Does ANYBODY like Barry Bonds?

I'm not a fan, but I could give a shit what he does off the field. He's a better player than Aaron in my mind so I want him to break the record. I've watched his entire career and think it'd be a great cap to it.

As I am a: a filthy foreigner, and b: not a baseball watcher, my opinion is based solely on headlines that occasionally catch my eye. With this in mind I think he's the ultimate sporting anti-hero - a man who is pretty much the best at what he does, but who also goes out of his way to be a genuine c*nt to everyone.
Or maybe that's how people do things on the planet he lives on.

I think that when he hits the record breaking homer he'll do it with one hand on the bat, and the other one giving the finger to the crowd/cameras. Its not like he'd lose any more fans...

Do I like him? Not particularly, but I do find most of his comments to be amusing moreso than anything else. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if I have to listen to an athelete give me a guy like a Bonds, a Martinez or a TO.

If you don't want to be offended, if you want to hear nothing but clichés, go on over to the YES network and listen to one of Alex Rodriguez's sound bites and tell me that you prefer the latter.

Sure, I understand professionalism, but it's just bullshit these days, and players that bypass said bullshit are A-OK with me.

I'll give him this much. He never pretend to be somebody he's not, and he has huge balls(metaphorically, probably not so much physically anymore). If nothing else, I can respect that.

I believe Ken Caminiti's original figures on steroid use in the majors. So I think that for people to go crazy about the few guys who were smeared in the Balco mess is silly. Most people suspected something fishy a long time ago with a lot of players, but dismissed it because they enjoyed what the were seeing. To suddenly declare that these meatheads have ruined the game is hypocrisy. All they did was ruin the illusion.

BINGO!!

It does suck, however, that someone can do so well whilst cheating, and apparently there are no repurcussions whatsoever. That is a hell of an example to put out there. Don't worry about it kids, you can cheat all you like, and as long as no one finds out until a book is written, you'll still get to break your record and be a total jackass in public.

While I wish it weren't the case, athletes are role models, whether they like it or not. But I guess if you pay someone a gajillion dollars to play a damn game, you get the amazing world-crushing egos that we have in professional sports.

Hell, I bet if you ask enough people, they'll say that they don't like Aaron either, but now he is apparently the lesser of two buttholes.

LATER

I bet if Hank Aaron had the juice Bonds had, Bonds would only be 1/4 on the way to breaking Hank's record.

If he does break it, I still hope they do put an * next to his name.

Fuck him, it's not like he achieved through normal natural means.

My thoughts exactly. He's a good player and he's been one for years. But look at his rookie photo and today. Gee Barry thats not steriods. I don't want him to break Aaron's record. Hell i didn't want him to break Mcgwires single season HR record. He's the most arrogant prick in baseball today.

I like Bonds. It really doesnt matter to me that he treats the media like shit because they media is just out for themselves as well. They go out of their way sometimes to give a player shit. I do wish he could be a little more fan friendly though but even that I am skeptical of the media hates this guy so much I think they even exagerate how bad he is with that. So his personality has no bearing on whether i like him or not. He is just honest and doesnt suck up to people and doesnt worry what people think of him.

Now on to whether I want him to break the record. I want him to destroy it by at least 75-100 that way he might be able to silence the steroid thing a litte. Just think about this the steroids helped his batting avg more than his homerun totals. Through his career once he became great not counting his first year or 2 in the leauge he averaged about 30-35 homers a year. Since he has become a steroid user its about 50 counting the 73 year. So take maybe 50 HR's off his totals and he is still in low to mid 600's with a great chance to break the record if he remained healthy and even kept his old production. All the walks that he would not have gotten if he wasnt roiding cost him homers too but they extremely helped his batting avg more than anything else and hurt his career hits and RBI totals. What people need to remember before the steroid controversy this guy was an amazing outfielder is the only guy to ever have 500 HR and 500 steals so without the roids he still probably would have went down as one of the 2 or 3 best players ever.

All the Barry hate kind of baffles me I mean he seems to be a good dad he has his kids with him everywhere he goes and always speaks of them you never hear of him committing serious crime. Compared to some pro athletes who are doing crack raping women having illegitamate kids all over the country and in the extreme cases actually murdering people they are treated better than him all because he may refuse some autographs. He is a fucking saint compared to some of them.

Are steroids any different than lighter bats or scientifically determined diets? It's just another technology upgrade for the athlete.

If everyone is so worried about the records staying relevant, then don't allow anyone to use plastic cleats or hyperbaric chambers.

Steroids aren't automatically lethal, and the people taking them are adults. I don't see why, in this climate of 'win at all costs', steroids are the only performance enhancer not allowed. It seems like a pretty shallow claim at integrity to me. Barry saw that everyone else was cheating, and thought 'fuck it'. It's funny how only three ball players are getting public scrutiny, when we all have a good idea of who the other juicers are yet say nothing. Matsui? Beltran?

About Bonds, he hasn't exactly endeared himself to me, but after 15 years of the same damn questions every day, I know I would get pretty pissed at the press too. Unlike McGwire and Canseco, Bonds is clearly a top 10 player ever with or without the steroids.

This is just untrue players of Aaron's era had it way easier they didnt play night games long road trips 6 games in 7 nights. The biggest thing though is they never really faced relief pitchers it wasnt an issue in the game of yesteryear. The few times they did face relief pitchers the guys the faced were the shits and thats why they were relievers. Todays game is tougher that way with closers relief specialists. Also if roids were available to Aaron he probably would have done them.

This a perfect example you dont like the guys personality so you deny his greatness.

You guys know that there ALWAYS drugs in baseball, right? Trays of uppers and pills in the locker room, coke between innings, shit like that. They may not have added muscle but they enhanced performance, or helped ignore injury.

Steroids are everywhere. The bottom line is entertainment. Barry provides it.

I never said he was bad I just said he doesnt suck ass to the media or to fans. Why should he have to anyways. Thats his perogative I am sure everyone here would be wonderful to the fans if they were calling you juice head for the past 5 years. I know I wouldnt as long as he doesnt punch fans out he can do whatever the hell he wants where is it written ya have to be signing autographs and kissing babies to be a good guy.

From the mouth of Bonds
But steroids/HGH allow you to recover quicker, work out more, and hit the ball farther. And what a silly statement to say "I don't know what cheating is." You don't say that unless you were using.

First off Aaron was better. Bonds was a loser in the postseason untill he started juicing and he never won anything. Plus Aaron played in a era with better pitchers and bigger parks. The man was a caree .305 hitter and led the league in hitting twice. Bonds didn't lead the league in hitting untill the cream.

Second, what's the differance between Sosa and Bonds other than the corked bat in the last 5 years? Sure Bonds was a very good ball player before he juiced, but became the epic player after. If it wasn't for the creams he was taking he wouldn't be close to Aaron's record and just might be out of baseball.

Wasnt an epic player before the cream. Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm 3 MVP's is pretty good only 400 and 400 member numurous gold gloves. The pitching was bettter give me a break the numbers look better I will agree to me thats would more say shittier hitters. Have you ever watched an old game on TV Anya besides for a few guys hardly any of them even threw 90. Aaron never had to face a relief pitcher half as much as I said before. Not only that he faced guys in the 8th and 9th who were on 150 pitches its alot easier. Ways to cheat in baseball have been going on for years and shit some off them are in the Hall (Gaylord Perry anyone). Your post season example holds no weight either when Bonds sucked in the playoffs with pitchers he was fairly young people do handle those situations better with age. Along with as Nick said earlier uppers coke and stuff of that ilk have been going on for years. It is impossible to compare eras anyways there is no sense of trying but to say Aaron was way better than Bonds is wrong hell Aaron wasnt even the best of his generation Mays was better than him.

1. Bonds was/is an amazing player (steroids or not, like Wease said)

2. Do I "like Barry Bonds?" Not particularly, but then, there are not many athletes I do like. I still appreciate his skills, and I don't care all that much about how players handle the media... although I do tend to care a little more about how players handle the fans.

3. Cheating is cheating. Cheating is wrong. None of this changes just because "lots of other people are doing it."

4. I'm less worried about overall records being marred by cheating as I am about current (and future) non-cheating players being hurt because they actually have some integrity and honor and play fair. So, I don't care so much about technology changes or what happened in the past with other drugs, I want a fair game NOW!

Your point of clean players being tainted is correct KugFu I totally agree with you there.

From Nick:

The difference in athletic performance achieved by using steroids and human growth hormone is enormous. The use of uppers (including cocaine) is far more negligible.

I agree with Anya, Overlord and the other Barry critics.

If he had an ounce of humility he might have been forgiven but he doesn't and he's going to pay a price for it.

Regardless of my personal feeling towards steroid use and cheating, for me it comes down to the fact that Bonds is an asshole, pure and simple.

Great player, cheater, good father, etc. Fine. You can be all those things, but his demeanor on and off the field equates to asshole.

His quotes yesterday further the point, in my mind.

So Nick, if you pick after me in Fantasy this year, don't worry about me taking Bonds. He's all yours, if you want him.

Barry Bonds is just another Pete Rose in the making. But Baseball is trying their hardest to protect him while he is playing because he brings interest to the game. Once he is out of Baseball for a few years I am sure there is going to be a ton of leaked information that may totally black list him.

And, I am sure his mother was a fan of his for some time.

...

The difference is that lighter bats and scientifically determined diets aren't lethal at all, and there's no way to ensure that steroids won't kill you 20 years before your time, even if it's not instant and automatic. It is a major health risk and no player should be forced to endanger themselves like that to compete. That's the whole point. That's why it's wrong. If steroids weren't dangerous, have a party and call it the "steroid era". That's fine; baseball's various eras already make it difficult to compare and contrast players from different generations. But steroids fuck up contemporary comparisons and records.

Don't forget! Sandpaper, corked bats, vaseline, KY Jelly, throwing games, cortisone, etc. There's ALWAYS been cheating in baseball...ways to attempt to get ahead. Exactly like Nick said, it's entertainment. If Bonds is the 'roid monster everyone seems to know he is, then he's just like scores of other athletes who used various methods to get ahead.

I've driven 3 hours to see Bonds play (down in Miami)...saw him hit homer #601. Loved it. I had to see him play before he retires. He's the greatest player of our generation, and one of the best of all-time. Enjoy it while you can. Who gives a shit what he does off the field. Do any of you know him? Does he insult you personally? Why does it matter? I've heard that Cal Ripken is one of the nicest ball players ever. So what. I don't know the man, and that fact does nothing to sway my opinion of him. Now if he were a Yankee....

And the worst thing is the people that go to the other extreme with him, suddenly him and Sammy Sosa are comparable? Barry Bonds had Three MVPs and Five Gold Gloves before Sammy Sosa even mattered. We all remember this, right? He was a perennial Top Five MVP candidate throughout the 1990's (sans '95, '98 and '99), was the most complete player in the sport, and was easily the most dominant player of his era before he even stepped out onto the field in 2001.

This is not some "very good" player who became great over the last four seasons, this is an All-Time Great who already had a Hall of Fame career locked up before any of this came up.

The way some people talk, you'd think Barry Bonds started playing baseball at age 37.

I totally agree with you Monk he was awesome before. Shit us Mets fans are brilliant. The way he is potrayed is total media bias. I mean this is a man who wasnt voted onto the all 90's team by the media and he won 3 MVP's in that decade. On a side note I watched his press conferance and man he still looks like a monster assuming he is off roids(he would have to be dumb not to be). I was quite surprised figured their would be at least a slight differance in his size and there wasnt at all. I just pray this isnt the year his age gets to him because you know all the haters will be saying thats the reason. When most likely he wasnt juicing last year while the whole BALCO thing was going on.

No he magically got alot better than he should have. Nobody is saying Barry wasn't HOF before HGH/steroids. How does someone go from Slugging Percentages of .585, .609, .617 to .688, .863, .799, .749, .812? The closest Barry got to a .700 SLG% was .677 in 1993. ALL players decline when they get older. Barry got better.

Those are temporary cheating methods and are caught with consequences. While cheating they aren't on the same level as the stuff Bonds, McGwire, and what Sosa used.

Those are temporary cheating methods and are caught with consequences. While cheating they aren't on the same level as the stuff Bonds, McGwire, and what Sosa used.[/QUOTE]


Yeah tell Gaylord Perry and Phil Neikro that scuffing and lubing the ball are temporary cheating methods they got into the hall by doing it. As far as Bonds numbers go not one person here who said they liked Bonds ever said he wasnt on steroids we just dont really give a shit. Also not to forget how good he was when he was just 190-195 pounds still hittin between 30-40 a year while stealing 30 bases and winning gold gloves.

Also all players dont decline when they get older most do but Paul Molitor lit it up in his late 30's. Another example Nolan Ryan 2 no hitters after 40. Some people are freaks whose to say Bonds still wouldnt be hittin 300 hittin 30-35 without the roids at this age. It has happened before. The man obvioulsy works his ass off to stay in unbeleivable shape he was tore up at this press conferance most 25 year olds would kill to look like that and I truly believe he is off roids now as he was last year in the middle of the investigation.

But he wasn't hitting 70

Which is it-he takes roids or he works his ass off to get where he is? We don't know if Bonds is off everything. Baseball only is doing urine tests which doesn't catch everything and the users are always ahead of the tests. But Barry already set up an excuse in his press conference saying his power came from his legs and he had 2 surgeries.

As for Molitor he did decline in some areas. He couldn't field anymore and he lost his speed. He could still hit but he also didn't get phenomenally better like Bonds did. He stayed at his same pace. And Ryan also stayed the same untill his eventual decline which was later than most but still happened.

But unlike Bonds these players didn't get better. And if not on HGH/roids Bonds could be a .300 hitter w/ 30 HR a year. If his body did quit on him and took a longer time to recover. But Barry did take drugs and his production skyrocketed.

Ummmmmmmmm Anya you do know right that when you take steroids you do still have to work out like a son of a bitch for the stuff to work. So to me thats still working hard because you still have to put the time in in the gym.

And Molitor was always the shits in the field and his numbers did get better he had more hits in his 30's than he did his 20's.

Possibly, but in a sport where nearly everyone is working out like a son of a bitch, the non users get
a little better with all their hard work, and users become monsters for theirs.

What an asinine rationalization.

I agree that Bonds belongs in the Hall for his pre-controversy numbers, but fuck him for juicing and for being a perennial dickhead.

I don't think anyone is arguing whether or not Bonds is on the short, short list of greatest players ever. Of course he is. But he's also chasing the most famous record in sports, and even juiced it's going to be close. Check out Aaron's stats, he hit 40 HRs when he was 39 and flat-out collapsed after that. It wasn't gradual, he hit a wall. So Bonds will have to be the oldest player to hit 40 HRs at least once, and if you judge by every other player in the history of baseball, every year after 39 is like Russian Roulette. If he hits the wall this year, he could still make it if he limps through another two or three seasons. But if his late-career numbers are the result of steroids, then this record would clearly not even be feasible without them.

That was Joe Niekro, you ass.

Nobody denigrates Knucksie in my presence and gets away with it. He was the shit.

LOL and who do you think taught Joe how to do it.

Well I guess most of us are gonna have to disagree on Bonds the question originally was does anyone like him and yes I do. Ya see I dont care that he isnt mister personality to the media fans or what not or even care if he does steroids.

Too many people try to put their own moral code on these guys in how you would act to fans media ect but you dont know what you would do until you are there. You hope you would be classy but who knows when you were hounded constantly if you would. I do know that if I was asked the same question for 5 years it would piss me off as well.

I will concede the fact that he should maybe be a little more fan friendly but fuck the media they are for the most part out for the sensational story no matter who it affects so why should any athlete really care about them.

On the steroid thing put yourself in Bonds shoes he is the best in the game then in 98 he sees Big Mac and Sammy going crazy with the homers. The media and fans then proceed to fall in love with them. Wouldnt you in your own mind be like fuck that I am doing what they do as well and try out that steroid shit do to pure compettiveness which all athletes have and need to reach their level.

Thats all I am saying and maybe I got swayed from my original arguement that alot of Bonds problems comes from the medias pure hatred towards him. How come they arent all over Gary Sheffield to the extreme they are Bonds when Shef himself admitted he used the same cream Barry used and also "didnt know it was steroids". Which in both cases I believe is utter bullshit I mean who puts things into their bodies they dont know what it is. Its just hardly a thing is said to Sheffield and Bonds is made out to be the anti-christ. Why because of the medias hatred towards him

Your mama.

Still feel that way, Nick?

I still like him as a player.


LOL thats if this report is even true. I dont believe he was using in 1998 he was still a tooth pick and his numbers didnt drastically go up til 2001. So I guess steroids take 2-3 years to work properly. Said it earlier on in this thread he was great before roids and greater after roids. Still in the top 10 ever in my opinion.

Are you serious?

The man's eyesight got better from the HGH and the right mixture allowed him to play.
He would have hit well over 40 w/out the injury. Then the next year he hit 49 then 73. What's this 2-3 years garbage? He got better right away.

He may have been great before the roids but there is no doubt he would have never attained 40 HR in a season without the HGH, pills, creams and cow steroids.

People who still defend this guy are idiots. No offense.

I defend the guy because he is by far the best player of the last 20-25 years steroids or not. True that year in 1999 he got hurt he would have had 40 easily however he did hit .262. Ok but look at his earlier numbers 1996 42 homers 1997 40 homers in 1998 37 homers hell the year he supposedly went on roids his numbers dropped. The guy hit 40 homers 3 times before this report claims he started steroids. 35 is not really that old for baseball you are pushing the age where you may start to decline but you are not there yet. Plenty of guys still hit alot of homers approaching their mid 30's hell manny had his best homer year as a 33 year old I guess he is juicin too. Anya I am not denying that Barry Bonds used steroids either I know he did he admitted as much well to takin them unknowingly (which I dont believe). I am just saying 1998 I highly doubt it. I think this report book whatever is just jumping on the roid bandwagon and trying to sensationalize everything to sell books

They are going off sworn depositions and grand jury testimony. He took in 1998.

Yeah jesus I just went over and read the article I just figured it was gonna be the same old Barry does roids stuff. Even I have to admit thats pretty damning and if even half of its true he could possibly be in alot of shit. That being said the guy was still awesome even before he took one roid and anyone to deny that is totally just going on their personal feelings for him.