HOLY SHIT! (Clone Wars cartoon) - Page 2

Are you OK, man? Did you not understand my previous post? I clearly said I love the Original Trilogy. I dislike the Prequels so far. For better or worse, those two trilogies are bound together under the collective banner of STAR WARS. So with one, comes the other.

You can have the hottest, most personable, intelligent, fun girlfriend in the entire world but if she farts in the elevator a couple times and embarrasses you, you would just dump her outright? That seems to be the philosophy you're suggesting. If so, that's fucking ridiculous.

And if the STAR WARS films are so "trivial" to you, then why do you even care to follow this thread? Just asking.

I'm okay, man. I don't know why you'd think I wasn't. I understood your post perfectly fine, it's why I asked the questions. I don't know why you didn't answer them, though. Didn't even come close to answering them. Instead you just asked if something was wrong with me. Kinda odd. Almost as odd as this analogy:

Firstly, Star Wars isn't my girlfriend. They're movies. Secondly, if the Prequels were so important for you to utterly detest them, as you put in in your own words, then they're hardly as insignificant as a couple farts in an elevator.

And as for why I post on a messageboard--it's where you discuss trivial things. Are you trying to say trivial things shouldn't be discussed on messageboards, only deathly serious things such as girlfriends who fart in elevators?

See, the problem I'm having understanding your position is that it seems to be all over the place. On the one hand, you claim the prequels cause you personal embarrassment, and that you detest them. And then you compare them directly to a significant other. And then you say that instead of something as deathly important as the personal relationship between two people, you compare the movies to farts in an elevator, which is a pretty trivial transgression.

So what's so ridiculous about the notion of abandoning your interest? Either they're total detestable embarrassments or they're farts in an elevator. I can forgive a fart in an elevator. That's funny shit. A detestable embarrassment? That's something to leave alone, right?

I really like where this is going.

I did answer your question. That's why I'm confused by your confrontational attitude. You suggested that if I'm so embarassed by STAR WARS, I should stop following it. I responded by stating I'm embarassed by the Prequels but NOT the Original Trilogy, so why should I abandon STAR WARS altogether? Are you truly incapable of understanding that quandry? I have now stated that very same position no less than THREE TIMES.

It's an incredibly simple position. It seems that you just want to be argumentative for the sake of arguing and I have no idea why. You're also getting your facts wrong. You claim that I compared the Prequels to a girlfriend. I did no such thing. I compared the entire STAR WARS franchise to a girlfriend and the Prequels to a couple of farts in an elevator, which is giving them far higher praise than they deserve.

Then again, come May 19, I might end up taking your advice after all.

Oy.

That's not at all what I did, and I wasn't confrontational while I did it, and I apologize if that's how you took it. Wasn't the intention at all. When I intend to be confrontational, it's easy to tell (check post 50 for evidence) I just figure since you're very articulate, and I've had these questions for awhile, you'd be a good person to ask.

I didn't suggest you stop following it, and you said that it was all Star Wars, and you said that Star Wars embarrassed you. You were the guy that made sure to explicitly lump it all under the same umbrella. If it's causing you distress to the point where you compare it to a physical relationship with a woman, why are you still so devoted it to it that even the mere idea of not following it any longer is apparently offensive to you?

No, I understood you completely, which is why I said this:

See--Star Wars as the girlfriend, the Prequels as the farts. Understood it perfectly. Then I based some more questions on that understanding to see if I could figure out why the idea of not being a fan is anathema to you.

Basically, what is it about Star Wars that makes the mere notion of not being a fan such an impossibility?

I mean...wouldn't it be easier and more fun at this point to simply not give a shit and move onto other things?

I didn't ask just one question. I asked a handful. I still don't think I actually got a direct answer. Here, I'll repost just the pertinent questions:

Why spend time on something that you consider embarrassing and humiliating?
if it's personally embarrassing you, what's your stake in staying chained to it?
Are you trying to say trivial things shouldn't be discussed on messageboards, only deathly serious things such as girlfriends who fart in elevators?
So what's so ridiculous about the notion of abandoning your interest? Either they're total detestable embarrassments or they're farts in an elevator. I can forgive a fart in an elevator. That's funny shit. A detestable embarrassment? That's something to leave alone, right?


I got some odd accusations, but you never actually directly answered any of the above questions. You just kinda sidestepped em, and then attributed some "advice" to me that I never actually gave you.

Forget it. I give up. You win.

Dude, I wasn't trying to "Win" anything, but it's all love, Litmus. Sorry I rubbed you wrong.

So--anyone else who feels similarly wanna try answering those above questions?

All that's left is someone slapping someone else in the face with a glove. Or a beehive.

Well I finally just saw the cartoons, seasons 1 & 2. WOW. I hope this has some influence on eps 3, because some of it really blew me away. Mace Windu on Tatooine really had be smiling. Then watching Grevious, and a few shots from Eps 3 have me really liking him (esp the shot where he seems to be towering over something).

come on guys, we do all realise you have been arguing over a cartoon of a film franchise.please get a grip.

look i saw the CLONE WARS and they were great i enjoyed them massively and cant wait for the new series but it is still told through georges vision regardless personally i enjoy the films and although they dont cause much emotion in me neither did CLONE WARS, but it is a great companion piece, that deservves to be recognised for being the best star wars supplement to ever come out that hasnt been crap.(holiday special, ewok village and caravan crap, games and books)

so call it quit guys, its great, but aint better than the movies

Yes it is.

But how many times have you seen each installment? Don't forget, you were one of those "Episode I and II were great but after 20 times, I realized they sucked" type of fans.

I admit that they're better in the sense that they don't fail as much from what they set out to be than the prequels do, but come on, if I had to pick between watching the whole arena battle (which pretty much everything in the cartoon is a variation on) or the Maul sabre fight or the Pod race or Jango vs. Obi-Wan (both the Kamino fight and asteroid chase) and watching Clone Wars, I know which one I'd be watching.

Also, fanboys are so determined to use anything as a stick to beat Lucas and his prequels with that I doubt they're putting the cartoon under anywhere near the scrutiny that they would be if it was a full-fledged prequel. If they were picked apart, analyzed, second guessed at every turn, panned by the New York times and the cause celebre of fanboy and net geek ire would they be held up in anywhere near the regard?

I've watched them a lot. I'll be honest, both the arena battle and the podrace really don't get me. Jango vs Obi-Wan is fun, but out of all of those, the end TPM duel is the only one I really find myself rewinding.

I can't stand the Podrace.

I still dig the Arena stuff in AOTC, though. Even if it's chopped to threads.

Well I actually happened to think the arena battle was pretty darn great. The Harryhausen homage was alot of fun (even if there was some too obvious cgi), the Jedi vs. the Droids was somewhat underwhelming (even though the shots of the jedi arriving and all igniting their sabres, along with that Jedi trying to off Dooku before being offed by Jango (and the little gun twirl he does) and Jango's beheading were all cool. But when the clones showed up, it got really awesome to me with the great Republic Gunships (the only ships exclusive to the PT and not significantly evocative of the OT that are cool IMO) and their Death Star-type cannons (ok, that bit, they're evocative of the OT) mowing down droids, along with those great shots of the clones engulfed in dust and debris firing away, plus those awesome (documentary-style) quick zoom ins, and just the irony of the jedi, particulary Yoda leading them, fighting along side what are basically stormtroopers, etc were all awesome and for the most part, set the template of what was to be in the Clone Wars

All the Acklay stuff is great. I especially dig the brutal way in which Obi-Wan dispatches him.

Well the Podrace, to me, represents the both the best and worst of the prequels. On one, it's very fast and furious (and utilizes cgi well to depict what is essentially a traditional Star Wars action sequence: a great chase through an enclosed, cavernous area). So there's lots of POV shots of racing and zooming around. It's all very exhilerating. The sound effects are great and the attention to detail (the way a pod crashes and debris just keeps on spinning) was all very well done.

Yet the podracers themselves are essentially low grade cartoon characters and all too exemplifies the Prequels (and ROTJ's) penchant for getting far too silly for comfort . I mean one looks like a fuckin' chicken (and don't get me started on the 2-headed announcer, especially his "that's gotta hurt" joke).

I really love the podrace. It's a lot of fun to watch, but it could definitely do without the cosmic a-hole announcer guy. Cut off the english speaking head and let the other guy talk next time... But the true saving grace for the podrace sequence (for me at least) is the aural stimulation. It SOUNDS great. I especially dig the chug chug of Sebulba's racer. I don't even have 5.1 audio at home but I could watch that sequence over and over just for the sounds.

I really wish fans would stop trying to psychoanalyze other fans. There is rarely a hidden agenda with how one loves or hates a creative work (aside from studio plants and favored "insiders", but that's another story.)

Here's why I enjoy the CLONE WARS cartoons more than the Prequels (so far):

1) I love Heavy Metal comics, and the whole cyberpunk/"used future" style that artists like Moebius pioneered. As a result, I really enjoyed the Boba Fett short that appeared during the STAR WARS HOLIDAY SPECIAL. And to some degree, I see CLONE WARS as the next step in that alternate, animated world.

2) The CLONE WARS cartoons rely heavily on visual storytelling, not dialogue. The Prequels often fail because they fall into the "tell don't show" trap, which is the antithesis of good filmmaking. That's why I mentioned Kurosawa earlier. CLONE WARS relies on strong, iconic images and rich cinematic moments. The Prequels tend to favor overblown eye candy and awkward expository dialogue.

3) As a kid, in 1977, when Obi-Wan first mentioned The Clone Wars, my imagination was alight with notions of what that conflict actually was, and how it fit in with the overall STAR WARS storyline. Even then, over a quarter century ago, my primary thoughts about the STAR WARS backstory involved The Clone Wars and the final duel between Obi-Wan and Vader. So far, the Prequels have failed to significantly deliver on The Clone Wars angle, and only now, at the end, are we finally getting to the good stuff (hopefully) with EP3. THE CLONE WARS, for all its 2-D limitations, at least tap into that long-imagined storyline.

4) For a brief series of shorts that appears on Cartoon Network, I'm simultaneously relieved and saddened that CLONE WARS feels more mature and weighty than the lavishly-produced features that are EPs 1 and 2. (Hence, my earlier statement about "embarrassment.")

Seriously, my preference for CLONE WARS over the Prequels (so far) has less to do with my disappointment in George Lucas and far more to do with how successful I feel each title has explored the STAR WARS Universe. That's really all it is. I swear.

There are no agendas in here. Only opinions. Now, sometimes these opinions are informed, sometimes they are misinformed. And they can, at times, be myopic and/or biased... but they are just opinions nonetheless. I doubt many will dispute that.

Anyone not sold on this, watch the ARC Trooper episode. Or Chapters 18/19.

Oh, and I love the "Clone Wars" cartoons as well, including the sparse dialoge scenes. Especially exchanges like this:

Ventress: The darkside is strong in me... for I am Sith.

Dooku: Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! A bold claim. But you are not Sith! [levitates down to Ventress] You wear the trappings of the Sith, you fight like the Sith... but these can be imitated, however. You lack a vital quality found in all Sith. Sith have no fear... and I sense much fear in you.

Ventress: You are a foolish old man who knows nothing of the darkside! [ignights lightsabers]

Dooku: Heh. Heh. Heh. Indeed. [zaps Ventress with Force Lightning].

Thanks, Coffn! And I agree that Lucas' best work has come from collaboration with creatively-strong peers. I think Lucas has a wonderful, vibrant imagination...that just needs to be passed through a "good taste" filter now and then. He seems to have isolated himself from even the most constructive criticism, and I think it's made him a lesser storyteller for it.

I hope he stays away from the upcoming TV show, aside from laying the ground rules and sending it off in the right direction. I think some new blood with a little bit of creative freedom could go a long way, as it has with CLONE WARS.

I love the Clone War shorts, in Canada they rarely showed them on teletoon, I caught the Grievous one and the "Mace Windu fucking up those robots with the screws via force" one, so it'll be good to see the whole thing all together, so hell yeah i'm picking this up, and getting another to give to my friend for his birthday.

Grievous in the new series is going to kick ass.

"I can't stand the Podrace."
That is where Lucas went over the line from being influenced by and borrowing from to out and out imitation.
IMHO the only thing that the Podrace does for me is remind me of how much better the Chariot Race in Ben Hur really was.
Kudos to John Williams for his very clever tribute to Miklos Rozsa in his music for the Pod Race, though. A fun homage without going over the line into theft and parody.
BTW I love the Clone Wars Cartoon. Better then anything except the lightsabre duels in TPM . Better then the first half of AOTC,which I felt improved enormously in the second half, and gave me cautious hope for Pt.3.

I just started watching these Clone Wars shorts yesterday and I love them.

I'm starting to like the world that the prequels exist in. Palpatine, the sepratists, the jedi and the clone troopers. I see this world in the Clone Wars cartoon, and also in other material like the Visual dictionary books. But the movies give me this crappy little window into that world which makes it hard to appreciate it.

For instance the visual Dictionary for Ep2 had all this cool stuff about the jedi having different sword fighting styles. I thought it was all great. Then I see the film and there is only snippits of that, but lots of crappy dialog and a shit love story.

That's why I like the Clone Wars, because it helps fill in the interesting stuff I feel is missing from the films. They don't replace the movies, but they add to my understanding of the world of the prequels, and I njoy it more.

". Ben-Hur? Who-Cares? Honestly, these are two very different films so the comparison is pretty silly. But if it makes you happy..."
And there goes whatever creditbility Rottenjesus had left.
So many shots..particularly in the build up the race....are lifted direct from Ben Hur.
And although it has flaws, the 1959 Ben Hur is a million times better a movie then that pile of shit called "The phantom menace".
Now I know why rottenjesus in held in such comtempt at this site. I guess Nick keeps him around because he can furnish so much laughter with his stupidity.

To be fair, the CW cartoons are essentially meaningless when disconnected from either the OT or the PT. They are nice little stories on their own, but build upon the five movies released so far, and people who ignore this are simply living in denial.

Now that that is said, being a PT-fan as well as an OT-fan, I have a question:

If I blasted Rottenjesus for being an anal-leaking fucktard, would that make me a basher or an apologist? You see, due to my intense dislike for most SW-fans in general, I have trouble finding the correct crowd of SW-fandom to join and would like some guidelines. What are the rules for being a basher? Must I write scathing articles about how George Lucas lost his way by compairing the clean Coruscant nightclub with the filthy Mos Eisley cantina? How much Lucas-cock must I suck before being able to call myself an apologist? Must I spend the next six years debating films I don´t like and films on the horizon I´ve already decided to hate, before being let in as a member of the Basher Brigade? How about Jar-Jar worship? Must I write an over-long thesis discussing Jar Jar´s portrayal as the mythical "clown"-archetype before I can circle-jerk with other apologists?

These things are complicated, you see, I just want to find the right SW-clique, since I have no life outside the Internet.

Niether. Rottenjesus is regarded by most prequel fans at CHUD as a asshole, a idiot, a disgrace to their cause,and go out of their way to dissassociate themselves from him.
BUt there has been so much stupidity on both sides of the prequels debate that both sides have a lot of assholes they would really rather be without.

RJ is the Andy Kaufman of Star Wars prequels stuff.

More issues than a newsstand.

BOOM.

Story Emphasis on the 3-D computer graphics.

I came upon a realization over the last few months: my love for anything Star Wars-related has faded since the release of SITH. Even my love for the old trilogy is reaching the lowest of lows. I've accepted the entire franchise as mere entertainment, but viewing things generously through film-centric visors, I come away with a lack of satisfaction. Maybe my love will be renewed in the future with the inevitable HD DVD package, but even then, it's all about technological bravura.

I'm looking forward to this TV series, but the fact that it's 3D animation has me a bit worried. Would be nice to see how they're visualizing the human characters ...

My guess is that we are going to get a lot Jedi with hoods up and clone troopers with helmets on.

Jedis with hoods up (and the cloak attached to said hood) would require some serious cloth simulation. Really time consuming stuff. Check out the BTS stuff on The Incredibles disc to see some pretty in-depth stuff about it.

Really surprised that they're going 3D with this. I would've figured to use 3D modeled environments & vehicles, with 2D animation, something along the lines of Futurama. It's going to be really expensive to make it look good in complete 3D animation. Say what you will about Lucas, but you know it's going to be pretty to look at....

I figured that would be easier than hair.

In my head, this show looks like Episode III pre-vis shit.

Starship Troopers Roughnecks wasn't too bad looking, and that was almost a decade ago.

My sentiments exactly. I tried to watch EMPIRE the other day and it was exhausting getting through it. Didn't even finish it. I love STAR WARS, but I'm saturated and done with it for a long time.

If I hear from other viewers that this is quality, I may give it a try. But c'mon, how much serious drama can we get from this show when we all know how they end? This is just gonna be "Let's see how much stuff we can fit in this."

Well, it would be easier (to do cloth) if it's lifelike hair like in The Incredibles. But if they did the hair by modeling it, and then just painting textures to look like hair, it would be a much simpler & time saving way to go about it.

And I've seen some hair done in CG that way, and while there is a difference, it's not as bad as you would think. Especially if they make the characters stylized, and not photo real.

Anyone remember the cost per episode of that show Father of the Pride? That was done fully CG, and I remember it being pretty damn expensive to do.

Ah Rottenjesus. Phew, what a douche.

Not too keen on the 3D idea. Starship Troopers tried that and it looked cheap and rigid. Then again, if done lik The Incredibles, it might be something really cool.

Star Wars love still strong, still intact. Can't wait for the HD versions.