better equipment the ability to enchant etc. Level Scaling gives you a slight advantage over time and allows you to use combat options. Of course it also means that you'll never be a god, you'll always be just one step ahead of the curve. If you played Morrowind you'd know how dull the game got after you reached level 20, you could kill practically everything and just stand around absorbing punishment from the final boss before you flicked your wrist and vapourised him with one spell.

The battle against Cameron is far more rewarding and skill based.

Devin, I fail to see how that's fundamentally different from any game. And I've found that there isn't a constant level of difficulty. The game has been getting progressively more challenging, as I've leveled. I'm glad for that, since a major problem with Morrowind was that you could very easily just outlevel everything, and be left with a very pretty world with little to no incentive to poke around.

Oblivion isn't without flaws, it's not perfect. But for the type of game it is, being an action oriented "free-form" RPG, it's pretty much the best to come down the pipe. Yes, all games, RPGs in particular, are essentially "move up in level, fight bigger monsters with bigger weapons/spells". But it's how the game achieves that that makes it great.

And last night I think I got anally raped by an angry ghost.

I have fought every single enemy essentially the same way - shield up until they hit me, slash slash slash slash slash. Unless I want some skill points in magic, then I use some spells. Sometimes I hit them with arrows, again for skill points.

I guess I'm old fashioned, but I like that "Holy shit" moment in a regular RPG where you walk into a room and see a monster ten levels above you and you have to run out and beef up to take him on. In Oblivion you just have to be smart with your improvements when leveling up and everything stays on essentially the same level. If you run into monsters you can't handle and run out to beef up, when you meet those monsters again they'll be much tougher.

All valid points Devin makes, but I just love the fuck out of this game, my only gripe is the leveling system, does every fucking monster in a cave or fort now have to be my level, some times its fun to abuse your god like powers and kill rats and goblins without fear of being hurt. But besides that , its a blast of a game , and as for your quest gripe Dev, you should try the dark brotherhood quests, theres about 10 or so, its not many but they're defintely different from the rest of them.

I still found rats at level 17...

Edit: Devin, strength in battle is more about how you equip yourself and use your skill than psyhically overpowering your foe. Enchantments are the new level up IMO

I'm not going to try to convince you the game is awesome, but it's pretty fucking awesome.

Two of my friends have the game... one on the 360 and one on PC. I agree that the leveling system is flawed but I love watching them bitch and moan when they have to fight rats with a level 11 and the such.

The leveling system for encounters isn't flawed, IMO, it's just different. You do find big beasties now and then but generally they make the game always enjoybale without being too easy.

Item scaling is almost game ruining for thieves though, stuff popping into existence only when you reach a certain level is laughable.

Horse Armour is available for download for the X-Box 360. At $5 it's fucking steep for 2 new textures...

Fuck that. I hardly ever use any of my horses anyway.

So, what's the link for the mod to make the cops more realistic and not super-psychic?

I've never had that problem to be honest, but I've mastered sneak.

http://www.tescreens.be/oblivionmodw.../Category:Mods

Found this interesting article:http://www.gamespot.com/features/fre...?story=6147016

"Oblivion is so good, it will kill the RPG genre!"

Okay, I've had this game since thursday. I had rented the game from Gamefly although I just fully purchased the game from them today ($46.99!). I'm still waiting for the booklet and case to come in but I have a stupid question to ask.

When you pull the menu up for your items and armor, there are these symbols along the top. The symbols are- a round object(can't tell what it is), a feather, a shield, and a heart. What do these symbols mean? I figured that the feather tells you how much weight the item will put on you. But can't tell what the others represent.

Appreciate the help.

The round thing is a coin (shows the items value), the feather is the weight, the shield is how good the item is (a level 1 sword sucks, a level 9 is better), and the heart is the condition of the item (after taking so much damage items have to be repaired).

Thank you very much. Now I know what's worth keeping and what's not.

For those playing on the 360 version.

According to IGN, you can now buy horse armor via Xbox 360 marketplace.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/699/699821p1.html

Before anyone purchases it, they should really say out loud "I'm going to pay $2.50 to download horse armor" just so they can hear how stupid it sounds before making the commitment.

In Soviet Russia...Oblivion Gate closes you.

Sorry.

Okay I take back what I said about paying for mods...the two new ones, the mage castle in particular...look pretty awesome.

https://obliviondownloads.com/StoreC...ubCategoryId=1

Are these all XBox only?

X Box and PC.

PC users get 50 cents off...

The orrery mod actually seems to involve a quest, and the second mod seems to be akin to the Telvanni keep in Morrowind.

I can't imagine needing new shit to explore for a very long time.

Quick quest-specific question guys - has anyone tried the Garridan's Tears quest? I've found 4, can't find the 5th and its doing my nut - anyone got through it?

Me neither, though I have to admit having my own mage tower might be pretty neat way down the line.